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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Heavies have 2 major, non-obvious weaknesses (more than 2 weaknesses, but these 2 aren't stressed enough)
They have low scanning stats, meaning they're easy to sneak up on.
They also tend to get cocky; just lure them around a corner into some waiting remote explosives, them OHK them.
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Kiiran-B
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
45
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vane Arcadia wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Laser rifles and mass drivers make heavys cry. With a laser you can easy shot the heavy on distance and cause of his slow movement speed its very easy to keep the beam going. Mass drivers gain extra damage against armor and a few rounds and he should be dead. I just finished mopping my tears - laser rifle just shredded me time and time again.
This is my problem with laser rifles: they shouldn't be effective against heavies. They burn through armour too well they're OP that way. They're supposed to be most effective against shields are they not? |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
261
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I'll disagree with the part of a forge gun having "sniper accuracy can hit anything from any distance, 100% effective to vehicles AND infantry".
With high end skills you only have between 300 to 350 m range and the dispersion makes it an exercise in patience hitting any infantry past 100m. Up close if you miss your shot with the forge you will more often be dead before you can charge a second round or switch to a sidearm.
I DO NOT think they should have added more impulse damage to the forge (the physical push of the weapon against vehicles). While I think it's hilarious to watch an LAV spin out and then make it explode. I don't think this buff was necessary.
Were you saying the SMG needs a buff? I think it finally feels good again for a change. Don't think it really needs anything else.
slight buff on HMG's, forge feels fine against vehicles, OP against infantry, OHK's and splash. put yourself in a corner and no-one can sneak up on you. |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
895
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kiiran-B wrote:Vane Arcadia wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Laser rifles and mass drivers make heavys cry. With a laser you can easy shot the heavy on distance and cause of his slow movement speed its very easy to keep the beam going. Mass drivers gain extra damage against armor and a few rounds and he should be dead. I just finished mopping my tears - laser rifle just shredded me time and time again. This is my problem with laser rifles: they shouldn't be effective against heavies. They burn through armour too well they're OP that way. They're supposed to be most effective against shields are they not?
The thing is A LOT of heavies shield tank and this lets the laser make quick work of them. The laser's efficiency drops once it hits armor. The funny thing is by the time it eats through your shields its DPS has risen for being active for a longer period of time. |
arimal lavaren
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
186
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
Who says Heavies are the only AV? Swarms are tearing stuff up all over the field this build. |
Fargen Icehole
SyNergy Gaming
67
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Baracka Flocka Flame wrote:Ya honestly if this is not a troll, i have to say Heavies are fine right now and like Arch said, maybe even need a buff. I have no problems when i run into a heavy 1v1 most times in my assault suit.. just need to outsmart/outgun them. If you turn a corner and theres a heavy there and theres no where to run.. ya expect to die thats the point.
I don't see where you get saying heavies are AV only too.... a proper squad supporting a heavy HMG can be amazing... Honestly.. i still think this is a troll thread so im not typing more. lol. fat boys can do EVERYTHING while skinny and nornal kids can only infantry, that's not OP at all..
Use AV nades, they're actually VERY effective against ground vehicles. So technically, scouts and assault can also be reasonably effective AV guys. I've seen an assault take out an HAV using AV nades alone. |
Fargen Icehole
SyNergy Gaming
67
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
arimal lavaren wrote:Who says Heavies are the only AV? Swarms are tearing stuff up all over the field this build.
True, totally forgot about swarms too. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
261
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kiiran-B wrote:Vane Arcadia wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Laser rifles and mass drivers make heavys cry. With a laser you can easy shot the heavy on distance and cause of his slow movement speed its very easy to keep the beam going. Mass drivers gain extra damage against armor and a few rounds and he should be dead. I just finished mopping my tears - laser rifle just shredded me time and time again. This is my problem with laser rifles: they shouldn't be effective against heavies. They burn through armour too well they're OP that way. They're supposed to be most effective against shields are they not?
if in optimal range you get 120% damage buff, 20% debuff on armor, balances like a normal shot. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Sentient Archon wrote:Heavies if anything need a buff elaborate.
