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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
641
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Posted - 2012.12.27 19:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
Low level Heavy > low level Assault
High level Heavy < high level Assault
That's not right. Heavies need a buff, or Assault need a nerf... a heavy should always down an assault player (of equal skill) in a straight out 1v1. Not the other way around.
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HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2242
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Posted - 2012.12.27 19:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
Gunner Visari wrote:Kiiran-B wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:The greatest threat to a heavy is distance, I shred people up close but an enemy with a decent AR can really hurt me and make me scramble for cover if shooting a medium range. If two decent AR's engage me simultaneously at medium range, I usually lose (however if two decent AR's engage me at close range, i usually win).
Keep your distance and frag well. Difficult to do when they are rolling around in murder taxi. I agree, heavies shouldnt be able to use vehicles it kinda defeats the point does it not? Ive gotten a lot of hate for suggesting it so be careful, really i just dont think they should get to drive them but let em be passengers that way ppl cant go around Manus peak ambush riding dirty solo. Cant tell you the number of times ive seen a heavy ive nearly killed jump back into an LAV to save their sorry butt. But thats a whole other mechanic that irritates me since i cant just shoot them while in the LAV unless they are in gunner position. Now if i could shoot at them directly while in a vehicles and damage them then they can drive or ride shotty or do whatever else they want because i can at least damage them and they cant use the LAV as a defacto timeout please don't kill me i need to regen mode.
Actually you most certainly can shoot the driver out. Shotties'work well snipers can kill em while driving ask sleepy he is really good at it makes me laugh every time. Even the hmg can take em out quickly 'a'well placed grenade too.so work on your aim and have at it. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 19:12:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gunner Visari wrote:Kiiran-B wrote:Gunner Visari wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:The greatest threat to a heavy is distance, I shred people up close but an enemy with a decent AR can really hurt me and make me scramble for cover if shooting a medium range. If two decent AR's engage me simultaneously at medium range, I usually lose (however if two decent AR's engage me at close range, i usually win).
Keep your distance and frag well. Difficult to do when they are rolling around in murder taxi. I agree, heavies shouldnt be able to use vehicles it kinda defeats the point does it not? Ive gotten a lot of hate for suggesting it so be careful, really i just dont think they should get to drive them but let em be passengers that way ppl cant go around Manus peak ambush riding dirty solo. Cant tell you the number of times ive seen a heavy ive nearly killed jump back into an LAV to save their sorry butt. But thats a whole other mechanic that irritates me since i cant just shoot them while in the LAV unless they are in gunner position. Now if i could shoot at them directly while in a vehicles and damage them then they can drive or ride shotty or do whatever else they want because i can at least damage them and they cant use the LAV as a defacto timeout please don't kill me i need to regen mode. I've been begging for LAV's to be taken off as free and bikes be added instead that can't OHK people without major driving skill. Cause I agree - us fatties with free LAV's is a pain for everyone else lol |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
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Posted - 2012.12.27 19:21:00 -
[64] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Fluffeh Ingle wrote:So what you are saying is that you are upset that Heavies are working as intended 1v1 or with Logibro Backup? If you have that problem run away, or starting working in tandem with other people. Contrary to how most imperfects play that I have observed, Dust is not balanced around Rambo tactics.
Irish I'm talking about an infantry suit that can AV and assault as the same while no other class can, how they have higher DPS than any other class, and do not server there intended purpose.
So you're saying you don't like it because it can do AV and assault very well. KInda like how an assault suit using an AR does well in assault and another using a swarm launcher does very well in AV. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.12.27 19:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
I hate the damage that heavies can inflict on me as an assault,but I have to admit,with all the SP and ISK it takes to have a very good heavy fit,I think that it's pretty balanced.
Gang up on heavies from multiple angles and they will crumble like anyone else. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
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Posted - 2012.12.27 19:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
Heavies are slow, a big and high value target, they have no equipment, can't jump over obstacles and have a long reload on their main weapons.
