Well my personal favorite is the new nade mechanics. It used to be perfet, yes it was you scrub, now its spamorama.

Almost everyone I am about to kill at close range toss off a nade at my feet blowing up 2 sec later, this needs to stop.

Bring back the 4 second delay and let the worlds best Dust nade thrower, ME, own the scrubs with my superior timeing and skill.

Bring back the direct hit nades, but limit the damage to 400 like the Fused Locus nades, at lvl 5 grenadier, the 600 damage the Tukkers did was just too much.

Thanks.

I think the reason the M1 seems OP is that its cheap/effective and the dmg drop off is not high enough. At the very edge of the explosive radius is still seems to be able to take out the shield of most suits (or severely dmg them). If the dmg drop off was greater such that only within like a 2 meter radius it does its full 600 dmg and then it drops off fast.

Well the intention was to make a list, not only discuss nade mechanics. I was waiting for the speed nerf, the closer damage gap and so on.

And Regnum, this build perhpas but I seriously doubt its true for the previous builds, in which case I salute you, you have to be very good indeed

But how anyone can defend the new idiotic nade arch is beyond my comprehension.... I aim up and theyre thrown down, what a lot of BS.

Not gonna be rude or anything, but nobody is better at nades then HALO players its kinda our thing

Just to clear things up...

militia nades, 400 dmg, 6m radius
M1 (lvl3), 500 dmg, 6.6 m radius
Core (lvl5) 600 dmg, 7.2 m radius

Its a meaningless discussion in any case, I played a lot of Warhawk back in the days.

And I just realized you had STBSlayer in you name, I like you now!!!!!!!!!!! Love and kisses.....

Grenades are OP now, every gun fight ends with the loser dropping a nade at his feet so he can try to get a kill on the other guy. Stupid.

This is why I don't bum rush dead bodies.

Valid tactic

Or you lack skill. If we're gonna put the game back on easy mode, give the large rail guns their splash back.

Im not sure about earilier builds but in the current one leveling up grenadier doesnt do anything in terms of radius or dmg of the grenade all they do is unlock the higher tier nades.

Was it different before?

Sorry for the double posting but I just have to ask,

Have anyone gotten a quadruple (is that even a word?) nade kill? I mean, Ive gotten plenty of tripple ones but I just got my first four for the price of one, just moments ago. Could it be a first?

Skill takes a backseat to denying victory to an enemy. suicide ganking makes this possible and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling

I play to win, not to prove my skillz.

My point exactly, you did lose if you go down first, its just super easy to get a kill you dont deserve now.

Im not sure about earilier builds but in the current one leveling up grenadier doesnt do anything in terms of radius or dmg of the grenade all they do is unlock the higher tier nades.

Was it different before?

My point exactly, you did lose if you go down first, its just super easy to get a kill you dont deserve now.

The 2second timer is ridiculous. Every single noob you see now doesn't even bother shooting their gun, they just throw nades at their feet as they run away. I don't know when the last time I killed someone and they weren't dropping a grenade was. It's annoying and takes away from gameplay.

This thread is now moved to Feedback/Requests section as it is more suitable for it :)

Keep it constructive, guys.

How about you being a little constructive and tell us what the reasons for implementing this obviously very spam and noob friendly new mechanics was? And Id like to hear if this issue is under discussion in the DEV team at all.

You might also tell me why a 400 HP damage nade takes out my 544 hp protosuit in one blow?

And CCP, do you really want this level of random nade spam that we see in the games now in Dust?

First time I ever got any DEVs in my thread and instead of commenting the issue at hand, you tell us to be constructive, how about you practice what you preach?

And I mean it, this is currently my nr 1. issue with Dust, it really takes out much of the joy for me and obviously many others too.

Because the game is designed to be brutal to everyone, not just new players. CCP builds the sandbox, gives us the toys, then makes bets on which of us get buried in it.

THERE IS NO NICHE PROTECTION FOR THE ELITE.

If the rest of us can figure out ways to kill you that are dirty, underhanded, cheap, noobish, etc. I submit that you need to learn something.

Learn to dodge all the grenades were throwing.

Learn to not chase guys like me around corners.

Learn i do everything in my power to deny an idiot a chance to do the teabag thing.

