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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2865
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 15:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Because the as a Council Stellar Manager elected official by the players for the players to give the developers a real piece of our mind, IT'S @#$% HIS JOB! Of course there are plenty of lag, they're basically ECHOING our concerns. Majority of the issues brought up by the CSM are very well known by the eve community in one shape form or another. Hell I live in high sec and know every single complaint about low and null sec mentioned in the CSM minutes when they're bought up. That's how bad it lags but I sleep better at night knowing that CSM has expressively pushed the top concerns onto CCP and force CCP to acknowledge something is just not right in some places.
Rewind to the whole Incarna fiasco. CSM consistently expressed concerns it added little to no game play value, CCP ignored them. This resulted in probably the largest loss of Eve players to date, forcing the firing of 20% of CCP staff, another delay in World of Darkness. and scrapping a lot of previous plans in eve development schedule.
My overall general consensus gathering of the Eve population's opinion on Dust 514 is... they're afraid... they are truly afraid dust 514 is going destroy eve online.
While we may find this far less informative when you have people running community errands from developers to you guys on a near daily bases constantly keeping you guys up in the know-what's-up soon. Its all because what I and my fellow community builders know I can freely share with you guys. I cannot do this for eve pilots, constantly regret sharing frustration with the NDA over it. There are eve pilots genuinely still believing we'll will be taking over their PI infrastructure, their FW Sov, destroying years worth of market foundations, and even flipping year's worth of building an empire sovereignty and they'd be powerless to stop it.
Some empires in Eve are 10 years in the making, they have every right to be afraid, and in all honesty I would not be surprised if CCP itself was afraid over this project. Props for CCP for actually doing something other than fantasizing about a day where two games are in the same universe, an industry major first almost. |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
142
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 01:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: This was your primary concern when speaking to CCP? Why are people so impatient? No sh*t CCP acknowledged we are in closed beta. As they said last year at the EVE Fanfest, they are just focussing on getting the core game play going. Some dude even asked if we would one day be able to boards EVE ships and CCP basically said it would be easy to do in the future but...BUT! They wanted to focus on core game play. Is breaching an EVE ship as a DUST merc enough depth for the EVE-DUST link for you?
Man...I hope your future sessions come off as being more productive.
HA. This has nothing to do with impatience. This has everything to do with the fact that you all have compared this game to a hundred other shooters, and what stands out as the shining beacon of separation between Dust 514 and other shooters (besides the customization and death of gear, which is cool) is the fact that you're playing in (and hopefully affecting) the EVE universe. Up until recently, that has been the big focus of nearly 100% of marketing dollars spent.
If Dust 514 goes "live" in the mass media, not-beta, "real game now" sense, and there is no game between the two games, a paper thin link that allows Dust 514 mercs to affect capsuleers, but not the other way around, a lot of those marketing dollars backfire. Even a shift towards "PS3's first free-to-play MMOFPS" as the tagline won't be enough, they've already spent years marketing the cross-platform gameplay.
So yeah, its a big deal to the CSM, and it should be to you as well. All the patience in the world as a beta participant doesn't change the fact that the CSM is notoriously good at spotting these sort of business-case issues far in advance, and when CCP hasn't listened in the past, its cost them dearly. Thankfully, the developers have been quite cool about accepting criticism in the spirit it was intended, not taking it personally, and putting forth extra effort to bring us up to speed with the advance plans they have in place to address some of this. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2865
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 01:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
This post needs glue. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 01:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
crazy space 2100046106 wrote:PI in eve needs to be scraped and replaced with something that dust works into like we were promised
PI 2.0 on the Features and Ideas forum on the EVE Online site would cover it perfectly. |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 11:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:crazy space 2100046106 wrote:PI in eve needs to be scraped and replaced with something that dust works into like we were promised PI 2.0 on the Features and Ideas forum on the EVE Online site would cover it perfectly.
There needs to be much more than JUST PI though.
I think CCP have that in the works though, just looking at some of the models they have groundside get's my interest going as the functions of some of them are pretty obvious and could open up some very interesting stuff. |
Ghural
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 12:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
At the moment Dust and EVE feel like separate games with a shared chat room.
Part of the problem is that Dust players have a pretty limited window into the EVE universe at the moment. Apart from the chat. Thats it. if a player has no experience of EVE then they are going to struggle to understand the possibilities available to them.
It might be interesting to hear more about what the CSM thinks would need to be included to fulfil the vision CCP displays in their trailer.
Is it Dust players being the medium through which EVE players can disrupt planetary interaction in EVE? Is it being able to meet Dust players in stations? Is it being able to watch and bet on the outcome of Dust matches in EVE
For me, the most important question is "why should Dust players care about EVE?".
Most of the time you all come across as a bunch of whiney space brats with more money than sense.
If you really want EVE players to care about Dust. Then give us the ability to truly **** you over, to gank you, to grief you, to make you angry enough to want to kill us from orbit.
If you want Dust players to care about EVE players, then allow us to meet you in a bar so we can buy illegal boosters that give us an edge in battle. Or build weapons from exotic alien materials for us.
If nothing else, the connection between EVE and Dust needs to be profound at launch. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 13:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Well done, Heinrich-Hans quantum-entangled bro entity thingie.
