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The-Last-Ninja
FIND CARL CORP
49
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Posted - 2013.04.07 00:33:00 -
[91] - Quote
Twisted202 wrote:Red Eye Laser wrote:Twisted202 wrote:Odiain Suliis wrote:Personally I don't get, current type of console, controllers in a FSP games. Why would one wan't to use something as a inpud device that has poor accuracy on aiming and presice movement? Not everyone can play with K&M which makes it unfair. Not everyone can afford to buy AUR so should that be scraped in favour of making things more fair?. Its not about the price, its the fact not everyone will have M&K
Not everyone will have bought the same equipment and weapons. Not everyone will have the same skills leveled up. This game does not have an even playing field in mind, which I find upsetting.
I'm fine with KB&M staying in. Even if KB+M support was taken away, there are adapters out there, in addition to modified controllers like the FragFX, which are fairly expensive. I'd rather everyone have the option to use KB+M. Besides, a Logitech keyboard and mouse only costs $10~$20. |
BlG MAMA
PLAYSTATION4
39
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Posted - 2013.04.07 00:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
I dont mind Kb/M and AUR as long as there is a filter to search games without Kb/M and AUR. |
Beld Errmon
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
561
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Posted - 2013.04.07 01:04:00 -
[93] - Quote
The song that never ends |
FortyFive Auto
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
0
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Posted - 2013.04.07 01:08:00 -
[94] - Quote
To those who care what others use: don't know whether to laugh at you or feel sorry for you..
Get over it.
And having the most kills on the leaderboard doesn't = top players. Not everyone plays ambush just to keep their name on that pointless list
Cheers
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2391
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Posted - 2013.04.07 02:09:00 -
[95] - Quote
Sixaxis = better precision movement than Keyboard. Mouse = better precision aim than Sixaxis.
In most modern games - but not all FPS games - on PC, using a mouse also allows you to pull near-instant 180 degree (or further) turns with the flick of a wrist.
Barring use of gaming mice with variable DPI settings, some of which (but not all) break DUST's turn speed cap and allow you to pull this same trick, there isn't a practical advantage to either controller choice that isn't balanced by a disadvantage.
Mouse is better for sniping, Sixaxis is better for CQC.
Both control schemes need a fair amount of work - in both customisability and in competent functionality. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
723
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Posted - 2013.04.07 02:23:00 -
[96] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Sixaxis = better precision movement than Keyboard. Mouse = better precision aim than Sixaxis.
In most modern games - but not all FPS games - on PC, using a mouse also allows you to pull near-instant 180 degree (or further) turns with the flick of a wrist.
Barring use of gaming mice with variable DPI settings, some of which (but not all) break DUST's turn speed cap and allow you to pull this same trick, there isn't a practical advantage to either controller choice that isn't balanced by a disadvantage.
Mouse is better for sniping, Sixaxis is better for CQC.
Both control schemes need a fair amount of work - in both customisability and in competent functionality.
I have had the exact opposite experience with mouse vs. ds 3 as far as sniping and cqc fights. I can snipe much more accurately with the DS 3 for some reason. Finding mid range to cqc much much easier with assault rifle fitting, mouse and controler hybrid playstyle.
But I can very easily flip a 180 with the Macally mouse I took home from my last job when they were handing out all their old computers free to employees after upgrading. Free mouse is best mouse. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
127
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Posted - 2013.04.07 08:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
Quote:I'm too old now, no longer play to compete so I don't need handicap. When I find time to play after days work I play to relax and have fun with my buddies. Otherwise I'd be on PC, playing Battlefield or Diablo.
And if your mouse is slow you might want to try another one or search the forums, and then stop the disinformation.
I am not going to replace a 120$ gaming mouse for another, if it has these specs on PC, if it doesnt have it on ps3 its because their support of it is crap.
5600dpi Razer Precision 3.5G Laser Sensor 1000Hz Ultrapolling / 1ms response time 200 inches per second max tracking speed
Until i get this response out of my mouse together with a smooth 60 FPS all day long, DS3 users don't need to worry about not being able to compete with these mouses. |
McFurious
BetaMax. CRONOS.
72
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Posted - 2013.04.07 09:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
Try them both and use what you're best with. Stop making QQ threads. |
Fractalist Nanomind
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.04.07 09:39:00 -
[99] - Quote
Getting my PS3 in the next couple of days so can't speak from experience in this game, but joypads in general definitely need more configurable options. I've been mainly a PC gamer for the last few years, but whenever I dig out the PS2 or 360 I really struggle with the joypads. In addition, holding a joypad for a few hours makes my fingers ache, they're just too small for my hands.
Making the deadzone smaller is one thing, but I'd need to control the acceleration curve as the thumbsticks are moved too. I'd love to have a slow exponential variability up to about 1/2 displacement for sniping and then then a linear motion curve from there up to full speed at the extreme. I can control acceleration and speed on a mouse, until I get the same custom settings for a joypad, I'll never be comfortable with them.