Heavies have 3 major drawbacks, one is their speed, the other is their size and they cant jump over obstacles. They are very slow to move even with a type 2 or B series and biotic skills. Because they are slow to move, they are easily flanked. They are very big in size, which makes them an easier target. More surface area to shoot on. The cannot jump over obstacles which means they have to move around them.
With that said all a heavy has is his HMG and Forge guns. I dont count AR users running heavy are true heavies. The current HMG damge is about 17. The broadside previous had a damage of 19 which was just enough to deal some nice CQC damage. Now it takes longer to take a person down in CQC. I wont even go into range because HMGS dont have range.
In order to compensate for their clunkiness they do need a weapon that is high damage. Heavies are supposed to be walls by taking damage and dealing damage at the same time. As most heavies dont fullfill this role right now they definitely need some sort of compensation. The best way would be to provide them with weapons that do more damage than what they have now. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Almighty - Do you really understand the roles of heavies? Because I'm confused. We're just AV? How about we're defenders too? Oh, I heard some others saying we're not slayers. Oh and some cute thread way back when way saying how heavies should get nerfed cause he couldn't 1 shot one with a sniper.
You must blow next to your corpies - they shread heavies like it's happy hour at there favorite bar.
and FYI - your idea of how we're unbalanced sucks. You don't mentioned even a third of the things every other class has on us - but I can understand your rage. It's hard losing proto suits just cause you turned a corner and found a heavy whose suit alone is worth your entire set.
But really - this thread is just QQ, heavies have it tough. All you have to do is throw your proto on and just enjoy shredding every heavy who can't afford to keep up with you. First of all I have A series and Geks TYVM (soon b-series though YAY!) if you want to be defenders, okay fine, whatever, completely nerf the HMG then, up clip size 1/4 damage per bullet, it can keep damage up, but not be overpowered, no damage buff for infantry vs heavies. This game is still extremely unbalanced this way, WHAT advantages does my assault suit have on you again? Are you trolling? More mods, better more reasonable prices, and speed alone make it so every heavy out there has to have skill well above your average assault player to not be a pitfall of ISK waste. Every heavy out there currently is a dedicated heavy whose thrown every SP they can get there hands on to make sure they don't suck - cause our drawbacks are hefty and our end game set ups can't keep up with assaults end game set ups. P.S. - If you haven't used the B-series you'll love it - day and night difference from the Type-II :3 Not trolling, our mods don't half make up for your DPS, even at a range, and insaanely high health (specially VK.1) I have a heavy alternate and I stomp on people with it, especially because of the mass variety of weapons that I can use against them@ if they get to rangy with me guess what, EXILE RIFLE@@@ CQC map HMG all day, vehicles, no problem one-three hit with a forge THAT NO OTHER CLASS CAN USE AND IS A LITERAL SNIPER. (I used to be full proto everything way back in replication build :p I miss that build TBQH, most fun, if heavies were like they are now in that build and swarms to, I would pay $300 a year to play no problem.)
Ah, I think I see your point now. Yea out of every class heavies have it the easiest to get in some cheap and easy kills. But that doesn't unbalance us really - because for every 3 people you mowed down getting CQC there's 5 other situations where you would of gotton shredded instead. Just because you know that heavies with an HMG can dominate certain areas doesn't make them unbalanced - a scout with a shotgun could rip you to pieces or an AR user who uses a bit of cover. There's also tons of other ways that a CQC situation HMG heavy could get torn up.
Heavies being able to use 2 more weapons then the other classes isn't a real edge either. It's not like I can throw my Forge on my back as I carry my AR. I run a proto forge but I never get it out on time in some matches. I wish using it didn't light me up like a flaming christmas tree for everyone with a gun to smile over the easy kill the just found.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why you think heavies are OP. If your corpies weren't running around destroying every heavy player I know like it's childs play I may of sounded less agressive - but you realize you belong to a corp that contradicts everything you're saying here.