The only thing I find myself in agreement with is the range that they can reach (onced skilled). But this might be for the better as I hear running a good heavy is costly, other than that I would say they are good at what they do.
Now making a heavy so he can't drive might be interesting, he can still be a passenger, wouldn't see them doing drive-byes and see them pair up with a logi to taxi them about. Wouldn't see the tank inside of tank irony that happens when you blow up a tank.Would be a good thing to test in beta. |
lordjanuz
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation
88
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:04:00 -
[67] - Quote
Yes if you run on open fields I am dead if I run Heavy , but I use it most in closed area trying to hold a Point. Semi-close its very good.
But not OP , working as intended. |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
Alright, so I don't know if the OP was here for replication, but let me go ahead and tell a story, a story of heavies that had 1200 armor on the militia tier, and a hell of a lot more at the proto tier. In this world, I very rarely heard people complain about OP-ness, despite the fact that the heavy suit in this world was 5x as powerful as out heavy suit now.
What I think I'm trying to say here is: HTFU. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
OP getting 0 likes is a good indication of how everyone else feels about heavies being OP. They're not. |
Fargen Icehole
SyNergy Gaming
67
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
Most of us recognize that the Heavy is a powerful opponent, but has many weaknesses. OP wants to not have to even think about how to exploit it's weaknesses, just run straight on into a heavy and fire his AR and expect a +50 to appear. |
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
169
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
A Heavy can't hack multiple objectives...
Get a scout (or vk. 1 Logi) with very low detection, high hacking skills with codebreaker and remote explosives for easy skirmish matches. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2282
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Posted - 2012.12.27 20:48:00 -
[72] - Quote
Baracka Flocka Flame wrote:So is this a troll post ? I can't tell .. lol.
Nope, since i know almighty hes always been like this so yea hes srs........ |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2012.12.27 21:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:I hate the damage that heavies can inflict on me as an assault,but I have to admit,with all the SP and ISK it takes to have a very good heavy fit,I think that it's pretty balanced.
Gang up on heavies from multiple angles and they will crumble like anyone else.
I have played you and I can easily say HMG damage is not problem. The last time we met i killed you with my toxin and lasers so many times. And you were running a logi suit. Here you say you run as an assault.
Anyway it wouldnt matter. Skill does come into play out here which you certainly need help with. |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
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Posted - 2012.12.27 21:10:00 -
[74] - Quote
I can't even make it up a flight of stairs!
A heavy might seem OP if you try to 1v1 it, kinda like standing infront of a tank alone with a swarm launcher.
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
323
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Posted - 2012.12.27 23:26:00 -
[75] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:I hate the damage that heavies can inflict on me as an assault,but I have to admit,with all the SP and ISK it takes to have a very good heavy fit,I think that it's pretty balanced.
Gang up on heavies from multiple angles and they will crumble like anyone else. I have played you and I can easily say HMG damage is not problem. The last time we met i killed you with my toxin and lasers so many times. And you were running a logi suit. Here you say you run as an assault. Anyway it wouldnt matter. Skill does come into play out here which you certainly need help with.
Huh?
So because I have a Logi avatar and run Logi a couple of times,that automatically makes me Logi?
You do know that there are multiple fits and classes that you can run on the same character,right?
I wasn't complaining about the damage,I just said that I don't like it when I run into a heavy when I happen to be alone.
What part of "I think that it's pretty balanced",didn't you understand?
QFT. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2012.12.27 23:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
All the good points have already been covered, but -1 for debuffing heavies, OP needs to learn how to fight them, protip don't got full re-tard (why is that word even censored) and try to fight them point blank. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
143
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Posted - 2012.12.27 23:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
I'd have to disagree. I feel that the balance of the suits is coming together very nicely. This game is different from most shooters in that your tactics must drastically change based on suit. I am a scout player myself and I do not feel they are underpowered. In my option scouts are more suited to taking out heavys than any other suit due to their ablility to out maneuver them. I rarely lose a one on fight with a heavy unless I'm caught off guard |
HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2242
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Posted - 2012.12.27 23:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
My question is why doesn't the heavy have a level one bpo like every other suit! |
Deeez Nuttz
Doomheim
12
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:My question is why doesn't the heavy have a level one bpo like every other suit!
