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[Discussion] Question regarding peoples' views of the HMG.

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Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis 300	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:21:00 - [1] - Quote FIRST: If this is a duplicate, please lock and let it die. I tried looking and didn't find any other threads like this one. So it's pretty obvious that there are a growing population of players that feel the HMG is OP. My question is this: What, in your eyes, makes the HMG OP? I also made this thread as a "central hub" of sorts for the HMG discussion. I'm curious to see what the opposite end of the barrel thinks. Please keep the discussion civil. (wishful thinking, I know)
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:23:00 - [2] - Quote I'm not sure if it would make it a duplicate, but there was a thread already to vote whether or not HMGs are OP. The votes were by far in favor of saying it's either fine or needs very small tweaks.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 642	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:24:00 - [3] - Quote As a heavy myself, I can say honestly I won't mind a Heat build up, and a slight range nerf, like 10-15m (off maxed out proficiency) Anything more than that, and a Heavy + HMG should just be removed from the game. Edit: On a different note, I wonder what other class out there would admit their primary gun is OP? I mean AR's have no recoil, Sniper Rifles do too much dmg to body shots, and the recoil sets the gun in the EXACT same spot, Shotguns dmg drop off is not enough... Lol...I'm sure no one will admit their gun is OP.... but again, let's nerf the guy with a hitbox of a truck.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis 300	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:27:00 - [4] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I'm not sure if it would make it a duplicate, but there was a thread already to vote whether or not HMGs are OP. The votes were by far in favor of saying it's either fine or needs very small tweaks. I saw that thread, which is sort of why I made that little disclaimer first, so that if CCP sees it as a duplicate thread, they could just lock it and let it sink. I hoped for this to be more of a discussion than a voting thing though. crosses fingers
Shadow Archeus Wraith Shadow Guards 38	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:39:00 - [5] - Quote As a heavy I can honestly say NO its not op It has limited range the people who are " picking you off" are doing one of three things 1. They have heavy sharpshooter skill maxed 2. You were in range and stood still thinking your ur was gonna save you 3. You are running out in the open basically waving a flag saying hey shoot me It does heat up and when it does you're kinda screwed for a little over 10 seconds....you can't switch your weapon all you can do is run.....and in a heavy suit running isn't a sound strategy Yeah it has 425 rounds but u blow through that quick The damage is less than your ar and its nowhere near as accurate Its not op people who think it is need to try the hmG instead of immediately crying op
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:43:00 - [6] - Quote All it needs is a range tweak, i am shooting too far with only sharpshooter 3.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis 300	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:54:00 - [7] - Quote Bamp
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.02.05 23:58:00 - [8] - Quote It's OP becuase it does more damage than an AR, but you are slow as **** so remote mines, gernades, shotguns, mass drivers, snipers counter them easily
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:01:00 - [9] - Quote I would be fine with a small tweak to range. Nothing major just a small 10 meter range nerf would be fine. After all we heavies dont tend to engage at range anyway. However, I'm afraid of this happening because CCP is known to over nerf things.... Btw higher tier heavy suits need a buff!
Panoscape BurgezzE.T.F 107	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:07:00 - [10] - Quote A gek with two complex damage mods rips my heavy in two before I can drop them and I can get one shotted by a moded shotgun, so the HMG is fine, just the way it is.

HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2242	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:09:00 - [11] - Quote Higher teir suits need a buff! The range on the standard hmg you can do whatever you want with IDK I don't use it for long distance shooting. We need other options the burst is silly And The assault is what every one is crying about that thing shoots far.lol but still a horrible choice as a primary. Every other suit has many viable choices we truly only have one.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:09:00 - [12] - Quote KryptixX wrote: All it needs is a range tweak, i am shooting too far with only sharpshooter 3. I knew I liked kryptixx for being the smart one
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 431	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:09:00 - [13] - Quote As a Scout, I say minor tweaking at greatest maximum. I feel like dispersion over range needs some work, but then again there might be another down time fix I haven't tried yet today. Basically, my idea of the HMG was that it was numerous low damage shots that were fired at insane RoF, thus very good DPS, and a slight increase in heat build up (not per shot but per time in use). Of course an increase in ammo carried would go with it.This is just what my idea of what the HMG should be though. Basically, HMG users wouldn't notice the effects at close range. But at the extended range, when the shots become more dispersed, the damage caused by each shot is lower than what it currently is, so the damage you're doing over a range increasingly drops, more so than currently. So basically, the damage has more of a drop off over range and would not be significant until you start going past mid range. That's my conception as a scout mind you. But the current HMG, which in comparison to other weapons fits the description of my concept HMG, needs little more than heat build up and/or range balancing.
