[FEEDBACK] Re-adjusting heavy dropsuitsUpdate: Balancing work on dropsuits are ongoing, and we will keep you posted with future updates on the results.-á

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=471627#post471627

If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots

If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots

I bet your HMG is missing shots its no as accurate as a AR at that range.

truthfully i think they need a buff, i rarely lose to a heavy anymore, and i dont know if its because of a lack of teamwork or..... idk. Maybe give them an extra high or low slot, bring up there total EHP, lol maybe even give them an additional HP stat called something like "body" or in other words the equivalent of the "hull" in eve online

This thread honestly surprises me. I feel wicked OP in my fat suit

HMG's (not burst) need to overheat just a little bit faster. As it is right now, even before investing in the HMG operation (3% reduced heat build up each level) I haven't once overheated, and I can just sit there and hold down the trigger forever.

HMG's need to require more skill to use. Oh, and they need to do more damage at point blank range. I swear, if someone gets in my face, unless they stand perfectly still, I can never kill them

If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots

If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots

Your probably right, but still think its silly that a heavy can get battered by a militia suit. Just my QQ. I think the only balancing issue is one that everyone agreed on MONTHS ago, nothing has really changed since them but most people including me had forgotten about it and learned to live with it; that is AR is OP

This thread honestly surprises me. I feel wicked OP in my fat suit

HMG's (not burst) need to overheat just a little bit faster. As it is right now, even before investing in the HMG operation (3% reduced heat build up each level) I haven't once overheated, and I can just sit there and hold down the trigger forever.

HMG's need to require more skill to use. Oh, and they need to do more damage at point blank range. I swear, if someone gets in my face, unless they stand perfectly still, I can never kill them

truthfully i think they need a buff, i rarely lose to a heavy anymore, and i dont know if its because of a lack of teamwork or..... idk. Maybe give them an extra high or low slot, bring up there total EHP, lol maybe even give them an additional HP stat called something like "body" or in other words the equivalent of the "hull" in eve online

So you think HMG's are OP, but what about dropsuits? that seems to be what Wang was referring to.

To address HMG's, they should be feared. I can't think of any hollywood movies where the guy with the minigun didn't pwn everything in his path. And we're heavies, so the one thing we do is kill. We don't hack (much), repair, revive, replenish ammo, or whatever else gets people to the top 3 at the end of the match. Others can do that, and I'll do my best to provide cover by killing whoever approaches. I think that's the way it should be. I do overheat, and typically at the most in-opportune times. It's easily manageable, but I definitely let go of the trigger on occasion.

more sp to use? I'm cool with that. I think if you really enjoy playing the heavy, you probably won't mind investing more sp to be good at it.

I do wish that the cost of higher tier gear for the heavy was more in-line with others. We're not immortal, but you can't afford to die in high tier isk gear. And the cost/benefit ratio is too high.

Most heavies are in Militia which has about as many hit points as a Type B assault suit total that is fully specced, with about a quarter of the mobility. This means they are easy to kill for a skilled player (like you).

Better Heavy suits take more SP to spec into. As players accrue the SP, you will find them more deadly again.

That's what I'm hoping for, right now, I'm wishing I'd spec'd scout and shoty again, but I'm hoping the heavy will be more formidable at the top end. Before the wipe and the reason I chose to spec into heavies was they where the only real rival I had on the battlefield as a shot gun scout. I'm sure ill get the hang of it and start coming consistently top of the board again soon (atleast I hope!! Spent far to much sp's on the heavy to pull them out again now).

So you think HMG's are OP, but what about dropsuits? that seems to be what Wang was referring to.

I think we could use a slight buff to PG / CPU, and it would be nice to see more shield variant heavies. I'm not a fan of the all armor heavy, I like having shield rechargers so I can duck in and out of cover to get more longevity out of my suit. It sucks knowing that I have to save up a little 1 million SP (that's gonna take a while....) to get to the next level of shield suit, which doesn't offer a whole lot extra over the L2 suit that I use right now.

I don't really know though, I don't claim to understand balance. All I know is I eat people alive, especially when I'm rolling with a halfway descent squad

I don't really know though, I don't claim to understand balance. All I know is I eat people alive, especially when I'm rolling with a halfway descent squad

I'm sure you've considered the fact that you may actually be a better player than most. perhaps ccp can just nerf you for balance purposes.

The heavy suit feels about right in terms of armour hitpoints atm.

Really not. there's no weapon that doesn't chew them up and spit them out in rapid order. heavies should be able to at least hit 1k HP total between armor and shields. At the proto level. But this doesn't happen.

