I'm showing your CCP Draco link as broken?

Persoanally this makes it even easier to spawn camp as the maps are simply not large enough for players to spawn in out of danger.

The result me and my squad move in a circle we get eyes on one new enemy spawning and we zerg and usually the whole team follows us since we all know the ENTIRE enemy team will be there shortly

Given the way players spawn in with the clone appearing prior to mind transfer and our ability to damage them during this initial process we can wipe out clones BEFORE the player has CONTROL.


Im not going to bash this as i applaud the effort. It just needs to factor in map size and player count.

The most notorious map for abuse is manus peak(bowl map/merc events map)

Here once a team is spreads out like a fan around the bowl the rock peak to the North east and the larger two rock formation opposite side.

The algorithms only "safe" spawn is the clearing opposite the bowl to the left if you are facing out from the bowl towards the two rocks where enemies often spawn.

Actually ill use the map coordinates from the feedback page to be more specific.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=48086&find=unread

Team has players positioned at [C/D 3-4; C/D5-6 and D/E 6-7] only safe spawn is E/F 4-6. This is a open clearing and basic a spawn lock that cannot be defeated.


That said it seem Line Harvest and Skim junction maps that have more cover and more playable space this algorithm works better but again we can still move in a circle and zerg an area and cut off escape because once we see one player spawn there we know the whole team is going to spawn there its utterly predictable and can be easily gamed. Where it fails is Manus Peak and Ashland as these maps are much smaller in terms of useable map space and thus easier for a 16 person team to cover.


I for one liked the old setup because even though the spawns were random they were fixed so once you knew where they were you tactical awareness made sure you were covering your flank if you were running and gunning.

Moreover i found if i delayed my return to battle for about 15 seconds it gave the algorithm time to spawn me in a realtively "safer" spawn point. This also held true for me in the beginning as i would wait 30-45 seconds before spawning or until i saw at least a handful of enemy reds before spawning in.

However that works on an individual scale but if everyone did it would still create that initial ambush since everyone is spawning together the algorithm cant use all its variables to adjust for spawns. My solution to the "first spawn" spawn problem of the old algorithm is create is so first spawn is all team spawn together and on the two farthest points on the map. After which let the old spawn mechanic take over, and get the word out it needs 15second to find a proper match. Then test this for a month and see if the result hold true.


Moreover the playerbase needs to get out of the COD mentality of rapid return to combat. The reason clone counts drop so fast is becaue 8-10 people die and they all hit respawn instead of waiting to be revived. IGN comments on the live feed so many QQ about 10second timer on respawn as if its a bad thing. The game should be frantic but theres a different between chicken with its head cut off type of pace and disordered ordered caos pace.

Moreover uplinks can drop respawn time to 5 or less seconds.

My advice CCP is you need to build up your own YouTube channel and starting creating "advanced" features videos that shows how as you progress how the gameplay evolves and the "tools" of the trade that will allow for that. I apoligize for this slightly off topic rant but i feel it all ties together as the primary complaint over ambush spawns comes from players not understanding the system and an overeagerness to return too quickly to combat.

I can't say anything for the spawn mechanics but it terms for CRU/uplinks, i think that a lore friendly solution it having a high rate scanner that will warn you on the spawnin map how close and how many enemies are camping it. maby 10-15 meters for CRU, 5-10 ferr a uplink? I mean it's the damn future. we can have scanners in them things right?

Another issue that may be a factor is vulnerability. Technically, I believe that our body is killable before we can even see on the field, let alone move. This could be a client server latency issue, but I don't think so. I don't know if these are intended mechanics, but it is frustrating that we can't move until 2-3 seconds after we are actually vulnerable.

In Eve when you spawn in through a gate, you actually can't be targetted (or target others) for a few seconds. I'm wondering if we could either make us unable to kill/be killed for a second or two after we spawn. As fun as it is to camp a CRU and kill the half materialized bodies before it has a chance to turn, it might be more fair to do it some other way. Lore wise...not sure this would make sense though.

Dear players,

During todayGÇÖs downtime we applied a hotfix that improved spawn mechanics and added new spawn locations for Ambush game mode with biomass or communication outposts on maps. However, our job is far from over. We are looking for your feedback on this new system for these specific types of maps and we are constantly working on expanding and improving this system to the entire ambush game mode, as stated by CCP Draco right here.

Thank you for your cooperation and feedback, we are looking forward to it!

Dear players,

During todayGÇÖs downtime we applied a hotfix that improved spawn mechanics and added new spawn locations for Ambush game mode with biomass or communication outposts on maps. However, our job is far from over. We are looking for your feedback on this new system for these specific types of maps and we are constantly working on expanding and improving this system to the entire ambush game mode, as stated by CCP Draco right here.

Thank you for your cooperation and feedback, we are looking forward to it!

