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DonRodie
Deep Space Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.01.23 18:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
Some PC players are the most uncompetitive players I seen, they hack, and they like having 10 times as better graphics then other pc players. Then when they play a console game, they want to play for 48 hours striaght so they can have a unstoppable character lol. |
James-5955
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
151
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Posted - 2013.01.23 19:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Omnipotent Zitro wrote: Anybody that says we need a SP CAP is only self entitled looking out for himself! Let be honest, that's what come down to it. It like saying a 10th round draft pick saying he should be payed exactly the same as Michael Jordan, because he doesn't have the time to play but when he does he wants to be payed the same. You honestly think its right for Michael Jordan to be payed the same as a bench warmer? You know how stupid this sounds? Pretty darn stupid. So why the hell do we want this standard in a video game?!?
Don't even try to use the argument that SP=skill, that players would be so far ahead with SP. All the gear is flat. Once everybody hits the 2-4mil SP, everybody would have a well to full fitted specialization. Everything after that is just icing on the cake.
My main concern isn't other people having more SP than me, I'll still be able to compete. New players or people who have lives and don't play every day however? That's where my concern lies, if I had no SP cap and I played every day for 4 hours, I would have an absurd advantage over people who can only play casually. Most people that have lives should be able to hit a weekly cap, I would think or at least come close to it. I worry about that because I do believe that SP is significant and makes a difference, weaponry lvl 5 for example gives you +10% damage boost on handheld weapons. That's equal to having a prototype weapon damage mod on your suit. Significant IMHO, and shields +25% from shield control and armor +25% on armor from mechanics..
& I don't agree with all gear being "flat". Assuming I get what you mean by flat, you're saying that gear doesn't get better? Sure drop suits have the same base EHP as you progress to better ones, but you get more CPU and PG... Which means you can fit higher tier items on your drop suit. Though proto items are fairly expensive now and IDK how tough it would be to stay isk efficient while running with a lot of proto gear, I'd say it wouldn't matter if you can transfer isk from EVE but I still don't know enough about how they plan to do that. So for now I don't care so much about that argument.
I really like CCPs second option for how to handle SP, having a weekly cap AND making it so that there is no limit on the soft cap. So instead of earning 3000 WP and ending up with 75 SP you'll get 3000 SP. I think that's still enough to give incentive to do well in matches if SP is their goal. A couple thousand SP a match, I would still play for SP after hitting the hard cap.
^ That's something I think most of us would be able to agree on, good players will still be able to grind out SP but not at the same rate as before they hit the hard cap.
Thread for voting on how to handle SP gain: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52633&find=unread
IDK, I don't really feel punished by reaching the cap and I don't see it as my only reason to play.
No SP cap just gives great players a snowball effect, I'm not welcoming any more crutches. If there is no SP cap it won't hurt me, it'll help me. I have a lot of free time and I earn a lot of WP no problem, I'd like to see average players try to keep up with me in SP when I'm getting 4x+ their WP each match. Hell I was pushing for CCP to do another wipe to make it fair, so I get a kick out of being told that I'm just wanting to hold an advantage. |
mollerz
s1ck3r Corp
71
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Posted - 2013.01.23 19:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
So far when my buddies and I play, after the SP gets gimped we tend to lose interest. I mean- no matter how hard you fight, and no matter how epic your round- which happens sometimes after you hit the cap it;s deflating to see 75SP come in. Yet, I can play a round where I have to hit the bathroom to commence WW3 and stick my dude in the MCC (i don't do that at all usually btw) I come back and have 5K SP for doing nothing.
A game like this is nothing if there's no risk/reward. If you kick some serious ass- wether it's your first match or your tenth- you should get rewarded. Otherwise it rings hollow and falls flat. Do play this game based on other people's schedules? NO. I wouldn't expect any other player to either. Do we play based on the fairness of other's schedules or do we play for ourselves. Are we so afraid of a challenge we need to make sure everyone can't get ahead of me?