I stopped at the B series in the last build with no regrets. Want to know how to waste 1.2m sp? Go proto heavy.

Really not. there's no weapon that doesn't chew them up and spit them out in rapid order. heavies should be able to at least hit 1k HP total between armor and shields. At the proto level. But this doesn't happen.

Yea, but I'm definitely not as good as the Zitros or some of their boys, yet I get similar scores in my fat suit, so it does make me curious lol. CCP should do that though, anyone who goes over a certain KD/R or whatever automatically starts taking % penalties across the board.

Last build my type 2 heavy hit 1.1K HP with mechanics V, shield control iV, two complex shield extenders and one complex armor. So, a heavy is fine when you're all the way skilled and moded up. Sure hope they don't nerf it... I'd hate to have wasted all my SP, like I did last build when I specked into small and large missile turrets.

The HMG has way too much range and a ridiculous clip size.

The HMG has way too much range and a ridiculous clip size. People asking for a buff to heavies completely baffle me.

The HMG has way too much range and a ridiculous clip size. People asking for a buff to heavies completely baffle me.

Last build my type 2 heavy hit 1.1K HP with mechanics V, shield control iV, two complex shield extenders and one complex armor. So, a heavy is fine when you're all the way skilled and moded up. Sure hope they don't nerf it... I'd hate to have wasted all my SP, like I did last build when I specked into small and large missile turrets.

I dont think anybody asked for the HMG to be buffed. They are talking about the suit.

Clip size is balanced by the fact that it takes 10 seconds to reload - almost guaranteed death in the heat of battle.

Too much range? I think most would disagree.

The HMG is so effective already that there is no need for any sort of buff making heavies more powerful then they already are. If they were to buff the suit the HMG would need a nerf to make up for it.

I don't think heavies were intended to be one man armies. They're supposed to be playing a support role (currently nobody uses it this way) and be an effective anti-vehicle class (which it's so bad at that anyone with flux grenades can play this role better).

For the record: at no point are any of my arguments in favor of either buffing or nerfing HMGs or forge guns. My posts in this thread are SOLELY directed at the complete lack of real survivability, damage or utility increase between the advanced and prototype tier heavy dropsuits.

that was a blanket statement, because the posts were getting off-topic and I was hoping to bring it back on track. The heavy suits at the prototype level need a boost or a price drop. The HMG is a completely separate issue and bluntly the HMG is easy to eliminate from the battlefield. TOO easy to eliminate given that a heavy dropsuit fit costs anywhere up to 4 times that of a assault for very little gained in destructive potential or survivability, since armor tanking is currently inferior to shield tank in every possible way.


Edited: Look before you Post breakin Stuff

putting armor plates on a heavy is wrong.

once the assault dropsuit players are running advanced dropsuits with advanced guns and advanced modules with the support skills dialled up to 11 we will be right back to where we ended last build, with heavy dropsuits being used as practice for easy AR kills, a mildly diverting activity I must say.

at low levels the heavies are ferocious against militia, standard and some advanced. at advanced, heavies absolutely shred advanced. at proto, heavies absolutely wish they hadn't wasted the ISK and SP.

Not if you have a dedicated healer with you

that's because an HMG has a wide damage spread. The further out you are, the wider the "cone of fire" (Yes this is real terminology used by machinegunners) get, and the less rounds will strike on average per target. CCP has kindly included this effect for our benefit.

So the Assault rifle is accurate at 50, because it is a point-fire weapon. the HMG is an area suppression weapon. Maybe 1 out of 10 of your HMG rounds are hitting AR gumby, when he's nailing you with 50-90% of his shots. The math is not in your favor.

In CQC when his assault suit fills your aim circle, the odds swing wildly back your way because 90% of your rounds will hit him, and you fire three for every one of his.

heavies work well in a defensive formation/position, but tend to get eaten alive when attacking unless there's ample cover and concealment. Do I think heavies are balanced?

hell no. the ISK/SP cost versus effectiveness is wildly in the favor of assault and logistics. scouts are in a class all on their own. I'm doing phenomenally better as an assault than I ever did as a heavy, same with Logi over heavy. he only time fatsuits kill me is when they catch me by surprise.

It's not just assaults, what about shotgun scouts with dampeners and speed boosters? or prototype lasers? And for a little while longer we get to enjoy not being OHK'd by every sniper on the map. I'm fine with it and I expect to lose some clones. I just don't want it to be worse than it is.

