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Omnipotent Zitro
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
156
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yesterday when CCP said they were removing the CAP all together, I was both shocked and pleased. I didn't think CCP had it in them. Finally, after months of questionable decision, CCP was starting to step in the right direction.
Then they backed off. Why?!? Like you said CCP nothin, it is the lesser of all evils.
Any SP CAP makes it a job. Making it daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, annually, etc makes it a job. It forces is to play to get that SP no matter what. It punishes everybody that misses SP cap on any level if and when they have real life issues going on. If anybody misses the SP cap in any iteration, they are at a disadvantage with SP.
Any SP CAP forces the players to get on more, making them get on because they need to. Instead of making players wanting to get on because they want to. We all know how that works in life. Being forced to do something is not as fun or enjoyable as doing it because you want to. Never ends well, players get burnt out a lot quicker, players leave the game sooner, players losing all interest in the game, the list goes on and on.
It's like a career, if you do not like your career, it becomes a job. Something you need to do to earn money and it's never enjoyable. But if your career is something you love, you will never think of it as a job. You would wake up earnestly every morning to go to work.
Having no SP CAP is(rather was) a blessing in disguise. It would make the game enjoyable and not a job. Players would get on and play the way they want to. They would have no worries about, SP CAP, I have to play this long to hit the SP CAP, or worried they don't have time/ real life issues come up. Players would play how long they wanted on their terms. If any player wanted X Skill today, they would have motivation to go grind the SP to get that skill today!
A day missed with an sp cap is lost SP. A day missed without a SP cap is just a little more playing the next few days. Nobody loses SP, they just have to earn it.
See the difference? It is a HUGE difference to want and need to.
The BIGGEST problem with any SP CAP is that it punishes Skill! Is it fair for the players who go 20-0 every single game to not be rewarded for their individual skill? It is fair for the Logi to revive the whole team and keep them repped and supplied not to be rewarded for their individual skill? Should the skilled logi and AR be punished because everybody else does not have there skill?
They should be rewarded for doing extremely well in games. Why shouldn't they?
It's a slap in the face to anyone when they do great and are not rewarded. That's like being the MVP of any sport, but instead of getting a bonus, your team that sits on the bench gets the bonus! Like why do all the work to get nothing from it?
Should the leading scientists be payed the same as a regular scientist in the same field. Should Michael Jordan be punished for being the best and being payed the same as a rookie? Because the rookie can't play as much nor has the skill level. Do you guys see the absurdity?
Anybody that says we need a SP CAP is only self entitled looking out for himself! Let be honest, that's what come down to it. It like saying a 10th round draft pick saying he should be payed exactly the same as Michael Jordan, because he doesn't have the time to play but when he does he wants to be payed the same. You honestly think its right for Michael Jordan to be payed the same as a bench warmer? You know how stupid this sounds? Pretty darn stupid. So why the hell do we want this standard in a video game?!?
Don't even try to use the argument that SP=skill, that players would be so far ahead with SP. All the gear is flat. Once everybody hits the 2-4mil SP, everybody would have a well to full fitted specialization. Everything after that is just icing on the cake.
I have no problem with giving players who haven't been on a while a boost to try to catch up. But players shouldn't be entitled to it. Players need to earn it while not being punished for skill.
No SP CAP will make the game fun to play and enjoyable to get on everyday. While any form of SP CAP is still a job and punishes players who are good and/or plays to much. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Used phrase "slap in the face". Five yard penalty. Argument invalidated. Repeat 2nd down. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are so many points in this thread are so damn true. But alas - CCP stated they wanted a casually friendly game. This may upset a lot of people who are hardcore - but business is business :(
And CCP has been doin' bad business lately. There recent poll thread at least restored some faith. |
Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
63
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm going to go out on a limb here, I think you're right.
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fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Having NO SP cap will ruin the game for the vast majority of people, and make it darn near unplayable for new players down the road. O-Z you know this. You are approaching this from a 100% selfish and short-term standpoint on this matter. You probably have your reasons, as to which there is no point in debating. But if you are truly here to help this game for the long term, then there is no option but some sort of skill cap. |
DEADPOOL5241
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
231
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Good post, but CCP is not trying to cater to the Hardcore group, they see that their income is coming from the working stiff who wants a cap. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
151
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Without the CAP, people who would get on to play on their convenience (Since they have other things to do too) would get raged, frustrated and after a while would'nt even bother playing this game. It has been discussed and argued. Everyone showed their concerns.
When it comes to being rewarded, i'm sure the ISK reward and Corporations contracts should be the main focus. Not the SP. That was the intent of this game in the first place right? Planetary Conquest? |
Protocake JR
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
22
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Greatest. Speech. Ever.