Oh ya, if i blow up your proto fit with a locus grenade? then its working as intended.

No sympathy for the crowd that tells newer and less skilled players to L2play.

We learned to play on our terms, not yours. your turn to adapt now. lets see if you can. dont nerf anything else. the weaponry and armor should not be watered down homogenous one-tactic wonders.

And no you cant have supar AR back.

Well my personal favorite is the new nade mechanics. It used to be perfet, yes it was you scrub, now its spamorama.

Almost everyone I am about to kill at close range toss off a nade at my feet blowing up 2 sec later, this needs to stop.

Bring back the 4 second delay and let the worlds best Dust nade thrower, ME, own the scrubs with my superior timeing and skill.

Bring back the direct hit nades, but limit the damage to 400 like the Fused Locus nades, at lvl 5 grenadier, the 600 damage the Tukkers did was just too much.

Thanks.

How about you being a little constructive and tell us what the reasons for implementing this obviously very spam and noob friendly new mechanics was? And Id like to hear if this issue is under discussion in the DEV team at all.

You might also tell me why a 400 HP damage nade takes out my 544 hp protosuit in one blow?

And CCP, do you really want this level of random nade spam that we see in the games now in Dust?

First time I ever got any DEVs in my thread and instead of commenting the issue at hand, you tell us to be constructive, how about you practice what you preach?

And I mean it, this is currently my nr 1. issue with Dust, it really takes out much of the joy for me and obviously many others too.

Im not sure about earilier builds but in the current one leveling up grenadier doesnt do anything in terms of radius or dmg of the grenade all they do is unlock the higher tier nades.

Was it different before?

The 2second timer is ridiculous. Every single noob you see now doesn't even bother shooting their gun, they just throw nades at their feet as they run away. I don't know when the last time I killed someone and they weren't dropping a grenade was. It's annoying and takes away from gameplay.

Only read to the grenade part. Thus I will explain them. Shields are strong against explosives. So the 400 damage will be "nerfed" a bit on shields. However once it reaches armor it's strength increases more so than it decreased on the shields. Thus increasing it to 544. EVE logic. If this still bothers you. There's a thing called tanking. I'd do it with your shields :P

Edit: Besides. This is what grenades are for. This is why our military makes them. To blow things up with a single toss. "I DON'T LIKE THE GRENADES BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO MUCH LIKE GRENAAAAADES WAAAAAAAAAAAH" is all I see when I read the first post.

And I honestly don't see any sense in being able to take three nades like we did in the last build. THAT is the nonsense. Any good FPS has someway you can get a nade to kill in one hit without doing anything to enemy first.

First of thanks for the input, I hadn't though about how explosions affect shields and armor differently. An actual factual contributon to the discussion, nice job ! + 1

And to the second part, there is nades that you can actually throw instantly (no settings and so on) that will blow up in 2 seconds? Really? 2 Seconds in real life? (Real life arguments is however a fail since game mechanics and fun is far more important than realism, at least in a futuristic game.)

In any case, I don't really have a big grind against the damage output, its the 2 sec fuse that annoys the hell out of me. Why not have a 4 sec fuse for the normal ones and then bring back the direct hit ones for the cqc spamming? Making people actually having to skill into them.

I still haven't yet seen anybody say, lets keep this mechanic, having people spam 2 sec fused nades all over the place all day long is good for the game because ________________.

i like the grenades at the moment, between the terrible throw mechanics and the 2 sec fuse as has been said it equals about 4 secs. Grenades are like rattlers on a snake telling you to not come close to me or make camping harder. I think there is a bigger problem with the noobtubing mass drivers then grenades at the moment but i guess every game has to have a noobtube.

What? 3 nades? Not very well placed then, I killed a lot of people with only one, though be it a good hit.

[quote=Crm234]i like the grenades at the moment, between the terrible throw mechanics and the 2 sec fuse as has been said it equals about 4 secs. Grenades are like rattlers on a snake telling you to not come close to me or make camping harder. I think there is a bigger problem with the noobtubing mass drivers then grenades at the moment but i guess every game has to have a noobtube.

