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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Croned
Crysx
0
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Posted - 2013.03.16 22:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Why don't people just choose where they spawn? If the goal is realism, then I would think that if clones can be randomly spawned anywhere on the battlefield, then they can also select anywhere to spawn. With that kind of system, people could decide whether to spawn in saftey or right in the middle of the action. At least they'd know what they'd be going into and could *hopefully* be prepared. Spawn kills would be the fault of the person spawning. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.03.17 18:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
Maybe, when you spawn, you have some sort of energy field around you that protects you, but keeps you from shooting. Not for long, just so you can get your bearings |
scourge phoenix
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
0
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Posted - 2013.03.21 06:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
The current spawn arrangement is very 1995. Spawning into heavily camped areas with no spawn protection at all, in a game where losses cost you currency, is just terrible, un-fun design.
Played a few random pugs tonight. First game, joined a team losing badly. Spawn was camped, died in under a second. Tried a heavy for greater resilience, died in under a second. Quit the game because the only winning move was not to play.
Joined a second game, enemy spawned in an elevated position overlooking our spawn, and our spawn was locked down in under a minute. Two deaths and quitting the game was the only winning move again unless I wanted to donate isk.
Third game, joined another losing game in progress where our spawn was locked down. Quit again.
Due to the time it takes to load/unload and join games this was like 15 minutes of complete not-fun that I guarantee you would turn off most players.
The vulnerability of spawns further snowballs because the players racking up kills then call down orbital strikes on the spawn areas, and the 'rich get richer' so to speak.
Even Doom had a spawn-farthest flag. Need to make this system way more modern if you hope to be competitive. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
6
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Posted - 2013.03.21 20:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
I haven't had any matches where it was just spawn hose and thats it, but more then a few times I get my face shot off before I can even move. It still needs work. I think maybe rebalancing it to not allowing you to spawn within like 30-50m of an enemy and not in an enemies LOS might work, won't prevent Grenade throwing spawn kills, but at least then you have a chance. |
Terry Webber
Gothic Wars Consortium
55
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Posted - 2013.03.22 02:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
I have an old idea but it could improve spawning even further. Instead of appearing outside of the CRU, it could be redesigned for us to spawn inside it. The doorway will have an impenetrable shield that keeps out players from the outside and blocks shots from players inside but lets them get out of the CRU. |
Seb Voodoo
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.24 12:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
scourge phoenix wrote:The current spawn arrangement is very 1995. Spawning into heavily camped areas with no spawn protection at all, in a game where losses cost you currency, is just terrible, un-fun design.
Played a few random pugs tonight. First game, joined a team losing badly. Spawn was camped, died in under a second. Tried a heavy for greater resilience, died in under a second. Quit the game because the only winning move was not to play.
Joined a second game, enemy spawned in an elevated position overlooking our spawn, and our spawn was locked down in under a minute. Two deaths and quitting the game was the only winning move again unless I wanted to donate isk.
Third game, joined another losing game in progress where our spawn was locked down. Quit again.
Due to the time it takes to load/unload and join games this was like 15 minutes of complete not-fun that I guarantee you would turn off most players.
The vulnerability of spawns further snowballs because the players racking up kills then call down orbital strikes on the spawn areas, and the 'rich get richer' so to speak.
Even Doom had a spawn-farthest flag. Need to make this system way more modern if you hope to be competitive.
100% agree with this guy i have been on both sides of this today for instance one game i was spawned right in front of 3 reds who all opened fire before i could move repeat 3 times each time unable to select an alt spawn point !! this will def put new players off |
Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.03.26 02:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44353&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65741&find=unread
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NextDark Knight
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.03.27 00:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:I have an old idea but it could improve spawning even further. Instead of appearing outside of the CRU, it could be redesigned for us to spawn inside it. The doorway will have an impenetrable shield that keeps out players from the outside and blocks shots from players inside but lets them get out of the CRU.
If you spawn into a CRU you can wormhole portal X distance from the CRU via the map.
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Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2013.03.27 04:13:00 -
[69] - Quote
New spawn system works for Ambush OMS but not for regular Ambush,iv been happy in OMS but as soon as i accident play a reg ambush game, boom spawn trapping everywhere,enemy right on top of you,instant rage,not coming back.
