DUST Search - re: Cmdr Wangs post about heavies

Stinker Butt wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

This thread honestly surprises me. I feel wicked OP in my fat suit Roll

HMG's (not burst) need to overheat just a little bit faster. As it is right now, even before investing in the HMG operation (3% reduced heat build up each level) I haven't once overheated, and I can just sit there and hold down the trigger forever.

HMG's need to require more skill to use. Oh, and they need to do more damage at point blank range. I swear, if someone gets in my face, unless they stand perfectly still, I can never kill them Ugh

So you think HMG's are OP, but what about dropsuits? that seems to be what Wang was referring to.

To address HMG's, they should be feared. I can't think of any hollywood movies where the guy with the minigun didn't pwn everything in his path. And we're heavies, so the one thing we do is kill. We don't hack (much), repair, revive, replenish ammo, or whatever else gets people to the top 3 at the end of the match. Others can do that, and I'll do my best to provide cover by killing whoever approaches. I think that's the way it should be. I do overheat, and typically at the most in-opportune times. It's easily manageable, but I definitely let go of the trigger on occasion.

more sp to use? I'm cool with that. I think if you really enjoy playing the heavy, you probably won't mind investing more sp to be good at it.

I do wish that the cost of higher tier gear for the heavy was more in-line with others. We're not immortal, but you can't afford to die in high tier isk gear. And the cost/benefit ratio is too high.

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Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:40:00 - [1] - Quote Quote: [FEEDBACK] Re-adjusting heavy dropsuitsUpdate: Balancing work on dropsuits are ongoing, and we will keep you posted with future updates on the results.-á https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=471627#post471627 This post has me worried. I agree that the suit needs some work, but I cant figure out if ccp intends to nerf the heavy suit again. The post is too vague. I just hope that the devs from ccp are able to sort out the QQs of those who have never played a heavy from the actual helpful threads on the subject. Until more info is available ill probably avoid putting more sp into anything exclusively "heavy," such as, hmg, forge, or dropsuits.
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 485	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:43:00 - [2] - Quote I hope they don't nerf the Heavy again its fine where it is.
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:44:00 - [3] - Quote tend to agree. they were bad in the 1st build. fine now.
Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:44:00 - [4] - Quote If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 485	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:46:00 - [5] - Quote Drommy Hood wrote: If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots I bet your HMG is missing shots its not as accurate as a AR at that range.
Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:51:00 - [6] - Quote Drommy Hood wrote: If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots That is probably more gun related than dropsuit. Distance is bad for hmg, but sharpshooter helps. I wont be investing in it until more info is out though. I really need a better forge gun than militia too. I hope info comes soon.
Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:52:00 - [7] - Quote Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: Drommy Hood wrote: If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots I bet your HMG is missing shots its no as accurate as a AR at that range. Your probably right, but still think its silly that a heavy can get battered by a militia suit. Just my QQ. I think the only balancing issue is one that everyone agreed on MONTHS ago, nothing has really changed since them but most people including me had forgotten about it and learned to live with it; that is AR is OP
Noraa Anderson Nox Aeterna Security 184	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:52:00 - [8] - Quote I can feel that nerf hammer lodged in my Heavy's buttocks already. Kinky but uncomfortable.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 92	Posted - 2013.01.16 20:53:00 - [9] - Quote truthfully i think they need a buff, i rarely lose to a heavy anymore, and i dont know if its because of a lack of teamwork or..... idk. Maybe give them an extra high or low slot, bring up there total EHP, lol maybe even give them an additional HP stat called something like "body" or in other words the equivalent of the "hull" in eve online
Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:01:00 - [10] - Quote Marston VC wrote: truthfully i think they need a buff, i rarely lose to a heavy anymore, and i dont know if its because of a lack of teamwork or..... idk. Maybe give them an extra high or low slot, bring up there total EHP, lol maybe even give them an additional HP stat called something like "body" or in other words the equivalent of the "hull" in eve online Thats refreshing. I hope that Wang reads it. ^^