If they are going to nerf the Type I/Type II suit, then I do hope they boost up the prototype suit a bit to make it worthy of being prototype.



I had one type A heavy suit on last build that was only used with a logi. It worked well.

Milk

Not for those with lactose intolerance.

Heavy suits don't need a nerf, the HMG does.

Heavies IMO should be the infantry based tanks to take on vehicles and take a severe beating from those vehicles. But as it is now, the HMG is just too powerful for such a high-health suit going up against other significantly weaker infantry players. Heavies ought to be mainly used against vehicles, but not much more than that. Their role against other infantry players should be very minor (only as a support role) and not nearly as effective as it is now.

The MH 82 already has the lowest DPS of every weapon in the game. Even the the officer version (the Gaston) has less than a Toxin SMG. The assault and burst equivalents even less DPS. Rate of fire marginally makes up for this due to accuracy. Yes, its a powerfull weapon when used properly. So is a shotgun on a scout suit with kinetic catalysers and profile dampners. They kill heavys all the time. We dont yell OP over it. We cuss at the t.v. and then respawn.

The MH 82 already has the lowest DPS of every weapon in the game. Even the the officer version (the Gaston) has less than a Toxin SMG. The assault and burst equivalents even less DPS. Rate of fire marginally makes up for this due to accuracy. Yes, its a powerfull weapon when used properly. So is a shotgun on a scout suit with kinetic catalysers and profile dampners. They kill heavys all the time. We dont yell OP over it. We cuss at the t.v. and then respawn.

The MH 82 already has the lowest DPS of every weapon in the game. Even the the officer version (the Gaston) has less than a Toxin SMG. The assault and burst equivalents even less DPS. Rate of fire marginally makes up for this due to accuracy. Yes, its a powerfull weapon when used properly. So is a shotgun on a scout suit with kinetic catalysers and profile dampners. They kill heavys all the time. We dont yell OP over it. We cuss at the t.v. and then respawn.

Actually it has higher DPS. Damage per second. It has the higher because of the rof. More rof = more DPS.

I think you mean pure DPB... Damage per bullet. And it has the lowest damage simply because the HMG would be OP if it spit out 30 dmg bullets with a 2k rof.

DPS=Damage Per Shot.
ROF=Rate Of Fire

Heavy suits don't need a nerf, the HMG does.

Heavies IMO should be the infantry based tanks to take on vehicles and take a severe beating from those vehicles. But as it is now, the HMG is just too powerful for such a high-health suit going up against other significantly weaker infantry players. Heavies ought to be mainly used against vehicles, but not much more than that. Their role against other infantry players should be very minor (only as a support role) and not nearly as effective as it is now.

no. double armor half range wouldn't solve the problem. it'd simply make them more ineffective.

you run from heavies by bolting behind cover. If I had a nickel for every person who complained about HMGs being overpowered and a dime for every time I've seen a heavy absolutely annihilate everyone on the field, I'd Have a 10-1 ratio of nickels to dimes.

How is a class that requires 50% more expensive in SP and 400% as expensive per fit in ISK being dangerous on the field and capable of doing significant destruction unfair? Heavies must pay very dearly in order to be effective. Because in three weeks from now we're going to see heavies absolutely get their asses used as everyone's punch dummy. Unless they stay with two specific suits. In which case they break even.

If you nerf heavies further, the SP cost and ISK cost needs to drop sharply.

Huh... I've never thought of the heavies as weak in this build, I always find them extremely overwhelming unless they're militia fits. They take so much to kill and HMGs kill in an instant when in the right range and still have good range. I'm mainly an assault player but made a heavy today and capped it out on SP and after getting the type I suit I felt extremely OP lol. A bit slow, but eh, it's easy to keep within HMGs distance unless I spawn on the outskirts of a map.

Diggin it, I could get used to being a walking tank. Fuse grenades are such a hard counter that it's ridiculous though.

At your level, they may be a bit OP to others in militia gear, but the point is that it wont get much better as you advance. Just wait until you're level 5 with a few skills and see which gear you're still using. So if ccp decides to "balance" us in a negative way, then they will likely not be able to serve the role that they are intended. They've essentially said that the heavy suit is going to change for balance, so I'm curious what they're thoughts are about it. I know that I just have to wait, but i'm not sure that I want to skill further into it.

Heavies kill. I don't understand why that upsets so many others. If you want some extra war points, throw a repair nanohive at my feet and I'll happily fill up.

think of prototype gear with proto mods as 100% efficiency. Level 1 heavy is 70% Type 2 is 85%, level 3 is 93% and the rest drops sharply from there when you consider heavies.

assault get linear gains. The heavies gain very little after type 2 armor, which you need amarr heavy dropsuits at 2 for.