The feedback is much appreciated. We as a playerbase need to keep ourselves as well-informed as possible and your post helps.
We all know we're(Dust players, CCP, and Eve players) engaged in a collective grand experiment, and I think that it's becoming clearer that we are not out of the woods yet. In fact, we're prolly just entering the Fire Swamp as we speak.
Core mechanics was the easy part(and they're not done yet, CCP - if you forget this i will hound you to the very gates of hell!), but it is what comes next that will make or break us.
With a game having metagaming like Eve's getting things like match/FW/sov dynamics right is a BIG ask. Not to mention ISK/loyalty points/AUR. The system is non-linear and chaotic(for real), and it is impossible to predict exactly what effect changes to game rules will have. CCP knows this and is going to be very cautious in the weeks/months to come. As they should - these are dark and uncharted waters, and what is at risk is literally precious.
If we and CCP fail at making this game a success, that's literally the end of it - no other developer will even think about attempting something as batshit crazy as this for at least a decade. All industry eyes are on CCP right now, and if I had to guess I'd say the bets have largely been laid against them. CCP is the crazy viking who has stepped alone into the cave inhabited by we-know-not-what with only a torch and a battle-ax, and the whole industry is waiting to see if they come back dead, broken or a hero worthy of the sagas.
We, the players have a role in this - because we've stepped into that dark place with them.
So bring your best beta-tester game, peeps. This time it counts. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 13:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:+1 but... That's a lot of chatter about ISKs... but if I may be so bold... planetary interaction? From my perspective, the link needs to be stronger than just ISK. EvE with no industry would not function. Dust without industry will not function. It's all about the PI. Even if it starts out as something like a Facebook game for the first few months. Then they can add a similar option to Captains Quaters. All IMHO ;)
You're right Tony, but you've got the wrong target. PI is a side game in EVE. It's useful and would be a good income stream for us Dust mercs(given our cost of doing business), but on Eve's industrial scale it's akin to a one-man pottery shop - virtually meaningless.
The target we should all have in our sight is Technetium and the other moon minerals. This is the game, this is the oil, this is what is worth going to war over and slaughtering million of innocents if necessary. An alliance without TECH is nothing, the best they can aspire to is loyal lapdog status.
What we mercs need is a game mechanic that allows us to fight for the Tech and take it - and then take it we will.
The first time such a thing happens, all of New Eden will shudder. Their collective balls will shrivel and pull up inside their bodies. Because at that point they will know they have become engaged in a fight to the death.
And if the game mechanics offer a reasonable playing field, we can win that fight. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 13:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Because the as a Council Stellar Manager elected official by the players for the players to give the developers a real piece of our mind, IT'S @#$% HIS JOB! Of course there are plenty of lag, they're basically ECHOING our concerns. Majority of the issues brought up by the CSM are very well known by the eve community in one shape form or another. Hell I live in high sec and know every single complaint about low and null sec mentioned in the CSM minutes when they're bought up. That's how bad it lags but I sleep better at night knowing that CSM has expressively pushed the top concerns onto CCP and force CCP to acknowledge something is just not right in some places.
Rewind to the whole Incarna fiasco. CSM consistently expressed concerns it added little to no game play value, CCP ignored them. This resulted in probably the largest loss of Eve players to date, forcing the firing of 20% of CCP staff, another delay in World of Darkness. and scrapping a lot of previous plans in eve development schedule.
My overall general consensus gathering of the Eve population's opinion on Dust 514 is... they're afraid... they are truly afraid dust 514 is going destroy eve online.
While we may find this far less informative when you have people running community errands from developers to you guys on a near daily bases constantly keeping you guys up in the know-what's-up soon. Its all because what I and my fellow community builders know I can freely share with you guys. I cannot do this for eve pilots, constantly regret sharing frustration with the NDA over it. There are eve pilots genuinely still believing we'll will be taking over their PI infrastructure, their FW Sov, destroying years worth of market foundations, and even flipping year's worth of building an empire sovereignty and they'd be powerless to stop it.
Some empires in Eve are 10 years in the making, they have every right to be afraid, and in all honesty I would not be surprised if CCP itself was afraid over this project. Props for CCP for actually doing something other than fantasizing about a day where two games are in the same universe, an industry major first almost. My bolding, because this is as true as true can be.
To paraphrase an old Mashall, 'Any alliance that's not afraid, that alliance is a fool'. |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 15:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Tony Calif wrote:+1 but... That's a lot of chatter about ISKs... but if I may be so bold... planetary interaction? From my perspective, the link needs to be stronger than just ISK. EvE with no industry would not function. Dust without industry will not function. It's all about the PI. Even if it starts out as something like a Facebook game for the first few months. Then they can add a similar option to Captains Quaters. All IMHO ;) You're right Tony, but you've got the wrong target. PI is a side game in EVE. It's useful and would be a good income stream for us Dust mercs(given our cost of doing business), but on Eve's industrial scale it's akin to a one-man pottery shop - virtually meaningless. The target we should all have in our sight is Technetium and the other moon minerals. This is the game, this is the oil, this is what is worth going to war over and slaughtering million of innocents if necessary. An alliance without TECH is nothing, the best they can aspire to is loyal lapdog status. What we mercs need is a game mechanic that allows us to fight for the Tech and take it - and then take it we will. The first time such a thing happens, all of New Eden will shudder. Their collective balls will shrivel and pull up inside their bodies. Because at that point they will know they have become engaged in a fight to the death. And if the game mechanics offer a reasonable playing field, we can win that fight.