Joypad coding is stuck as it was set in stone on their creation and needs a bit of love to bring it into the new millenium. As someone who's messed about with a bit of coding, I have to say that my suggestion above would be exceptionally easy to implement. I don't care about vibration or six axis movement, they just need to be made applicable to modern games and this can be achieved easily. |
Ech0 0ne
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.07 09:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I'm too old now, no longer play to compete so I don't need handicap. When I find time to play after days work I play to relax and have fun with my buddies. Otherwise I'd be on PC, playing Battlefield or Diablo.
And if your mouse is slow you might want to try another one or search the forums, and then stop the disinformation. I am not going to replace a 120$ gaming mouse for another, if it has these specs on PC, if it doesnt have it on ps3 its because their support of it is crap. 5600dpi Razer Precision 3.5G Laser Sensor 1000Hz Ultrapolling / 1ms response time 200 inches per second max tracking speed Until i get this response out of my mouse together with a smooth 60 FPS all day long, DS3 users don't need to worry about not being able to compete with these mouses.
+1 |
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AskuII Legend
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
23
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Posted - 2013.04.07 11:19:00 -
[101] - Quote
Storytellers ... Gamepad users = mouse users. Cool story, bro! |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
135
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Posted - 2013.04.07 21:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
Topics like these just get burried by people who defend their turf - there is no way that all the people who take advantage of K&M superiority would ever give that up. If you notice, this thread was brought up by a guy with a legitimate concern but all the response comments are mostly from K&M users who try hard to dismiss it. And the range of contra-arguments goes from: "STFU", to "K&M and controller are even", to "this is EVE, baby, it's not supposed to be fair".
I think the best players in this game are exclusively K&M users. As a controller user I cannot keep playing the game competitively. It was a huge mistake to make the game dually compatible with KM and gamepads. Now the cat is out of the bag and you can't please people no matter what. I think CCP is gonna be in a big pickle. If the number of players picks up after main release, the majority of the players would not switch to K&M - it's just not comfortable for most ppl from PS3 community. Most ppl that I know who play on PS3 like to sit on a couch or a lazy boy. There is no room for K&M there. Now that's a huge player base that will quickly get disenchanted with the game, no matter how deep it is, if all they do all day long is get their S's handed back to them match after match by K&M users.
I also think there is much to be said about controller responsiveness. This game feels like something ported from PC to a console, rather than a console game in terms of controller sensitivity. It is painfully obvious to anyone who plays as a sniper - you cannot make fine adjustments on the game pad - if you move right stick just a bit the reticle does not move at all; if you put a bit more pressure, it just jumps over your target. There is no effective fine tuning on a controller. Admittedly, this problem used to be a lot worse early in the Beta but it is still glaring. Poor controller responsiveness compounds the problem with K&M superiority. |
Fractalist Nanomind
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.04.07 21:19:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:I also think there is much to be said about controller responsiveness. This game feels like something ported from PC to a console, rather than a console game in terms of controller sensitivity. It is painfully obvious to anyone who plays as a sniper - you cannot make fine adjustments on the game pad - if you move right stick just a bit the reticle does not move at all; if you put a bit more pressure, it just jumps over your target. There is no effective fine tuning on a controller. Admittedly, this problem used to be a lot worse early in the Beta but it is still glaring. Poor controller responsiveness compounds the problem with K&M superiority.
Very good point, Ludvig, but in my post I pointed out that there can be fine tuning on a controller. It's just up to the devs to implement it, and I have never seen a game that implements it. Instead of trying to find a non-existent "one size fits all" controller tuning, users should be allowed to tweak it.
The message that controllers send to the console is effectively a value (eg. between -1,000 and +1,000 for each axis). It is entirely up to the game to process this thumbstick value. Providing the player with a setup screen would be relatively easy.
You could have a simple graph for each axis with the X value being thumbstick displacement and the Y value being game sensitivity. Each user could then set up the thumbstics to their own preference. Want linear progression as the thumbstick is moved from centre to extreme? Set the graph to a simple line curve. Want exponential progression so small movements do very little motion for sniping and large movements do a lot for spinning in close combat? Set a curve that starts shallow and then goes steeper.
"One size fits all" is not an appropriate paradigm for a game that caters for many different playstyles, players should be able to customize their controls. CCP has broken so much new ground with this game that I think it's time to address the imbalances between controllers and KBM. Not by nerfing KBM, but by improving the implementation of controllers. |
ca ronic
Moffit Bros
0
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Posted - 2013.04.07 22:06:00 -
[104] - Quote
OP's point was kb/m is like an athlete on steroids, if that was true the OP would be using a mouse. I hope they improve the controller as well.