CCP you might as well kill off reg ambush is a cluster**** of a mode compared to the other variant. |
Brasidas Kriegen
The Southern Legion
0
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Posted - 2013.03.28 07:08:00 -
[70] - Quote
I think the cloaking option is one of the better ones, just as used in EVE when entering a new system. It gives you a second to adjust and take in your surroundings, before you are vulnerable. Any movement, or use of any module will make you visible. Far too often I have been killed either before I have had a chance to see anything/control anything, or am so far gone by the time I can move etc that I don't get a chance to fight back or escape. I think a moment to get your bearings can go a long way to reducing the risk of being spawn killed; even if it was something as simple as a zoomed in look above the point you are choosing to spawn at, such as a top down view that isn't based on scanning but shows you what is ACTUALLY there. Other options include:
- Temporary invulnerability; though probably should always be removed at movement/activation of module
- Scanners at spawn points, perhaps of a pulse type like the recon devices in Planetside 2
- The 'spawn drop' via cloaked dropships or from orbit etc. Though I always liked the idea of a kind of 'pod launch' from the MCCs
- Internal spawn in CRUs - where the CRU is a sort of 'bunker' where players safely spawn inside and can move out from there.
Personally I like the idea of a temporary cloak coupled with a scanner pulsing at the spawn location, though the scanner and its results should only be visible when you have selected that spawn location. Yes, people could "pulse" a spawn location for enemies and relay that information to teammates, but I think that a greater risk when hacking in exchange for greater safety when spawning is a small price to pay.
I have spawn killed, and been spawn killed. It is annoying (to say the least) in any game, but in a game where every death has consequences, both for your team and for yourself (unless you only run all BPOs).
I feel the new system was an improvement but as it was mentioned earlier, it is currently a big issue on some maps, particularly Manu's Peak. A suggestion always offered is "bigger maps" but I would argue that it should be "scalable maps" that increase in size (by reducing the red zone) according to player numbers. That may be too difficult to implement, but I have played too many games where there are only a handful of players either for the entire game, or at least most of it, where fights are few and far between - this often ends with people camping spots as snipers or simply not spawning, making it worse. This could be a problem only experienced in Asia though; I am in Australia so games not being full is something I have been used to, although it has been getting a lot better recently. |
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Valkreena Haederox
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Popped into an Ambush match a few minutes ago. Three times in a row, I used the default spawn and was immediately gunned down from the rear by a waiting player, with no chance to even attempt to retaliate.
Not sure what the spawn mechanics are, but they ain't workin. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire
57
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Posted - 2013.03.30 01:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
Imo the spawn points take to long to resest now, you see quite a few blue dots being farmed before the spawn point shifts to a new location, in fact quite frequently their will be tons of red dots around before the spawn locations switch up.
Imo the number of blue dots around should not be as much weight in the spawn point calculation, as the number of red dots around, and also, lower the threshold for how long it takes to change it up.
if their is 2 blue dots surrounded by 9 red dots, that is not a good spawn location. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
14
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Posted - 2013.03.31 17:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
So the random spawn rather than link spawn is inoperable. I thought that it was awful fishy that in attempting to spawn away from the link I would only succeed in getting as much as about a dozen paces away.
I do enjoy showing up about a dozen places away from a squad member rather than opposite side of the map though, leads to more teamwork. The only drawback to the current spawns that I can see is the often quickly divided battle lines with no man's land in between. This gives the upper hand to sniper class characters and other people who can hit the other side of the map.
On a side note, for those of you still worried about your "triangle marker" giving your spawn in location away, consider training the relevant skills that decrease your signature radius, I think more info can be found in the Rookie Training Grounds and also in you NeoCom under skills. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
132
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Posted - 2013.04.06 06:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
scourge phoenix wrote:The current spawn arrangement is very 1995. Spawning into heavily camped areas with no spawn protection at all, in a game where losses cost you currency, is just terrible, un-fun design.
Played a few random pugs tonight. First game, joined a team losing badly. Spawn was camped, died in under a second. Tried a heavy for greater resilience, died in under a second. Quit the game because the only winning move was not to play.
Joined a second game, enemy spawned in an elevated position overlooking our spawn, and our spawn was locked down in under a minute. Two deaths and quitting the game was the only winning move again unless I wanted to donate isk.
Third game, joined another losing game in progress where our spawn was locked down. Quit again.