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:10:00 - [14] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: FIRST: If this is a duplicate, please lock and let it die. I tried looking and didn't find any other threads like this one. So it's pretty obvious that there are a growing population of players that feel the HMG is OP. My question is this: What, in your eyes, makes the HMG OP? I also made this thread as a "central hub" of sorts for the HMG discussion. I'm curious to see what the opposite end of the barrel thinks. Please keep the discussion civil. (wishful thinking, I know) It has too much range and outdamages all the other automatic weapons at just about every range. People keep insisting that the counter is to keep your distance but once you get to the range where heavies aren't able to hit you so hard, your AR will be dealing way too little damage to drop them before they can find cover. Heavies already have a massive health advantage. The massive stopping power advantage is overdoing it. Giving the AR a significant range boost could be one way of solving this problem. Otherwise the HMG needs to be looked at.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:14:00 - [15] - Quote no one complains about this crap in TF2
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:26:00 - [16] - Quote Range is fine. Only thing that feels OP is ARs. The thing is a gyro stabilized magic machine gun. It has a huge fdamage drop off at range. Just to clarify, what ranges are people complaining about being killed at? I've been Gek'd at about 74-90m while my basic HMG with Damage mod just tickled his shields. the way this keeps going, I see HMGs being nerf'd into uselessness with HMGs that have slightly better range than SMGs. Looking forward to learning AR skills then. Has anyone actually set up any damage and range videos yet?
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis 300	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:45:00 - [17] - Quote Big miku wrote: the way this keeps going, I see HMGs being nerf'd into uselessness with HMGs that have slightly better range than SMGs. Looking forward to learning AR skills then. This is what i'd like to avoid. I don't really feel like there is anything that needs to be done to the HMGs. I get put down enough to balance out the amount people i'm putting down. I play the heavy role like I think it should be played (i.e. tight areas, try not to solo, usually am running with good support, try and get a beat on people who aren't paying attention to me, etc etc).
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:48:00 - [18] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: Big miku wrote: the way this keeps going, I see HMGs being nerf'd into uselessness with HMGs that have slightly better range than SMGs. Looking forward to learning AR skills then. This is what i'd like to avoid. I don't really feel like there is anything that needs to be done to the HMGs. I get put down enough to balance out the amount people i'm putting down. I play the heavy role like I think it should be played (i.e. tight areas, try not to solo, usually am running with good support, try and get a beat on people who aren't paying attention to me, etc etc). I feel you brother, I few times I try to lone wolf it I end up running into a squad of people and get absolutely demolished. Two guys working with a minimum amount of union can kill any heavy.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:55:00 - [19] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: It has too much range and outdamages all the other automatic weapons at just about every range. People keep insisting that the counter is to keep your distance but once you get to the range where heavies aren't able to hit you so hard, your AR will be dealing way too little damage to drop them before they can find cover. Heavies already have a massive health advantage. The massive stopping power advantage is overdoing it. Giving the AR a significant range boost could be one way of solving this problem. Otherwise the HMG needs to be looked at. You've never even laid hands on the HMG, have you?
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.06 00:59:00 - [20] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: no one complains about this crap in TF2 TF2 is perfection in game form mate. all complaints are simple anti-valve demons from Microsoft.

Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:00:00 - [21] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: It has too much range and outdamages all the other automatic weapons at just about every range. People keep insisting that the counter is to keep your distance but once you get to the range where heavies aren't able to hit you so hard, your AR will be dealing way too little damage to drop them before they can find cover. Heavies already have a massive health advantage. The massive stopping power advantage is overdoing it. Giving the AR a significant range boost could be one way of solving this problem. Otherwise the HMG needs to be looked at. You've never even laid hands on the HMG, have you? I have and it gets boring to use real quick. Kills are unsatisfying (even more so than they are normally) and feel unearned (again even more so than normally, Dust has a big problem with getting gunfights to be fair).
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:05:00 - [22] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Kills are unsatisfying (even more so than they are normally) and feel unearned (again even more so than normally, Dust has a big problem with getting gunfights to be fair). Sound like you need to take a break or start fighting you on corp members if you're not feeling challenged enough.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:08:00 - [23] - Quote Big miku wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: no one complains about this crap in TF2 TF2 is perfection in game form mate. all complaints are simple anti-valve demons from Microsoft. I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if that was true... After almost two years of playing the thing, the only complaint I have is "#$%#ING SPIES!" And even that's just generic rage.
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:10:00 - [24] - Quote Big miku wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Kills are unsatisfying (even more so than they are normally) and feel unearned (again even more so than normally, Dust has a big problem with getting gunfights to be fair). Sound like you need to take a break or start fighting you on corp members if you're not feeling challenged enough. Or CCP could tweak the skillbook system so there isn't such a huge artificial skill gap between vets and newbies so pubs stop being such a giant snoozefest.
