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snipper doo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 12	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:15:00 - [61] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: If you don't like it don't play, this is how free games work and no one is forcing you to pay or play for that matter. One of the stupidest things i've read right there. thanks for the laugh. Ccp 'not p2w' Op 'it is p2w' You 'it is p2w but gtfo if you don't like it' Hahahahahaha you kitten
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 771	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:29:00 - [62] - Quote Temba Fusrodah wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Temba Fusrodah wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: I have yet to pay a dime, I do fairly well and enjoy the game very much, did I mention that I have yet to pay a dime? If I'm not paying then what right do I have to complain if other people get faster access to better gear? To follow your logic to it's conclusion ..... if you don't pay a dime what right do you have to get into a conversation with those who are paying? Because nothings stopping me I suppose you could say nothings stopping him from complaining, but that doesn't mean CCP has to change their business model just for him. Using only part of the quote makes you seem intellectually uncourageous, the game is what it is and imho people need to whine less about who is paying for an advantage. NEWS FLASH that is how the world works, get over it and find a way to get the best advantage for yourself! I was under the impression you were just making a general statement and that it wasn't directed at me, which is why I didn't include it.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 455	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:37:00 - [63] - Quote snipper doo wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: If you don't like it don't play, this is how free games work and no one is forcing you to pay or play for that matter. One of the stupidest things i've read right there. thanks for the laugh. Ccp 'not p2w' Op 'it is p2w' You 'it is p2w but gtfo if you don't like it' Hahahahahaha you kitten Once the market is up this won't be an issue any more, so don't think CCP lied or mislead anybody.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 20	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:50:00 - [64] - Quote Twisted202 wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: I have yet to pay a dime, I do fairly well and enjoy the game very much, did I mention that I have yet to pay a dime? If I'm not paying then what right do I have to complain if other people get faster access to better gear? Im on 4mil Sp, someone who would have played around the same time as me with boosters could have up to 6 mil, how can i compete with that. depends entirely on how the SP was spent. all 100% of that SP doesn't always work together in ways that are beneficial and players don't always use the same order for training.
Cat Merc OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 429	Posted - 2013.04.07 04:52:00 - [65] - Quote King Kobrah wrote: When you have AUR items that outperform it's ISK variants, it's P2W. There are some... For example the tether shield regulator. Or a nanohive which I forgot its name. But they are oversights which were already discussed with the devs.
Charizard Zakalwe Immobile Infantry 5	Posted - 2013.04.07 05:20:00 - [66] - Quote A lot of people here don't know what Pay to Win means. Pay to Win means that simply by buying better gear with real money, you'll regularly out perform better, more skilled players not buying money gear. Ever AUR item in this game that isn't a BPO is just an item that has a lower prerequisites than the isk version. Like the blindfire requiring a lower level of Assault Rifle Operations than the GEK-38.
Tarquin Markel Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 88	Posted - 2013.04.07 05:21:00 - [67] - Quote Major difference between ISK gear and AUR? Killing your AUR gear is just that little bit more personal. Otherwise, the advantage is incremental at the low end and usually nada at the high. The gear that drives me crazy is officer kit: the Thale's sniper. More than any other sniper rifle, that one's a game changer when it appears, especially in places like Manus Peak. However, acquiring that stuff is strictly luck. In its way, DUST is both more limited in the application you can put AUR to and kinder to the player who does so. In Eve, you've been able to pay other players ISK for game time codes for ages. This has resulted in a sadly common scenario in which some newcomer to the game pours a couple hundred RL $$ into time codes, sells them to other players, buys a skilled-up character and a faction battleship or a dreadnought, then loads it with a mix of gun and missile types, plus a hull repairer, and goes out to hunt NPC pirates in lowsec. It's Christmas for the first PC pirate gang to wander through. DUST is kind in that the boost is both smaller and less costly. Just because you can get nifty equipment with unearned speed doesn't mean you have the skills and knowhow to back it up.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 20	Posted - 2013.04.07 05:28:00 - [68] - Quote Oh god... Thale's..... makes me want to shout at the sky like Kirk does his "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!" cry. Thing hits for an extra 100 damage before all the modifiers and very likely will one shot you through the foot in the right hands Why I'm also saving every last one I find. I'll either use them or sell them for exorbitant prices when the market opens up.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 60	Posted - 2013.04.07 06:02:00 - [69] - Quote It is play to win just as much as eve. Unless you have deep pockets, its not smart to use the 'best' gear all the time, all things can get destroyed permanently. You have to think not just of the battle but the war.
