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Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1992
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Given how often we have had this debate, and after careful thinking this over for the past week or so, I think it is best to give players the option to have a refund via an in-game message box on day of release. None of the SP is reset regardless of choice and those who just feel like contributing to Dust's development (like me) will probably elect to reject the refund while those who want the "commercial release" obligation to be met will get what they paid for. This option should only effect merc packs purchased before open beta and possibly from Gamestop assuming CCP can track those kind of transactions separately.
My statement is based on the literal interpretation of the merc pack description as written before open beta came along and the fact that the wording of said description treats "resets" and "commercial release" as two separate things. Nowhere in the description did/does it mention that commercial release will include a reset on that same day. CCP has also clearly stated that there are no more resets coming barring anything catastrophic. For those claiming that giving a refund while keeping the SP and stuff is catastrophic, the people making such claims don't have the metrics (data accessible only to CCP devs) to back it up and only CCP can make the final decision on that matter.
Although a full reset is out of the question, I want to make it clear that CCP has left the door open for the possibility of a partial reset (or SP cut) for those who acquired SP via boosters. However, keep in mind that this claim is coming only from the players and that CCP made no mention of such a thing happening either. In fact, CCP has been quiet about the whole thing for the past 4 months straight.
EDIT:
Reminder: I sent an email to CCP earlier letting them know that Gamestop is selling the merc packs with the outdated description that includes the "commercial release" clause. CCP said they are trying to address this. Since it's against forum rules to post a copy of the email here, you only have my word on this. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3421
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair. |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1992
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair.
Only when the data CCP has says they should. |
JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
314
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1992
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level.
If you are talking about a full reset, read my OP again. CCP said that full resets are out of the question barring anything catastrophic.
If you are talking about a partial reset, that is still possible but highly unlikely given that CCP didn't mention that possibility. At least not directly. |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
197
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others.
And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair.
No it's not, not at all. I've generally respected your thoughts, but this is utter rubbish.
Because we expect what we paid for we should be punished by having our SP reset? This will result in a lawsuit just as quickly as denying the return of the AURUM itself. I hate all the QQ, I refuse to grind SP again,, crap that has been tossed around because what happened? Now there won't be a reset on commercial release, when that is exactly what is needed here.
Somehow you and all the people like you are trying to make honest customers (that expect the same honesty from CCP) the bad guys. CCP needs to reset everyone or no one. My preference is clear, but I'm not running around the forums QQ'ing that I won't play if they reset everybody's SP (like many, many people did).
Edit: The catastrophic clause? I think it's time to consider implementing it. |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1992
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others. And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE.
Please keep flaming to a minimum. I don't want this thread to go out of control and I don't want to be forced to ask CCP to lock this thread. |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1992
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
I just want to make this clear to anyone who missed it.
Maken Tosch wrote:description treats "resets" and "commercial release" as two separate things
I'm not claiming to be an internet lawyer here as that is just silly. But this is just common sense I'm pointing out here because it seems people here keep thinking that a reset will happen if the commercial release obligation is met. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star. EoN.
951
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 15:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair.
Honestly I don't want an effing refund. I want to keep my SP. TYVM!
#justsaying |
|
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3421
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair. No it's not, not at all. I've generally respected your thoughts, but this is utter rubbish. Because we expect what we paid for we should be punished by having our SP reset? This will result in a lawsuit just as quickly as denying the return of the AURUM itself. I hate all the QQ, I refuse to grind SP again,, crap that has been tossed around because what happened? Now there won't be a reset on commercial release, when that is exactly what is needed here. Somehow you and all the people like you are trying to make honest customers (that expect the same honesty from CCP) the bad guys. CCP needs to reset everyone or no one. My preference is clear, but I'm not running around the forums QQ'ing that I won't play if they reset everybody's SP (like many, many people did). Edit: The catastrophic clause? I think it's time to consider implementing it.
I am rather serious about this, the terms of sale never included getting two (or however many you'd like since the number does for all intents and purposes simply does not exist) for the price of one purchase, it included a statement of insurance of purchase in the event of something catastrophic or intentional.
As I have stated before to sum up the entire scenario if you replace the Merc pack items with a Golden Assault Rifle, come commercial reset do you get a second Golden Gun or do you receive the same gun to replace the first one you had? Terms of Sale indicates the later not the former.