This is nonsensical shi t e to even be having this debate. Why don't we just make everyone use the same exact equipment while we are at it. Don't want anyone to have an edge! |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
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Posted - 2013.01.23 20:05:00 -
[64] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Stfu and gtfo.
+1 |
xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1452
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Posted - 2013.01.23 20:26:00 -
[65] - Quote
DonRodie wrote:I think the cap was a great idea. People just want to be super powerful after playing the game for 10 days striaght like that guy did call of duty. Then when someone new play, they want to be impossible to kill and then the new player would stop playing and then never return all because some super dude who never stops playing lol I guess a lot of people just don't like competitive games.
Call of duty is probably the worst analogy you can use seeing as people prestige all the time. There isn't any real differences between a lvl 1 COD player and a Prestige Master other than ranking on the leader-boards. |
Grendel Aurelius
Prototype Technology Corp.
13
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Posted - 2013.01.23 20:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
The reason people are clamoring for a cap is very simple. They have an edge on new players and they want to keep that edge.
The funny thing is the same people who swear up and down that it is skill not gear that makes the difference are terrified of everyone having access to all that gear that while somehow not mattering, they use.
I say remove the cap completely, let people play and be rewarded for their time. I have a full time job and plenty of **** to do in the real world so I know without a doubt that without a cap I will "fall behind" quickly, but I don't care. When I do have a day to myself where I can sit down and play then I will be rewarded for my time and those people who are ahead won't be for long.
The other option is to remove all active skillpoints and just use a passive system but CCP will not do this since they are making money selling active boosters. |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2013.01.23 21:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Whether there's a SP cap or not means that new players will be in disadvantage.
Cap = Those who play more often gain more. No-Cap = Those who play more gain more.
With Cap new players have even less the chance to catch up with the vets since the SP cap will hinder their progress. Besides the amount of people who will actually play the game intensively will be fairly marginal, probably less than 0.1% of the players while most will just play the game few hours or few minutes per day.
Far more efficient way to handle this small group of players is just match them with similar players or at least against each other. Besides it's bad for business if CCP wants to get money from selling consumables such as gear and SP boosts. These players will also be the ones who will buy the high priced AUR and the AUR gear off the paying players (if/when auction house gets implemented).
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GarryKE
Omnispace Trading Company
60
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Posted - 2013.01.23 21:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
A couple SP cap threads every week was easily ignorable. It was nice and peaceful here until the other day and now look what's happened. |
smokinghettodope
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
7
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Posted - 2013.01.23 21:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
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EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2013.01.23 21:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
The whole system is botched, Other shooters that have rpg elements the upgrades are equal to there standard counter parts. With this system it there is a progression that grants more health and weapon damage and range to the person who has played the longest. That grants obvious bonuses against other players. Making this game balanced is ridiculously hard or impossible.
when someone skills out something you see a subsequent forum post about OP |
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WR3CK HAVOC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
11
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Posted - 2013.01.23 21:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
Imperfect propaganda do not listen they want to take your guns away and get there proto suits sooner. |
Sebastian Seraphim
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
25
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Have you guys even realised that in the future most of us won't be playing instant battles and too busy sorting out with contracts that will hopefully give you SP depending on how risky the job is?
And even if we do go into instant battles, CCP should set up a system of ranked matchmaking so as others have said, scrubs can face scrubs and pros vs pros, although corp wars in the future will also be a pro vs pro battle too both here and in EvE.
As a hardcore player, I don't oppose to the removal of the skill cap, of course I'd benefit from it and others wouldn't because I have more time to play. But I don't plan on playing everyday for the next 6 months, and I don't care if there's someone always better than me. Yes the skills obviously provide a great advantage to HC players due to better gear etc, but then again it comes down to simple physical skill in the person. I've seen my corp mates with high tier drop suits, modules and weapons, get taken out by a guy using a militia AR. It seems that most people loathe the idea of the removal of the cap through sheer jealousy of constantly being battered by the same player over and over again, and I know it's frustrating but here's the thing, it's only a game.