Khamelaya Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.04.07 06:19:00 - [70] - Quote Situation A A sniper is shooting long range at a scout with a shotgun running in open terrain. Situation B A scout with a shotgun is sneaking up behind a sniper facing the other direction. If your a sniper you want to be in situation A, if your a scout you want to be in situation B. Neither situation means anyone is overpowered. No matter what gear/equipment you and your enemy have, there is always a situation where you have the advantage. Thats where the skill comes in to the game, pick your battles, know when to retreat. As yo progress in this game you do not become more powerful, you only gain more flexibility. You find more ways to put yourself at an advantage. Weather you gain your advantage through in game skills, isk, aur or real life skills is irrelevant. If you spend your money on the most powerful scout gear in the game and then charge straight ahead in to a heavy machine gun, you're going to die. This game is about picking your battles. The only difference that AUR makes is that players are risking more to gain that flexibility. The more they spend on gearing up each round, the more they have to loose. They may kill me 4 times to every 1 time i kill them, but if their gear costs 10 times as much as mine then who is the real winner? This only makes it all the more satisfying when I kill someone thats fully decked out in top of the range gear with my full set of militia grade equipment. I should point out that I have so far spent about $120 on this game (australian, our merc packs cost more than everyones else's). I have spent all my AURUM on militia blueprints. Even fighting in full militia gear, I still manage to top the scoreboard in almost every game i play. This game is not "Pay to Win".

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2392	Posted - 2013.04.07 07:13:00 - [71] - Quote Khamelaya wrote: (australian, our merc packs cost more than everyones else's) I'm interested to compare your Merc Pack prices to NZ's - I remember someone checking a while ago, and I think you guys JUST edged us out after the currency rate was accounted for, but it's close. Also, on-topic, there are very, VERY few items you can buy for AUR (or directly with real money) which are objectively better than their ISK equivalents. The AUR tanks supposedly have slightly buffed PG/CPU - I haven't checked this myself to be sure. I'm also unable to check stats for the Creodron and Kaalakiota HAVs, but I've heard they have higher PG/CPU than the usual Militia HAVs. There are a handful of modules which are not only lower skill requirements than the ISK versions, but also have lower PG/CPU requirements, meaning you don't have to sacrifice as much in your fitting, which is pay-to-win, if only in a small way. The majority of AUR items are just a way to save ISK or get access to something with less SP investment - and usually that lack of SP holds you back from performing as well as you would with the skills trained up to use the ISK equivalent. If someone's using the "Killswitch" AR against someone using the ISK version of the same AR, and both players are exactly on their weapon's SP requirements, and have otherwise identical skills and fittings, the player who DIDN'T spend any Aurum has the advantage.
Beld Errmon Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 563	Posted - 2013.04.07 09:04:00 - [72] - Quote snipper doo wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: If you don't like it don't play, this is how free games work and no one is forcing you to pay or play for that matter. One of the stupidest things i've read right there. thanks for the laugh. Ccp 'not p2w' Op 'it is p2w' You 'it is p2w but gtfo if you don't like it' Hahahahahaha you kitten yep exactly if you don't like it gtfo, ccp has bills to pay and servers don't run on good will. don't install a free game if you don't like micro transactions simple as that.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 44	Posted - 2013.04.07 10:20:00 - [73] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: Sete Clifton wrote: Pay to win generally refers to games where you can access certain gear/items/skills/etc only through paying real money. Dust just allows you to speed up the leveling/gearing process. It's mostly just a convenience thing, everything can be obtained through just playing the game. Some have pointed out that there are a couple of items that cost aurum that have lower CPU/PG costs, but hopefully that gets adjusted. And in any case, it's not really game breaking anyway. yeah someone that uses Kb/M AND AUR stuff is not game breaking have fun playing against same few people using Kb/M and AUR stuff because that is the future of Dust514 Look, if it was up to me, they never would have introduced keyboard support. That being said, there isn't much they can do about that now, and it doesn't really seem to be that much of an advantage anyway. As for aurum items. They're necessary because this game needs to make money in order to continue. They are merely a convenience. It might take a little longer to get the ISK version of the same item, but that doesn't bother me. then why not sell the game for 60$ and have everyone same stuff? you know why? because it generates MORE money this way GREED ruining another game with potential
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 44	Posted - 2013.04.07 10:22:00 - [74] - Quote Twisted202 wrote: Skipper Jones wrote: There is no aurum item that gives a DEFINITE advantage over some one who pays with isk. I have not put a single penny into this game and I have no problem with being competitive with the people who use boosters or use a "get it faster item". The skill cap balances out the people who use boosters, the aurum weapons are the same weapons as the higher tier one, you just get them faster. The game isn't pay to win. So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins? the newbie team
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 44	Posted - 2013.04.07 10:23:00 - [75] - Quote Whenever a game sells items that give ADVANTAGE it is a PAY 2 WIN . FACT and end of story. No ammount of posting drones will change that.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 419	Posted - 2013.04.07 11:47:00 - [76] - Quote Pay to win = buying an unassailable advantage that you can only get through paying with real money. For example, in SW:TOR, if you're a subscriber, you get full access to the game. If you don't pay monthly, then you can play 3 PVP matches a week, tops, and get less rewards for your time. That's unassailable, due to the gear you can get through those PvP matches. However, in DUST, a protobear can be killed by some random in a militia suit. Teamwork is OP, gear is not. Tactics are also OP... That's why, in warfare, you never see two sides just charging at another. Except for that really horrid time between 1700 AD to 1914 AD, where two sides literally stood opposite each other and shot at each other.
