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Sev Alcatraz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 185	Posted - 2012.12.20 06:17:00 - [1] - Quote I hate em, they do almost the same damage as a large rail gun and are more mobile then a tank. I have a 1.1 million gunlogi and if i get 1 guy from far away with a forge gun i am literately screwed because that one guy can run and hide in cover where i am stuck out in the open with my lumbering pile of expensive parts. 4 shots to knock down 8680 shields no where to run because that 1 guy can move around easer then the tank can ether buff the tank or nerf the forge gun by about 400 direct damage in one battle i lost 2.1 mil in tanks and other armoured vehicles to forge guns and swarms. it's hardly worth dumping money into a decent tank because the odds of getting halfway through the battle with it is slim and nill.
Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.20 06:29:00 - [2] - Quote Works as intended in my opinion. You brought a tank to random and rode it alone. You wanted to stomp on randoms, but instead lose good portion of ISKs. You should use cheap dropsuites and vehicles in randoms in my opinion.
Dante Dragonsguard Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 22	Posted - 2012.12.20 06:42:00 - [3] - Quote Sev that was your fault. No matter what you can take more hits than the forg where he can only take one hit from the rail. Also if you don't have piece of cover for your tank then that is your fault. You shouldn't have exposed it in a way where you can get hit over and over again in quick succession.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 285	Posted - 2012.12.20 19:03:00 - [4] - Quote This is like me asking for a sniper rifle nerf because they can shoot my fat suit when I'm in the open. Were you expecting to just roll over everyone?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.20 19:16:00 - [5] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: more mobile then a tank. HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. If you don't know how to evade, that's your own fault. Also, Forge guns don't turn into tanks after being more mobile than something you failed to specify, so I'm assuming you meant "than" instead of "then".
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.20 21:33:00 - [6] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: more mobile then a tank. HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. HAVs can't charge their railgun in cover, hold the charge, pop out of cover, then fire to charge in cover again.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2012.12.20 21:34:00 - [7] - Quote I've seen them do that!
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2012.12.20 21:37:00 - [8] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: more mobile then a tank. HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. HAVs can't charge their railgun in cover, hold the charge, pop out of cover, then fire to charge in cover again. You're right, instead they sit in the red line destroying everything in sight. The only way I've ever seen to balance all the QQ bout tanks is higher there health and lower there DPS so they can take a beating but not overwhelm an unprepared side.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2012.12.20 21:37:00 - [9] - Quote It's kind of like a dangerous game of peek-a-boo!
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.20 21:40:00 - [10] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: more mobile then a tank. HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. HAVs can't charge their railgun in cover, hold the charge, pop out of cover, then fire to charge in cover again. You're right, instead they sit in the red line destroying everything in sight. The only way I've ever seen to balance all the QQ bout tanks is higher there health and lower there DPS so they can take a beating but not overwhelm an unprepared side. That COULD be a very good temporary solution. OFC when we get things like larger battles and a wider selection of vehicles, they should have the DPS they do now, with more health. As far as redline railguns, I've seen redline forge gunners in a few games too. One took out every single turret on my team's side within the first 3 minutes of a skirmish.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.20 21:49:00 - [11] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: more mobile then a tank. HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. HAVs can't charge their railgun in cover, hold the charge, pop out of cover, then fire to charge in cover again. No, but they CAN charge while moving out of cover, fire THREE TIMES WITHOUT NEEDING TO CHARGE AGAIN then continue on to the next cover, recharge their damaged shields and/or armour faster than the Heavy suit shooting them, then do it again while said Heavy is still wounded and they're not.
Ancient Warden Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.23 07:14:00 - [12] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: more mobile then a tank. HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. HAVs can't charge their railgun in cover, hold the charge, pop out of cover, then fire to charge in cover again. No, but they CAN charge while moving out of cover, fire THREE TIMES WITHOUT NEEDING TO CHARGE AGAIN then continue on to the next cover, recharge their damaged shields and/or armour faster than the Heavy suit shooting them, then do it again while said Heavy is still wounded and they're not. 1 heavy shouldnt be able to kill 1 tank. I see no problem here. My armor tanks a sitting duck when friendlies wander off and gets blown to pieces by multiple people quickly anyway. Play with organized people and you won't lose your tanks as often. Don't tackle a tank unless you have help.
