faster

Aurum. Nothing wrong with this. But boosters give users a bigger return on their games, SP wise, Which in the long run it pay to win becuase better gear is affordable faster. Better gear = wins.

Boosters will be available on the market for ISK. So no,this game is not P2W.

Boosters will be available on the market for ISK. So no,this game is not P2W.

Pay to win generally refers to games where you can access certain gear/items/skills/etc only through paying real money. Dust just allows you to speed up the leveling/gearing process. It's mostly just a convenience thing, everything can be obtained through just playing the game.

Some have pointed out that there are a couple of items that cost aurum that have lower CPU/PG costs, but hopefully that gets adjusted. And in any case, it's not really game breaking anyway.

yeah riiight

i just wait to see what CCP is going to do in the final version , if there are gona be any filters to eliminate AUR and Kb/M from matches

if not ill delete the characters and delete this FREE TO PAY TO WIN game

yeah someone that uses Kb/M AND AUR stuff is not game breaking

have fun playing against same few people using Kb/M and AUR stuff because that is the future of Dust514

Right now are they. No. so it is pay to win.

There is no aurum item that gives a DEFINITE advantage over some one who pays with isk. I have not put a single penny into this game and I have no problem with being competitive with the people who use boosters or use a "get it faster item". The skill cap balances out the people who use boosters, the aurum weapons are the same weapons as the higher tier one, you just get them faster. The game isn't pay to win.

Skipper Jones pretty much hit the nail straight on the head.

So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins?

And yet the fact that the market is coming, and when it gets here all these AUR items will be available for ISK seems completely irrelevant to everyone.

So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins?

And yet the fact that the market is coming, and when it gets here all these AUR items will be available for ISK seems completely irrelevant to everyone.


"Kitted out AUR gear" meaning one level above the militia gear right? So type-1 Assault, Blindfire Rifle and advanced mods without any bonuses you would get from the skills?

Aurum. Nothing wrong with this. But boosters give users a bigger return on their games, SP wise, Which in the long run is pay to win becuase better gear is affordable faster. Better gear = wins.

1 level above is still an advantage

Everyone is so mean here.

Stop giving these bullshit answers like "you get it faster, that's not pay to win" or "aurum doesn't buy a better gun"

The truth is that players that have boosters will ALWAYS have an advantage over players without boosters. HOWEVER, players with a lot of skill points will ALWAYS have an advantage over players with less.

This is the reality of this game, and people need to accept it.

As one of the so called "proto fags", I can say that most of my kills come from militia suits, and not from other players my skill level.

The other reality is that anyone can kill anyone if they're using the right tool. Even the distinct advantage from more skill points can be countered with the right suit fitting.

Edit: i didnt reasearch on this, but it does turn out its not even coming this patch... [bummer] So player market isn't coming any time soon (Dust 514 is Pay to Win?)

Aurum. Nothing wrong with this. But boosters give users a bigger return on their games, SP wise, Which in the long run is pay to win becuase better gear is affordable faster. Better gear = wins.

"The free-to-play Mercs are being exploited by the Paying Mercs"

-Karl Marx

So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins?

You

clearly

don-¦t

play

EVE.

No ammount of SP will solve stupidity and lack of skill.

No i dont. Stupidity that can be judged by yourself. Skill, if you have never played with me move along i would sit you

If you saw the examples, you would see that it refutes your initial argument, for the logic is the same. Better gear, better SP, doesn-¦t replace skill. Take a maxed SP char and put it in the hands of a new player, and a veteran with milita will probably win.

And in case you have as much skill as you-¦re saying, you-¦re not going to have any problem with unskilled but piimped players.

It was not an ad hominem, and not an offense to you, so just chill and save it for somebody else.

aurum helps you get ahead, but once you max out a skill set you max out a skill set.

I have yet to pay a dime, I do fairly well and enjoy the game very much, did I mention that I have yet to pay a dime? If I'm not paying then what right do I have to complain if other people get faster access to better gear?

I have yet to pay a dime, I do fairly well and enjoy the game very much, did I mention that I have yet to pay a dime? If I'm not paying then what right do I have to complain if other people get faster access to better gear?

Some people just can't comprehend this. It's a fact.

Maxing out takes a **** load of time without boosters

Maxing out takes a **** load of time without boosters

Going to another country by plane is a lot faster, and yet, some people use boats.

Your point ?

So your argument is "I don't want to pay for quicker maxing out but I'm lazy to actually play game the regular way so this is pay to win game wah wah"? League of Legends has been doing this for years and not a single player claimed it is pay to win. Once you are maxed you are maxed and you are competitive on both ISK and AUR ground equally. Stop beating this horse please.

boats arnt free

Once you are maxed you are maxed and you are competitive on both ISK and AUR ground equally. Stop beating this horse please.

You are competitive even while you-¦re NOT maxed out, just to remember. Personal Skill > Equip / SP

across water, jesus

Since you clearly don-¦t check the references and isn-¦t interested/able to make an effort to comprehend what is being said, so then you can refute the argumentation, have fun with the game, and if you don-¦t, the door is that direction.

----------->

To follow your logic to it's conclusion ..... if you don't pay a dime what right do you have to get into a conversation with those who are paying?

When you have AUR items that outperform it's ISK variants, it's P2W.