You have me convinced O. Zitro |
Schazla
WarRavens
159
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
TLDR |
fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Omnipotent Zitro wrote:
Anybody that says we need a SP CAP is only self entitled looking out for himself! Let be honest, that's what come down to it. It like saying a 10th round draft pick saying he should be payed exactly the same as Michael Jordan, because he doesn't have the time to play but when he does he wants to be payed the same. You honestly think its right for Michael Jordan to be payed the same as a bench warmer? You know how stupid this sounds? Pretty darn stupid. So why the hell do we want this standard in a video game?!?
This part actually made me chuckle. You're quite the spin doctor now.  |
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Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
215
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
I respectfully disagree(Shock not all IMPS think alike IKR ! )
I think the numbers just need a slight adjustment. I think the Soft cap increase they propose is reasonable and still allows players to grind and earn SP in a reasonable and controlled fashion without letting us HC players from getting too out of control.
Also one of the main reason i keep logging back in is because i still have a lot of things i want to unlock in terms of skill. If i play at the rate i do and earn an unrestricted amount of SP i will hit my milestones in a month perhaps two. and then i will likely get bored.
It sucks having a carrot on a stick but at the same time it is what keeps us coming back LONG TERM. If we hit these milestone too quickly then what will become of this game. EVERY MP game that ive played once players reach that level they become quickly bored and the playerbase drops, especially since nobody wants to FW with us there wont be much left for us to do.
Now ive made some suggestion on how the cap should be handled in the new poll created by CCP with an edit regarding a possible win/loss multiplier that i think makes sense.
It allows for causals to hit cap while the soft cap allows us to hit some pretty good SP numbers, this is especially true with the weekly hard SP cap with 1000WP soft cap as players can hit that in 2-3days with boosters and then each day after that will allow from pretty good numbers. I mean 1500WP(active boost) (+ win multiplier) can generate in my estimate an additional 30-40K SP/day (if not more) that may sound small but it over the course of a month we're talking nearly 1M SP more which is HUGE.
Here is the link to my post
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=486685#post486685 |
semperfi1999
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
317
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
No SP cap would not make the game unplayable for new players down the road and I agree with Omni but I also dont care enough to argue this point too hard. A weekly rollover with a large cap would be fine with me so I dont feel like I have to log on and play every single day. |
Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
63
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
fahrenheitM wrote:Having NO SP cap will ruin the game for the vast majority of people, and make it darn near unplayable for new players down the road. O-Z you know this. You are approaching this from a 100% selfish and short-term standpoint on this matter. You probably have your reasons, as to which there is no point in debating. But if you are truly here to help this game for the long term, then there is no option but some sort of skill cap.
fundamentally untrue; having a cap creates a tiered player base because SP gain rate cannot be increased above it's capped maximum.
the solution is to enable players access to a higher rate of SP gain. If you're rate of SP gain is higher than someone who has more accumulated SP than you then you can catch him/her. simple. |
fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:No SP cap would not make the game unplayable for new players down the road and I agree with Omni but I also dont care enough to argue this point too hard. A weekly rollover with a large cap would be fine with me so I dont feel like I have to log on and play every single day.
The daily cap sucks, that is what makes it feel like a job. I had no such feeling about it being a "job" when it was weekly cap. In fact, I looked forward to the weekly cap reset. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
215
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Global SP reserve that allows new characters to progress unrestricted until they reach that number is the OBVIOUS key to any NEW PLAYERS |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
409
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think most people's problem lie with the match making. People don't want to go up against the best players if they are just starting out. Noobs join everyone and anyone in battle and the better gear makes short work of them. Sure there are just good FPS players and it doesn't matter what suit you give them they are going to be decent.
The method of gaining skills is a tricky one to implement if you're trying to please as many as possible. I see the positives and negatives of both ways of doing it, but I think once people are put into games in a more orderly fashion that this won't be as big ofa situation, hi levels will play other hi levels and noobs will be able to play noobs. Right now the noobs are playing with the big boys and it seems unfair to new players. |
fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kamiya Musume wrote:fahrenheitM wrote:Having NO SP cap will ruin the game for the vast majority of people, and make it darn near unplayable for new players down the road. O-Z you know this. You are approaching this from a 100% selfish and short-term standpoint on this matter. You probably have your reasons, as to which there is no point in debating. But if you are truly here to help this game for the long term, then there is no option but some sort of skill cap. fundamentally untrue; having a cap creates a tiered player base because SP gain rate cannot be increased above it's capped maximum. the solution is to enable players access to a higher rate of SP gain. If you're rate of SP gain is higher than someone who has more accumulated SP than you then you can catch him/her. simple.