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:16:00 - [25] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Big miku wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Kills are unsatisfying (even more so than they are normally) and feel unearned (again even more so than normally, Dust has a big problem with getting gunfights to be fair). Sound like you need to take a break or start fighting you on corp members if you're not feeling challenged enough. Or CCP could tweak the skillbook system so there isn't such a huge artificial skill gap between vets and newbies so pubs stop being such a giant snoozefest. It'd be nice if there we're "ranked" match making, so you'd get put up against people around your skill level.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis 300	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:22:00 - [26] - Quote Big miku wrote: It'd be nice if there we're "ranked" match making, so you'd get put up against people around your skill level. They used to have them, although i'm not sure why they took them out. They separated the matches by the level of gear that you're using. I'd like to see a system like Medal of Honor had where they matched people according to their "skill level" which was accrued as you played and fluctuated as you played better/worse. Those with close to the same skill level as you got paired with you in match.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:23:00 - [27] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Jotun Hiem wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: It has too much range and outdamages all the other automatic weapons at just about every range. People keep insisting that the counter is to keep your distance but once you get to the range where heavies aren't able to hit you so hard, your AR will be dealing way too little damage to drop them before they can find cover. Heavies already have a massive health advantage. The massive stopping power advantage is overdoing it. Giving the AR a significant range boost could be one way of solving this problem. Otherwise the HMG needs to be looked at. You've never even laid hands on the HMG, have you? I have and it gets boring to use real quick. Kills are unsatisfying (even more so than they are normally) and feel unearned (again even more so than normally, Dust has a big problem with getting gunfights to be fair). Same with the AR. I made an AR/Assault alt and man... It was so easy to use. Just a standard AR with type II assault and you're set. Barely kicks if you know to stop firing after 20-30 shots. It was also liberating due to speed Edit 1: it was probably due to all the newbies though.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. 33	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:28:00 - [28] - Quote From several builds I play as a HMG user in this build I also start to play on my Scout alt as stealth-shootguner. As a Heavy I have to say that what most people do wrong when they encounter heavy is that they stand still - no matter what. Yes - I'm not dealing to them much dmg at the at the beginning when my cylinder is big, but that changed dramatically when the cylinder gets a little and I'm pointing it on head, because target gets at the time 150% dmg and he has no shield left, and as we all know HMG are more successful at droping armor then shield.. The second think that people do wrong is that they just run - they don't run to cover them self from me, no they just run to on open, maybe they think that they are doing it really fast. I really would like to say that some tweak changes to HMG would change present shapes of battles, but I realize that these changes will make people think smarter. Maybe what's they need is wikipedia or bunch of guides move on youtube telling them how the hell kill heavy in smart and safety way. Ninety-five percent of the people I kill, are not working as a team. Despite the fact that my gun is designed to be crowd-control I kill people that encounter me one by one. If three of them are trying to kill me I find myself a place to separate two of them and kill "the bravest", then I kill the wounded guy, in the meantime last one is not even looking for a cover. They are working like a bunch of individualists.. It is rare that someone tried to kill me with a grenade or remote explosive in those days Changes in weapons are long-term, human stupidity does not. Sorry if that sound's rude but I think that people who have just started to play are not a good indicator of the changes in weapon balance. Why would I want to see changes to weapon? Just turn on by default push-to-talk voices and in less than a week none will have a problem with killing Heavy with HMG.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.06 01:55:00 - [29] - Quote Panoscape wrote: A gek with two complex damage mods rips my heavy in two before I can drop them and I can get one shotted by a moded shotgun, so the HMG is fine, just the way it is. What you are not considering, is that maybe the other weapons OP, and this will affect more than just you if all of them are. Think of the poor newb in his soft squishy suit. Trust me, I know; I still wear one. Geks a one shot Burst for my Raven Assault with militia mods on it., I survive HMGs better. LR kills it in less time than a Gek because it is almost instantly on target and can't miss because it always on. It can stray off target depending on the user, but if it moves over the target it always hits with continuous fire is what I mean. It's sort of like comparing waving your hand through a bunsen burner flame rapidly and making one quick pass through the water jet on a titanium cutting machine. The first results in maybe a blister if it's hot and some smoky residue, the second costs you whatever part of your hand was on the other side of it.
usrevenge2 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 64	Posted - 2013.02.06 02:00:00 - [30] - Quote the HMG needs a spool up time, no reason for them to be able to shoot soon as they touch the trigger, all Heavy weapons should basically need to be charged. the spread is too tight, HMGs should be for suppressing not sniping them like a normal AR.



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