This is about as good as the heavy game gets.

think of prototype gear with proto mods as 100% efficiency. Level 1 heavy is 70% Type 2 is 85%, level 3 is 93% and the rest drops sharply from there when you consider heavies.

assault get linear gains. The heavies gain very little after type 2 armor, which you need amarr heavy dropsuits at 2 for.

This is about as good as the heavy game gets.

I wouldn't worry about the QQing my heavy brothers once the Ass guys get their Duvolles back they'll be happy again. I got more hate mail last night, some blueberry couldn't kill me. I laughed because he 1 stood still, 2 didn't throw grenades and 3 though I was cheating!!! No afraid not but over the last few builds I have been mapping a dedicated skill progression for my heavy and the key thing I have found to get early on is field mechanics to level 5 early on to give you a longer life expectancy IMHO. But we'll just need to see where CCP go with the heavy, how i miss the early days with 25 damage per shot and 3000 RPM HMG, good times...

Regards Snag

I wouldn't worry about the QQing my heavy brothers once the Ass guys get their Duvolles back they'll be happy again. I got more hate mail last night, some blueberry couldn't kill me. I laughed because he 1 stood still, 2 didn't throw grenades and 3 though I was cheating!!! No afraid not but over the last few builds I have been mapping a dedicated skill progression for my heavy and the key thing I have found to get early on is field mechanics to level 5 early on to give you a longer life expectancy IMHO. But we'll just need to see where CCP go with the heavy, how i miss the early days with 25 damage per shot and 3000 RPM HMG, good times...

Regards Snag

If anything they need a boost. My hmg vs standard assault rifle at say 50m and even with my superior Hp and my aurum gun I can still go down first if neither of us are missing shots

A boost ? cut the crap. At 50m, your HMG shouldnt be accurate... HMG range has already been boosted way too much since codex. Or at least the accuracy\range ratio. In fact, the specificity of the HMG that required the HMG to fire shots and get accurate over time is now gone. And that's just bad.

Why was a blueberry trying to kill you?

Personally, the heavy suit needs a bit of an HP buff to go with a new reason to spend the 260, 000 ISK on Proto Vk. 1. The fact that the shield based Type 2 series and up have no incentive beyond the redistribution of HP to more being in shields, which in turn makes the suit a bit faster. There is no difference in slots, PG, or CPU on the suit. I figure IF i give up some of the armor and replace it with shields, it would make sense to have a slightly expanded CPU and PG, and possibly an equipment slot (would be great for my Heavy Glass fit) or possibly one more high or low slot on the suit to really differentiate the roles each suit plays currently.

What about some different weapons that would also help define the potential roles of the heavy? And how is this going to work when more racially focused variants of the suits become available? Will they have to go through a huge rebalancing issue again?

A boost ? cut the crap. At 50m, your HMG shouldnt be accurate... HMG range has already been boosted way too much since codex. Or at least the accuracy\range ratio. In fact, the specificity of the HMG that required the HMG to fire shots and get accurate over time is now gone. And that's just bad.

They should have HP buffed but they won't, because they can use every other weapon. A buffed heavy with a laser rifle will be called OP. Just limit them to forge and HMG and take away half of HMG range, or allow assault to carry LMG's. <<< (not being serious)

They won't get a buff. Maybe a lower price.

I personally think the Prototype Heavy Dropsuit is broken! 260,000 Isk, and all you get is an extra high slot? It's grossly overpriced.

Nah I'm good. They need to either lower the price, or give us more slots (probably low slots for armor plates and repairers) to make it worth buying one. It's been obvious no one barely specs into proto-heavy!

I rock the the Raven Assault suit, been playing for about 2 days now and rarly encounter heavies, And when I do there just players who think there Superman and sit in one spot spamming there HMG.. Needless 2 say, Get out of the way and out smart them? As far as I can tell avoid open conflict with them and play smart.. There suppose to win every head 2 head fight? There heavy armored and got a bigg ass HMG why would you try to face them lol..

Wow. I never thought of that, Sensei. Thanks sooooooo much for sharing Your Holy Awesomeness.

Your probably right, but still think its silly that a heavy can get battered by a militia suit. Just my QQ. I think the only balancing issue is one that everyone agreed on MONTHS ago, nothing has really changed since them but most people including me had forgotten about it and learned to live with it; that is AR is OP