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1594	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:04:00 - [11] - Quote The post doesn't specifically point to either a nerf or buff. It's a toss up. But if the forums have a good enough, and constructive, consensus toward buffing, then we might see some buffs.
General Erick Onslaught Inc 24	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:19:00 - [12] - Quote Leave my suit alone!
MassiveNine Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 100	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:25:00 - [13] - Quote Hope that it's a small(read!) buff, we could really use something that establishes us as what we are, a heavy. I feel we are sometimes a little too easily pushed over.
nepher sesoch DUST University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:26:00 - [14] - Quote A buff to their ability to load armor seems warranted. With relatively low AR skills and the exile AR I can peel the lower tiered heavy suits too well. Even if they arent high tier suits they should be able to laugh me off one and one and that isnt happening. I guess the balance on their strength will need to be balanced relative however to whatever may come out in the future mech or otherwise.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1906	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:33:00 - [15] - Quote This thread honestly surprises me. I feel wicked OP in my fat suit HMG's (not burst) need to overheat just a little bit faster. As it is right now, even before investing in the HMG operation (3% reduced heat build up each level) I haven't once overheated, and I can just sit there and hold down the trigger forever. HMG's need to require more skill to use. Oh, and they need to do more damage at point blank range. I swear, if someone gets in my face, unless they stand perfectly still, I can never kill them
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 485	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:40:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: This thread honestly surprises me. I feel wicked OP in my fat suit HMG's (not burst) need to overheat just a little bit faster. As it is right now, even before investing in the HMG operation (3% reduced heat build up each level) I haven't once overheated, and I can just sit there and hold down the trigger forever. HMG's need to require more skill to use. Oh, and they need to do more damage at point blank range. I swear, if someone gets in my face, unless they stand perfectly still, I can never kill them Mine have over heated before. but I agree Heat build should be increased slightly and I agree with what you say at extreme close range damage should be double.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 712	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:56:00 - [17] - Quote I personally think the Prototype Heavy Dropsuit is broken! 260,000 Isk, and all you get is an extra high slot? It's grossly overpriced. Nah I'm good. They need to either lower the price, or give us more slots (probably low slots for armor plates and repairers) to make it worth buying one. It's been obvious no one barely specs into proto-heavy!
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis 300	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:09:00 - [18] - Quote I love everything about this post. I still stand by my suggestion of increasing Armors resistance to damage instead of increasing the total amount of Armor HP. The suit only serves one purpose due to not having any equipment slots, and that's killing.
Nomed Deeps The Exemplars 91	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:14:00 - [19] - Quote I still think there should be a heavy variant to every weapon. I'd love to see a heavy lazer or a heavy mass driver. Right now as a heavy, all you have to choose from is Forge or HMG.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:18:00 - [20] - Quote Drommy Hood wrote: If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots that's because an HMG has a wide damage spread. The further out you are, the wider the "cone of fire" (Yes this is real terminology used by machinegunners) get, and the less rounds will strike on average per target. CCP has kindly included this effect for our benefit. So the Assault rifle is accurate at 50, because it is a point-fire weapon. the HMG is an area suppression weapon. Maybe 1 out of 10 of your HMG rounds are hitting AR gumby, when he's nailing you with 50-90% of his shots. The math is not in your favor. In CQC when his assault suit fills your aim circle, the odds swing wildly back your way because 90% of your rounds will hit him, and you fire three for every one of his. heavies work well in a defensive formation/position, but tend to get eaten alive when attacking unless there's ample cover and concealment. Do I think heavies are balanced? hell no. the ISK/SP cost versus effectiveness is wildly in the favor of assault and logistics. scouts are in a class all on their own. I'm doing phenomenally better as an assault than I ever did as a heavy, same with Logi over heavy. he only time fatsuits kill me is when they catch me by surprise.

Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 915	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:22:00 - [21] - Quote Drommy Hood wrote: If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots By definition, an HMG is a spray weapon. This is logical that you are safer the further out you are (and yes I play as heavy on one of my alts).
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 915	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:25:00 - [22] - Quote Drommy Hood wrote: Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: Drommy Hood wrote: If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots I bet your HMG is missing shots its no as accurate as a AR at that range. Your probably right, but still think its silly that a heavy can get battered by a militia suit. Just my QQ. I think the only balancing issue is one that everyone agreed on MONTHS ago, nothing has really changed since them but most people including me had forgotten about it and learned to live with it; that is AR is OP The entire game is OP. I demand kittens! In seriousness, though, the AR is an all purpose weapon and is not OP. Skills points and player skill make any weapon seem that way. If this were true, then when a full team of Assault with AR engaged a full team of Heavy with HMG, your logic would say that the Assaults would win. They don't. I know from experience.
Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:26:00 - [23] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: This thread honestly surprises me. I feel wicked OP in my fat suit HMG's (not burst) need to overheat just a little bit faster. As it is right now, even before investing in the HMG operation (3% reduced heat build up each level) I haven't once overheated, and I can just sit there and hold down the trigger forever. HMG's need to require more skill to use. Oh, and they need to do more damage at point blank range. I swear, if someone gets in my face, unless they stand perfectly still, I can never kill them So you think HMG's are OP, but what about dropsuits? that seems to be what Wang was referring to. To address HMG's, they should be feared. I can't think of any hollywood movies where the guy with the minigun didn't pwn everything in his path. And we're heavies, so the one thing we do is kill. We don't hack (much), repair, revive, replenish ammo, or whatever else gets people to the top 3 at the end of the match. Others can do that, and I'll do my best to provide cover by killing whoever approaches. I think that's the way it should be. I do overheat, and typically at the most in-opportune times. It's easily manageable, but I definitely let go of the trigger on occasion. more sp to use? I'm cool with that. I think if you really enjoy playing the heavy, you probably won't mind investing more sp to be good at it. I do wish that the cost of higher tier gear for the heavy was more in-line with others. We're not immortal, but you can't afford to die in high tier isk gear. And the cost/benefit ratio is too high.
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 915	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:27:00 - [24] - Quote Marston VC wrote: truthfully i think they need a buff, i rarely lose to a heavy anymore, and i dont know if its because of a lack of teamwork or..... idk. Maybe give them an extra high or low slot, bring up there total EHP, lol maybe even give them an additional HP stat called something like "body" or in other words the equivalent of the "hull" in eve online Most heavies are in Militia which has about as many hit points as a Type B assault suit total that is fully specced, with about a quarter of the mobility. This means they are easy to kill for a skilled player (like you). Better Heavy suits take more SP to spec into. As players accrue the SP, you will find them more deadly again.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:31:00 - [25] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: This thread honestly surprises me. I feel wicked OP in my fat suit HMG's (not burst) need to overheat just a little bit faster. As it is right now, even before investing in the HMG operation (3% reduced heat build up each level) I haven't once overheated, and I can just sit there and hold down the trigger forever. HMG's need to require more skill to use. Oh, and they need to do more damage at point blank range. I swear, if someone gets in my face, unless they stand perfectly still, I can never kill them So you think HMG's are OP, but what about dropsuits? that seems to be what Wang was referring to. To address HMG's, they should be feared. I can't think of any hollywood movies where the guy with the minigun didn't pwn everything in his path. And we're heavies, so the one thing we do is kill. We don't hack (much), repair, revive, replenish ammo, or whatever else gets people to the top 3 at the end of the match. Others can do that, and I'll do my best to provide cover by killing whoever approaches. I think that's the way it should be. I do overheat, and typically at the most in-opportune times. It's easily manageable, but I definitely let go of the trigger on occasion. more sp to use? I'm cool with that. I think if you really enjoy playing the heavy, you probably won't mind investing more sp to be good at it. I do wish that the cost of higher tier gear for the heavy was more in-line with others. We're not