By giving players who have bought the merc pack all the same items again without resetting would turn the game into a pay to play experience scenario fiasco just as bad as the most recent Planetside 2's multiple thousand certificate point issuing as there are now players with over 160,000 cert points running around because of wed's patch.
Also I said for those who want it. This gives the option for the consumer to keep what they have now or clean slate and be given everything back. Now is the opportune time to do so however before exploitative such as using corp armory is made available. Its a fair option, its a level option, and its the best compromise, reset the volunteer characters to day 1 then reissue all awards earned and purchased. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
504
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair.
True way to be fair my foot. Really this whole complicitness in being fair junk is utter nonsense. How bout CCP gives us the stuff as a reward for investing in them or for putting up with their failures not a game developer but as a corporation to manage their company effectively and putting up with it.
Why do people who talk about this like we are greedy and use its a beta mentality to justify every bit of noob sauce fail that this fiasco created. I really dont have time to argue this over and over and over again.
CCP manage your corporation better or just stop making games... this is a pr, legal, community management failure for letting this issue stagnate not a dev one so my issue is perfectly valid and at this point its about customer service Iron Wolf you may think people should just grin and bear it and thats why corporations continue down this path because the consumer lets them...
Man my parents' generation is right we dont know how to fight for our rights and properly protest. Go ahead iron Wolf risk another a Jita situation. Please oh please help us all if you are on CPM because if this is the kind of placating we can expect from you or others that think this way on CPM this games future is going to look bleak.
Sorry but i dont just grin and bear it i hold people to high standards. If i didn't think CCP could meet or even exceed them i wouldnt even bother being here. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am rather serious about this, the terms of sale never included getting two (or however many you'd like since the number does for all intents and purposes simply does not exist) for the price of one purchase, it included a statement of insurance of purchase in the event of something catastrophic or intentional.
As I have stated before to sum up the entire scenario if you replace the Merc pack items with a golden AR, come commercial reset do you get a second Golden Gun or do you receive the same gun to replace the first one you had? Terms of Sale indicates the later not the former.
Also I said for those who want it. This gives the option for the consumer to keep what they have now or clean slate and be given everything back. Now is the opportune time to do so however before exploitative such as using corp armory is made available.
All it stated, clearly, and succinctly, was that there would be a refund of the merc pack every reset and upon commercial release, none of what you're trying to say about statement of insurance.
Let me state what I see it as owing players that purchased the merc pack when it included the statement.
1. I don't expect a second 'golden gun', one is fine. Therefore the dragonfly BPO suit we got with each merc pack would be removed and then refunded (or simply not removed and not refunded). This would also apply, in my mind, to the 30-day active SP booster. You still have the benefit of that in SP as there will be no SP reset.
2. The AUR was spent on the understanding it would be refunded on commercial release. Anyone attempting to argue that the purchase agreement didn't state this is being willfully ignorant. The pickle lies in the fact that many people spent some (or even all) on SP Boosters (whether active or passive) and that this in turn gives them more SP and the chance to earn even more when they potentially respend any refunded AUR on more SP boosters.
To this I say, so what? Everyone had the opportunity to buy those same boosters. A compromise I would accept, even though it is not what the purchase agreement stated, would be to remove SP gained from those items in conjunction with the AUR refund (but it would have to be optional). A partial refund option of AUR not spent on SP boosters or a full refund of AUR but a removal of any SP gained from boosters purchased from the AUR to be reset.
However, I imagine this would be impossible to implement. Therefore the only option that honors the purchase agreement is to let it go. Everyone had access to those same boosters. There is no unfair advantage to be gained here, except to argue that closed beta gave people access to half priced AURUM.
3. Items liked the fused locus grenades, HK4M shotguns, etc? These are comsumables; you lose them when you use them (meaning when you die with them equipped, obviously). Many people used them frivolously because of the expectation of their return on commercial release. I could care less about them, but the purchase agreement made it clear they would also be refunded on commercial release.