Thats not going to happen because CCP already want to take all out Tech moons from us. They plan to revamp that whole system with ring mining so tech won't be as valuable as it is now anyway.
DUST needs an even bigger impact than the technetium market because its already being looked at. |
|
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Tony Calif wrote:+1 but... That's a lot of chatter about ISKs... but if I may be so bold... planetary interaction? From my perspective, the link needs to be stronger than just ISK. EvE with no industry would not function. Dust without industry will not function. It's all about the PI. Even if it starts out as something like a Facebook game for the first few months. Then they can add a similar option to Captains Quaters. All IMHO ;) You're right Tony, but you've got the wrong target. PI is a side game in EVE. It's useful and would be a good income stream for us Dust mercs(given our cost of doing business), but on Eve's industrial scale it's akin to a one-man pottery shop - virtually meaningless. The target we should all have in our sight is Technetium and the other moon minerals. This is the game, this is the oil, this is what is worth going to war over and slaughtering million of innocents if necessary. An alliance without TECH is nothing, the best they can aspire to is loyal lapdog status. What we mercs need is a game mechanic that allows us to fight for the Tech and take it - and then take it we will. The first time such a thing happens, all of New Eden will shudder. Their collective balls will shrivel and pull up inside their bodies. Because at that point they will know they have become engaged in a fight to the death. And if the game mechanics offer a reasonable playing field, we can win that fight. Thats not going to happen because CCP already want to take all out Tech moons from us. They plan to revamp that whole system with ring mining so tech won't be as valuable as it is now anyway. DUST needs an even bigger impact than the technetium market because its already being looked at. What you say is true, i'm hoping myself that DUST is somehow incorporated into ring mining. But the point is that the wealth in EVE is being generated primarily by the T2 extraction/refining/reacting/manufacturing chain. I don't care what it is, so long as we mercs have a chance at owning it. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
358
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 01:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Tony Calif wrote:+1 but... That's a lot of chatter about ISKs... but if I may be so bold... planetary interaction? From my perspective, the link needs to be stronger than just ISK. EvE with no industry would not function. Dust without industry will not function. It's all about the PI. Even if it starts out as something like a Facebook game for the first few months. Then they can add a similar option to Captains Quaters. All IMHO ;) I agree with you - this games success will come with how it defines itself differently then all other FPS - changing points on a planetary map isn't a new concept. Neither is conquest of said planet. But industry? God - it makes my mouth water.
I agree with both of you, Tony and Sota. Half the reason i came to this game is BECAUSE of the potential. I knew that when i joined it was just an FPS. I also knew, and i still feel it in my gut, that this game is going places. And by god, i want to be one of the guys who is remembered as being part of this. Even if it is a small etched rock on the furthest asteroid in New Eden, that is gonna be my blasted rock. We stuch through this because we believed, and the sheer thought of what the future holds excites everybody. So c'mon guys. Lets keep pulling and fighting for a better future. I believe in it, and i am going to do my part. I only ask that you guys do the same. |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
358
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 01:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Tony Calif wrote:+1 but... That's a lot of chatter about ISKs... but if I may be so bold... planetary interaction? From my perspective, the link needs to be stronger than just ISK. EvE with no industry would not function. Dust without industry will not function. It's all about the PI. Even if it starts out as something like a Facebook game for the first few months. Then they can add a similar option to Captains Quaters. All IMHO ;) You're right Tony, but you've got the wrong target. PI is a side game in EVE. It's useful and would be a good income stream for us Dust mercs(given our cost of doing business), but on Eve's industrial scale it's akin to a one-man pottery shop - virtually meaningless. The target we should all have in our sight is Technetium and the other moon minerals. This is the game, this is the oil, this is what is worth going to war over and slaughtering million of innocents if necessary. An alliance without TECH is nothing, the best they can aspire to is loyal lapdog status. What we mercs need is a game mechanic that allows us to fight for the Tech and take it - and then take it we will. The first time such a thing happens, all of New Eden will shudder. Their collective balls will shrivel and pull up inside their bodies. Because at that point they will know they have become engaged in a fight to the death. And if the game mechanics offer a reasonable playing field, we can win that fight. Thats not going to happen because CCP already want to take all out Tech moons from us. They plan to revamp that whole system with ring mining so tech won't be as valuable as it is now anyway. DUST needs an even bigger impact than the technetium market because its already being looked at. What you say is true, i'm hoping myself that DUST is somehow incorporated into ring mining. But the point is that the wealth in EVE is being generated primarily by the T2 extraction/refining/reacting/manufacturing chain. I don't care what it is, so long as we mercs have a chance at owning it.
