DUST Search - The real reason why any SP Cap sucks!

fahrenheitM wrote:

Protocake JR wrote:

fahrenheitM wrote:

Mr Zitro wrote:

Protocake JR wrote:

As long as there is proper matchmaking, then ideally there should be no skill cap. Hardcores will play with hardcores, casuals will play with casuals.

And as for the longevity of the game being at risk due to people maxing out their characters in a month, CCP will be regularly adding new content and updates to keep you coming back, at least during every new update. It's also important to note that SP will (hopefully) not be the only reason to play the game because of things like conquest, the market, PVE, Jolly cooperation with friends/corp managment, and literally every awesome thing planned for "down the road" will be the meat and potatoes of the game. Not stupid skill points.

SP is almost a non-factor when looking at all the things CCP has planned. The only reason it's such a big deal now is because we have no other content to play with.

A guy who sees the big picture!

So if you agree that SP isn't a big deal, then why are you guys along with EVERYONE else making it such a big deal?

Because you want to tip the scales to your favor, which is your mojo. You guys play chess when you play. Always making sure you have the upper hand. See it in your approach in here, and in games as well. If things aren't going your way, you pull out the proto's or the tanks, etc.. You always are tactical in what you guys do, to ensure the win. It's the New Eden way. You're taking this SP cap stance with the same approach. Regardless of the gum flapping about it "not mattering", it does matter and you guys are aware of it most of all... which is why you want to gain that advantage again over everyone else.

Like I said in my post, the only reason everyone is making a big deal about it is because it's the only reason to play this beta, currently. CURRENTLY. However in the future, when more content is added, SP will be in the back of every ones minds. You also need to keep in mind that there is only so far a player can develop a specialized character.

It's not like anyone can level up into infinity and immortality.

Playing EVE for years, SP still is very much a big deal... even with all being passive SP. In the end... it matters... a lot.