General Statement to the Masses: Ultimately, the problem here isn't the people that bought the closed beta merc packs and want the clause honored, it's the people QQ'ing that they didn't get in on it or of the perceived 'unfair advantage'. Is it going to ruin your game that someone has more AUR than you? If it is, you shouldn't be playing DUST in the first place--AUR is part of DUST. As to the items, read the whole post above. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3423
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thus resetting the character WILL honor the clause. |
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort
The Lions Guard
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
this is quite a popular thing to ***** about.
did CCP screw over a group of people, or is said group a bunch of greedy basterds? |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Thus resetting the character WILL honor the clause.
Arguably. Would a court rule in favor of CCP if they took that approach? Nope, as they would be resetting the SP of only the people that bought the merc packs and asked for what they paid for. It would be viewed as punishing the consumer for daring to expect what they paid for.
Further, as stated, it is in no way a FAIR option as you attempted to argue. What needs to happen is that everyone should be reset but people would QQ and go play Mario Kart instead of DUST (or at least threaten to). This is not a viable option, and your arguing for it has lost a good deal of respect from me (not that I expect you to care).
CCP screwed the pooch and now the players are at each others throats. Typical. I even try to s[peak in terms of compromise and your stance is reset anyone foolish enough to expect what they paid for. I hate the entire legal process, but I would gladly spend my off hours in court if this is the 'solution'. I'm tired of corporations screwing over their paying customers and if CCP takes this approach that is exactly what they are doing.
|
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
504
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Thus resetting the character WILL honor the clause.
If they said this and made it crystal clear in january. They didnt they still continued to wait and wait and wait with no response.
This by the way has less to do with me im on the forums but every new player that buys a merc pack from gamestop from today until commercial release.
At this point is just bad customer relations and they know it. Why do you think we still have silence. They have pegged themselves into a corner. They boned up smart move is to do the refund for merc pack users AND SINGLE MERC PACK BONUS TO ALL TESTERS AS A MEA CULPA.
If you're telling me that puts CCP in a bad financial position then ill just pack up and leave now because if they are that hard pressed for money to not be able to absorb that cost then how in the kitten are they ever going to dev this game on a 10 year roadmap? |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
219
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others. And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE.
Ryder is right
Its the minority which want the AUR reset
If you want AUR reset then reset everything for that person
If they make it an option i wont mind, i will be in the majority which will keep what they have so far and not get an AUR refund |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others. And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE. Ryder is right Its the minority which want the AUR reset If you want AUR reset then reset everything for that person If they make it an option i wont mind, i will be in the majority which will keep what they have so far and not get an AUR refund
It doesn't matter if it is a minority or a majority. CCP either is, or is not, contractually obligated by the terms of the purchase agreement. The reason they haven't stepped up and cleared this whole mess up is because they are most likely working out the legal ramifications of options such as this, realize how it won't hold up in court to do so, and are trying to find a compromise (a clearly difficult task as all the forum warrior'ing shows).
|
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Thus resetting the character WILL honor the clause. Arguably. Would a court rule in favor of CCP if they took that approach? Nope, as they would be resetting the SP of only the people that bought the merc packs and asked for what they paid for. It would be viewed as punishing the consumer for daring to expect what they paid for. Further, as stated, it is in no way a FAIR option as you attempted to argue. What needs to happen is that everyone should be reset but people would QQ and go play Mario Kart instead of DUST (or at least threaten to). This is not a viable option, and your arguing for it has lost a good deal of respect from me (not that I expect you to care). CCP screwed the pooch and now the players are at each others throats. Typical. I even try to s[peak in terms of compromise and your stance is reset anyone foolish enough to expect what they paid for. I hate the entire legal process, but I would gladly spend my off hours in court if this is the 'solution'. I'm tired of corporations screwing over their paying customers and if CCP takes this approach that is exactly what they are doing. 1: Your first para is total BS, for two reasons. Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it ). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA.
2: If you want to spend hours in court arguing of $20 of virtual stuff, I really hope you live in England, because of EULA (again).