The Medic Droid The Phoenix Federation 22	Posted - 2013.04.07 12:06:00 - [77] - Quote In my experience, those who use Aurum die just as well as those who don't. Victory is not assured by the equipment of a team, but by the tactics and teamwork that they use.
The Medic Droid The Phoenix Federation 22	Posted - 2013.04.07 12:07:00 - [78] - Quote Laheon wrote: Pay to win = buying an unassailable advantage that you can only get through paying with real money. For example, in SW:TOR, if you're a subscriber, you get full access to the game. If you don't pay monthly, then you can play 3 PVP matches a week, tops, and get less rewards for your time. That's unassailable, due to the gear you can get through those PvP matches. However, in DUST, a protobear can be killed by some random in a militia suit. Teamwork is OP, gear is not. Tactics are also OP... That's why, in warfare, you never see two sides just charging at another. Except for that really horrid time between 1700 AD to 1914 AD, where two sides literally stood opposite each other and shot at each other. Oh, I'm sorry about that. My post echoes yours.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 44	Posted - 2013.04.07 12:08:00 - [79] - Quote The Medic Droid wrote: In my experience, those who use Aurum die just as well as those who don't. Victory is not assured by the equipment of a team, but by the tactics and teamwork that they use. then AURUM should be removed
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 118	Posted - 2013.04.07 12:46:00 - [80] - Quote Imho questions like "is Dust p2w?" can't be answered until the game comes out. It is a bit like trotting in place. You are getting all fired up but actually going nowhere. There are still many features being developed that have to yet be implemented, including Planetary conquest (which comes next build), semi random map generation based on heightmaps from planets in eve (it was said, that this is the way maps will be generated, right? might be wrong though), Pve modes, Player market and so on and so forth. Once they say "we are out of beta" it should be of more use to argue over P2W or not P2W. . .

Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 458	Posted - 2013.04.07 12:49:00 - [81] - Quote Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote: Imho questions like "is Dust p2w?" can't be answered until the game comes out. It is a bit like trotting in place. You are getting all fired up but actually going nowhere. There are still many features being developed that have to yet be implemented, including Planetary conquest (which comes next build), semi random map generation based on heightmaps from planets in eve (it was said, that this is the way maps will be generated, right? might be wrong though), Pve modes, Player market and so on and so forth. Once they say "we are out of beta" it should be of more use to argue over P2W or not P2W. . . Pretty much this. And since all those AUR items will be available for ISK it will be a short argument.
Yeva Kalsani Reckoners 23	Posted - 2013.04.07 13:05:00 - [82] - Quote Generally: if a game features the same things for free albeit requiring more time investments, it's F2P and not P2W. There are no AUR-weapons or other exclusive items/vehicles bought with real money that are statistically superior to the ISK variants (you only get to use them with less SP investment, so again, the ISK variants only take more time to use), so again, this is not P2W. All the badass players are running around in their starter fittings and/or militia gear, kicking ass, hoarding ISK, and I hardly see anybody use the AUR items except for Militia Blueprints. Those that do aren't at any particular advantage. For instance, if someone comes shooting around all willy-nilly with a 'Killswitch' GEK AR, he or she isn't using a more effective weapon than the regular GEK. Might be even less effective if that someone bought the weapon before skilling into it the ISK equivalent, because someone with the regular GEK has more SP put into AR operation. In fact, you're probably better off playing with the regular stuff before you invest in any AUR gear, it's probably better to practice with that. The AUR gear is useful if you want to save time racking up ISK and get the AUR variant instead. Case closed.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 777	Posted - 2013.04.08 01:29:00 - [83] - Quote You know what, lets just say it P2W. What are you going to do, cry about it?