This is the skill cap that has been discussed and re-hashed for a long time, but ccp hasn't really taken it to heart. I am in full support of a global cap and think that's actually the best solution. |
V1RONXSS
AL0NE Inc.
4
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
U right mate sometimes i think only a few here have fulltime job, but removing sp cap would disadvantage normal (working) ppl just more. Anyways the Sp cap is not best solution. |
Morathi III
Rebelles A Quebec
57
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
I understand your opinion zitro but that kill the game and 2nd michael jordan play basketball, we are soldier and soldier are pay same salary for same grade thanks |
fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
212
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 15:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:Global SP reserve that allows new characters to progress unrestricted until they reach that number is the OBVIOUS key to any NEW PLAYERS
This. |
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Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
63
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
fahrenheitM wrote:Kamiya Musume wrote:fahrenheitM wrote:Having NO SP cap will ruin the game for the vast majority of people, and make it darn near unplayable for new players down the road. O-Z you know this. You are approaching this from a 100% selfish and short-term standpoint on this matter. You probably have your reasons, as to which there is no point in debating. But if you are truly here to help this game for the long term, then there is no option but some sort of skill cap. fundamentally untrue; having a cap creates a tiered player base because SP gain rate cannot be increased above it's capped maximum. the solution is to enable players access to a higher rate of SP gain. If you're rate of SP gain is higher than someone who has more accumulated SP than you then you can catch him/her. simple. This is the skill cap that has been discussed and re-hashed for a long time, but ccp hasn't really taken it to heart. I am in full support of a global cap and think that's actually the best solution.
did you miss the bit about having any kind of cap creates players that CANNOT BE REACHED in terms of accumulated SP? |
Yay Adski
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
133
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
DEADPOOL5241 wrote:Good post, but CCP is not trying to cater to the Hardcore group, they see that their income is coming from the working stiff who wants a cap.
Play more spend more. This game is getting softer all the time, soon LBP will be more hardcore. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
102
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bad luck option 2 is winning |
fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kamiya, read again... GLOBAL CAP that is increasing deaily. as in... EVERYONE can catch up. |
Protocake JR
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
22
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Posted - 2013.01.23 15:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
As long as there is proper matchmaking, then ideally there should be no skill cap. Hardcores will play with hardcores, casuals will play with casuals.
And as for the longevity of the game being at risk due to people maxing out their characters in a month, CCP will be regularly adding new content and updates to keep you coming back, at least during every new update. It's also important to note that SP will (hopefully) not be the only reason to play the game because of things like conquest, the market, PVE, Jolly cooperation with friends/corp managment, and literally every awesome thing planned for "down the road" will be the meat and potatoes of the game. Not stupid skill points.
SP is almost a non-factor when looking at all the things CCP has planned. The only reason it's such a big deal now is because we have no other content to play with. |
Kamiya Musume
Suffer Inc.
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 15:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
fahrenheitM wrote:Kamiya, read again... GLOBAL CAP that is increasing deaily. as in... EVERYONE can catch up.
re-read, and while I still find your post slightly confusing, I'm willing to concede I had a blonde moment. apologies. |
fahrenheitM
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.01.23 16:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kamiya Musume wrote:fahrenheitM wrote:Kamiya, read again... GLOBAL CAP that is increasing deaily. as in... EVERYONE can catch up. re-read, and while I still find your post slightly confusing, I'm willing to concede I had a blonde moment. apologies.
Mine was obviously filled with assumptions, hence the easy confusion. No worries |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
326
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Posted - 2013.01.23 16:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dust is the only game that has skill caps. No other game like this one.
For me, I hate going online everyday. I might catch up on my days off, but no because it's been capped. I can't catch up because I miss a day or two.
EVE/Dust are different games from other games. They have territories, alliances, etc. It's like a second life warfare. I bought the Skill boost and passive boost so that I can benefit from it, but it looks to me that it only helps me to reach my cap faster. I don't think it gives me more. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2013.01.23 16:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
SP cap or no SP in the end everyone will be snipped across the map by me. Thats the god to honest truth  |
Mr Zitro
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
417
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Posted - 2013.01.23 16:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:As long as there is proper matchmaking, then ideally there should be no skill cap. Hardcores will play with hardcores, casuals will play with casuals.
And as for the longevity of the game being at risk due to people maxing out their characters in a month, CCP will be regularly adding new content and updates to keep you coming back, at least during every new update. It's also important to note that SP will (hopefully) not be the only reason to play the game because of things like conquest, the market, PVE, Jolly cooperation with friends/corp managment, and literally every awesome thing planned for "down the road" will be the meat and potatoes of the game. Not stupid skill points.
SP is almost a non-factor when looking at all the things CCP has planned. The only reason it's such a big deal now is because we have no other content to play with.
A guy who sees the big picture! |
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