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Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:08:00 - [31] - Quote Sorry but any player missing sp from the cap now and then is still gonna keep them way closer to the general sp level of the player base than a no cap system where a huge gap will quickly rise over the whole community. I can get the job feeling as its the 1st thing i said when daily cap came back. But a weekly one does take away that feeling as it allows ppl to play when they want over 7 days which is reasonable. Once again you come in late saying stuff that already have been discussed. Proof that overall you dont read much of what people say.... Some beta tester are way over rated..
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:08:00 - [32] - Quote Kamiya Musume wrote: fahrenheitM wrote: Kamiya, read again... GLOBAL CAP that is increasing deaily. as in... EVERYONE can catch up. re-read, and while I still find your post slightly confusing, I'm willing to concede I had a blonde moment. apologies. For clarity. What we mean is there should be a SP cap in place for ALL PLAYERS. However there should be a global SP reserve meaning CCP has a number at which all players would be from day 1--> present if they played and capped everyday. Any player that is not near that level would be unrestricted by the CAP until they reach that number so players who take a month off or are just new character can progress unrestricted until they reach that global level(which is increasing every day/week to account for the SP gained if you hit cap every day/week). For instance take the daily cap of 27,200 and passive boost of 24,000. That is a 51,200/day. Currently it is 13 days since last reset. That mean a person could have potentially earned a total of 665,600 so far. If a person had both active and passive booster then that number is 76,800/day x 13=998,400 SP so far. The global reserve for a player without boosters active would be allowed to grind until they reached that number plus the CAP level that they would hit for that week A person with boosters active would be allowed to reach the higher number. Once they have caught up the normal CAP would apply. If they miss a week or more they could again be unrestricted until they reach the number which is growing with each passing week. The problem with this as you can see is that it would require monitoring of each individual character and also account for booster which could be potentially exploited in an abusive manner by using shorter day boosters and grind away. This from a coding standpoint could be very difficult to manage. (not a programmer but im speculating).
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:09:00 - [33] - Quote TiMeSpLiT--TeR wrote: Dust is the only game that has skill caps. No other game like this one. For me, I hate going online everyday. I might catch up on my days off, but no because it's been capped. I can't catch up because I miss a day or two. EVE/Dust are different games from other games. They have territories, alliances, etc. It's like a second life warfare. I bought the Skill boost and passive boost so that I can benefit from it, but it looks to me that it only helps me to reach my cap faster. I don't think it gives me more. Boosters give you more. The first 4-5 million sp should be uncapped. By than you should be spec perfectly into whatever you want. After than just have a daily cap/weekly cap/ whatever kind of ****** cap you want :)
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:11:00 - [34] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Kamiya Musume wrote: fahrenheitM wrote: Kamiya, read again... GLOBAL CAP that is increasing deaily. as in... EVERYONE can catch up. re-read, and while I still find your post slightly confusing, I'm willing to concede I had a blonde moment. apologies. For clarity. What we mean is there should be a SP cap in place for ALL PLAYERS. However there should be a global SP reserve meaning CCP has a number at which all players would be from day 1--> present if they played and capped everyday. Any player that is not near that level would be unrestricted by the CAP until they reach that number so players who take a month off or are just new character can progress unrestricted until they reach that global level(which is increasing every day/week to account for the SP gained if you hit cap every day/week). For instance take the daily cap of 27,200 and passive boost of 24,000. That is a 51,200/day. Currently it is 13 days since last reset. That mean a person could have potentially earned a total of 665,600 so far. If a person had both active and passive booster then that number is 76,800/day x 13=998,400 SP so far. The global reserve for a player without boosters active would be allowed to grind until they reached that number plus the CAP level that they would hit for that week A person with boosters active would be allowed to reach the higher number. Once they have caught up the normal CAP would apply. If they miss a week or more they could again be unrestricted until they reach the number which is growing with each passing week. The problem with this as you can see is that it would require monitoring of each individual character and also account for booster which could be potentially exploited in an abusive manner by using shorter day boosters and grind away. This from a coding standpoint could be very difficult to manage. (not a programmer but im speculating). A global cap would be the worst thing to hit this game