Due to the time it takes to load/unload and join games this was like 15 minutes of complete not-fun that I guarantee you would turn off most players.
The vulnerability of spawns further snowballs because the players racking up kills then call down orbital strikes on the spawn areas, and the 'rich get richer' so to speak.
Even Doom had a spawn-farthest flag. Need to make this system way more modern if you hope to be competitive.
+1
This, so much this.
I've been on both sides of this equation.
Since we're "dropping in" (it's right in the intro-movie), let us decide where to spawn. Hell even then, there's trouble.
How about just opening the blasted Ambush maps back up? The ultra-tight redzone causes half of these problems anyway.
Experienced players know where spawns generally happen, even with the new system. Just get a position, and shoot it with an AR or a LR.
If you got rid of the redzone in Ambush, people wouldn't be in range for this kind of camping to occur. A 'stream of a million profanities and curses' at the 'CCP God' that implemented the tighter red zone. I will forever shake my fists at you until you remove it, and stop this camping from continuing. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
719
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Posted - 2013.04.06 15:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
Grouped spawn is still leading to spawn death traps. I do not want to have to always carry my own personal drop uplink. But when the opposite team is dominating a match of Ambush (either OMS or regular) the losing team can get pushed into a corner of the map and there is really noting you can do.
Sometimes I just look at a map where seven eights of the available space to fight on is empty and there is just a big blob of blues surrounded by an arc or red and I just want to get the hell out of there. But I can't.
If the game is going to continue with random spawns they need to be much more dynamic, offer both good grouping, but not to the point where stronger opponents can exploit that grouping for easy kills.
Also, spawning should somehow be aware of direction of enemy fire. THere are a number of spawn points where if your team is grouped up behind cover, you will spawn near them but in front of cover. Right in the line of enemy fire.
Beyond that, spawning is not consistent with lore or common sense military tactics. There is no technology available in or explanation that I have been able to think of or have ever heard of that can explain how we are able to just randomly appear on the map.
And if you were trying to run a military campaign you would never design a means of getting your troops to the fight that would just spew them into the fight like the current spawning mechanics. |
Hazzah Manacella
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.06 15:45:00 -
[76] - Quote
Spawn camping is killing the fun in this game for me. I am a EVE online player and wanted to have a different type of FPS to play beside's COD/etc.
One thing from comparing other FPS's to Dust is spawn camping is much worse than any FPS I have ever played to be honest, and when experience players get on (like in the evenings, or weekends) it's even worse because they know all the spawns.
Well I made a fit just so I can drop links for people to spawn at away from the normal spawn location but of course the fit is gimped because of the high power cost of links.
I agree the default location needs to be away from enemy's period. I would rather wait 5-10 seconds while the server finds a safe spot away from enemy's and I will spend another 10-30 seconds running to battle just so I have a fighting chance. But even this has the problem that long range weapons (sniper/laser/AR) will just camp in the flanks of this spot and when you try to get in range of the battle you will get taken out before you can get away from spawn area and to cover.
A two-fold solution would be to make it so there is areas of the map that are spawn sites which can't be fired from (meaning snipers/LR/AR's couldn't use it as a spot to camp the battle field while not being hit) either through slops you can't go up, or high walls. People would still get killed from the exit points but at least I could leave from say 2-3 points and make camping tougher.
Another things that needs to be done is considerably drop the cpu/pg cost of drop links so every fit can put them on easily. If I have to lose 2 slots (one to a PG enhancement, and another for the link) I don't feel incentives to use a drop link accept at the start of a match and when it looks like a spawn camp is about to happen.
When one team runs out of clones with the other having 50-60 clones or more there is a major problem with spawning in the game. Spawning makes EVERY weapon OP when your stuck spawning in the line of fire before you can get your bearings. Please fix. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
719
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Posted - 2013.04.06 15:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:
...
Since we're "dropping in" (it's right in the intro-movie), let us decide where to spawn.
...
It is more like we are being beamed in like original Star Trek. There is a slight shimmer of an outline that gives your opponent plenty of advanced notice that you are going to appear, and then you materialize out of thin air.
I have seen it suggested that we get a spawn mid air option. That could be fun if there was drop animation instead of a timer. But it could get old after a while. And if players dropped in cloaked (sort of like the RDVs it might alleviate some of problems) but not all. |
Rigor Mordis
Imperial Populicide Legion
11
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Posted - 2013.04.10 14:37:00 -
[78] - Quote
How bout a spawn damage delay? 2-2.5 seconds where one cannot take nor deal any damage.
