I'm not sure if it would make it a duplicate, but there was a thread already to vote whether or not HMGs are OP.
The votes were by far in favor of saying it's either fine or needs very small tweaks.

All it needs is a range tweak, i am shooting too far with only sharpshooter 3.

FIRST: If this is a duplicate, please lock and let it die. I tried looking and didn't find any other threads like this one.

So it's pretty obvious that there are a growing population of players that feel the HMG is OP. My question is this: What, in your eyes, makes the HMG OP?

I also made this thread as a "central hub" of sorts for the HMG discussion. I'm curious to see what the opposite end of the barrel thinks.

Please keep the discussion civil. (wishful thinking, I know)

the way this keeps going, I see HMGs being nerf'd into uselessness with HMGs that have slightly better range than SMGs. Looking forward to learning AR skills then.

This is what i'd like to avoid. I don't really feel like there is anything that needs to be done to the HMGs. I get put down enough to balance out the amount people i'm putting down. I play the heavy role like I think it should be played (i.e. tight areas, try not to solo, usually am running with good support, try and get a beat on people who aren't paying attention to me, etc etc).

It has too much range and outdamages all the other automatic weapons at just about every range. People keep insisting that the counter is to keep your distance but once you get to the range where heavies aren't able to hit you so hard, your AR will be dealing way too little damage to drop them before they can find cover. Heavies already have a massive health advantage. The massive stopping power advantage is overdoing it.

Giving the AR a significant range boost could be one way of solving this problem. Otherwise the HMG needs to be looked at.

no one complains about this crap in TF2

You've never even laid hands on the HMG, have you?

Kills are unsatisfying (even more so than they are normally) and feel unearned (again even more so than normally, Dust has a big problem with getting gunfights to be fair).

TF2 is perfection in game form mate. all complaints are simple anti-valve demons from Microsoft.

Sound like you need to take a break or start fighting you on corp members if you're not feeling challenged enough.

Or CCP could tweak the skillbook system so there isn't such a huge artificial skill gap between vets and newbies so pubs stop being such a giant snoozefest.

It'd be nice if there we're "ranked" match making, so you'd get put up against people around your skill level.

I have and it gets boring to use real quick. Kills are unsatisfying (even more so than they are normally) and feel unearned (again even more so than normally, Dust has a big problem with getting gunfights to be fair).

A gek with two complex damage mods rips my heavy in two before I can drop them and I can get one shotted by a moded shotgun, so the HMG is fine, just the way it is.

the HMG needs a spool up time, no reason for them to be able to shoot soon as they touch the trigger, all Heavy weapons should basically need to be charged.

the spread is too tight, HMGs should be for suppressing not sniping them like a normal AR.

the HMG needs a spool up time, no reason for them to be able to shoot soon as they touch the trigger, all Heavy weapons should basically need to be charged.

the spread is too tight, HMGs should be for suppressing not sniping them like a normal AR.

and decrease the 'effective' range while maintaining current hit range (similar to how lasers are good at long range but suck awful at short)

the HMG needs a spool up time, no reason for them to be able to shoot soon as they touch the trigger, all Heavy weapons should basically need to be charged.

the spread is too tight, HMGs should be for suppressing not sniping them like a normal AR.

My favorite whine about HMGs is the no spool up whine, delicious CoD ignorance fueled whine.

On a side note, it's bothersome that people would rather whine at CCP to balance the game towards them instead of trying to figure out how to beat what's killing them.

Wait until the caldari have their version... That will have a spool up time before it starts blapping folks and vehicles alike.

Also the HMGs that kill you are proto because HMGs are so broken that its not worth running anything less then proto. just wait till the duvolle or Balac's are in common use, HMGs will be useless.

FIRST: If this is a duplicate, please lock and let it die. I tried looking and didn't find any other threads like this one.

So it's pretty obvious that there are a growing population of players that feel the HMG is OP. My question is this: What, in your eyes, makes the HMG OP?

I also made this thread as a "central hub" of sorts for the HMG discussion. I'm curious to see what the opposite end of the barrel thinks.

Please keep the discussion civil. (wishful thinking, I know)

TF2 is perfection in game form mate. all complaints are simple anti-valve demons from Microsoft.

what TF2 stand for?

Wait until the caldari have their version... That will have a spool up time before it starts blapping folks and vehicles alike.

If a heavy is so op, why is by large more people roll assault suits with AR. and still play other suits?

If it was the I win button, I would expect at least 50% heavy, and not the paltry 25% or less

Its not like it takes a insane amount of investment, you generally will always win back more money than invested in played right using type 2 and a second rate minigun.

