DUST Search - [Request] Once a week refund all spent SP and.....

Cross Atu wrote:

Respecs (the removal of already spent SP which is then placed back into the unallocated SP pool) aren't the proper solution, they're somewhat analogous to taking painkillers for a back or shoulder injury. You alleviate some of the symptoms at the front end while making the overall problems worse in the long run. For much of my analysis on that front see my earlier posts, this one will be focused on solutions which are less 'symptomatic' in nature.

The New Player Experience
While D514 is still in beta one key aspect of the game which needs testing (and polish) is the new player experience. The first impression, accessibility of the game and the implications of it's many choices.
Price adjusting, skill respecs, and many frustrated threads calling "nerf X" or "buff Y" are the children of Dusts steep learning curve. If a player entering the game were greeted by the information needed to make informed decisions than there is no longer any need for those decisions to ever be 'rolled back' because the implications of choice then fall fully upon the user.

This information needs to come in forms more interactive and engaging than our current wall of text popups. What gamer who's just downloaded a game the size of dust, and is excited to play it, takes the time to read and absorb so many walls of text? Experience says not very many, combine that with the diverse learning modality people possess and the new player experience is calling out for more videos, more voiced explanations and more PvE style hands on training scenarios, to fully balance out the VARK offerings of Dust.

Simply put lets make the game more accessible from the outset, first exposure to Dust should ideally give a player the following sensation easy to learn, difficult to master.

My ideas (and those that I've read) are far from the final word when it comes to how we reach that goal but I think it's a mark worth aiming for, and continuing to work on (and what better time to start than the beta?)

Some more detailed ideas are presented here
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64043&find=unread

In addition to that, more directly related to skills I'd like to raise the concept of skill spikes and skill clusters. Now we don't know what these are or whether CCP has already conceptually defined their intended purpose. So my ideas following are theoretical, but lets try to focus on concepts rather than specific terminology.

Skill Clusters - EVE has a "remap" usable once every 12 months for free. This remap allows a player to focus the development of skill growth through specialization, gaining a bonus to gains within a specialty while taking penalties to growth in other areas. Introduce "skill clusters" in Dust to provide the same effect, as an example: A player picks up an Armor skill cluster from the market, plugs in that augmentation and now receives a discount on skills related to improving their ability to use and fit armor for the duration of the mod (other skills would during this time cost more to upgrade thus encouraging players to plan ahead while still allowing enhance flexibility for any player wishing to train into a new battlefield role).

Skill Spikes - The "try before you buy" augmentation. AUR gear already reduces the character skills required to run a given piece of gear but doesn't grant the full effect as the value of supporting skills remains absent.
Skill spikes would be the other side of this coin offering (temporarily and for a price) a single level increase in a given skill. This will not only allow players the chance to test out new fits and ideas (even after the live launch) but prevents abuse by limiting use to a timed single slot augmentation.

When combined with a full range of militia gear and stronger/more diverse full spectrum new player experience Dust can 'have it's cake and eat it too' keeping all choices lasting and their implications persistent while at the same time not shortchanging players who are either new to the game or trying something new with their Dust gaming.
[Note: Even if skill spikes and clusters are slated to be something else I would encourage CCP to consider the ideas above as possible game additions. Their possible value for helping new players and keeping the game fresh for vets shouldn't be undersold]

Rather than continue this tug of war over when/how/how much to "reinvent the wheel" with regards to Dust and skill point (re)allocation lets build on trends and features already within game in ways that accomplish a resolution for the same concerns that raised this topic in the first place.