What if we could conquer space stations and mining rings. We could simply leave the machinery intact, or shred it depending on what the goal was. If we leave it running, and the station is "alighned" to us, then we simply start rolling in the dough to our corp. If we destroy it, we make a statement. "You see that eVe boys?! We can blow up your crap, and we will! Screw with us, and you will regret it!" |
Rayan Storm
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
358
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 01:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
This. http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=§ion=&global=1&q=dust+514#/d4zjxs2 |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2865
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 04:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
I don't want to board a titan >< Too much trouble. |
howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 06:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Octavian Vetiver wrote:crazy space 2100046106 wrote:PI in eve needs to be scraped and replaced with something that dust works into like we were promised PI 2.0 on the Features and Ideas forum on the EVE Online site would cover it perfectly. There needs to be much more than JUST PI though. I think CCP have that in the works though, just looking at some of the models they have groundside get's my interest going as the functions of some of them are pretty obvious and could open up some very interesting stuff. Like what? No, really, I am curious about your ideas and aspirations regarding the Dust/Eve game and what it Could be like. |
howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 06:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
What if, instead of PI or Tech, the thing that gives DUST half the keys to the Kingdom is: Sovereignty?
What if system ownership and control relied to a meaningful extent with "boots on the ground"?
Instead of ( or in some way in conjunction with) SBUs and the other EVE sov mechanics, having Dust mercs take and hold planetary real-estate made Sov work or matter more...that could cement Dust into the New Eden end game. |
THE GREY CARDINAL
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 07:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: This was your primary concern when speaking to CCP? Why are people so impatient? No sh*t CCP acknowledged we are in closed beta. As they said last year at the EVE Fanfest, they are just focussing on getting the core game play going. Some dude even asked if we would one day be able to boards EVE ships and CCP basically said it would be easy to do in the future but...BUT! They wanted to focus on core game play. Is breaching an EVE ship as a DUST merc enough depth for the EVE-DUST link for you?
Man...I hope your future sessions come off as being more productive. HA. This has nothing to do with impatience. This has everything to do with the fact that you all have compared this game to a hundred other shooters, and what stands out as the shining beacon of separation between Dust 514 and other shooters (besides the customization and death of gear, which is cool) is the fact that you're playing in (and hopefully affecting) the EVE universe. Up until recently, that has been the big focus of nearly 100% of marketing dollars spent. If Dust 514 goes "live" in the mass media, not-beta, "real game now" sense, and there is no game between the two games, a paper thin link that allows Dust 514 mercs to affect capsuleers, but not the other way around, a lot of those marketing dollars backfire. Even a shift towards "PS3's first free-to-play MMOFPS" as the tagline won't be enough, they've already spent years marketing the cross-platform gameplay. So yeah, its a big deal to the CSM, and it should be to you as well. All the patience in the world as a beta participant doesn't change the fact that the CSM is notoriously good at spotting these sort of business-case issues far in advance, and when CCP hasn't listened in the past, its cost them dearly. Thankfully, the developers have been quite cool about accepting criticism in the spirit it was intended, not taking it personally, and putting forth extra effort to bring us up to speed with the advance plans they have in place to address some of this.
This doesn't validate nagging CCP about the link at this point of the game's development. It's like expecting a baby to be able to sprint before it has learned to crawl. It's an unrealistic expectation imho. People seem to be very grateful that CCP is taking their time so that it doesn't destroy 10 years of work, at least on the EVE side. Who else has done what CCP is doing? It's uncharted territory so being disappointed at the level of depth, when the game has JUST been brought to the EVE server, WHILE the game is still in closed beta seems like a waste of time, especially when they have already said that it would be easy for DUST mercs to visit EVE pilots and to even breach and attack their ship from the inside...These things will come in time so it is a matter of patience, and realistic expectation.
I don't want to come off as a hater, or an argumentative pr*ck, I'm not. I'm actually a very laid back, easy going and nice guy :D But to you seem to be a representative of the communities voice, which includes my voice, and my voice says that things are progressing really well and I'm proud of what CCP has accomplished so far.
We already know that we will be able to shoot pew pews at EVE pilots. We have heard that we will be able to interact with them face to face, and as I mentioned before, the ability to breach and assault an EVE ship has been confirmed "possible and easy to imagine". Then there is the whole economy thing and being hired by EVE pilots to take, develop and defend districts on planets. What more depth of a link do you want? Crossplatform sex scenes? :) |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
134
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 08:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
THE GREY CARDINAL wrote:Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: -snip- -snip- This doesn't validate nagging CCP about the link at this point of the game's development. It's like expecting a baby to be able to sprint before it has learned to crawl. It's an unrealistic expectation imho. Who else has done what CCP is doing? It's uncharted territory so being disappointed at the level of depth, when the game has JUST been brought to the EVE server, WHILE the game is still in closed beta seems like a waste of time, especially when they have already said that it would be easy for DUST mercs to visit EVE pilots and to even breach and attack their ship from the inside...These things will come in time so it is a matter of patience, and realistic expectation. The game has been in closed beta for more than a year now, so it is hardly nagging and rushing when the CSM asks CCP to actually deliver on the single most important feature in this game. This is an FPS, so unless there is something to keep them hooked, people will play the game for a couple of months and then leave.