Quote:

Of course if you want to go realy ghetto (and can't wait) use the BPO heavy sui

t, if it is realy just gun that makes it insanely good you will be a god each match.

If a heavy is so op, why is by large more people roll assault suits with AR. and still play other suits?

If it was the I win button, I would expect at least 50% heavy, and not the paltry 25% or less

Its not like it takes a insane amount of investment, you generally will always win back more money than invested in played right using type 2 and a second rate minigun.

Of course if you want to go realy ghetto (and can't wait) use the BPO heavy suit, if it is realy just gun that makes it insanely good you will be a god each match.

increase damage and spread. it should melt all at close range but have to work for its kills in the long range(AR should win past its optimal) tho I wouldnt mind seeing the spray reduce to less then what it is now in the last 50-100 rounds.

Also the HMGs that kill you are proto because HMGs are so broken that its not worth running anything less then proto. just wait till the duvolle or Balac's are in common use, HMGs will be useless.

Balance is not about everyone being equal, it's about everyone being good where they're supposed to be. It's about checks and balances. Hopefully it's also about involving counter play more than straight up dps measurements under "optimal" circumstances (Doesn't it sound better that your skill in controlling circumstances lead to your victory in spite of the dps measurements?)

I think the HMG is currently doing it's job well. They are tanky, they have lots of bullets, and they can chew down almost any target in an instant.

Some people's comments are saying "don't stand still," and at the same time saying "don't run." It's kinda funny. This type of attitude and conflicting advisement makes me feel maybe the hmd does need tweaking... But I'm not going to say for sure.

Definite No -

Do NOT add spool time. This does not exist in reality. The bullets are fired as soon as the barrel starts spinning. They could have it's RoF start slower and gain over time... But I don't think that is the best way to tackle this problem anyway.

Do -

Look at it's maximum effective range. This game seems to play around maximum effective range a lot, and this is a variable that a player should be able to have some control over (both the heavy and the ar). Giving the players this method adds some play and counter play.

This prolly needs to be done for all weapons though, not just the HMG. And really, for being a BETA, I would assume ccp is already monitoring balance and tweaking things behind the scenes to bring the game into the balance they want for us. If they aren't, then this game is already dead lol XD

HMG heavy here (but I play other classes with alt chars). The reason you see me near the top of the WP list at the end with 14/1 K/D is that you don't know how to play against me. You can easily figure out the things you don't want to do against a HMG heavy by playing one for a while. But I'm just going to assume you're all too thick to figure it out yourselves.

So here's some basics going against a HMG heavy:

* When you see a HMG heavy back out around a corner, don't follow him. There's a slaughter waiting to happen behind there, you just don't know it yet. I'd estimate this is about 75% of all my HMG kills. I'm sharing this because you already know it by experience, you're just too thick to learn it, so I can keep doing it.

* In general, if you see a HMG heavy, you should be moving away from him, not towards him. Unless you're wielding a short range weapon, like a shotgun. Hint: ARs are not a short range weapon.

* If you're against a HMG heavy and you go in the middle of an open field and run and bounce around like a champion, you will die. But that's true against any weapon class.

* If you want to kill a HMG heavy, shoot at him from behind. It takes forever to turn around in that fat suit. But remember, don't close up on him, even from behind, if your weapon doesn't require point blanc range. Those idiots who think they can play hide and seek an inch behind my back are the rest 25% of my HMG kills. Many of them seem to be wielding a perfectly good AR that could finish me off from good distance without all that sneaking around.

FIRST: If this is a duplicate, please lock and let it die. I tried looking and didn't find any other threads like this one.

So it's pretty obvious that there are a growing population of players that feel the HMG is OP. My question is this: What, in your eyes, makes the HMG OP?

I also made this thread as a "central hub" of sorts for the HMG discussion. I'm curious to see what the opposite end of the barrel thinks.

Please keep the discussion civil. (wishful thinking, I know)

KD of 14? How many kills? That's higher than any of the heavies I know. Are you talking about 14/1 in a single match?

HMG heavy here (but I play other classes with alt chars). The reason you see me near the top of the WP list at the end with 14/1 K/D is that you don't know how to play against me. You can easily figure out the things you don't want to do against a HMG heavy by playing one for a while. But I'm just going to assume you're all too thick to figure it out yourselves.

So here's some basics going against a HMG heavy:

* When you see a HMG heavy back out around a corner, don't follow him. There's a slaughter waiting to happen behind there, you just don't know it yet. I'd estimate this is about 75% of all my HMG kills. I'm sharing this because you already know it by experience, you're just too thick to learn it, so I can keep doing it.