Cheers,
Cross

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Soozu 5o1st 29	Posted - 2013.03.21 21:57:00 - [121] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63890&find=unread Here is what that says..... We have been getting a lot of questions about Skill Point resets lately. In order to help everyone find this information, here is CCP's official stance on resetting skill points. We currently have no plans to reset your characters' skill points to a state where they are equivalent to a newly created character, barring something catastrophic. ...... that is not what we're discussing here at all. [ I did the underlining of what you seemed to have missed. ] In fact, by posting this and excluding the respec, to me suggests they are still considering / planning it. And most likely reading this thread for suggestions and insights.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 833	Posted - 2013.03.22 04:04:00 - [122] - Quote Respecs (the removal of already spent SP which is then placed back into the unallocated SP pool) aren't the proper solution, they're somewhat analogous to taking painkillers for a back or shoulder injury. You alleviate some of the symptoms at the front end while making the overall problems worse in the long run. For much of my analysis on that front see my earlier posts, this one will be focused on solutions which are less 'symptomatic' in nature. The New Player Experience While D514 is still in beta one key aspect of the game which needs testing (and polish) is the new player experience. The first impression, accessibility of the game and the implications of it's many choices. Price adjusting, skill respecs, and many frustrated threads calling "nerf X" or "buff Y" are the children of Dusts steep learning curve. If a player entering the game were greeted by the information needed to make informed decisions than there is no longer any need for those decisions to ever be 'rolled back' because the implications of choice then fall fully upon the user. This information needs to come in forms more interactive and engaging than our current wall of text popups. What gamer who's just downloaded a game the size of dust, and is excited to play it, takes the time to read and absorb so many walls of text? Experience says not very many, combine that with the diverse learning modality people possess and the new player experience is calling out for more videos, more voiced explanations and more PvE style hands on training scenarios, to fully balance out the VARK offerings of Dust. Simply put lets make the game more accessible from the outset, first exposure to Dust should ideally give a player the following sensation easy to learn, difficult to master. My ideas (and those that I've read) are far from the final word when it comes to how we reach that goal but I think it's a mark worth aiming for, and continuing to work on (and what better time to start than the beta?) Some more detailed ideas are presented here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64043&find=unread In addition to that, more directly related to skills I'd like to raise the concept of skill spikes and skill clusters. Now we don't know what these are or whether CCP has already conceptually defined their intended purpose. So my ideas following are theoretical, but lets try to focus on concepts rather than specific terminology. Skill Clusters - EVE has a "remap" usable once every 12 months for free. This remap allows a player to focus the development of skill growth through specialization, gaining a bonus to gains within a specialty while taking penalties to growth in other areas. Introduce "skill clusters" in Dust to provide the same effect, as an example: A player picks up an Armor skill cluster from the market, plugs in that augmentation and now receives a discount on skills related to improving their ability to use and fit armor for the duration of the mod (other skills would during this time cost more to upgrade thus encouraging players to plan ahead while still allowing enhance flexibility for any player wishing to train into a new battlefield role). Skill Spikes - The "try before you buy" augmentation. AUR gear already reduces the character skills required to run a given piece of gear but doesn't grant the full effect as the value of supporting skills remains absent. Skill spikes would be the other side of this coin offering (temporarily and for a price) a single level increase in a given skill. This will not only allow players the chance to test out new fits and ideas (even after the live launch) but prevents abuse by limiting use to a timed single slot augmentation. When combined with a full range of militia gear and stronger/more diverse full spectrum new player experience Dust can 'have it's cake and eat it too' keeping all choices lasting and their implications persistent while at the same time not shortchanging players who are either new to the game or trying something new with their Dust gaming. [Note: Even if skill spikes and clusters are slated to be something else I would encourage CCP to consider the ideas above as possible game additions. Their possible value for helping new players and keeping the game fresh for vets shouldn't be undersold] Rather than continue this tug of war over when/how/how much to "reinvent the wheel" with regards to Dust and skill point (re)allocation lets build on trends and features already within game in ways that accomplish a resolution for the same concerns that raised this topic in the first place. Cheers, Cross
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 598	Posted - 2013.03.22 04:30:00 - [123] - Quote Soozu wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63890&find=unread Here is what that says..... We have been getting a lot of questions about Skill Point resets lately. In order to help everyone find this information, here is CCP's official stance on resetting skill points. We currently have no plans to reset your characters' skill points to a state where they are equivalent to a newly created character, barring something catastrophic. ...... that is not what we're discussing here at all. [ I did the underlining of what you seemed to have missed. ] In fact, by posting this and excluding the respec, to me suggests they are still considering / planning it. And most likely reading this thread for suggestions and insights. That can be traced back to an extinct mechanic in eve that allowed you to train particular skills to train a group of skill faster, it was replaced with one based on implants. I noticed that but what I inferred is that unless a skill becomes redundant and completely useless. Also I've found an idea I read way back in june or july on a new thread, it fully prevents Fotm switching into the buffed or the still op weapon