It's a game of tactics, you don't run out into a group of 10 enemies, you'd get turned into metallic stew. Everyone can have good days and bad days, I've gone from losing streaks on one day and the next day keep being MVP in every match with an average K/D of 20/3 on ambush. Keep focused and use your senses, take the longer route and flank the enemy getting them by surprise. These kind of tactics make you survive. Oh, and always keep moving!
We'll see how CCP deals with this, this is the last thing on my mind right now, I want FREAKING FIGHTER JETS AND 64 PLAYER BATTLES!!!!
See you out on the field.
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Mirana Cheshire
Forgotten Militia
20
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
Grendel Aurelius wrote:The reason people are clamoring for a cap is very simple. They have an edge on new players and they want to keep that edge.
The funny thing is the same people who swear up and down that it is skill not gear that makes the difference are terrified of everyone having access to all that gear that while somehow not mattering, they use.
I say remove the cap completely, let people play and be rewarded for their time. I have a full time job and plenty of **** to do in the real world so I know without a doubt that without a cap I will "fall behind" quickly, but I don't care. When I do have a day to myself where I can sit down and play then I will be rewarded for my time and those people who are ahead won't be for long.
The other option is to remove all active skillpoints and just use a passive system but CCP will not do this since they are making money selling active boosters.
this right here +1
even battlefield throws new players straight into the battlefield with just basic gear, if you want access to more gear just play more |
Crm234
Wraith Shadow Guards
166
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
Its not the cap , but what we do with SP that creates all the problems that CCP wont admit because the system is copy and pasted from Eve and is seen as attacking Eve. It doesnt work because it creates a huge gap where the rich just get richer and makes people feel if they dont have SP they cant compete in the game. You cant balance SP in a FPS it just doesnt work. On the other hand if you make all increase damage,shields,range, and armor gear+modules that allow you to be able to balance a game and create a greater need for a player market.
We really need to stop worrying about the 7 yr progression , when the beta makes players feel that if they didnt play for a week maybe they shouldnt come back because they will be way to behind. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2013.01.23 23:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
fahrenheitM wrote:Having NO SP cap will ruin the game for the vast majority of people, and make it darn near unplayable for new players down the road. O-Z you know this. You are approaching this from a 100% selfish and short-term standpoint on this matter. You probably have your reasons, as to which there is no point in debating. But if you are truly here to help this game for the long term, then there is no option but some sort of skill cap. Quoted for truth.
We all no that no SP cap will help those who play the most. This is people like Zitro and many others who can play much more than most people.
The SP cap idea that would work best is the one that most people want. That is the daily SP cap will roll over. This will allow those who have been away to catch up, and not allow those who have nothing else to do but play to go far beyond everyone else.
It is funny to see such a selfish post under the guise of not wanting things to be selfish. It is very obvious that casual players would be most hurt by this. Not that I really care about catering to casuals, but we do need a population base in this game. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2281
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Posted - 2013.01.24 00:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
fahrenheitM wrote:Gunner Nightingale wrote:Global SP reserve that allows new characters to progress unrestricted until they reach that number is the OBVIOUS key to any NEW PLAYERS This.
been suggesting this for a while now https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44696&find=unread |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 00:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
the game seems more like a chore than a game. |
Shadowswipe
WarRavens
13
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Posted - 2013.01.24 00:20:00 -
[78] - Quote
All this SP talk becomes kinda menial when we are fighting over land in null sec. I for one would rather not have to spend all my time grinding SP. Instead, I will relish building a sweet build and looking around for all the equipment I need for a planned campaign on a system. If I am forced to keep up with SP ALL the time, then when the game gets to this state of land = money and prestige, I will not have as much time to plan and enjoy making war. Yes, this seems important now, but in the end we will all have effective builds in a relatively short time and be able to compete with the "best" of them as long as our team work is better than our opponents. |
Zarr Du'Kar
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
13
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Posted - 2013.01.24 00:31:00 -
[79] - Quote
I think the problem lies with the concept of MMOFPS and a purely FPS game.
