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Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
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Posted - 2013.04.15 15:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair.
No it's not, not at all. I've generally respected your thoughts, but this is utter rubbish.
Because we expect what we paid for we should be punished by having our SP reset? This will result in a lawsuit just as quickly as denying the return of the AURUM itself. I hate all the QQ, I refuse to grind SP again,, crap that has been tossed around because what happened? Now there won't be a reset on commercial release, when that is exactly what is needed here.
Somehow you and all the people like you are trying to make honest customers (that expect the same honesty from CCP) the bad guys. CCP needs to reset everyone or no one. My preference is clear, but I'm not running around the forums QQ'ing that I won't play if they reset everybody's SP (like many, many people did).
Edit: The catastrophic clause? I think it's time to consider implementing it. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am rather serious about this, the terms of sale never included getting two (or however many you'd like since the number does for all intents and purposes simply does not exist) for the price of one purchase, it included a statement of insurance of purchase in the event of something catastrophic or intentional.
As I have stated before to sum up the entire scenario if you replace the Merc pack items with a golden AR, come commercial reset do you get a second Golden Gun or do you receive the same gun to replace the first one you had? Terms of Sale indicates the later not the former.
Also I said for those who want it. This gives the option for the consumer to keep what they have now or clean slate and be given everything back. Now is the opportune time to do so however before exploitative such as using corp armory is made available.
All it stated, clearly, and succinctly, was that there would be a refund of the merc pack every reset and upon commercial release, none of what you're trying to say about statement of insurance.
Let me state what I see it as owing players that purchased the merc pack when it included the statement.
1. I don't expect a second 'golden gun', one is fine. Therefore the dragonfly BPO suit we got with each merc pack would be removed and then refunded (or simply not removed and not refunded). This would also apply, in my mind, to the 30-day active SP booster. You still have the benefit of that in SP as there will be no SP reset.
2. The AUR was spent on the understanding it would be refunded on commercial release. Anyone attempting to argue that the purchase agreement didn't state this is being willfully ignorant. The pickle lies in the fact that many people spent some (or even all) on SP Boosters (whether active or passive) and that this in turn gives them more SP and the chance to earn even more when they potentially respend any refunded AUR on more SP boosters.
To this I say, so what? Everyone had the opportunity to buy those same boosters. A compromise I would accept, even though it is not what the purchase agreement stated, would be to remove SP gained from those items in conjunction with the AUR refund (but it would have to be optional). A partial refund option of AUR not spent on SP boosters or a full refund of AUR but a removal of any SP gained from boosters purchased from the AUR to be reset.
However, I imagine this would be impossible to implement. Therefore the only option that honors the purchase agreement is to let it go. Everyone had access to those same boosters. There is no unfair advantage to be gained here, except to argue that closed beta gave people access to half priced AURUM.
3. Items liked the fused locus grenades, HK4M shotguns, etc? These are comsumables; you lose them when you use them (meaning when you die with them equipped, obviously). Many people used them frivolously because of the expectation of their return on commercial release. I could care less about them, but the purchase agreement made it clear they would also be refunded on commercial release.
General Statement to the Masses: Ultimately, the problem here isn't the people that bought the closed beta merc packs and want the clause honored, it's the people QQ'ing that they didn't get in on it or of the perceived 'unfair advantage'. Is it going to ruin your game that someone has more AUR than you? If it is, you shouldn't be playing DUST in the first place--AUR is part of DUST. As to the items, read the whole post above. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Thus resetting the character WILL honor the clause.
Arguably. Would a court rule in favor of CCP if they took that approach? Nope, as they would be resetting the SP of only the people that bought the merc packs and asked for what they paid for. It would be viewed as punishing the consumer for daring to expect what they paid for.
Further, as stated, it is in no way a FAIR option as you attempted to argue. What needs to happen is that everyone should be reset but people would QQ and go play Mario Kart instead of DUST (or at least threaten to). This is not a viable option, and your arguing for it has lost a good deal of respect from me (not that I expect you to care).