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Foo Fighting
Foo Fighting Corporation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.07 23:12:00 -
[105] - Quote
There doesn't seem to be half as many posts from K/M players complaining about the imbalance.....just saying.
What would be good for DS3 players, is if you could control the crosshairs with the d-pad just while aiming down the sights of a sniper rifle. |
dazlb72
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
6
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Posted - 2013.04.07 23:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
should get rid of it |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:04:00 -
[107] - Quote
Cpt Murd0ck wrote:Twisted202 wrote:Odiain Suliis wrote:Personally I don't get, current type of console, controllers in a FSP games. Why would one wan't to use something as a inpud device that has poor accuracy on aiming and presice movement? Not everyone can play with K&M which makes it unfair. I'm pretty sure you can pick up a K&M cheaper than a ps3 controller
thirty bucks, or steal the ones off a computer some where, go to a garage sale you can pick up old KBM set ups for <5 bucks and given the shittastic input for mice you dont need a gaming mouse just something you are comfortable with.
give it a whirl I bet you it hurts you more then helps you changing up controller type is harder then you might think, the intuitive response is far more important the controller type. |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:18:00 -
[108] - Quote
I swear I don't get the FSKING console community, Its alright to have hardware/software aided controls like auto aim and turbo controlers, but god forbid that some one uses the best unaided control scheme possible. No thats not allowed if I can't sit reclined hands resting comfortably on my crotch and play a game then obviously its a control scheme that is HAX!! and is the reason that I am losing.
MIND ******* BLOWN! |
ERIC ALIGHIERI
152d VANGUARD MERCENARIES
56
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:32:00 -
[109] - Quote
lordjanuz wrote:K/M is here to stay, move on.
+1 |
ERIC ALIGHIERI
152d VANGUARD MERCENARIES
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:37:00 -
[110] - Quote
A big reason the K/M is here is so that DUST 514 does not need to go to the PC. Many players want there aimbots and other cheats that don't exist on the PS3. Giving a PC player their K/M is a much better fit than having this game go to PC and sucking it up because of cheating. GET OVER IT..... Just because you suck with the controller doesn't mean you should take it out on people. Perhaps give the K/M a chance.. you might just like it :) and not to mention you have a option, your not forced to play with one device. |
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Vethosis
Universal Allies Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.04.08 01:38:00 -
[111] - Quote
I personally have such good aim if someone is in my range and line of sight, I can most of the time kill them, KB/M or ds3 |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.04.08 02:25:00 -
[112] - Quote
Crm234 wrote:DTOracle wrote:Crm234 wrote:It really comes down to that CCP had no faith in Dust other than a Eve minigame on the PS3 or any faith in the PS3 community. This issue has been around since I joined Dust over 7 months ago and hasn't gone away. Eve players always talk about adapting till they have to use the PS3 controller that should be a non issue on a PS3 game. The only ones that complain about having to use the controller are Eve players. No one that has own a PS3 longer than Dust, would ever complain about having to use the PS3 controller.
Its not the advantage , its more that the keyboard and mouse brings a shadow of a doubt , symbolizing a slap in the face to the PS3 community. For this and more reasons convinced me to never try and play another CCP game. I play Dust more for my Corp mates at the moment that make the game enjoyable. You do realize there various companies in business solely making mouse peripherals for consoles. There are many people myself included, that have been playing fps' before they became popular on consoles. If It's that much better, then use it. But this is simply not the case. First off you assume im a child that has only played games on the PS3 and that's not true at all. I have been playing FPS games and other types of games since Atari when i was young. there is no excuse for not using a PS3 controller for PS3 game. We all have had to learn controllers from the NES,SNES,N64, Gensis, Xbox, Playstation, Wii, and Keyboard and Mouse while playing Doom and battlefield 1943. When i play over a friends house that owns a Xbox that I dont own, The last thing I do is scream this game sucks because I cant use my PS controller. Instead I slowly start to learn the Xbox controller, that to this day I still don't find comfortable but became pretty good at GTA 4 with it. I would never buy an Xbox on the logic that I wouldnt need to use the Xbox controller ever. All I have seen from the forum over the months is that Eve players love to scream adapt , till they have to and that has only been the PS3 controller. That CCP ran in to fix faster than Menus, Spawning, Hit detection, or a purpose to play Dust without an Eve account.
ok this has got to stop, this is not EVE vs DUST this is not we are the bastard children of CCP, This is preferred controller.
Ive been in this beta since the beginning, I played with DS3 just fine, I jumped at the KBM because that's what I prefer, and gained...... nothing, but being more comfortable with my controls.