Lets move the MCC deeper into the redzone and in good strategic insertion spots.
Spawning dead at the cost of a fit is lame. The spawn camper likely is going to win the shootout 9 times out of ten due to the fact that he has the better toys. At least with a delay, a spawn could possibly take cover, get a grenade out, or get a lock on or a charge.
Also, the MCCs for either side on the current maps are not in very secure places and not all maps have a secure secondary insertion point. With the size that the maps really are, I think the structure could afford to put some more space between one and his enemy that is waiting at, or with sights on, the redline.
I think if both of these things were implemented it would add some balance to the basic battle dynamic.
The ambush spawn are a lot better but could still be improved. The 'clustering' in ambush is a lose/tie situation. While clustering spawns together provides some support, because the inevitable is being delayed, the cluster keeps happening in the same spot hence the enemy has the location pinpointed and surrounded within seconds.
Even when the cluster finally moves (due to mass murder), the first clone spotted gives away the position of the entire team. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
451
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Posted - 2013.04.12 09:42:00 -
[79] - Quote
Basically, if your team get's surrounded, you will continually spawn back in still surrounded until all of the surrounded allies in that area are killed off. This is worse than random spawning since at least when random spawning it gives you a CHANCE to spawn safely.
My suggestion? Make people spawn only in places out of the line of sight of enemies or in the LOS of as few enemies as possible. In addition, have the system cross reference that info with allied deaths and if an ally has died within 10m of that position in the last 10 seconds, immediately shift to another spawn. |
General Sideboob
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2013.04.12 19:03:00 -
[80] - Quote
It seems to me that FPS games have already solved this. In MW3, if you are getting spawn killed, the game eventually moves the spawn away from the largest collection of enemies.
I would be curious to see if you think that could be done here. It seems like a no-brainer to me. |
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I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
209
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Posted - 2013.04.12 20:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Please make the priority for the spawns to be near your allies less than the priority to spawn away from the enemy.
We have HUGE maps, this shouldn't be a problem. Basically, if there are three or more enemies within a certain radius of a spawn, that spawn becomes deactivated.
This would also solve the problem with group spawning. I'm tired of killing 4 or 5 enemies only to have them keep spawning next to each other and keep advancing on my position. Killing a group of enemies only to have them reappear 2 seconds later in the same spot is a BAD MECHANIC.
An even easier solution would be to get rid of the spawn mechanic altogether and just have tactical insertion spawns like we do in skirmish at the beginning. Having a bunch of those blue circles in different points on the battlefield would be great as a secondary option. Expaning the redzone on certain maps to include the visible cover that is present would also help. |
JuJu Man
The Annihilation Wave
0
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Posted - 2013.04.18 10:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Random spawning is one of the few things in this game which annoys me. The fact you spawn in the midst of red dots so frequently suggests it's not exactly that random. I'd like to see the game spawn you close to you squad members first, like BF3 for example, and then close to blue dots not being surrounded.
Hope they do fix it in uprising cos it's a right waste of ISK when it spawns you in the middle of the entire red team. |
Biven Gumbo
DUST University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2013.04.19 14:54:00 -
[83] - Quote
Obviously, some responsibility rests on the team. They should be dropping spawn beacons around the map to provide many options. On most Ambush maps, I never see more than one or two beacons. I know that isn't a sexy thing to carry, but it would solve some of the problem. A team should never have fewer than two options. I always spawn in with a beacon and hide it with the first wave. Once it is used, I drop another.
On the flip side, maybe CCP could show all enemies around the "Default Drop Zone". That way I can tell from the MMC whether or not I'm going to get roasted. Then I can wait a sec before I hit that button. The way it is, I am just guessing.
This morning I watched two enemies sit next to a beacon and pick off my team as we spawned. Not honorable (in my opinion) but a valid tactic that is allowed by the mechanics. Irritating, but not illegal.
My best suggestion is to give each team a somewhat defendable spawn point and let them go. Sometimes teams are going to get locked down, but that is just the nature of the beast. Give it a hot zone that the enemy can shoot into, but not rush. That gives the other team a chance to rally and shoot their way out. If they don't, too bad.