In simple terms, if the EVE / Dust link is not present a LAUNCH, or if it is so insignificant that it doesn't give people a reason to care, this game will be dead once the next Call of Battlefield 26 comes out. It won't matter what CCP put in the expansions if nobody sticks around that long, and if Dust fails, CCP (and EVE) will probably be in a lot of trouble. Something that as both an EVE player and a Dust player, I don't want to happen.
So yeah, it is perfectly acceptable for us to want to know that CCP has some pretty solid (non SoonTM) plans for how EVE and Dust will work together, because TBH, it's all starting to seem like vapour-ware.
Also thanks to the CSM for pressing the issue, and for getting some answers - even if the specifics are NDAed |
THE GREY CARDINAL
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 08:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:THE GREY CARDINAL wrote:Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: -snip- -snip- This doesn't validate nagging CCP about the link at this point of the game's development. It's like expecting a baby to be able to sprint before it has learned to crawl. It's an unrealistic expectation imho. Who else has done what CCP is doing? It's uncharted territory so being disappointed at the level of depth, when the game has JUST been brought to the EVE server, WHILE the game is still in closed beta seems like a waste of time, especially when they have already said that it would be easy for DUST mercs to visit EVE pilots and to even breach and attack their ship from the inside...These things will come in time so it is a matter of patience, and realistic expectation. The game has been in closed beta for more than a year now, so it is hardly nagging and rushing when the CSM asks CCP to actually deliver on the single most important feature in this game. This is an FPS, so unless there is something to keep them hooked, people will play the game for a couple of months and then leave. In simple terms, if the EVE / Dust link is not present a LAUNCH, or if it is so insignificant that it doesn't give people a reason to care, this game will be dead once the next Call of Battlefield 26 comes out. It won't matter what CCP put in the expansions if nobody sticks around that long, and if Dust fails, CCP (and EVE) will probably be in a lot of trouble. Something that as both an EVE player and a Dust player, I don't want to happen. So yeah, it is perfectly acceptable for us to want to know that CCP has some pretty solid (non SoonTM) plans for how EVE and Dust will work together, because TBH, it's all starting to seem like vapour-ware. Also thanks to the CSM for pressing the issue, and for getting some answers - even if the specifics are NDAed
Of course it's perfectly acceptable to want to know there's some solid plans. I just don't think this should have been a "primary concern" when choosing how to spend their time with CCP. |
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Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 09:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Good to know the CSM keeps the pressure up regarding Dust-EVE's link. As for the moment, i dont see much of it... Contracting system needs to be enhanced A LOT.
I get they dont want capsuleers to bankroll mercs day-one with billions of ISK. But let's face it..... Eventually some dust corps will become tremendously RICH and will roll expensive stuff everywhere, pub match, FW and 0.0.
Just like in EVE.
Regarding industry, i can understand the desire for mercs to dive into that kind of gameplay. But Dust is an FPS ! Even if PI were available to dusters, how do you think it would work ? Like in EVE ? with every individual setting its own command center and stuff ? That's just not possible imo.
Imo, industry should be an incentive to join a corp. Corps owning planets should be able to make money out of it. And thus give back some to its members. But, dealing with all the planet management should only be the matter of a few designated members inside the corp.
Then there's also industry as in crafting. Are dust players eventually gonna be able to own blueprints for higher tier equipment ? And by blueprint, i mean EVE-type blueprints. Those that needs materials, skills, and places to be used in order to get actual equipments. Not those AUR blueprints that just poops weapons and stuff out of magic.
Or even before that ? Will EVE dudes get to use blueprints and flood the market with EVE made equipment ? Wouldnt that create a massive deflation bubble ? Especially with the demand for proto gear that will inevitably grow bigger and bigger after a few month\years etc....
Those are all good questions. But there aint no good answer possible atm as the amount of variables is just too high.I see people talking about mining, PI and i wonder how much they know about it when they suggest it should be added to dust. As, for the few month i played EVE, those are mechanics that just cannot fit in. Like boarding player-owned Ships.
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Volgair
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
200
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 11:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Good to know the CSM keeps the pressure up regarding Dust-EVE's link. As for the moment, i dont see much of it... Contracting system needs to be enhanced A LOT.
I get they dont want capsuleers to bankroll mercs day-one with billions of ISK. But let's face it..... Eventually some dust corps will become tremendously RICH and will roll expensive stuff everywhere, pub match, FW and 0.0.
Just like in EVE.
Regarding industry, i can understand the desire for mercs to dive into that kind of gameplay. But Dust is an FPS ! Even if PI were available to dusters, how do you think it would work ? Like in EVE ? with every individual setting its own command center and stuff ? That's just not possible imo.
Imo, industry should be an incentive to join a corp. Corps owning planets should be able to make money out of it. And thus give back some to its members. But, dealing with all the planet management should only be the matter of a few designated members inside the corp.
Then there's also industry as in crafting. Are dust players eventually gonna be able to own blueprints for higher tier equipment ? And by blueprint, i mean EVE-type blueprints. Those that needs materials, skills, and places to be used in order to get actual equipments. Not those AUR blueprints that just poops weapons and stuff out of magic.