I posted this in another thread, but it really belongs here:

There seems to be too much weight being put on spawning near squad/teammates. So much so, that it completely overwhelms the piece of the formula that is supposed to take into account enemy infantry, vehicle and installation proximities. ...

I really think if the CCP Devs can translate those priorities into the proper weightings in the spawn point formula, the system will work great.

So far the new system is an improvement over the old. However the problems that others have pointed out are likely going to get worse (not better) as more players learn to take advantage of them.

The biggest problem is the spawn cluster scenario where one team is forced into a small area and constantly respawning on each other. The expression "like shooting fish in a barrel" comes to mind here. Also the new behavior of spawning players into the largest group of friendlies makes Precision Strikes all the more deadly.

I agree with others that less emphasis needs to be made on spawning players next to team mates and more on keeping us spread out and away from reds on spawn. Having to regroup after spawning in is not a bad thing. If any attempts are to be made as far as spawning us close to players it should only be near squad members.

"The squad leader can find a "safe" place, for their squad members to spawn. Maybe as an addition to the new spawn system?

That will open new tactical options, and make Ambush more appealing to Corporations."

I posted this in here:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61904&find=unread

As a response to dazlb72 idea of "spawn on my squad leader". I think i may also work as possible feedback.

This can be taken from Battlefield if you played it basically wherever the squad leader is your squad mates can spawn on you granted there is room and if they are alive, plus you are able to see in a 3rd person perspective to get an idea whether or not its a good idea to spawn on them..

I personally don't like the new system, to the point of avoiding ambushes because of it. A raspberry respawned in front of me, then another 4 dropped in next to him. Happens all the time now.

The current spawn arrangement is very 1995. Spawning into heavily camped areas with no spawn protection at all, in a game where losses cost you currency, is just terrible, un-fun design.

Played a few random pugs tonight. First game, joined a team losing badly. Spawn was camped, died in under a second. Tried a heavy for greater resilience, died in under a second. Quit the game because the only winning move was not to play.

Joined a second game, enemy spawned in an elevated position overlooking our spawn, and our spawn was locked down in under a minute. Two deaths and quitting the game was the only winning move again unless I wanted to donate isk.

Third game, joined another losing game in progress where our spawn was locked down. Quit again.

Due to the time it takes to load/unload and join games this was like 15 minutes of complete not-fun that I guarantee you would turn off most players.

The vulnerability of spawns further snowballs because the players racking up kills then call down orbital strikes on the spawn areas, and the 'rich get richer' so to speak.

Even Doom had a spawn-farthest flag. Need to make this system way more modern if you hope to be competitive.

I have an old idea but it could improve spawning even further. Instead of appearing outside of the CRU, it could be redesigned for us to spawn inside it. The doorway will have an impenetrable shield that keeps out players from the outside and blocks shots from players inside but lets them get out of the CRU.

The current spawn arrangement is very 1995. Spawning into heavily camped areas with no spawn protection at all, in a game where losses cost you currency, is just terrible, un-fun design.

Played a few random pugs tonight. First game, joined a team losing badly. Spawn was camped, died in under a second. Tried a heavy for greater resilience, died in under a second. Quit the game because the only winning move was not to play.

Joined a second game, enemy spawned in an elevated position overlooking our spawn, and our spawn was locked down in under a minute. Two deaths and quitting the game was the only winning move again unless I wanted to donate isk.

Third game, joined another losing game in progress where our spawn was locked down. Quit again.

Due to the time it takes to load/unload and join games this was like 15 minutes of complete not-fun that I guarantee you would turn off most players.

The vulnerability of spawns further snowballs because the players racking up kills then call down orbital strikes on the spawn areas, and the 'rich get richer' so to speak.

Even Doom had a spawn-farthest flag. Need to make this system way more modern if you hope to be competitive.

...

Since we're "dropping in" (it's right in the intro-movie), let us decide where to spawn.

...

Definitely a MASSIVE improvement, but needs work.

The system is good, but how things are weighted needs to change.

Order of importance should be Enemy vehicle > Enemy infantry = Squad vehicle > Friendly vehicle = Squadmate > Teammate.

Squadmates are already prioritised over other teammates - good move, that one. But it doesn't seem to weigh the threat of enemy proximity to the spawn location as having nearly enough importance. It's WAY too easy to use the default spawn and appear in the middle of a killing field where the entire enemy team has a line on where you and all your teammates are showing up. It's way too easy to take advantage of this scenario when the enemy team gets stuck in this situation. Also, I think there should be a cap on how much weight allies can provide in favour of a particular spawn location, but the same should NOT be true for enemies. Teammates outnumbering the enemy doesn't really make an area safe, because a LOT of players know to look out for a player who's mid-spawn for an easy kill.

Just spawned at the start of a match surrounded by nothing but enemies.

spwned in air - wtf ?