I hate the "i'm going down and taking you with me" nade spam as much as the next guy

but.....saying that the grenade mechanics were "great" or "perfect" in prior builds is....well, poor judgement IMO.

Prior builds only half the nades you threw actually detonated, often could go across the map or two feet in front of you regardless of how you tossed them, and sometimes never even came out of your hand. I fail to see how those mechanics are better than they are currently.

Chances are they were so inconsistent before you just didn't notice them as much.

I consider myself fairly decent with nades and while I will complain when I see the death rattle nade come out, the mechanics are much better than they were before.

A good compromise would be to have the skill associated have more of an impact on your ability to use militia variants, throw the grenade accurately, more quickly, and / or with a reduced timer.

Skill takes a backseat to denying victory to an enemy. suicide ganking makes this possible and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling

I play to win, not to prove my skillz.

Well my personal favorite is the new nade mechanics. It used to be perfet, yes it was you scrub, now its spamorama.

Almost everyone I am about to kill at close range toss off a nade at my feet blowing up 2 sec later, this needs to stop.

Bring back the 4 second delay and let the worlds best Dust nade thrower, ME, own the scrubs with my superior timeing and skill.

Bring back the direct hit nades, but limit the damage to 400 like the Fused Locus nades, at lvl 5 grenadier, the 600 damage the Tukkers did was just too much.

Thanks.

Get a better fit and I'm sure that it will be made clear that the noob's obvious militia nade only wanted to give you a little tickle :D. WE are supposed to PREPARE for things like this. We are supposed to be ready for anything. We're mercs in game. So why don't we just start PLAYING like mercs? If you DON'T want ALL types of nades ruining your day then for the love of fake tryhards. TRY HARD and SHIELD TANK.

OF COURSE A HIGHER TIER OF NADE IS GONNA DESTROY YOU. If a "noob" runs out of ammo in his mag because it's just not his day (We all have moments where everything is garbage, more so for others) he can strategically plant one at his feet and take cover. What if he already killed three other people and before he could reload you came along and pushed him to the "noobery" you call this? In my experience. I usually ALWAYS have to do this as I'm mowing down enemies to the point where I'm constantly reloading on the frontline. And it's not thanks to the grenade I'm getting the majority of the kills. Otherwise I'd be restocking every three seconds. Not RELOADING every ten.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, and don't even warrant a proper response.

"I'm mowing down enemies" nice 1.4 kdr kid


The fuse change to the grenades was not needed, and did nothing but make them stupidly easy to use now. I'm sorry you like changes that dumb the game down, but you'll still be bad in the end.

One more thing, Satori.

I'm sorry, Adolf. But not everyone is going to be as skilled as certain people. Just because my kdr is that low right now (Oh deer... I said RIGHT and NOW and placed the words right next to eachother) doesn't mean I can't constantly mow down players in every other match. This right here is probably why your plan for conquest failed in the end, Adolf. You let the text of a simple ratio deceive you.

kdr will still be rising. Deal with it.

I'd explain what I'm really trying to get at here but someone of your stature should be able to figure it out themselves. In all honesty if I came from a corp with a name so sparkly I'd learn to keep my mouth shut when someone I knew nothing about, except kdr, was in my presence.

One more thing, Satori.

I'm sorry, Adolf. But not everyone is going to be as skilled as certain people. Just because my kdr is that low right now (Oh deer... I said RIGHT and NOW and placed the words right next to eachother) doesn't mean I can't constantly mow down players in every other match. This right here is probably why your plan for conquest failed in the end, Adolf. You let the text of a simple ratio deceive you.

kdr will still be rising. Deal with it.

I'd explain what I'm really trying to get at here but someone of your stature should be able to figure it out themselves. In all honesty if I came from a corp with a name so sparkly I'd learn to keep my mouth shut when someone I knew nothing about, except kdr, was in my presence.

Lol. I enjoy the burning sides I get when you say "nice kdr" and "kid' 1) Are you really desperate enough to counter someone by being a major creep and adding them as a contact? 2) When did I say "I'm ten years old"? 3) Excuse me for only JUST starting to do well at the end of last build by moving from a .60 to a 1.4 in little over a week with 3 hours of gameplay every OTHER day. I haven't been on in about eight days either.