immortal, but you can't afford to die in high tier isk gear. And the cost/benefit ratio is too high. this is correct. there is no point to bringing a big gun on the field if said big gun does not offer a significant increase in overall firepower over small arms. Plus, given that HMGs start at twice the cost of same-tier ARs and the gap widens at each tier, I do not believe that the HMG should be nerfed to merely AR effectiveness. If I have to pay 100k ISK PER DROPSUIT for a proto HMG then goddammit I want 100k of destructive potential PER DROPSUIT. (actual prices may vary, but the point stands) Edit: and SCREW HOLLYWOOD. I've seen what miniguns can do IRL with my own eyes, and if I were on the recieving end i would be making peace with God on the spot. Let's just say the HMGs in this game are slightly less effective equivalently than a real life M-249 SAW. Here's a picture for reference M-249 SAW
Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:34:00 - [26] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Marston VC wrote: truthfully i think they need a buff, i rarely lose to a heavy anymore, and i dont know if its because of a lack of teamwork or..... idk. Maybe give them an extra high or low slot, bring up there total EHP, lol maybe even give them an additional HP stat called something like "body" or in other words the equivalent of the "hull" in eve online Most heavies are in Militia which has about as many hit points as a Type B assault suit total that is fully specced, with about a quarter of the mobility. This means they are easy to kill for a skilled player (like you). Better Heavy suits take more SP to spec into. As players accrue the SP, you will find them more deadly again. That's what I'm hoping for, right now, I'm wishing I'd spec'd scout and shoty again, but I'm hoping the heavy will be more formidable at the top end. Before the wipe and the reason I chose to spec into heavies was they where the only real rival I had on the battlefield as a shot gun scout. I'm sure ill get the hang of it and start coming consistently top of the board again soon (atleast I hope!! Spent far to much sp's on the heavy to pull them out again now).
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:36:00 - [27] - Quote Drommy Hood wrote: That's what I'm hoping for, right now, I'm wishing I'd spec'd scout and shoty again, but I'm hoping the heavy will be more formidable at the top end. Before the wipe and the reason I chose to spec into heavies was they where the only real rival I had on the battlefield as a shot gun scout. I'm sure ill get the hang of it and start coming consistently top of the board again soon (atleast I hope!! Spent far to much sp's on the heavy to pull them out again now). Don't buy the VK.1 proto. VK.0 is barely worth the cost, and even that is debatable. Most heavies stop at the Level 3-4 fatsuits due to the lack of anything really significant changing if you upgrade. I think you pay 100k ISK more for a couple points of PG/CPU is all. And Fitting a fatty isn't usually the problem.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1906	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:36:00 - [28] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: So you think HMG's are OP, but what about dropsuits? that seems to be what Wang was referring to. I think we could use a slight buff to PG / CPU, and it would be nice to see more shield variant heavies. I'm not a fan of the all armor heavy, I like having shield rechargers so I can duck in and out of cover to get more longevity out of my suit. It sucks knowing that I have to save up a little 1 million SP (that's gonna take a while....) to get to the next level of shield suit, which doesn't offer a whole lot extra over the L2 suit that I use right now. I don't really know though, I don't claim to understand balance. All I know is I eat people alive, especially when I'm rolling with a halfway descent squad
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:45:00 - [29] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Stinker Butt wrote: So you think HMG's are OP, but what about dropsuits? that seems to be what Wang was referring to. I think we could use a slight buff to PG / CPU, and it would be nice to see more shield variant heavies. I'm not a fan of the all armor heavy, I like having shield rechargers so I can duck in and out of cover to get more longevity out of my suit. It sucks knowing that I have to save up a little 1 million SP (that's gonna take a while....) to get to the next level of shield suit, which doesn't offer a whole lot extra over the L2 suit that I use right now. I don't really know though, I don't claim to understand balance. All I know is I eat people alive, especially when I'm rolling with a halfway descent squad you will have a nerdgasm when the caldari and winmatar heavies emerge from the primordial goo then. Both races primarily shield tank.
Stinker Butt Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.01.16 22:46:00 - [30] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I don't really know though, I don't claim to understand balance. All I know is I eat people alive, especially when I'm rolling with a halfway descent squad I'm sure you've considered the fact that you may actually be a better player than most. perhaps ccp can just nerf you for balance purposes.



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