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:12:00 - [35] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: TiMeSpLiT--TeR wrote: Dust is the only game that has skill caps. No other game like this one. For me, I hate going online everyday. I might catch up on my days off, but no because it's been capped. I can't catch up because I miss a day or two. EVE/Dust are different games from other games. They have territories, alliances, etc. It's like a second life warfare. I bought the Skill boost and passive boost so that I can benefit from it, but it looks to me that it only helps me to reach my cap faster. I don't think it gives me more. Boosters give you more. The first 4-5 million sp should be uncapped. By than you should be spec perfectly into whatever you want. After than just have a daily cap/weekly cap/ whatever kind of ****** cap you want :) Oh yea i like this, this makes sense and would be a great way to help new players and HC players alike.. I knew you were a genius Zitro. Everyone including me have all these complicated ideas but true intellect shines when a simple and elegant solution can be presented. Kudos.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:13:00 - [36] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: [ A global cap would be the worst thing to hit this game Why?
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:14:00 - [37] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Protocake JR wrote: As long as there is proper matchmaking, then ideally there should be no skill cap. Hardcores will play with hardcores, casuals will play with casuals. And as for the longevity of the game being at risk due to people maxing out their characters in a month, CCP will be regularly adding new content and updates to keep you coming back, at least during every new update. It's also important to note that SP will (hopefully) not be the only reason to play the game because of things like conquest, the market, PVE, Jolly cooperation with friends/corp managment, and literally every awesome thing planned for "down the road" will be the meat and potatoes of the game. Not stupid skill points. SP is almost a non-factor when looking at all the things CCP has planned. The only reason it's such a big deal now is because we have no other content to play with. A guy who sees the big picture! So if you agree that SP isn't a big deal, then why are you guys along with EVERYONE else making it such a big deal? Because you want to tip the scales to your favor, which is your mojo. You guys play chess when you play. Always making sure you have the upper hand. See it in your approach in here, and in games as well. If things aren't going your way, you pull out the proto's or the tanks, etc.. You always are tactical in what you guys do, to ensure the win. It's the New Eden way. You're taking this SP cap stance with the same approach. Regardless of the gum flapping about it "not mattering", it does matter and you guys are aware of it most of all... which is why you want to gain that advantage again over everyone else.
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:17:00 - [38] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: A global cap would be the worst thing to hit this game Why? Selfish reasons that they wouldn't particularly want to admit to publicly.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:20:00 - [39] - Quote fahrenheitM wrote: Gunner Nightingale wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: A global cap would be the worst thing to hit this game Why? Selfish reasons that they wouldn't particularly want to admit to publicly. Nah, Zitro isn't as selfish as his post make him seem. Actually cares more about the integrity of the game than people realize or give him credit for. I ask him why just to keep his feet to the fire and not get away with just throwing out comments with no rationale. Edit- But lets leave the Zitro comments and back and forth to a minimum, this is a good discussion thread so far and don't want to see it hijacked/locked.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:27:00 - [40] - Quote I think you are putting far too much emphasis on individual FPS skills in this game. Team composition, SP, and gear are often significantly more important to one's performance in any given match. (Not to mention how they form a tangled web of influences on said performance.) Removing all caps would lead to an ever expanding gulf between the elite and the rest of us. Sure you could grind away for hours to try and catch up, but the guy with more SP and a better, larger, more active team will be accumulating more SP per match than you. I don't mean to say that skill doesn't matter at all or that the elite players are not skilled; they obviously are. If you're already good, though, why isn't that enough for you? Letting your SP snowball far ahead of the curve would make you effectively invincible. (At least until the average player hits 10-15mil SP.)