* In general, if you see a HMG heavy, you should be moving away from him, not towards him. Unless you're wielding a short range weapon, like a shotgun. Hint: ARs are not a short range weapon.

* If you're against a HMG heavy and you go in the middle of an open field and run and bounce around like a champion, you will die. But that's true against any weapon class.

* If you want to kill a HMG heavy, shoot at him from behind. It takes forever to turn around in that fat suit. But remember, don't close up on him, even from behind, if your weapon doesn't require point blanc range. Those idiots who think they can play hide and seek an inch behind my back are the rest 25% of my HMG kills. Many of them seem to be wielding a perfectly good AR that could finish me off from good distance without all that sneaking around.

Actually just to be 100% fair, the Broadside was broken in an unfair way during Precursor and most of Codex. It did 19.2 dmg (same as the Gaston does now) with a CPU requirement of only 72 (it was in the 70s...don't remember exactly) which was way less than the Boundless.

True but I was using two complex sidearm damage mods for lots of extra damage and it was a single press of R1 and before the heavy even knew I was there it was far too late.

I was also experimenting with a militia SMG and it was kind of sad to be able to kill an expensive heavy with such a low cost setup that I was useing.

Funny how no one ever mentions the other and much more important heavy nerfs/limitations such as 65 DB scan and 60 DB profile and the close to useless 15M scan range that with 65DB"precision" lets a scout walk right behind a heavy un-noticed for minutes at a time until bored of the game I just SMG massacred the heavies.

Pointing out weaknesses of the MASSIVELY OP heavy class is crazy talk

The heavies are fine, wouldn't mind to see the heat indacator be a little shorter, just because I see them hold it down for 20+ seconds. Kinda ridiculous. But if I have cover my ad is no match for heavies. The range is a little long but he'll they can't run so its ok.
Lasers on the on the other hand blow. You get rewarded for being a horrible shot, c'mon man!

Cheese and rice man I was just guessing the time. Just seems long. Some can eat my clip while firing at me, reload and still get fired at. Just think it would serve the heavy style if they had to let off the trigger every now then. Most heavies just think they can go toe to toe in stead of finding cover.

Actually just to be 100% fair, the Broadside was broken in an unfair way during Precursor and most of Codex. It did 19.2 dmg (same as the Gaston does now) with a CPU requirement of only 72 (it was in the 70s...don't remember exactly) which was way less than the Boundless.

Haha, really. You can do better than than that. 20 seconds firing a 2000rpm HMG with a 425 round magazine??????

Even without overheating a HMG could only fire for about 12.5 seconds before having to reload. With level 3 HMG operations which gives a 9% reduction in heat, the gun locks up with still 143 rounds left in the magazine. That's 8.5 seconds of fire before we have a 10 second lock up.

The HMG is totally over powered... when you engage it head on within it's optimal range, ooo wait the shotgun is OP'ed when you do that too, so's the laser, or the mass driver, and sniper rifles are completely OP when you sit still or move through the open without cover [:roll]

The vast majority of "nerf" threads I've seen on the forums contain little to no actual data or testing information. Hardly ever contain any assessment of the weapon/suit/mods battlefield role and how it's current capability exceeds that intended role and infringes on another. The majority of those threads also lack any first hand experience with the gear in question thus ignoring it's shortcomings or the comparative required investments to skill/buy/field that item. Also frequently glossed over is the fact that both character skills and overall fitting effect the performance of the item in question (weaponry 5 + 4 complex damage mods does make a difference).

Having heard comments such as "militia gear is OP'ed, if I come around the corner point blank into a militia shotgun it'll one shot me" or "we zerged that heavy HMG dead on like five times and he just kept killing our squad" the only think I can think is of course! It's like saying "I stuck my hand in a fire and got burned, it clearly can't be poor choice on my fault so we'd better nerf fire, I'd say make it 20-7-% less powerful, that way it could still heat soup to around room temperature in about 50 minutes but it couldn't burn me so quickly when I stick my hand in the flame."

Don't engage weapons in their optimal rage/context. Don't assume that you should be able to engage everything/everyone head on. Don't ignore the virtues of mobility or the hindrance of it's lack (I've killed more than one HMG user with a scout suit and Nova Knives). And please, please don't QQ on the forums when it turns out your chosen play style/weapon isn't an guaranteed "I Win" button under every battlefield condition.

0.02 ISK
Cross