3: Resetting the accounts of people who don't give a damn about your virtual stuff is the opposite of fair, as is giving you the advantage said stuff gives you for free. The only fair way to give you your second batch of stuff is to remove the benefit given by the first. Deal with it. |
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
219
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others. And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE. Ryder is right Its the minority which want the AUR reset If you want AUR reset then reset everything for that person If they make it an option i wont mind, i will be in the majority which will keep what they have so far and not get an AUR refund It doesn't matter if it is a minority or a majority. CCP either is, or is not, contractually obligated by the terms of the purchase agreement. The reason they haven't stepped up and cleared this whole mess up is because they are most likely working out the legal ramifications of options such as this, realize how it won't hold up in court to do so, and are trying to find a compromise (a clearly difficult task as all the forum warrior'ing shows).
They could swap whats in the merc packs for 100 golden dildos if they wished and we couldnt do a thing about it
The best option is to let them either a) take the AUR but everything they had gets refunded or b) carry on as normal |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
63
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Thus resetting the character WILL honor the clause. Arguably. Would a court rule in favor of CCP if they took that approach? Nope, as they would be resetting the SP of only the people that bought the merc packs and asked for what they paid for. It would be viewed as punishing the consumer for daring to expect what they paid for. Further, as stated, it is in no way a FAIR option as you attempted to argue. What needs to happen is that everyone should be reset but people would QQ and go play Mario Kart instead of DUST (or at least threaten to). This is not a viable option, and your arguing for it has lost a good deal of respect from me (not that I expect you to care). CCP screwed the pooch and now the players are at each others throats. Typical. I even try to s[peak in terms of compromise and your stance is reset anyone foolish enough to expect what they paid for. I hate the entire legal process, but I would gladly spend my off hours in court if this is the 'solution'. I'm tired of corporations screwing over their paying customers and if CCP takes this approach that is exactly what they are doing.
If you're going to internet lawyer, you might want to note that you legally agreed not to take CCP to court. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
241
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it ). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA.
CCP agreed to a purchase agreement that stated the merc pack would be refunded upon commercial release.. However, yes, they could delete anyone's character,.
EULAs attempt to argue you have no rights to any of the 'virtual' property, but plenty of EULA's have had clauses proven unenforceable and voidable in court. The entire virtual property concept is relatively new and its legal implications are still being determined. Would it hold up in court? The at times obnoxious thing about the legal system in many places today is that i the end result is not always what it could or should logically be, especially when dealing with such novel concepts as virtual property with real world value.
Regardless, the damage CCP would do to their image as a corporation that can be trusted and deserve to be supported would not be insignificant if they took the approach you suggest. They would be walking the same path as EA, now synonomous with bad customer service, horrible incomplete games, and screwing over their customer base.
Unlike EA, CCP has a solid reputation that they should and likely will seek to maintain. Deleting characters of paying customers simply for expecting what they paid for would do as much, if not more damage, than any court case. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing these points in the forums except CCP has shown they can sometimes consider all the QQ in these forums far too much and if more sane, less idiotic viewpoints aren't offered then all CCP sees is the idiocy many spew herein. |
Rynoceros
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
If you bought anything at GameStop, you deserve nothing.
What you need is a map, a clue, and the internet. |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
199
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 17:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it ). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA. CCP agreed to a purchase agreement that stated the merc pack would be refunded upon commercial release.. However, yes, they could delete anyone's character,. EULAs attempt to argue you have no rights to any of the 'virtual' property, but plenty of EULA's have had clauses proven unenforceable and voidable in court. The entire virtual property concept is relatively new and its legal implications are still being determined. Would it hold up in court? The at times obnoxious thing about the legal system in many places today is that i the end result is not always what it could or should logically be, especially when dealing with such novel concepts as virtual property with real world value. Regardless, the damage CCP would do to their image as a corporation that can be trusted and deserve to be supported would not be insignificant if they took the approach you suggest. They would be walking the same path as EA, now synonomous with bad customer service, horrible incomplete games, and screwing over their customer base. Unlike EA, CCP has a solid reputation that they should and likely will seek to maintain. Deleting characters of paying customers simply for expecting what they paid for would do as much, if not more damage, than any court case. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing these points in the forums except CCP has shown they can sometimes consider all the QQ in these forums far too much and if more sane, less idiotic viewpoints aren't offered then all CCP sees is the idiocy many spew herein. Putting any legal stuff aside for now, you seem to have conveniently skipped over the part where you you have no Moral right to demand a second, free, merc pack. Basically YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR - YOU PAID FOR A MERC PACK (or whatever) AND YOU GOT A MERC PACK, UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING TO REMOVE SAID MERC PACK, YOU SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER. Caps lock used in an attempt to make it sink in, but alas, some people are simply immune to logic. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1128
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 19:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:JL3Eleven wrote:If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others. And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE.