Mirana Cheshire Forgotten Militia 20	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:27:00 - [41] - Quote you do know that having a sp cap makes new players even harder to catch up to the others
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:38:00 - [42] - Quote Mirana Cheshire wrote: you do know that having a sp cap makes new players even harder to catch up to the others SP cap in it's current form, yes.
NomaDz 2K SIK NATION RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:42:00 - [43] - Quote I totally agree with Omnipotent Zitro. In the end the game boils down to those without cash will grind and those with cash will pay to obtain the same result and I don't see why they should be limited. The "casual" gamer doesn't really exist, either it's someone with time or cash so basically either they grind their levels or pay to gain the same results with a removed cap. Look at it this way - Once EVERYONE is on the same level - it comes down to SKILL - a hard concept for most Non FPS Gamers .
NomaDz 2K SIK NATION RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:44:00 - [44] - Quote Mirana Cheshire wrote: you do know that having a sp cap makes new players even harder to catch up to the others This is also TOTALLY TRUE :)
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:45:00 - [45] - Quote +1 to all the Global Cap posts, have yet to read a good rebuttal to this solution. I'm no programmer, so coding for this might be to difficult but see this as the least selfish way of being fair to the new players that join at any time and the hardcore that want to be at the top. Edit: Also with no SP cap, I don't see a lot of active boosters being sold. No cap means that you don't get that little bit extra SP than other non- booster players would miss out on.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:48:00 - [46] - Quote Stfu and gtfo.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:54:00 - [47] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Stfu and gtfo. Most constructive post yet
Protocake JR IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 22	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:09:00 - [48] - Quote fahrenheitM wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Protocake JR wrote: As long as there is proper matchmaking, then ideally there should be no skill cap. Hardcores will play with hardcores, casuals will play with casuals. And as for the longevity of the game being at risk due to people maxing out their characters in a month, CCP will be regularly adding new content and updates to keep you coming back, at least during every new update. It's also important to note that SP will (hopefully) not be the only reason to play the game because of things like conquest, the market, PVE, Jolly cooperation with friends/corp managment, and literally every awesome thing planned for "down the road" will be the meat and potatoes of the game. Not stupid skill points. SP is almost a non-factor when looking at all the things CCP has planned. The only reason it's such a big deal now is because we have no other content to play with. A guy who sees the big picture! So if you agree that SP isn't a big deal, then why are you guys along with EVERYONE else making it such a big deal? Because you want to tip the scales to your favor, which is your mojo. You guys play chess when you play. Always making sure you have the upper hand. See it in your approach in here, and in games as well. If things aren't going your way, you pull out the proto's or the tanks, etc.. You always are tactical in what you guys do, to ensure the win. It's the New Eden way. You're taking this SP cap stance with the same approach. Regardless of the gum flapping about it "not mattering", it does matter and you guys are aware of it most of all... which is why you want to gain that advantage again over everyone else. Like I said in my post, the only reason everyone is making a big deal about it is because it's the only reason to play this beta, currently. CURRENTLY. However in the future, when more content is added, SP will be in the back of every ones minds. You also need to keep in mind that there is only so far a player can develop a specialized character. It's not like anyone can level up into infinity and immortality.
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:22:00 - [49] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: fahrenheitM wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Protocake JR wrote: As long as there is proper matchmaking, then ideally there should be no skill cap. Hardcores will play with hardcores, casuals will play with casuals. And as for the longevity of the game being at risk due to people maxing out their characters in a month, CCP will be regularly adding new content and updates to keep you coming back, at least during every new update. It's also important to note that SP will (hopefully) not be the only reason to play the game because of things like conquest, the market, PVE, Jolly cooperation with friends/corp managment, and literally every awesome thing planned for "down the road" will be the meat and potatoes of the game. Not stupid skill points. SP is almost a non-factor when looking at all the things CCP has planned. The only reason it's such a big deal now is because we have no other content to play with. A guy who sees the big picture! So if you agree that SP isn't a big deal, then why are you guys along with EVERYONE else making it such a big deal? Because you want to tip the scales to your favor, which is your mojo. You guys play chess when you play. Always making sure you have the upper hand. See it in your approach in here, and in games as well. If things aren't going your way, you pull out the proto's or the tanks, etc.. You always are tactical in what you guys do, to ensure the win. It's the New Eden way. You're taking this SP cap stance with the same approach. Regardless of the gum flapping about it "not mattering", it does matter and you guys are aware of it most of all... which is why you want to gain that advantage again over everyone else. Like I said in my post, the only reason everyone is making a big deal about it is because it's the only reason to play this beta, currently. CURRENTLY. However in the future, when more content is added, SP will be in the back of every ones minds. You also need to keep in mind that there is only so far a player can develop a specialized character. It's not like anyone can level up into infinity and immortality. Playing EVE for years, SP still is very much a big deal... even with all being passive SP. In the end... it matters... a lot.
Protocake JR IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 22	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:47:00 - [50] - Quote fahrenheitM wrote: Protocake JR wrote: fahrenheitM wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Protocake JR wrote: As long as there is proper matchmaking, then ideally there should be no skill cap. Hardcores will play with hardcores, casuals will play with casuals. And as for the longevity of the game being at risk due to people maxing out their characters in a month, CCP will be regularly adding new content and updates to keep you coming back, at least during every new update. It's also important to note that SP will (hopefully) not be the only reason to play the game because of things like conquest, the market, PVE, Jolly cooperation with friends/corp managment, and literally every awesome thing planned for "down the road" will be the meat and potatoes of the game. Not stupid skill points. SP is almost a non-factor when looking at all the things CCP has planned. The only reason it's such a big deal now is because we have no other content to play with. A guy who sees the big picture! So if you agree that SP isn't a big deal, then why are you guys along with EVERYONE else making it such a big deal? Because you want to tip the scales to your favor, which is your mojo. You guys play chess when you play. Always making sure you have the upper hand. See it in your approach in here, and in games as well. If things aren't going your way, you pull out the proto's or the tanks, etc.. You always are tactical in what you guys do, to ensure the win. It's the New Eden way. You're taking this SP cap stance with the same approach. Regardless of the gum flapping about it "not mattering", it does matter and you guys are aware of it most of all... which is why you want to gain that advantage again over everyone else. Like I said in my post, the only reason everyone is making a big deal about it is because it's the only reason to play this beta, currently. CURRENTLY. However in the future, when more content is added, SP will be in the back of every ones minds. You also need to keep in mind that there is only so far a player can develop a specialized character. It's not like anyone can level up into infinity and immortality. Playing EVE for years, SP still is very much a big deal... even with all being passive SP. In the end... it matters... a lot. God these forums suck, keeps eating my post. Eve is different from dust dude. Battles are not instanced and balanced in eve, the amount and allocation of SP will matter much more in Eve than Dust because Dust is an FPS. FPS' need to be balanced, require skill (especially for a F2P title or risk being P2W), and in this case, battles are instanced with even teams. The weapon and tank stats are more flattened out than in EVE because of this. This slightly diminishes the value of SP in general when compared to EVE. But SP does matter, kind of. Just not as much as in EVE. This isn't an issue of SP cap or not. It's an issue of matchmaking. Casuals do not want to play against no-lifers. Hardcore players do not want to be held back by assholes who can only log in once every two weeks for an hour but still feel entitled to all the SP of the guy who puts real time into the game. Let casuals stay low leveled. They can play in their own kiddie pool. Let the hardcore players level off into infinity and beyond so they can play their high stakes battles. No cap ftw!!!!

Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:29:00 - [51] - Quote LoL thread. Global cap +1
Lord Crases PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:33:00 - [52] - Quote NomaDz 2K wrote: Mirana Cheshire wrote: you do know that having a sp cap makes new players even harder to catch up to the others This is also TOTALLY TRUE :) No its not. There is no catch up.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:34:00 - [53] - Quote i suppose i am well off on the fence about cap or no cap, either way i sorta win, i can see playing under either system i just wsh they would make up there mind, i iknow its beta but flopping around on sp systems is kinda dragging us through the dirt, we would like a final one soon.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 102	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:36:00 - [54] - Quote Option #2 2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap - 299 votes Option #5 5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap - 132 votes Not looking good
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:38:00 - [55] - Quote The first 5 million SP should be uncapped.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:38:00 - [56] - Quote I think we should start with option 2, so everyone can adjust, then to option 5 after a week or two.
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 117	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:39:00 - [57] - Quote the bottom line here is very simple.. how long does CCP want people to play this game? the sad reality is once you max out your stats... you are likely reaching the end of your time on a game. I have no idea about down the road, if DLC is a plan and whatnot, but I have seen firsthand when devs make things easy for people to play 'catch up' in the SP department.. the original players move on as there is little left for them to do... this is as the MMO world turns the somewhat unique situation we are in here, is the combining of both an MMO and an FPS... both in their own right tend to have a faithful following. finding that balance between the 2 is where we now lie, and will likely be a discussion at every step of the way for this game
Lord Crases PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:40:00 - [58] - Quote I think no options and no cap because a cap punishes the team player.
DonRodie Deep Space Republic 5	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:43:00 - [59] - Quote I think the cap was a great idea. People just want to be super powerful after playing the game for 10 days striaght like that guy did call of duty. Then when someone new play, they want to be impossible to kill and then the new player would stop playing and then never return all because some super dude who never stops playing lol I guess a lot of people just don't like competitive games.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:45:00 - [60] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Without the CAP, people who would get on to play on their convenience (Since they have other things to do too) would get raged, frustrated and after a while would'nt even bother playing this game. It has been discussed and argued. Everyone showed their concerns. When it comes to being rewarded, i'm sure the ISK reward and Corporations contracts should be the main focus. Not the SP. That was the intent of this game in the first place right? Planetary Conquest? until we see this there is nothing else to be hyped on.. they should have completed some of the grander scheme of the game if they want to distract ppl from the SP focus, as it is now there's nothing for us to focus on, the same maps, we don't fight for planetary control as in integrated to planetary interaction, we fight random fw battles in random systems we know nothing about. if there was a bigger game i would love to be hyped on it but unfortunately were stuck currently with a somewhat generic match shooter that's becoming repetetive. there's nothing else to really stimulate us and our travel is done through instancing which destroys any immersion to a greater universe.



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