Because nothings stopping me

I suppose you could say nothings stopping him from complaining, but that doesn't mean CCP has to change their business model just for him.

If you don't like it don't play, this is how free games work and no one is forcing you to pay or play for that matter.

Using only part of the quote makes you seem intellectually uncourageous, the game is what it is and imho people need to whine less about who is paying for an advantage. NEWS FLASH that is how the world works, get over it and find a way to get the best advantage for yourself!

One of the stupidest things i've read right there. thanks for the laugh.

Ccp 'not p2w'
Op 'it is p2w'
You 'it is p2w but gtfo if you don't like it'

Hahahahahaha you kitten

Im on 4mil Sp, someone who would have played around the same time as me with boosters could have up to 6 mil, how can i compete with that.

When you have AUR items that outperform it's ISK variants, it's P2W.

(australian, our merc packs cost more than everyones else's)

One of the stupidest things i've read right there. thanks for the laugh.

Ccp 'not p2w'
Op 'it is p2w'
You 'it is p2w but gtfo if you don't like it'

Hahahahahaha you kitten

Look, if it was up to me, they never would have introduced keyboard support. That being said, there isn't much they can do about that now, and it doesn't really seem to be that much of an advantage anyway.

As for aurum items. They're necessary because this game needs to make money in order to continue. They are merely a convenience. It might take a little longer to get the ISK version of the same item, but that doesn't bother me.

So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins?

Pay to win = buying an unassailable advantage that you can only get through paying with real money. For example, in SW:TOR, if you're a subscriber, you get full access to the game. If you don't pay monthly, then you can play 3 PVP matches a week, tops, and get less rewards for your time.

That's unassailable, due to the gear you can get through those PvP matches. However, in DUST, a protobear can be killed by some random in a militia suit. Teamwork is OP, gear is not. Tactics are also OP... That's why, in warfare, you never see two sides just charging at another. Except for that really horrid time between 1700 AD to 1914 AD, where two sides literally stood opposite each other and shot at each other.

In my experience, those who use Aurum die just as well as those who don't. Victory is not assured by the equipment of a team, but by the tactics and teamwork that they use.

Imho questions like "is Dust p2w?" can't be answered until the game comes out. It is a bit like trotting in place. You are getting all fired up but actually going nowhere. There are still many features being developed that have to yet be implemented, including Planetary conquest (which comes next build), semi random map generation based on heightmaps from planets in eve (it was said, that this is the way maps will be generated, right? might be wrong though), Pve modes, Player market and so on and so forth. Once they say "we are out of beta" it should be of more use to argue over P2W or not P2W. . .

SP boosters and universal communicator, I don't have a problem with. Why?
1 - Universal commo - Yes, CCP has to make some money. No biggie

2 - SP boosters - Systems are in place to match you (mostly) against players with similar total SPs. I don't gripe about getting pasted when I'm playing with combat monsters with 6 times my SPs, as long as when I'm playing against people of a similar SP total, they can't pay MONEY to be using gear that is otherwise above their skill level. That is P2W, and it pisses me off.
Plenty of other ways CCP could make money off of aurum, like oh say... blueprints! What an idea! CCP doesn't even have to make them permanent; I wouldn't mind being able to shell out 20000 aurum for an advanced battlesuit BPO that would give me, oh, say 500 copies of a suit I can already use. The key words are the last 4; "that I can already use." That's allowing me to supplement my ISK with cold hard cash if I choose to, not letting me brute about in gear more advanced than I should be able to use just because I'm some brat spending Daddy's cash or some yuppie drone with no life and nothing better to do with me life.

Edit: i didnt reasearch into this enough. but it does turn out market is not even coming this build... [bummer] So player market isn't coming any time soon (Dust 514 is Pay to Win?)

(Not original post)People that come with their blunt responses need to move along, you dont help with anything. Paying for aurum is a joke, you could pay upto (currency)240 a year on a FREE GAME.

So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins?

The dude with the ISK-bought prototype gear.

Could you not jusy say one with kitted out isk gear, one with miltia. who wins? ether way is the same result.

If we are talking about the effects of aurum on gear make it fair.

So 2 teams of newbies. one with aurum bought standard gear, one with isk bought standard gear. Who wins?

I'll never stop. These are the most entertaining threads because they are the most likely to be filled with people that have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Could you not jusy say one with kitted out isk gear, one with miltia. who wins?

There are no AUR-weapons or other exclusive items/vehicles bought with real money that are statistically superior to the ISK variants (you only get to use them with less SP investment, so again, the ISK variants only take more time to use), so again, this is not P2W.

While there are no AUR items with directly-applicable benefits, there are some which have better fitting stats than the ISK equivalent. Those are arguably pay-to-win, and in many cases when something like that has been pointed out, CCP have either removed the item or adjusted the stats to be in line with the ISK version.

It's not "Pay to Win" and much as it is "a mistake". Semantics is an important part of any argument. I see something that is "broken" implying it will be fixed. But when you call it "P2W" aren't you implying that it was intentional game design? I understand it may technically be that but even then all you're saying is "broken thing is broken", right?

The damage mods and shield regulator are an exception as they were overlooked when the rest of those type items (which actually were P2W) were removed. I'm sure CCP will fix that whenever they get a chance. And currently the only broken item I can think of is the Tsunami Mass Driver, since it has basic fitting but advanced damage.