So do us all a favor and keep your boast hole closed. You have no idea why my kdr is as it is. The answer isn't always that the person sucks. And a matter of fact. If you really want to look intelligent about this whole thing, you should've waited until you got in a match with me and THEN started blabbing away.

I'm not a fan of the dumbed down changes. I'm only saying that the complaining is as ridiculous as the several false assumptions you just threw at me. At least the OP can be intelligent about things with replies unlike you who thinks the way to victory is being an ass hat that believes themselves to know everything about a person by KDR. So please stop wasting your minutes of life posting extremely unconstructive posts on the forums. (EDIT: I.e. Fuse change not needed = opinion, however, I really agree with you there. cooking is better)

Sorry for the double posting but I just have to ask,

Have anyone gotten a quadruple (is that even a word?) nade kill? I mean, Ive gotten plenty of tripple ones but I just got my first four for the price of one, just moments ago. Could it be a first?

"Oh I think the 4 sec fused nade was totally useless since I couldn't be bothered to learn the timeing of them. I need a cruch since without this Easy-mode 2 sec nade I have no way ever of ever killing anybody decent at this game."

Now I stooped down to your level of argument, see how silly it looks?

After telling that its not about protecting my protofits at all, you still keep throwing stuff in my face describing me as an elitist ass-hat. You really need to start comprehending what others are trying to get across to you if you ever want to be taken seriously.

The old 4 sec fuse was very far from useless. I could just lob them over a hill, I could hold them for 1 second for long throws, 2 for intermediate, or I could do hold them for 3 secondds and let them blow up in someones face. If you couldn't use the old nades effectively, then thats entirely your fault, don't blame the game for your own shortcomings.

I am tired of every single engagement in cqc leading to who can spam the most nades. Its boring and I think it will be bad for the game in the long run. Thats all there is to it.

Just because some people can't be bothered to watch the enemy's movements or some people have trouble adapting to a new enemy tactic doesn't mean it should be reverted to the previous method.

Tell me, what exactly makes this new method better?

Adapting is not the issue. I don't say it is annoying because I die to it, that is my fault, I say it is annoying because it's a get out of jail free card. Get caught out of positioning? Better throw a grenade at my foot.

It boils down to this:

Learn to adapt.

You see someone pulling a grenade. That gives you from the time you see them start to throw until it hits the ground PLUS the two second timer to move. Don't want to blow up? Watch what your enemy is doing. If they can throw it at their feet, immediately move out of the way.

Since the start of this whole grenade spam I've learned how to move quickly as soon as the grenades start flying. Once every few matches someone will throw one at just the right moment in just the right way to keep me from being able to get away from it, and props to them. They got me fair and square since I have the same capacity to do the same to them.

Just because some people can't be bothered to watch the enemy's movements or some people have trouble adapting to a new enemy tactic doesn't mean it should be reverted to the previous method.

Note to grenade cookers: Cooking is still doable, you just have to learn the new timing. Try it out.

Note to Breakin Stuff: I love your posts, they are always entertaining even if they do not always accurately address all of the issue's properly.

Sorry for the double post

Well, it leads to needing more situation awareness and a better focus on what your opponent is doing. It leads to players running weaker suits to having a better chance of taking out better suits than their own. It leads to your grenades having a better chance of taking out the targets you intend them to take out. It leads to letting people use grenades from tall places since it's guaranteed to not detonate until it hits something.

Etc.

Also, something doesn't need to be good for Dust to not be bad for it. Tell me, how is it BAD for it? Because all of your excuses for why it should change have already been shown to be weak. Give me 1 good solid reason the new method is BAD for dust and needs to be changed.

EDIT: Also, getting more nade kills than AR kills doesn't make grenades bad, it means you work better with them than the AR

And of course "since the grenade spam". I never said there wasn't one. There is currently also a Mass Driver and Laser Spam.

Note to grenade cookers: Cooking is still doable, you just have to learn the new timing. Try it out.

Note to Breakin Stuff: I love your posts, they are always entertaining even if they do not always accurately address all of the issue's properly.

Sorry for the double post

I liked the older grenades much better.

Short fuses got Remote Explosive's nerfed, and now nades are able to have 3 and are almost as quick as RE's were.