In a purely traditional FPS game, the supposed "skill points" usually just meant unlocking attachments, new guns, scopes and what not. The gain that you get from "skill points" did not have a big impact in the game since a lvl 1 standard gun in a traditional FPS can beat a lvl 99 who has all the bells and whistles gun (scope, foregrip etc.). There were no additional HP nor any additional damage to your weapons. Everyone has the same HP/Gear.
In an MMO, there is no SP CAP (except for hard level cap), true! however, every traditional MMO has a LEVEL RANGE area which restricts and protects the players. This way, newbies, are only designated to a beginner area and so forth. Every time they level up (range) they get to go to another area where everyone are roughly in the same level range. There is basically no conflict between a high level player and a low level player (save for trolls).
Now, the problem lies with the fact that Dust514 is a MMOFPS. This entails, that everyone is pitted at each other with no level distinction. Low-leveled will meet High-leveled players in matches.
The argument for a SP-CAP is this:
The skill points earned in Dust514 substantially affects the player by altering their capability to kill and survive. Thus, a high skill point player will most often than not win over a newbie just on that fact. WE ARE NOT IN A TRADITIONAL FPS NOR A TRADITIONAL MMO. There are no level restrictions and the skill points earned have a substantial effect on a player's survivability.
So, if you lift the SP cap and hardcore no lifers run amok and level all-day everyday, by the end of the week, the "level" disparity will be so high as compared to "casual" gamers that no matter what kind of "catch-up" casual gamers would do, they won't have a fighting chance when pitted against hardcore gamers.
The SP CAP is what's keeping that from happening. Now, don't get me wrong. Our daily SP CAP is not even close to perfect. It does feel like a job where you have play everyday just to keep that level disparity in check. Which is why, I am an avid supporter of a daily cap that rolls over and to appease them hardcore gamers, increase the daily cap a bit as well as the hard cap bonus from 50 to somewhere around 300-400 sp per game. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 00:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zarr Du'Kar wrote:I think the problem lies with the concept of MMOFPS and a purely FPS game.
In a purely traditional FPS game, the supposed "skill points" usually just meant unlocking attachments, new guns, scopes and what not. The gain that you get from "skill points" did not have a big impact in the game since a lvl 1 standard gun in a traditional FPS can beat a lvl 99 who has all the bells and whistles gun (scope, foregrip etc.). There were no additional HP nor any additional damage to your weapons. Everyone has the same HP/Gear.
In an MMO, there is no SP CAP (except for hard level cap), true! however, every traditional MMO has a LEVEL RANGE area which restricts and protects the players. This way, newbies, are only designated to a beginner area and so forth. Every time they level up (range) they get to go to another area where everyone are roughly in the same level range. There is basically no conflict between a high level player and a low level player (save for trolls).
Now, the problem lies with the fact that Dust514 is a MMOFPS. This entails, that everyone is pitted at each other with no level distinction. Low-leveled will meet High-leveled players in matches.
The argument for a SP-CAP is this:
The skill points earned in Dust514 substantially affects the player by altering their capability to kill and survive. Thus, a high skill point player will most often than not win over a newbie just on that fact. WE ARE NOT IN A TRADITIONAL FPS NOR A TRADITIONAL MMO. There are no level restrictions and the skill points earned have a substantial effect on a player's survivability.
So, if you lift the SP cap and hardcore no lifers run amok and level all-day everyday, by the end of the week, the "level" disparity will be so high as compared to "casual" gamers that no matter what kind of "catch-up" casual gamers would do, they won't have a fighting chance when pitted against hardcore gamers.
The SP CAP is what's keeping that from happening. Now, don't get me wrong. Our daily SP CAP is not even close to perfect. It does feel like a job where you have play everyday just to keep that level disparity in check. Which is why, I am an avid supporter of a daily cap that rolls over and to appease them hardcore gamers, increase the daily cap a bit as well as the hard cap bonus from 50 to somewhere around 300-400 sp per game.
i think the mixing of the MMO and FPS is water and oil.
the gap will widen and players will feel it because balance issues. |
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Don Von Hulio
UnReaL.