I hear Imperfects have no heavies - trying to be the first?
TBH - Heavy with HMG + Logi is OP. Surprized there's not a cry for heavies to get a repair cap lol |
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ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
261
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Fargen Icehole wrote:arimal lavaren wrote:Who says Heavies are the only AV? Swarms are tearing stuff up all over the field this build. True, totally forgot about swarms too.
even with a proto-aurum swarm you will not defeat a decently geared tank. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
261
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Fargen Icehole wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Baracka Flocka Flame wrote:Ya honestly if this is not a troll, i have to say Heavies are fine right now and like Arch said, maybe even need a buff. I have no problems when i run into a heavy 1v1 most times in my assault suit.. just need to outsmart/outgun them. If you turn a corner and theres a heavy there and theres no where to run.. ya expect to die thats the point.
I don't see where you get saying heavies are AV only too.... a proper squad supporting a heavy HMG can be amazing... Honestly.. i still think this is a troll thread so im not typing more. lol. fat boys can do EVERYTHING while skinny and nornal kids can only infantry, that's not OP at all.. Use AV nades, they're actually VERY effective against ground vehicles. So technically, scouts and assault can also be reasonably effective AV guys. I've seen an assault take out an HAV using AV nades alone.
LAV possible, not even close to touching a HAV |
Kiiran-B
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
45
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Kiiran-B wrote:Vane Arcadia wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Laser rifles and mass drivers make heavys cry. With a laser you can easy shot the heavy on distance and cause of his slow movement speed its very easy to keep the beam going. Mass drivers gain extra damage against armor and a few rounds and he should be dead. I just finished mopping my tears - laser rifle just shredded me time and time again. This is my problem with laser rifles: they shouldn't be effective against heavies. They burn through armour too well they're OP that way. They're supposed to be most effective against shields are they not? The thing is A LOT of heavies shield tank and this lets the laser make quick work of them. The laser's efficiency drops once it hits armor. The funny thing is by the time it eats through your shields its DPS has risen for being active for a longer period of time.
Yeah I guess, but against me the armour melts as quick as shields. |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
895
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
slight buff on HMG's, forge feels fine against vehicles, OP against infantry, OHK's and splash. put yourself in a corner and no-one can sneak up on you.
The hard couter for this is a good sniper. With the way damage works and should work, you're going to always end up with OHKs from the forge. I think it'd be interesting to test the following tiers for splash radius (Standard: 1 M, Adv: 1.5 M, Proto: 2 M). Breach could have no splash or a .5 m splash radius.
Really don't think HMG needs a buff. Flattening the damage was painful, but this is shared by all of the handheld weapons. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lazers being a distance weapon and heavies having a big hit box = our doom. But it's not awful, LR users are often my favorite encounters.
And the other anorexic classes can use swarm launchers if they want AV. |
Fargen Icehole
SyNergy Gaming
67
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Fargen Icehole wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Baracka Flocka Flame wrote:Ya honestly if this is not a troll, i have to say Heavies are fine right now and like Arch said, maybe even need a buff. I have no problems when i run into a heavy 1v1 most times in my assault suit.. just need to outsmart/outgun them. If you turn a corner and theres a heavy there and theres no where to run.. ya expect to die thats the point.