Yeah, that would cut down the cost of running my basic heavy fit quite a lot... |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:06:00 -
[80] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Okay so let's look at our facts here, heavies have the most health, move slower, turn slightly slower, and have the best all around weapons in the game. oh yeah and they can use ANY weapon they please.
Forge: sniper accuracy can hit anything from any distance, 100% effective to vehicles AND infantry. HMG: EXTREMELY powerful against other infantry units scout/assault/heavy, the only thing that takes this down with a geared opponent is basically a forge gun to the face. Only slightly less damage vs vehicles or other mechanical devices (turrets CRU etc etc)
if they wish they can use assaults, smgs, snipers, pistols, w/e.
now let's look at out runner up (because scout is a little bit of a joke atm eh?)
Assault, medium health, quicker health recharge, turn quicker, weapons only effective against other infantry. there are NO infantry specific weapons.
Now, what do I propose we do to balance our clearly off-balance scale? nerf heavies against infantry, HARD, they are supposed to be anti-vehicle tanks, basically buff there health A LOT, nerf their weapons vs infantry, forge gun should be okay still vs vehicles, infantry units deal more damage to heavies, HMG does 1/2 of it's current damage (preferably less but I'll throw you a bone with this drastic change that I'm hoping for.) and heavies CANNOT use anything except pistol, SMG, Heavy specifics, and swarms.
heavies are the current kings of the battlefield and cannot properly, in my opinion do their jobs which is supposed to be anti-vehicle. As of now I see heavies as 70% infantry 30% AV, ridiculous.
if you respond to this post with a stupid, not thought out, pre-judged response, I will not respond to you.
Heavies have high health, but their speed is a huge sacrifice that makes them easy targets at range for ARs, lasers, and snipers; sure a heavy can get sharpshooter, but so can those who prey on the heavy who already have greater range to start off with. Another point of balance is the lack of equipment. This makes heavies much more dependent on teamwork with a logi more than any other dropsuit. Finally, there is the massive price tag. Heavies and their weapons are considerably more expensive then their lighter counterparts. Heavies only have 2 weapons right now that only they can use; frankly if they didn't have that, then there really would be no point in playing as a heavy because the disadvantages would outweigh the advantages.
I don't understand where you're getting the idea that heavies are suppose to be AV only. There is a reason why CCP gave them the HMG. Clearly a heavy is designed to be able to do both AV, and AI (anti-infantry). AI HMG heavies are formidable, but the pay a much higher price tag, are dependent on logistics support more than any other suit, and are slow easy targets at range.
If you're standing still enough to get hit by a slowly charging forge gun, despite the light show and noise, then you deserved to die. At range, its fairly difficult to actually hit tiny infantry targets because of the lack of aiming-down-sight.
In light of all this, I must disagree with you. |
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kellyn whiteheart
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
54
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
heavies r close quarters bullet absorbing infantry tanks.. they r doin there job. i run logi and when i get a couple corp mate heavies in my squad on a skrimish we can hold basically any point we want indefinantly so long as a geared tank dont show up. heavys can stop an entire rush on a point seen it happen. so they do there job well. of course i stopped an advance by myself with a mss driver (before the clip buff)
tldr: heavies are fine GTFO |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
441
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Posted - 2012.12.28 00:50:00 -
[82] - Quote
No no and no, get gud scrub. |
Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1026
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:09:00 -
[83] - Quote
I have one answer. Equipment slots. Put some Remote Explosives down. By far, THE best way to counter a Heavy. |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
441
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
if you respond to this post with a stupid, not thought out, pre-judged response, I will not respond to you
OK then.