Llael Harkness BetaMax. CRONOS. 0	Posted - 2013.04.08 02:40:00 - [84] - Quote SP boosters and universal communicator, I don't have a problem with. Why? 1 - Universal commo - Yes, CCP has to make some money. No biggie 2 - SP boosters - Systems are in place to match you (mostly) against players with similar total SPs. I don't gripe about getting pasted when I'm playing with combat monsters with 6 times my SPs, as long as when I'm playing against people of a similar SP total, they can't pay MONEY to be using gear that is otherwise above their skill level. That is P2W, and it pisses me off. Plenty of other ways CCP could make money off of aurum, like oh say... blueprints! What an idea! CCP doesn't even have to make them permanent; I wouldn't mind being able to shell out 20000 aurum for an advanced battlesuit BPO that would give me, oh, say 500 copies of a suit I can already use. The key words are the last 4; "that I can already use." That's allowing me to supplement my ISK with cold hard cash if I choose to, not letting me brute about in gear more advanced than I should be able to use just because I'm some brat spending Daddy's cash or some yuppie drone with no life and nothing better to do with me life.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 459	Posted - 2013.04.08 03:43:00 - [85] - Quote Llael Harkness wrote: SP boosters and universal communicator, I don't have a problem with. Why? 1 - Universal commo - Yes, CCP has to make some money. No biggie The voice chat software is licensed from another company so UVT's are there to offset this cost, not really as a source of profit for CCP. Quote: 2 - SP boosters - Systems are in place to match you (mostly) against players with similar total SPs. I don't gripe about getting pasted when I'm playing with combat monsters with 6 times my SPs, as long as when I'm playing against people of a similar SP total, they can't pay MONEY to be using gear that is otherwise above their skill level. That is P2W, and it pisses me off. Plenty of other ways CCP could make money off of aurum, like oh say... blueprints! What an idea! CCP doesn't even have to make them permanent; I wouldn't mind being able to shell out 20000 aurum for an advanced battlesuit BPO that would give me, oh, say 500 copies of a suit I can already use. The key words are the last 4; "that I can already use." That's allowing me to supplement my ISK with cold hard cash if I choose to, not letting me brute about in gear more advanced than I should be able to use just because I'm some brat spending Daddy's cash or some yuppie drone with no life and nothing better to do with me life. Honestly AUR items are only useful for trying stuff out before investing the SP. Most of the time they're not enough of an improvement to make it worthwhile. The boosters are different obviously, but again once you can buy them for ISK everything will be equal. Might **** you off now but that's not how CCP intends the game to be but at the moment there's nothing they can do about it.
Devils Imp Expert Intervention Caldari State 37	Posted - 2013.04.08 03:45:00 - [86] - Quote Twisted202 wrote: Edit: i didnt reasearch into this enough. but it does turn out market is not even coming this build... [bummer] So player market isn't coming any time soon (Dust 514 is Pay to Win?) (Not original post)People that come with their blunt responses need to move along, you dont help with anything. Paying for aurum is a joke, you could pay upto (currency)240 a year on a FREE GAME. You NEED 2 b removed from the all MIGHTY CRONOS for being so dumb
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 204	Posted - 2013.04.08 04:32:00 - [87] - Quote Twisted202 wrote: Skipper Jones wrote: There is no aurum item that gives a DEFINITE advantage over some one who pays with isk. I have not put a single penny into this game and I have no problem with being competitive with the people who use boosters or use a "get it faster item". The skill cap balances out the people who use boosters, the aurum weapons are the same weapons as the higher tier one, you just get them faster. The game isn't pay to win. So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins? The dude with the ISK-bought prototype gear.
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 195	Posted - 2013.04.08 04:35:00 - [88] - Quote And on this thread goes. Stahp guys.
Viktor Hadah Jr D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.04.08 04:39:00 - [89] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Twisted202 wrote: Skipper Jones wrote: There is no aurum item that gives a DEFINITE advantage over some one who pays with isk. I have not put a single penny into this game and I have no problem with being competitive with the people who use boosters or use a "get it faster item". The skill cap balances out the people who use boosters, the aurum weapons are the same weapons as the higher tier one, you just get them faster. The game isn't pay to win. So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins? The dude with the ISK-bought prototype gear. Could you not jusy say one with kitted out isk gear, one with miltia. who wins? ether way is the same result. If we are talking about the effects of aurum on gear make it fair. So 2 teams of newbies. one with aurum bought standard gear, one with isk bought standard gear. Who wins?
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 687	Posted - 2013.04.08 04:43:00 - [90] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Twisted202 wrote: Skipper Jones wrote: There is no aurum item that gives a DEFINITE advantage over some one who pays with isk. I have not put a single penny into this game and I have no problem with being competitive with the people who use boosters or use a "get it faster item". The skill cap balances out the people who use boosters, the aurum weapons are the same weapons as the higher tier one, you just get them faster. The game isn't pay to win. So 2 teams of newbies. one with kitted out aurum gear, one with miltia. Who wins? The dude with the ISK-bought prototype gear. Could you not jusy say one with kitted out isk gear, one with miltia. who wins? ether way is the same result. If we are talking about the effects of aurum on gear make it fair. So 2 teams of newbies. one with aurum bought standard gear, one with isk bought standard gear. Who wins? It'll be a tie, if not the team with bonused standard gear since they're putting sp in.



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