Or even before that ? Will EVE dudes get to use blueprints and flood the market with EVE made equipment ? Wouldnt that create a massive deflation bubble ? Especially with the demand for proto gear that will inevitably grow bigger and bigger after a few month\years etc....
Those are all good questions. But there aint no good answer possible atm as the amount of variables is just too high.I see people talking about mining, PI and i wonder how much they know about it when they suggest it should be added to dust. As, for the few month i played EVE, those are mechanics that just cannot fit in. Like boarding player-owned Ships.
Some engaging instanced team based PVE for limited run blue prints of higher meta level equipment would be nice. Dust Corporation owned planetary mines, farms, factories, cities, shipyards and the like would be tremendous incentive for time investment and defending what you have.
But to say that boarding mechanics for EVE ships are an impossibility, hardly. You figure a battle ship lasts about 2 minutes under consistent fire, battle cruisers about 1.5, cruisers about 45 seconds and every thing smaller is lucky to survive more then 10 seconds. Whats the difference between turning it to scrap and putting a bullet in the brain pan of a goo soaked capsuleer. That difference is profit. the only thing better then grabbing scrap and loot out of space is towing your haul home to count the isk you managed to take by force.
that one feature not only changes the tactics of hit and run pirates, but fleets as a whole. you could impregnate one of a pair of cross repping carriers and interrupt the triage module for one of an infinite number of examples. the key for balance is in that method for impregnation. but to say it is impossible is a bit closed minded and short sighted. |
Ghural
The Southern Legion
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 12:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
You know, there was a lot of information given out at last years Fanfest about what to expect in Dust this year. MTACS (mechs), horde mode against drones, eSports (and the ability to view them in both the EVE and Dust clients).
I |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 13:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I don't want to board a titan >< Too much trouble. Yeah - agreed 100%. That's too much walking. Sheesh.
If it does happen i sure hope those things got golf carts. |
Jason Punk
DUST University Ivy League
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 14:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
Brief thoughts on PVE content. I'd be happy to expand on them and induce more discussion:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=49714&find=unread
- I believe that a PVE iteration before a full Null-Sec roll out would be very helpful in building trust, needs, and comradery for players especially within incursions. However, I would only want this to take precedence if and only if CCP and Capsuleers combined feel that they need more time to roll out Null-Sec (for features and thoughts explained in thread).
Glad to hear from the great meta-game and happy 10th |
Jason Punk
DUST University Ivy League
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 14:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Good to know the CSM keeps the pressure up regarding Dust-EVE's link. As for the moment, i dont see much of it... Contracting system needs to be enhanced A LOT.
I get they dont want capsuleers to bankroll mercs day-one with billions of ISK. But let's face it..... Eventually some dust corps will become tremendously RICH and will roll expensive stuff everywhere, pub match, FW and 0.0.
Just like in EVE.
Regarding industry, i can understand the desire for mercs to dive into that kind of gameplay. But Dust is an FPS ! Even if PI were available to dusters, how do you think it would work ? Like in EVE ? with every individual setting its own command center and stuff ? That's just not possible imo.
Imo, industry should be an incentive to join a corp. Corps owning planets should be able to make money out of it. And thus give back some to its members. But, dealing with all the planet management should only be the matter of a few designated members inside the corp.
Then there's also industry as in crafting. Are dust players eventually gonna be able to own blueprints for higher tier equipment ? And by blueprint, i mean EVE-type blueprints. Those that needs materials, skills, and places to be used in order to get actual equipments. Not those AUR blueprints that just poops weapons and stuff out of magic.
Or even before that ? Will EVE dudes get to use blueprints and flood the market with EVE made equipment ? Wouldnt that create a massive deflation bubble ? Especially with the demand for proto gear that will inevitably grow bigger and bigger after a few month\years etc....
Those are all good questions. But there aint no good answer possible atm as the amount of variables is just too high.I see people talking about mining, PI and i wonder how much they know about it when they suggest it should be added to dust. As, for the few month i played EVE, those are mechanics that just cannot fit in. Like boarding player-owned Ships.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=49714&find=unread
It's a discussion of PVE content primarily, but secondly expands briefly on some thoughts of industrial capabilities of both Dust and Eve players. Would welcome more discussion ^^ |
Jason Punk
DUST University Ivy League
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 14:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Volgair wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Good to know the CSM keeps the pressure up regarding Dust-EVE's link. As for the moment, i dont see much of it... Contracting system needs to be enhanced A LOT.
I get they dont want capsuleers to bankroll mercs day-one with billions of ISK. But let's face it..... Eventually some dust corps will become tremendously RICH and will roll expensive stuff everywhere, pub match, FW and 0.0.
Just like in EVE.
Regarding industry, i can understand the desire for mercs to dive into that kind of gameplay. But Dust is an FPS ! Even if PI were available to dusters, how do you think it would work ? Like in EVE ? with every individual setting its own command center and stuff ? That's just not possible imo.
Imo, industry should be an incentive to join a corp. Corps owning planets should be able to make money out of it. And thus give back some to its members. But, dealing with all the planet management should only be the matter of a few designated members inside the corp.