I don't know but coming from the PC world nothing is verboten EXCEPT using hardware or software to do what you cannot, (IE aimboting, turbo controllers,macros) you want to use a joystick or DS3 or KBM or kinnect? use it! you are only limited by what is made for the PC, and what does not take actions for you in a game.
why is this so different for the console, because you have always lived in a walled garden?? are you afraid of the scary outside world, I mean help me understand this.
what about the move, what if the PS4 adds some other peripherals or requires that all games be able to use KBM(not going to happen I know) what are the limits of this exclusivity.
and really dust is looking to become the model for competitive play, soooo outside pub matches, PVE and low level FW I don't see much room for the casual player. |
Sandromin Hes
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
223
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 02:31:00 -
[113] - Quote
Every time I see a Twisted202 thread, I only see Communist posts trying to level the playing field. :|
I mean really, you're trying to make EVERYONE play evenly; do you have something against individuality and the free capitalist market that is New Eden? If everyone was on an even playing field, then we'd be playing one of those bland FPS games the market keeps pushing out. It's getting annoying reading these damned Communist threads.
EDIT: Also, the keyboard and mouse support sucks on this game, weren't you even here during the backlash the first day it was introduced? |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.04.08 02:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:
PS4 moves closer to the PC platform, then staying a console my guess is we will be seeing more KB/M games in the future if they want a slice of the PC market.
The thing is, the PC market is marginal compared to the console market. Any game that is mutiplatform, look at the PC sales, they are always abysmal in comparison to PS3 and 360.
you don't want to get into this discusion that rabbit hole goes down a looooooooooooonnnnnnngggg ways.
I will say that haas more to do with both the companies and customers chasing each other away and less with the popularity of PC games, hell look at the MMO market out there. |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.04.08 02:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
BlG MAMA wrote:I dont mind Kb/M and AUR as long as there is a filter to search games without Kb/M and AUR.
and for the last time , its not about the price of Kb/M , some people dont like to play with Kb/M or dont have the space to set up a Kb/M place and its not fair to those people and last time i checked Dust514 is on PS3 wich is a CONSOLE and MOST of PS3 users use dualshock
with no filter to set for Kb/M and AUR matches Dust514 is doomed to fail
one aur is non issue one the open maket is out
two the controller split only serves to push this issue into the higher levels of play where because this is one world and territory fights will not be divided by controller type. |
blue gt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.04.08 02:58:00 -
[116] - Quote
oh and some one mentioned that ccp was producing a MMOFPS exclusively for the PS3
I believe the wording was they were producing a PS3 exclusive MMOFPS.
meaning they are contractually bound not that this game will only be one the ps3.
also as far as Planetside 2 competition, HAHAHAHAHAHA given how much leeway/backing/advertising sony has given CCP dust is more important to them. |
KA24DERT
UnReaL.
14
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Posted - 2013.04.08 03:20:00 -
[117] - Quote
Everyone's PS3 came with USB ports, do with them what you will.
These threads are pointless. |
Slash Phage
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
2
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Posted - 2013.04.08 11:13:00 -
[118] - Quote
Quote:Everyone's PS3 came with USB ports, do with them what you will.
These threads are pointless.
Thanks. +1 |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2402
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 12:00:00 -
[119] - Quote
blue gt wrote:Also youre bitching about being an EVE mini game IS BULL ****! seriously every one plays in the same giant sand box what could be cooler. EVE took over half a decade to be mostly player run, expect the same for dust, we are not a mini game we are in the growing pains where we are still trying to get the game self sustaining, and its gonna take a little bit. As far as I see it, we're all playing the same game, whether the client we're using is labeled EVE or DUST.
The REAL game of New Eden is in playing the politics and the market. Whether that's Faction Warfare with the primarily NPC-driven politics or the Lowsec/NullSec PvP, the politics of New Eden are more of a core element in EVE Online than flying through space. Obviously, many of these elements are still absent in DUST, but they're coming, with the reworked FW system and PC in the next build, and the player market coming SOONGäó.
Everything else - fittings, spaceships, FPS gameplay - is just a collection of minigames that hold the core gameplay together. |
Chibi Andy
Destruction Initiative Enterprise
56
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:01:00 -
[120] - Quote
so after reading through the post, and after reading all the hate talk about KBM can it be safe to assume that an FPS game shouldn't be on a console? i mean a FPS game plays much better with a KBM, and should AUR be taken out too for those who can't afford to buy things all the time in order to make things far for the rest of the players?
why can't players just use whatever they want to play with? why do you have to care if he/she is using a KMB or a controller?? you dont see players complaining about people spending cash to buy AUR items.
in the end its just players trying to get rid of other players using the KBM with the mindset of KBM is unfair........
so can't we just deal with it and move on? you honestly think CCP is going to get rid of the KBM? and "fairness"???? in dust/EVE universe??? really? since when did this become a fairness game? +¦h wait let me wait for you to reload you gun before i shoot you, that sounds fair enough" or "i'll let you respawn and wait a few seconds till you can see whats happening before shooting at you" so yeah fairness in this universe is almost non-existent |
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