CCP screwed the pooch and now the players are at each others throats. Typical. I even try to s[peak in terms of compromise and your stance is reset anyone foolish enough to expect what they paid for. I hate the entire legal process, but I would gladly spend my off hours in court if this is the 'solution'. I'm tired of corporations screwing over their paying customers and if CCP takes this approach that is exactly what they are doing.
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Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
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Posted - 2013.04.15 16:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others. And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE. Ryder is right Its the minority which want the AUR reset If you want AUR reset then reset everything for that person If they make it an option i wont mind, i will be in the majority which will keep what they have so far and not get an AUR refund
It doesn't matter if it is a minority or a majority. CCP either is, or is not, contractually obligated by the terms of the purchase agreement. The reason they haven't stepped up and cleared this whole mess up is because they are most likely working out the legal ramifications of options such as this, realize how it won't hold up in court to do so, and are trying to find a compromise (a clearly difficult task as all the forum warrior'ing shows).
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Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
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Posted - 2013.04.15 17:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it  ). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA.
CCP agreed to a purchase agreement that stated the merc pack would be refunded upon commercial release.. However, yes, they could delete anyone's character,.
EULAs attempt to argue you have no rights to any of the 'virtual' property, but plenty of EULA's have had clauses proven unenforceable and voidable in court. The entire virtual property concept is relatively new and its legal implications are still being determined. Would it hold up in court? The at times obnoxious thing about the legal system in many places today is that i the end result is not always what it could or should logically be, especially when dealing with such novel concepts as virtual property with real world value.
Regardless, the damage CCP would do to their image as a corporation that can be trusted and deserve to be supported would not be insignificant if they took the approach you suggest. They would be walking the same path as EA, now synonomous with bad customer service, horrible incomplete games, and screwing over their customer base.
Unlike EA, CCP has a solid reputation that they should and likely will seek to maintain. Deleting characters of paying customers simply for expecting what they paid for would do as much, if not more damage, than any court case. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing these points in the forums except CCP has shown they can sometimes consider all the QQ in these forums far too much and if more sane, less idiotic viewpoints aren't offered then all CCP sees is the idiocy many spew herein. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
251
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Posted - 2013.04.16 14:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
blue gt wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:[quote=Ryder Azorria]Putting any legal stuff aside for now, you seem to have conveniently skipped over the part where you you have no Moral right to demand a second, free, merc pack. Basically YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR - YOU PAID FOR A MERC PACK (or whatever) AND YOU GOT A MERC PACK, UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING TO REMOVE SAID MERC PACK, YOU SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER. Caps lock used in an attempt to make it sink in, but alas, some people are simply immune to logic. oh god now youve done it brought morality and ethics into it, but it is a good point, it is ethically unsound far more so then CCP not refunding the packs on release, in fact one could say it would be more unethical for CCP to refund the packs then to not, as they would be giving a advantage to closed beta testers over open beta testers.
The fact that some of you actually believe consumers have no moral right to what they paid for is unbelievable. We paid for a merc pack that would be refunded on every reset AND commercial release. Simple. But clearly you don't get that.
I'm no longer going to try to convince you how wrong you are. Your view of reality is clearly far too gone for any words to change it. Again, CCP screwed up here, but that's not the fault of the players who bought the packs. This CCP White Knight Syndrome is ridiculous. You're beginning to sound like fanatics (the root word of fan interestingly).
As far as logic goes, try sitting on the ground and observing the sun and how the earth moves in relation to it. Your observations would make it appear the sun is moving around the earth, not the other way around. It's called a logical fallacy, much like your so-called logic here, except I'll call it what it really is, logic fail. But you are right, though. Some people are indeed immume to logic and common sense. Thanks for proving both.
P.S.
Yeah, the troll in me came back and had to respond. Meh. |
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