Then there's also industry as in crafting. Are dust players eventually gonna be able to own blueprints for higher tier equipment ? And by blueprint, i mean EVE-type blueprints. Those that needs materials, skills, and places to be used in order to get actual equipments. Not those AUR blueprints that just poops weapons and stuff out of magic.
Or even before that ? Will EVE dudes get to use blueprints and flood the market with EVE made equipment ? Wouldnt that create a massive deflation bubble ? Especially with the demand for proto gear that will inevitably grow bigger and bigger after a few month\years etc....
Those are all good questions. But there aint no good answer possible atm as the amount of variables is just too high.I see people talking about mining, PI and i wonder how much they know about it when they suggest it should be added to dust. As, for the few month i played EVE, those are mechanics that just cannot fit in. Like boarding player-owned Ships.
Some engaging instanced team based PVE for limited run blue prints of higher meta level equipment would be nice. Dust Corporation owned planetary mines, farms, factories, cities, shipyards and the like would be tremendous incentive for time investment and defending what you have. But to say that boarding mechanics for EVE ships are an impossibility, hardly. You figure a battle ship lasts about 2 minutes under consistent fire, battle cruisers about 1.5, cruisers about 45 seconds and every thing smaller is lucky to survive more then 10 seconds. Whats the difference between turning it to scrap and putting a bullet in the brain pan of a goo soaked capsuleer. That difference is profit. the only thing better then grabbing scrap and loot out of space is towing your haul home to count the isk you managed to take by force. that one feature not only changes the tactics of hit and run pirates, but fleets as a whole. you could impregnate one of a pair of cross repping carriers and interrupt the triage module for one of an infinite number of examples. the key for balance is in that method for impregnation. but to say it is impossible is a bit closed minded and short sighted.
I would want Boarding ships to be something reserved for Cap Ships and be one of the most challenging things to do in the game. It would require a lot of attention to detail and tactical maneuvering on both Eve and Dust sides.
I'm thinking for example, that you have to essentially "broadside" a cap ship with a warbarge (a purely defensive ship/ Boarding feature and light drone defenses) by allowing an Eve pilot and a Dust Clone Reserve Cargo and you essentially fire clone pods into a grappled Cap ship. This would be the same as ammo except generally these pods added 2-4 Dust clones into the fight at a time and took a relatively long time to reload...allowing for the need to constantly keep the situation stable on the Eve side. The catch to making this effective is that it would need to be rather co-ordinated and Dust mercs, while they could be fighting somewhere else at the time, would need to be on relative standby so that when the expected engagement occurred they could attempt to seize the ship.
The process of seizing the ship would be both a race against time (with the Eve Pilot able to measure their progress in chunks or by subsystems). As such, it is likely that they will also face a self-destruction timer issue and will have to become proficient in locating AND disarming this (or at least delaying; both requiring skills and specialized equipment). Last of all you would need to fight through competent AI, Other Dust Marines, or preferably both. And of course once you capture it, it becomes a sitting duck until you can find the proper Cap Pilot Eve-Side to effectively steal it away. All this combined and dependent on Eve facilitation and Clone reserves would be essentially for conducting boarding/capture operations...and the reward for doing so would be outstandingly delicious
Just some thoughts ^^
|
Zahle Undt
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 18:33:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jason Punk wrote:Volgair wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Good to know the CSM keeps the pressure up regarding Dust-EVE's link. As for the moment, i dont see much of it... Contracting system needs to be enhanced A LOT.
I get they dont want capsuleers to bankroll mercs day-one with billions of ISK. But let's face it..... Eventually some dust corps will become tremendously RICH and will roll expensive stuff everywhere, pub match, FW and 0.0.
Just like in EVE.
Regarding industry, i can understand the desire for mercs to dive into that kind of gameplay. But Dust is an FPS ! Even if PI were available to dusters, how do you think it would work ? Like in EVE ? with every individual setting its own command center and stuff ? That's just not possible imo.
Imo, industry should be an incentive to join a corp. Corps owning planets should be able to make money out of it. And thus give back some to its members. But, dealing with all the planet management should only be the matter of a few designated members inside the corp.
Then there's also industry as in crafting. Are dust players eventually gonna be able to own blueprints for higher tier equipment ? And by blueprint, i mean EVE-type blueprints. Those that needs materials, skills, and places to be used in order to get actual equipments. Not those AUR blueprints that just poops weapons and stuff out of magic.
Or even before that ? Will EVE dudes get to use blueprints and flood the market with EVE made equipment ? Wouldnt that create a massive deflation bubble ? Especially with the demand for proto gear that will inevitably grow bigger and bigger after a few month\years etc....
Those are all good questions. But there aint no good answer possible atm as the amount of variables is just too high.I see people talking about mining, PI and i wonder how much they know about it when they suggest it should be added to dust. As, for the few month i played EVE, those are mechanics that just cannot fit in. Like boarding player-owned Ships.
