DUST Search - "not a pay to win game"

Altina McAlterson wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Yeva Kalsani wrote:

There are no AUR-weapons or other exclusive items/vehicles bought with real money that are statistically superior to the ISK variants (you only get to use them with less SP investment, so again, the ISK variants only take more time to use), so again, this is not P2W.

While there are no AUR items with directly-applicable benefits, there are some which have better fitting stats than the ISK equivalent. Those are arguably pay-to-win, and in many cases when something like that has been pointed out, CCP have either removed the item or adjusted the stats to be in line with the ISK version.

It's not "Pay to Win" and much as it is "a mistake". Semantics is an important part of any argument. I see something that is "broken" implying it will be fixed. But when you call it "P2W" aren't you implying that it was intentional game design? I understand it may technically be that but even then all you're saying is "broken thing is broken", right?

The damage mods and shield regulator are an exception as they were overlooked when the rest of those type items (which actually were P2W) were removed. I'm sure CCP will fix that whenever they get a chance. And currently the only broken item I can think of is the Tsunami Mass Driver, since it has basic fitting but advanced damage.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2392	Posted - 2013.04.07 07:13:00 - [1] - Quote Khamelaya wrote: (australian, our merc packs cost more than everyones else's) I'm interested to compare your Merc Pack prices to NZ's - I remember someone checking a while ago, and I think you guys JUST edged us out after the currency rate was accounted for, but it's close. Also, on-topic, there are very, VERY few items you can buy for AUR (or directly with real money) which are objectively better than their ISK equivalents. The AUR tanks supposedly have slightly buffed PG/CPU - I haven't checked this myself to be sure. I'm also unable to check stats for the Creodron and Kaalakiota HAVs, but I've heard they have higher PG/CPU than the usual Militia HAVs. There are a handful of modules which are not only lower skill requirements than the ISK versions, but also have lower PG/CPU requirements, meaning you don't have to sacrifice as much in your fitting, which is pay-to-win, if only in a small way. The majority of AUR items are just a way to save ISK or get access to something with less SP investment - and usually that lack of SP holds you back from performing as well as you would with the skills trained up to use the ISK equivalent. If someone's using the "Killswitch" AR against someone using the ISK version of the same AR, and both players are exactly on their weapon's SP requirements, and have otherwise identical skills and fittings, the player who DIDN'T spend any Aurum has the advantage.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2400	Posted - 2013.04.08 08:36:00 - [2] - Quote Yeva Kalsani wrote: There are no AUR-weapons or other exclusive items/vehicles bought with real money that are statistically superior to the ISK variants (you only get to use them with less SP investment, so again, the ISK variants only take more time to use), so again, this is not P2W. While there are no AUR items with directly-applicable benefits, there are some which have better fitting stats than the ISK equivalent. Those are arguably pay-to-win, and in many cases when something like that has been pointed out, CCP have either removed the item or adjusted the stats to be in line with the ISK version.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2401	Posted - 2013.04.08 11:31:00 - [3] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Yeva Kalsani wrote: There are no AUR-weapons or other exclusive items/vehicles bought with real money that are statistically superior to the ISK variants (you only get to use them with less SP investment, so again, the ISK variants only take more time to use), so again, this is not P2W. While there are no AUR items with directly-applicable benefits, there are some which have better fitting stats than the ISK equivalent. Those are arguably pay-to-win, and in many cases when something like that has been pointed out, CCP have either removed the item or adjusted the stats to be in line with the ISK version. It's not "Pay to Win" and much as it is "a mistake". Semantics is an important part of any argument. I see something that is "broken" implying it will be fixed. But when you call it "P2W" aren't you implying that it was intentional game design? I understand it may technically be that but even then all you're saying is "broken thing is broken", right? The damage mods and shield regulator are an exception as they were overlooked when the rest of those type items (which actually were P2W) were removed. I'm sure CCP will fix that whenever they get a chance. And currently the only broken item I can think of is the Tsunami Mass Driver, since it has basic fitting but advanced damage. Hence why I used the word "arguably" and explained that many such examples like the few that remain have already been fixed in the past. But thanks for adding more emphasis to that side of the argument. Also, while these mistakes are yet to be fixed, they essentially make the game pay-to-win, even if it is only temporary. The intent of something and the result aren't always the same.