Heavies have no equipment slots, you try running around without any equipment and see how much fun that is
You try running at Assault walking speed for half the length you can with an assault suitt with slower stamina regen
You will have fewer slots than assault and less cpu & pg
Try having about twice the hitbox you have now, with the above mentioned speed
A standard heavy drops normally after 40 well placed AR rounds
Ive never met a heavy I couldnt drop in a clip if not too far away
A fantastically good VK1 proto assault suit cost 90k isk, the equivalent heavy cost 250 K
Those were just of the top of my head...
I havent bothered to read through this thread but youre way out of line
- You can always tank up your Assault suit to over 700 HP....
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
641
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:11:00 -
[85] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:I have one answer. Equipment slots. Put some Remote Explosives down. By far, THE best way to counter a Heavy.
never happened to me. Too many nades being thrown around these days for this tactic to work.
Edit: might work on dumb heavies who don't know what they're doing, and chase down kills. |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
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Posted - 2012.12.28 01:16:00 -
[86] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:My question is why doesn't the heavy have a level one bpo like every other suit!
I agree, seems like you guys got bent over on that deal, there doesn't need to be a MAG faction to name the suit after, but that seems like the only reason they didn't put one in. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2012.12.28 11:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
Yes, heavies are so very OP. that 55k isk cost per fit of a heavy II, one level 3 HMG, militia smg bpo, militia locus grenade bpo, two militia shield extender bpo, one militia armor repair is clearly OP.
After all, paying five times what my opponents do to be a bit harder to lolblast is completely overpowered.
Yeah. the only buff heavies need is a price reduction. the only buff they need when fighting is a logibro at their back. |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
159
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Posted - 2012.12.28 13:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:They are tiered. This should not change. It's like saying a frigate in Eve should be as powerful as a Battleship. It is illogical. THIS IS A VIDEO GAME, THROW LOGIC OUT THE WINDOW I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY THIS.
For real you dont want any logic in the game?
Please CCP if you dont already know this merc obviously stands in the slim minority. The majority not only want logic, we actually think the more logical the game is for its mechanics and lore the better it is.
guys do you understand that most of the balance talk and changes being made to the game at this stage is premature and very likely to change since we dont even have all the suit classes, weapons, modules etc in game yet
Heavies are fine. just like you they kill me when i get too close to them. that doesnt mean they are OP it simply means i got too close.
if you think heavies are OP then use one and you now will be on equal footing. problem solved you are welcome |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
155
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Posted - 2012.12.28 14:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
1.Heavies OP. Kill everything and can't die.
Nerf.
2.Assault OP. Kill everything and can't die.
Nerf.
3. AV weapons OP. Vehicles can't protect now nerfed assaults and heavies.
Nerf.
4.Vehicles OP. Roll over everything and can't explode.
Nerf.
5.Scouts OP. Hack and snipe everything and can't find.
Nerf.
6. Heavies OP... And we've seen this before.
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Aspects that increase chance of winning, from most effective to least, are as follows:
Teamwork > Loadouts and gear > Vehicles
The fact that teamwork is the greatest decider of a match outcome, or so I've experienced, means the game is perfectly fine.
Most of you also seem to concur. This discussion about coordinating movements with a teammate to wipe a heavy, combining a logibro and heavy to create a regenerating death machine, all point towards an agreement that teamwork is imperative to winning. Knowing your teammates is crucial. Watching each others' backs is vital.
In conclusion,
pubstomping is painful, more so than losing gear because you weren't working with your team.
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heart u
Doomheim
8
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Posted - 2012.12.28 15:15:00 -
[90] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Fluffeh Ingle wrote:So what you are saying is that you are upset that Heavies are working as intended 1v1 or with Logibro Backup? If you have that problem run away, or starting working in tandem with other people. Contrary to how most imperfects play that I have observed, Dust is not balanced around Rambo tactics.
Irish I'm talking about an infantry suit that can AV and assault as the same while no other class can, how they have higher DPS than any other class, and do not server there intended purpose.
Every class can use swarmlaunchers fairly sure they are AV? |
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