It's not "free stuff" if you paid $20 for it. How is this difficult to understand?
I bought a Merc Pack under the specific agreement that I would get all that stuff back at Commercial Release. That's WHAT WE PAID FOR.
Requiring a reset to actually get the stuff you bought is akin to RANSOM. "Yeah, you've already paid for this... but if you actually want to receive it, you have to take a reset". How is that in any way "fair", and how specifically, is it "unfair" to get the rest of the stuff we paid for in the Merc Pack? Who is it "unfair" for? Other players? If that's the case, take it up with CCP, they are the ones that SOLD the thing, we just BOUGHT it. Don't punish the people who bought Merc Packs just because you think CCP sold an "unfair" items, that's ridiculous.
Anyhow, it doesn't matter, looks like CCP agrees with... well, themselves. They have stated that they have a reimbursement program that they will reveal at a later date, I assume they intend to honor the "or items of equal value" part of the agreement. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1128
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 19:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Illuminaughty-696 wrote:Ryder Azorria wrote:Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it ). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA. CCP agreed to a purchase agreement that stated the merc pack would be refunded upon commercial release.. However, yes, they could delete anyone's character,. EULAs attempt to argue you have no rights to any of the 'virtual' property, but plenty of EULA's have had clauses proven unenforceable and voidable in court. The entire virtual property concept is relatively new and its legal implications are still being determined. Would it hold up in court? The at times obnoxious thing about the legal system in many places today is that i the end result is not always what it could or should logically be, especially when dealing with such novel concepts as virtual property with real world value. Regardless, the damage CCP would do to their image as a corporation that can be trusted and deserve to be supported would not be insignificant if they took the approach you suggest. They would be walking the same path as EA, now synonomous with bad customer service, horrible incomplete games, and screwing over their customer base. Unlike EA, CCP has a solid reputation that they should and likely will seek to maintain. Deleting characters of paying customers simply for expecting what they paid for would do as much, if not more damage, than any court case. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing these points in the forums except CCP has shown they can sometimes consider all the QQ in these forums far too much and if more sane, less idiotic viewpoints aren't offered then all CCP sees is the idiocy many spew herein. Putting any legal stuff aside for now, you seem to have conveniently skipped over the part where you you have no Moral right to demand a second, free, merc pack. Basically YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR - YOU PAID FOR A MERC PACK (or whatever) AND YOU GOT A MERC PACK, UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING TO REMOVE SAID MERC PACK, YOU SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER. Caps lock used in an attempt to make it sink in, but alas, some people are simply immune to logic.
It's not a "ANOTHER merc pack" it's all part of the one they sold. We still haven't received all of the items sold in the merc pack, because the rest of it comes at commercial release. |
Plastic-Jesus
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1
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Posted - 2013.04.15 23:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:[quote=Ryder Azorria][quote=JL3Eleven]
I bought a Merc Pack under the specific agreement that I would get all that stuff back at Commercial Release. That's WHAT WE PAID FOR.
With the assumption that there would be a reset at Commercial Release.
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HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2363
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Posted - 2013.04.15 23:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair.
So those who purchased it get reset and are behind the sp curve? The ones who supported the game in beta?
That doesn't seem like a reasonable solution. Its just saying the opposite of what some are saying, that want a full refund and keep their SP. And truthfully this is what they most likely will have to do or reset everybody. Their can't be a punishment to a group that want their contract with merc pack to be upheld. Its all or none. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1130
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Posted - 2013.04.15 23:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Plastic-Jesus wrote:Baal Roo wrote:[quote=Ryder Azorria][quote=JL3Eleven]
I bought a Merc Pack under the specific agreement that I would get all that stuff back at Commercial Release. That's WHAT WE PAID FOR. With the assumption that there would be a reset at Commercial Release.
I made no such assumption, don't punish me for CCP's mistakes. |
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