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 52	Posted - 2013.03.22 05:36:00 - [124] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: RINON114 wrote: .... Militia gear doesn't exist for all items in the game and so your argument for that is invalid. Either we get more militia fits or we can get some form of reset to try out some new stuff.... Yea but most stuff you can try, you can run as a medic, assault, sniper, drive a tank, drive a car, get a plane, The only nonmilitia thing I saw was a heavy, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't really see what you are missing. I haven't checked recently but last time I did there was no militia laser rifle or mass driver. There should be militia versions of higher grade things too like the triage nanohive but just a super nerfed version, even the different AR or HMG variants could have militia variants so you don't waste all your SP getting to the proto HMG's to find they are garbage and the level 4's are miles better. The above paragraph is why I think a yearly (personally I feel bi-yearly would be best) respec is better, because adding all of those things would be time consuming and stupid. An SP re-allocation system would be far more efficient and also much less work for CCP.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 52	Posted - 2013.03.22 05:42:00 - [125] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Respecs (the removal of already spent SP which is then placed back into the unallocated SP pool) aren't the proper solution, they're somewhat analogous to taking painkillers for a back or shoulder injury. You alleviate some of the symptoms at the front end while making the overall problems worse in the long run. For much of my analysis on that front see my earlier posts, this one will be focused on solutions which are less 'symptomatic' in nature. The New Player Experience While D514 is still in beta one key aspect of the game which needs testing (and polish) is the new player experience. The first impression, accessibility of the game and the implications of it's many choices. Price adjusting, skill respecs, and many frustrated threads calling "nerf X" or "buff Y" are the children of Dusts steep learning curve. If a player entering the game were greeted by the information needed to make informed decisions than there is no longer any need for those decisions to ever be 'rolled back' because the implications of choice then fall fully upon the user. This information needs to come in forms more interactive and engaging than our current wall of text popups. What gamer who's just downloaded a game the size of dust, and is excited to play it, takes the time to read and absorb so many walls of text? Experience says not very many, combine that with the diverse learning modality people possess and the new player experience is calling out for more videos, more voiced explanations and more PvE style hands on training scenarios, to fully balance out the VARK offerings of Dust. Simply put lets make the game more accessible from the outset, first exposure to Dust should ideally give a player the following sensation easy to learn, difficult to master. My ideas (and those that I've read) are far from the final word when it comes to how we reach that goal but I think it's a mark worth aiming for, and continuing to work on (and what better time to start than the beta?) Some more detailed ideas are presented here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64043&find=unread In addition to that, more directly related to skills I'd like to raise the concept of skill spikes and skill clusters. Now we don't know what these are or whether CCP has already conceptually defined their intended purpose. So my ideas following are theoretical, but lets try to focus on concepts rather than specific terminology. Skill Clusters - EVE has a "remap" usable once every 12 months for free. This remap allows a player to focus the development of skill growth through specialization, gaining a bonus to gains within a specialty while taking penalties to growth in other areas. Introduce "skill clusters" in Dust to provide the same effect, as an example: A player picks up an Armor skill cluster from the market, plugs in that augmentation and now receives a discount on skills related to improving their ability to use and fit armor for the duration of the mod (other skills would during this time cost more to upgrade thus encouraging players to plan ahead while still allowing enhance flexibility for any player wishing to train into a new battlefield role). Skill Spikes - The "try before you buy" augmentation. AUR gear already reduces the character skills required to run a given piece of gear but doesn't grant the full effect as the value of supporting skills remains absent. Skill spikes would be the other side of this coin offering (temporarily and for a price) a single level increase in a given skill. This will not only allow players the chance to test out new fits and ideas (even after the live launch) but prevents abuse by limiting use to a timed single slot augmentation. When combined with a full range of militia gear and stronger/more diverse full spectrum new player experience Dust can 'have it's cake and eat it too' keeping all choices lasting and their implications persistent while at the same time not shortchanging players who are either new to the game or trying something new with their Dust gaming. [Note: Even if skill spikes and clusters are slated to be something else I would encourage CCP to consider the ideas above as possible game additions. Their possible value for helping new players and keeping the game fresh for vets shouldn't be undersold] Rather than continue this tug of war over when/how/how much to "reinvent the wheel" with regards to Dust and skill point (re)allocation lets build on trends and features already within game in ways that accomplish a resolution for the same concerns that raised this topic in the first place. Cheers, Cross OR just this. +9001 this.


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