Isn't this the same type of argument as back then? like come on, if you're for these nades this build. you should rally to give me my beloved RE's back and you can die to a scout running right at you to blow you sky high.

Only skill was making you fail to aim and kill me but framerate back them helped scouts out.

More situational awareness? I dont buy it. Spam is spam. And the rest of your first paragraph is basically, its easier for all the people who dont bother to learn how to cook, aim and time the nades. Youre basically saying that we should cater to the least skilled players, I get it. So much for a hard core game.

Well my personal favorite is the new nade mechanics. It used to be perfet, yes it was you scrub, now its spamorama.

Almost everyone I am about to kill at close range toss off a nade at my feet blowing up 2 sec later, this needs to stop.

Bring back the 4 second delay and let the worlds best Dust nade thrower, ME, own the scrubs with my superior timeing and skill.

Bring back the direct hit nades, but limit the damage to 400 like the Fused Locus nades, at lvl 5 grenadier, the 600 damage the Tukkers did was just too much.

Thanks.

Tell me, what exactly makes this new method better?

Adapting is not the issue. I don't say it is annoying because I die to it, that is my fault, I say it is annoying because it's a get out of jail free card. Get caught out of positioning? Better throw a grenade at my foot.

this is as good as the people in general discussion on the EVE forums: "You don't play game the way i want you to! You're doing it Wrong! CCP needs to nerf you so you can't do it wrong anymore!"

sic
EDIT: Also, getting more nade kills than AR kills doesn't make grenades bad, it means you work better with them than the AR

And of course "since the grenade spam". I never said there wasn't one. There is currently also a Mass Driver and Laser Spam.

There is a reason fuses are so long in real life..

CCP perspective- A game is a game, made for fun. The more people who find it fun, the more people there will be to spend cash on it.

Hardcore gamer perspective- people who are new to the game can get kills with them and I find it too easy, so they must be too easy to use.

My perspective- A grenade is a weapon. A very limited range weapon with only 2-3 chances per life to kill someone unless you stand next to a supply depot. As long as it's radius isn't insane and the throw distance isn't stupidly far, it'll do.

And as I said, cooking is still a skill that is rewarding, it just has different timing now. Also, aiming grenades is STILL AND ALWAYS WILL BE important. Dropping a nade at your feet is't the only use for grenades now, as a matter of fact it is the least used grenade tactic by far still.

As for grenade spamming, there was still PLENTY of that going on last build depending on who you were fighting. I used to see 3 people drop gauged hives all beside one corner and just rapid fire grenades down long passageways in ambush. Grenade spam is nothing new, there is just now a new use for it.

And , you are saying that CCP is catering to the least skilled players. No, entirely wrong. These grenades are easy to use for ANYONE, which means the best players benefit from it just as the lesser players do. Just because the lesser players receive a bigger benefit from it does not make it "catering to the least skilled players". When they buffed the Exile AR, all AR players benefited from it not just the new players. That's another debate altogether of course considering the dropped gap between weapons damage etc., but the point stands that all Exile users benefited from the Exile AR damage buff, not just the weakest players who got the most out of the buff.

And to your argument. The 2 second fuse may lead people to play a certain way. But that does not mean they HAVE to play that way. If they use their grenades skillfully, good on them. If they spam them, it's not admirable but it is a valid tactic. You could put it back how it was, or you could not, the problem you seem to be having is that they spam them. If they are cooking a grenade for 2 seconds between grenade spams, is that going to cheer you up and change your mind enough to say it is ok now? It'll be the same thing with 2 seconds between grenade tosses. You are trying to fix a spam problem by changing the item itself. It would be better to have a longer animation and a cooldown between tosses than to keep fooling with when it blows up

So what you're saying is, you're mad your kdr is bad? Okay. I didn't even say you suck. I know plenty of people with 1:1 KDRs who are good. Take your "keep your boast hole closed" advice next time maybe? 1.4 is hardly "mowing people down".

I don't even understand what you were getting at. The only thing I have ever said was that the fuse change was wrong, and you say you agree, yet you responded telling me I don't know how to fit my dropsuits(which are all shield tanked mind you).


PS I'm fluffy not sparkly