I don't see where you get saying heavies are AV only too.... a proper squad supporting a heavy HMG can be amazing... Honestly.. i still think this is a troll thread so im not typing more. lol. fat boys can do EVERYTHING while skinny and nornal kids can only infantry, that's not OP at all.. Use AV nades, they're actually VERY effective against ground vehicles. So technically, scouts and assault can also be reasonably effective AV guys. I've seen an assault take out an HAV using AV nades alone. LAV possible, not even close to touching a HAV
You doubt it, but I've SEEN it done. Granted HAV driver was bad, and put himself in a bad spot. He had a 7000HP tank, drove down road on old 3pt map. An assault was on cliffs above tank, and threw three AV nades on it. A heavy forged the tank, but the heavy was then shot by tank. The assault had a nanohive, and by the time the HAV killed the heavy, the assault had replenished his AV nades and threw 3 more.... boom goes the tank! |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
261
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fargen Icehole wrote:
You doubt it, but I've SEEN it done. Granted HAV driver was bad, and put himself in a bad spot. He had a 7000HP tank, drove down road on old 3pt map. An assault was on cliffs above tank, and threw three AV nades on it. A heavy forged the tank, but the heavy was then shot by tank. The assault had a nanohive, and by the time the HAV killed the heavy, the assault had replenished his AV nades and threw 3 more.... boom goes the tank!
do you not see my point in that paragraph, the assault SUPPORTED the heavy, like a heavy should SUPPORT and assault when it comes to infantry battles. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
LAV possible, not even close to touching a HAV
My boy Legan destroyed a 6000 Shield 1200 Armor gunlogi with his HMG and AV Nades. He had a little help from me with the forge gun. But in the end the killfeed was him.
I have killed a similar gunlogi with flux nades and my exile. True I had another tank firing at him but the kill was registered to me.
There are various creative ways to kill HAVs. My favorite is running and jumping on the enemy tanks and throwing flux nades at them. I die every time but it sure does **** them off. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Lazers being a distance weapon and heavies having a big hit box = our doom. But it's not awful, LR users are often my favorite encounters.
And the other anorexic classes can use swarm launchers if they want AV.
Not really- Type 1 heavies heave so much armor it'll take an hour for a laser to kill them.
Mass drivers are pretty useful, as far as light weapons to kill them with. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 17:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
You guys arguing that AV nades can take on HAV is ridiculous. Any situation can happen in a game if you play enough - what almighty is talkin' about is the norm. AV nades blow vs HAV, but that's fine. You should of used Swarm Launchers anyways :) |
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SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Lazers being a distance weapon and heavies having a big hit box = our doom. But it's not awful, LR users are often my favorite encounters.
And the other anorexic classes can use swarm launchers if they want AV. Not really- Type 1 heavies heave so much armor it'll take an hour for a laser to kill them. Mass drivers are pretty useful, as far as light weapons to kill them with.
My experience is it takes seconds - but that's in my armor militia. |
ALM1GHTY STATIUS
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
261
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
LAV possible, not even close to touching a HAV
My boy Legan destroyed a 6000 Shield 1200 Armor gunlogi with his HMG and AV Nades. He had a little help from me with the forge gun. But in the end the killfeed was him. I have killed a similar gunlogi with flux nades and my exile. True I had another tank firing at him but the kill was registered to me. There are various creative ways to kill HAVs. My favorite is running and jumping on the enemy tanks and throwing flux nades at them. I die every time but it sure does **** them off.
if they un-nerfed my AR I wouldn't care YO! you can get a killfeed saying you killed a tank with 9k shields with an assault rifle, but in reality it was the forge that did that work, back in older builds (fantasizing about older builds ahhhhhh.....) my ar did as much as it said it did, not 10x less
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Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: back in older builds (fantasizing about older builds ahhhhhh.....) my ar did as much as it said it did, not 10x less
You mean back in the older days when we used to jump on those silly tanks and fire our creodons into it till it exploded? 
Bring em back  |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: back in older builds (fantasizing about older builds ahhhhhh.....) my ar did as much as it said it did, not 10x less
You mean back in the older days when we used to jump on those silly tanks and fire our creodons into it till it exploded? Bring em back
I actually expect them to remove heavies completely one day and make more use of a single player being able to solo a tank. Like being able to jump on a tank - open the latch - and drop a nade. With the required SP points ofc to make it work. |
Vane Arcadia
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
115
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Baracka Flocka Flame wrote:Ya honestly if this is not a troll, i have to say Heavies are fine right now and like Arch said, maybe even need a buff. I have no problems when i run into a heavy 1v1 most times in my assault suit.. just need to outsmart/outgun them. If you turn a corner and theres a heavy there and theres no where to run.. ya expect to die thats the point.