Some engaging instanced team based PVE for limited run blue prints of higher meta level equipment would be nice. Dust Corporation owned planetary mines, farms, factories, cities, shipyards and the like would be tremendous incentive for time investment and defending what you have. But to say that boarding mechanics for EVE ships are an impossibility, hardly. You figure a battle ship lasts about 2 minutes under consistent fire, battle cruisers about 1.5, cruisers about 45 seconds and every thing smaller is lucky to survive more then 10 seconds. Whats the difference between turning it to scrap and putting a bullet in the brain pan of a goo soaked capsuleer. That difference is profit. the only thing better then grabbing scrap and loot out of space is towing your haul home to count the isk you managed to take by force. that one feature not only changes the tactics of hit and run pirates, but fleets as a whole. you could impregnate one of a pair of cross repping carriers and interrupt the triage module for one of an infinite number of examples. the key for balance is in that method for impregnation. but to say it is impossible is a bit closed minded and short sighted. I would want Boarding ships to be something reserved for Cap Ships and be one of the most challenging things to do in the game. It would require a lot of attention to detail and tactical maneuvering on both Eve and Dust sides. I'm thinking for example, that you have to essentially "broadside" a cap ship with a warbarge (a purely defensive ship/ Boarding feature and light drone defenses) by allowing an Eve pilot and a Dust Clone Reserve Cargo and you essentially fire clone pods into a grappled Cap ship. This would be the same as ammo except generally these pods added 2-4 Dust clones into the fight at a time and took a relatively long time to reload...allowing for the need to constantly keep the situation stable on the Eve side. The catch to making this effective is that it would need to be rather co-ordinated and Dust mercs, while they could be fighting somewhere else at the time, would need to be on relative standby so that when the expected engagement occurred they could attempt to seize the ship. The process of seizing the ship would be both a race against time (with the Eve Pilot able to measure their progress in chunks or by subsystems). As such, it is likely that they will also face a self-destruction timer issue and will have to become proficient in locating AND disarming this (or at least delaying; both requiring skills and specialized equipment). Last of all you would need to fight through competent AI, Other Dust Marines, or preferably both. And of course once you capture it, it becomes a sitting duck until you can find the proper Cap Pilot Eve-Side to effectively steal it away. All this combined and dependent on Eve facilitation and Clone reserves would be essentially for conducting boarding/capture operations...and the reward for doing so would be outstandingly delicious Just some thoughts ^^
You put a lot of thoughts into that and that is awesome, personally I would just be really amped to have some running gunfights through the hallways of a starship ala the very beginning of Star Wars. Here's hoping CCP makes my nerd dreams come true someday |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 19:59:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Tony Calif wrote:+1 but... That's a lot of chatter about ISKs... but if I may be so bold... planetary interaction? From my perspective, the link needs to be stronger than just ISK. EvE with no industry would not function. Dust without industry will not function. It's all about the PI. Even if it starts out as something like a Facebook game for the first few months. Then they can add a similar option to Captains Quaters. All IMHO ;) You're right Tony, but you've got the wrong target. PI is a side game in EVE. It's useful and would be a good income stream for us Dust mercs(given our cost of doing business), but on Eve's industrial scale it's akin to a one-man pottery shop - virtually meaningless. The target we should all have in our sight is Technetium and the other moon minerals. This is the game, this is the oil, this is what is worth going to war over and slaughtering million of innocents if necessary. An alliance without TECH is nothing, the best they can aspire to is loyal lapdog status. What we mercs need is a game mechanic that allows us to fight for the Tech and take it - and then take it we will. The first time such a thing happens, all of New Eden will shudder. Their collective balls will shrivel and pull up inside their bodies. Because at that point they will know they have become engaged in a fight to the death. And if the game mechanics offer a reasonable playing field, we can win that fight. Thats not going to happen because CCP already want to take all out Tech moons from us. They plan to revamp that whole system with ring mining so tech won't be as valuable as it is now anyway. DUST needs an even bigger impact than the technetium market because its already being looked at. What you say is true, i'm hoping myself that DUST is somehow incorporated into ring mining. But the point is that the wealth in EVE is being generated primarily by the T2 extraction/refining/reacting/manufacturing chain. I don't care what it is, so long as we mercs have a chance at owning it.
How the hell would they incorporate Dust into ring mining?...
And the whole point of Dust is to be a huge ISK sink so in theory we'll always be rich in Dust terms if everything works right, they want to siphon money out of the EVE economy and into Dust so that's its destroyed, right now there's a tiny volume of ISK destroyed each day in comparison to what's brought into the economy each day with ratting bountys etc so people get richer every single day in EVE and that's having a massive impact on Inflation, they want EVE to have a recession to bring some balance back into things.
|
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 20:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Octavian Vetiver wrote:crazy space 2100046106 wrote:PI in eve needs to be scraped and replaced with something that dust works into like we were promised PI 2.0 on the Features and Ideas forum on the EVE Online site would cover it perfectly. There needs to be much more than JUST PI though. I think CCP have that in the works though, just looking at some of the models they have groundside get's my interest going as the functions of some of them are pretty obvious and could open up some very interesting stuff. Like what? No, really, I am curious about your ideas and aspirations regarding the Dust/Eve game and what it Could be like.
It's a difficult question to answer because i know a couple of things and i can't give details, but i'd like to see them impact things like SOV timers in EVE, that could make us all rich alone without anything else.
The ability to destroy or stop Cyno beacons working in large staging systems or even stopping Cyno jammers too. Even those tiny things could make things amazingly impressive. |
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