90
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Posted - 2013.01.24 08:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
Well regardless of what happens with the SP deal. The people who are waiting for the final release will already be way behind because everyone who has just played one match will almost forever be ahead of the newcomers just from passive SP.
And honestly, i think passive SP gain is stupid. To me, it feels like cheating and thats lame. I tried this game because it was an MMOFPS, and i anything with MMO in the title is bound to have some sort of competitive edge to it. Then someone clarified for me that i gain SP by not doing anything... PS3 doesnt even have to be on.
If CCP wants to take a game that looks like a hardcore game, plays like a hardcore game, and is hyped like a hardcore game... but then try to cater to softcore Wii Mariokart aficionados then that's their prerogative. But wouldn't you think it would be better if it favored the hardcore audience? Not the people who are scared to be left behind because they "don't have the time".
If your time is that precious, you shouldn't be playing video games period. Seriously, when has a game ever been so important that you actually complained about not having time to play it, and the main argument is "Well... they have better stuff and i dont?" ... mmkay. That's something a 12 year old would say during Christmas. Who is the "real" selfish person here? The Hardcore gamer who wants to play a game as much as he wants because he enjoys them as a hobby? Or the Softie who just wants to be included, but not actually do anything...
If your a casual gamer and want a game where it basically does everything for you... go download a Fish Tank app. You earn currency over time to buy more fishes. They even have soft caps and stuff too so you don't earn too much money and buy too many fishes. (unless you decide to pay a small fee of $2.99 to reset it... sound familiar *COUGH* Boosts)
If that's not your style, then quit crying and L2P a game efficiently |
Deadeyes Anterie
Crimson Ravens Talons RISE of LEGION
269
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Posted - 2013.01.24 08:26:00 -
[82] - Quote
I'm not saying that a SP cap is fair, but it does prevent players from using the skill system structure to gain huge advantages in a short period of time. You would probably already be proto with your codewish (dk if you are still using it after they added recoil) going 25-1 against people in meta 1 gear if not for the daily caps. The reason the SP cap is in place is to help level the playing field, annoying for those who would be on top and have the advantage, a welcome insurance for others.
I would also probably benefit a lot more than others from a SP cap removal, but I think it would hurt the game overall. Nobody likes playing a loaded game, and if they don't have any limits you can exchange more time for more dmg, hp, mobility, ammo.. ect, at a rate other people can't participate at. That means when they do have time to participate the fun they will have is diminished because they are at a disadvantage (and one that is not their fault).
The system is going to be unfair to someone by nature, I think for the health of the game it's better to be unfair to players like us who play 15-30 hours a week by SP capping, because we make up a small minority of the overall community, and can still do quite well without the skill advantages.
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Doshneil Antaro
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
24
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Posted - 2013.01.24 12:26:00 -
[83] - Quote
Let's look at this from a MMORPG stand point. If you are playing one of these games and are on a PvP (player vs player) server, when you first start off playing at level 1, level 99 players can come along and sneeze you over in over again. Though some players do give up, most of the better made games continue to thrive and bring in new players. New players here, just as other MMO's, will use the hate of being cannon fodder to grind to get top so they can gank the noobs. This will breed new noobs into hardened soldiers, if not better than any older characters, because in the beginning of there journey they will have to develop better tactics from the start to survive well. Removing the sp cap will make this game nothing but better, and having one will hold back this game as well as it players from ever reaching it's true potential. |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 12:52:00 -
[84] - Quote
Saying that no lifers will not have an advantage in a game where time spent playing is almost as important as skilled gunplay is not accurate. The player that grinds untill he/she is into proficiencies with weapons and their upgrades has a clear advantage in game. Since all the suits are flat those proficiency levels (earned by grinding SP instead of leaving the house and getting some sunlight) make a huge difference. There are players out there that will play non stop match after match for hours a day. |
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