It doesn't matter what is put in, someone will figure out a way to exploit it. |
Jojo Lion
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.04.20 15:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Just spawned at the start of a match surrounded by nothing but enemies. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2627
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Posted - 2013.04.27 17:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Definitely a MASSIVE improvement, but needs work.
The system is good, but how things are weighted needs to change.
Order of importance should be Enemy vehicle > Enemy infantry = Squad vehicle > Friendly vehicle = Squadmate > Teammate.
Squadmates are already prioritised over other teammates - good move, that one. But it doesn't seem to weigh the threat of enemy proximity to the spawn location as having nearly enough importance. It's WAY too easy to use the default spawn and appear in the middle of a killing field where the entire enemy team has a line on where you and all your teammates are showing up. It's way too easy to take advantage of this scenario when the enemy team gets stuck in this situation. Also, I think there should be a cap on how much weight allies can provide in favour of a particular spawn location, but the same should NOT be true for enemies. Teammates outnumbering the enemy doesn't really make an area safe, because a LOT of players know to look out for a player who's mid-spawn for an easy kill. The more I play, the more confident I am in this assessment of the situation.
Although I have added in squad vehicles now, because I forgot to list that previously. |
Kieret L'Ren
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.28 22:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
Jojo Lion wrote:Just spawned at the start of a match surrounded by nothing but enemies.
Yeh, I think this needs to be addressed still, and it's probably the easiest aspect to tackle out of the lot. Played quite a few games today and at least two or three of those I must have spawned pretty much right in the sights of an enemy player, right at the start of the battle (80/80 clones). Why isn't the field of battle just analysed for two spawn locations without any landmarks, and each team deployed within those locations? It's such an obvious point, apologies if it's been raised already.
Unless of course random starting locations are the best way to do it, since it gives both teams a fair chance at key areas of the map. But there should at least be a radius of non-spawning around each spawn. Again, apologies if that point has already been beaten to death. |
DocNoah
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.30 06:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
Started playing about 3 days ago and I dont really notice any anti spawn camping mechanics in regular Ambush seeing as everyone gets pushed into one small area that can easily be spawn camped.
I dont agree with the spawn invulnerability as it can be frustrating for the offensive team to shoot a target in their line of sight and do 0 damage. My suggestion would be to extend the redline to cover each team's individual main spawn while placing cover from direct fire at the front of the spawn. Enemy team can still technically "spawn camp", except now they cant directly fire at fresh spawners which I think is fair for both sides. Cover lets the spawn camped team recuperate and think of a way to fight back or slowly open up a path of escape.
I do like CCPs approach on a more dynamic spawning system and I think Battlefield games had it right in that you can spawn on beacons and on squad leaders although it needs tweaking so enemies dont find themselves going 1v1 with someone and then suddenly finding themselves facing off against 3 fresh spawners.
Only problems I see with above mentioned: -Small maps will seem even smaller with redlines closing off the main spawns (can easily be remedied by opening up the map a little and adding a few stuff to make it a suitable "main spawn". No one can complain about bigger maps right?) -Alienation of those not in a squads (I believe I read somewhere about an automatic squad system?) -End of CCPs ambitions on a unique dynamic spawning system where people spawn and fight together (which is why most people probably defend the current system, because its still a work in progress, and I fully agree that we should wait to see the finished product)
Some other suggestions that I feel is worth mentioning but will probably cause more problems than fix: -Smoke grenades -Team wipe game over, game ends prematurely if the entire team is dead at the same time and no one chooses to spawn. No more unnecessary spawning into a death trap to end the game. Aggresive team can agree they were overwhelming, defensive team can agree they lost badly and continuing the fight would be pointless. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2721
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Just had a game where I had 2 squadmates in a corner, hiding.
The game kept spawning me next to them, out in the open, free target for the ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM THAT WERE CAMPING MY SQUADMATES WITH A TANK.
I'd say they still need to tweak this. |
Lycuo
On The Brink CRONOS.
7
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:26:00 -
[89] - Quote
Im still feeling as if i am spawning in a "red spawn" too much... just figured i would throw that out there |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
182
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Posted - 2013.05.13 12:20:00 -
[90] - Quote
I dont think the spawn system works yet. the following happens sometimes: a teammates and I spawned directly in the enemy spawn spot while the rest of my team spawned somewhere else |
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