I don't see where you get saying heavies are AV only too.... a proper squad supporting a heavy HMG can be amazing... Honestly.. i still think this is a troll thread so im not typing more. lol. fat boys can do EVERYTHING while skinny and nornal kids can only infantry, that's not OP at all..
they cant carry equipment ... |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Vane Arcadia wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Baracka Flocka Flame wrote:Ya honestly if this is not a troll, i have to say Heavies are fine right now and like Arch said, maybe even need a buff. I have no problems when i run into a heavy 1v1 most times in my assault suit.. just need to outsmart/outgun them. If you turn a corner and theres a heavy there and theres no where to run.. ya expect to die thats the point.
I don't see where you get saying heavies are AV only too.... a proper squad supporting a heavy HMG can be amazing... Honestly.. i still think this is a troll thread so im not typing more. lol. fat boys can do EVERYTHING while skinny and nornal kids can only infantry, that's not OP at all.. they cant carry equipment ...
LOL I completely forgot bout this. God I wish I could carry equipment. I'd be an armored Logibro asap. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:The greatest threat to a heavy is distance, I shred people up close but an enemy with a decent AR can really hurt me and make me scramble for cover if shooting a medium range. If two decent AR's engage me simultaneously at medium range, I usually lose (however if two decent AR's engage me at close range, i usually win).
Keep your distance and frag well.
Difficult to do when they are rolling around in murder taxi. |
Vane Arcadia
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
115
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Vane Arcadia wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Baracka Flocka Flame wrote:Ya honestly if this is not a troll, i have to say Heavies are fine right now and like Arch said, maybe even need a buff. I have no problems when i run into a heavy 1v1 most times in my assault suit.. just need to outsmart/outgun them. If you turn a corner and theres a heavy there and theres no where to run.. ya expect to die thats the point.
I don't see where you get saying heavies are AV only too.... a proper squad supporting a heavy HMG can be amazing... Honestly.. i still think this is a troll thread so im not typing more. lol. fat boys can do EVERYTHING while skinny and nornal kids can only infantry, that's not OP at all.. they cant carry equipment ... LOL I completely forgot bout this. God I wish I could carry equipment. I'd be an armored Logibro asap.
recently I have died several time for lack of a nanohive. Seems nowadays people don't want the easy wp for nanohive deployment.
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Kiiran-B
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
45
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gunner Visari wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:The greatest threat to a heavy is distance, I shred people up close but an enemy with a decent AR can really hurt me and make me scramble for cover if shooting a medium range. If two decent AR's engage me simultaneously at medium range, I usually lose (however if two decent AR's engage me at close range, i usually win).
Keep your distance and frag well. Difficult to do when they are rolling around in murder taxi.
I agree, heavies shouldnt be able to use vehicles it kinda defeats the point does it not? |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2012.12.27 18:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kiiran-B wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:The greatest threat to a heavy is distance, I shred people up close but an enemy with a decent AR can really hurt me and make me scramble for cover if shooting a medium range. If two decent AR's engage me simultaneously at medium range, I usually lose (however if two decent AR's engage me at close range, i usually win).
Keep your distance and frag well. Difficult to do when they are rolling around in murder taxi. I agree, heavies shouldnt be able to use vehicles it kinda defeats the point does it not?
Ive gotten a lot of hate for suggesting it so be careful, really i just dont think they should get to drive them but let em be passengers that way ppl cant go around Manus peak ambush riding dirty solo. Cant tell you the number of times ive seen a heavy ive nearly killed jump back into an LAV to save their sorry butt. But thats a whole other mechanic that irritates me since i cant just shoot them while in the LAV unless they are in gunner position.
Now if i could shoot at them directly while in a vehicles and damage them then they can drive or ride shotty or do whatever else they want because i can at least damage them and they cant use the LAV as a defacto timeout please don't kill me i need to regen mode. |
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