Tzaar Bomba Doomheim 174	Posted - 2012.12.23 07:23:00 - [13] - Quote Infantry is always more mobile then tanks. Stop running your mouths about it being a pilots fault when a forge gunner is sitting in back behind a mountain or on a roof top. Much more maneuverable then a tank. They can climb hills and buildings tanks cant. Moreover now infantry has too many a.v options. Too effective even with current buffs in place. Forge guns have no range limit, swarm launchers turn 90 degrees.each have a base of 1200 damage at militia level. Doesnt matter how hampered the speed of the infantry is if they can get behind a hill or a wall. No gun has the capability to kill fast enough. Tanks are massive awkward beasts. Cant get around to cover fast enough and most times we dont fit.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 428	Posted - 2012.12.23 07:31:00 - [14] - Quote Don't bring an obese hen to a cockfight. If you are coordinated, which you should if you're bringing that much ISK to the field, then you would use Team/Squad chat and request a hit on a forge on a hill. Snipers have nothing better to do most of the time, and forge-hunting is almost like a hobby of theirs. But yeah, my solution would be to classify forges even greater than heavy, so that in the future, only super-heavies can wield them, at the loss of a secondary weapon. Balance. That way, a forge gunner would be about as useful against infantry as a Swarm Launcher thus imposing a legitimate risk to using them other than being public enemy #1. Just my approach. I don't expect it to even be considered, so don't make a big deal. It's very hypothetical.
Exmaple Core UnReaL. 135	Posted - 2012.12.23 07:32:00 - [15] - Quote I was in the same battle with Sev and lost my tank right after his to a forge gunner. Im a heavy with a forgegun and i think theyre OP too. a single man should never be able to compete in AV with a tank. Its nonscenceable how a small forge gun can get more shots off than a tank for more damage. Whats the point of running a tank if infaintry can solo it? Thats a waste of about a million isk
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.23 07:58:00 - [16] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: I was in the same battle with Sev and lost my tank right after his to a forge gunner. Im a heavy with a forgegun and i think theyre OP too. a single man should never be able to compete in AV with a tank. Its nonscenceable how a small forge gun can get more shots off than a tank for more damage. Whats the point of running a tank if infaintry can solo it? Thats a waste of about a million isk I do agree with you, there is no point to vehicles unless swarms stop going around cover and following paths.. and forge gunners shouldn't be able to deal that much damage, they should be dealing 400-700 HP shots as much as a mass driver and have MASSIVE splash damage but have to get in fairly close. that would be a good way of balancing it, cause us HAV drivers have to get in super close to you guys cause you can SNIPE halfway across the map out of LOS or scan range. and your FORGE GUNNERS are a much SMALLER, TARGET as where an HAV is a MUCH BIGGER TARGET. DO YOU SEE WHY PEOPLE ***** AND MOAN ABOUT FORGE GUNNERS?! You guys are packing as much damage as a proto railgun and your ten times more mobile and have ten times more options to survive. once again vehicles have EVERTYTHING against them. I will repeat myself, when's the last time you died due to swarms going around the corner and targetting your dropsuit?
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2012.12.23 08:03:00 - [17] - Quote railgun range got hit with the nerfbat
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.12.23 08:07:00 - [18] - Quote Saying that a forge gun is competing with a tank suggests that the forge gunner is standing out in the open, going toe to toe with that tank, and coming out on top. In other words: complete nonsense. Heavies who take advantage of terrain and driver error should always come out on top.
Vexen Krios Doomheim 95	Posted - 2012.12.23 08:19:00 - [19] - Quote How do you guys feel about the military then a single RPG can take out most armored vehicles with one shot...its the same concept. And to kill ur tank in four shots he had probably speced into forge man. If not he was using the breach at best and if you couldnt get away from a single guy with a breach forge gun then its ur fault man
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.12.23 08:27:00 - [20] - Quote Most tanks armor plating consists of 3 stages internal , external composite and outer reactive most tanks have an armor thickness of 150 mm meaning an RPG would have a hard time penetrating it thus deal NO damage at all ; keep playing call of duty.

Django Quik R.I.f.t 219	Posted - 2012.12.23 08:35:00 - [21] - Quote FGs are vulnerable to ANTI-INFANTRY weapons - HAVs are vulnerable to ANTI-VEHICLE weapons. They're called that because they are specifically designed to take down vehicles. I really don't know how many times this exact conversation has to be had on these forums. In real life one hit from an ANTI-TANK weapon to a TANK and you're in serious trouble, you get hit 4 times, no chance! And guess what real life anti-tank weapons only cost a 1000th of a tank. How do real tanks counter this stuff? They move in squads of tanks, with aerial and ground back up to spot and take out the anti-tank weapons. Let me guess - you are complaining because you brought out your tank in a random battle on your own with no squad or team coordination or back up and even if there were other vehicles in the battle, you weren't really working together and surprise surprise the enemy managed to kill your tank. Get over it - you got ANTI-TANKED when you brought out your TANK! Those FGs and swarms probably died to infantry shortly after because their primary weapon is not designed for use against ARs or Snipers. That's their downfall for bringing a cannon to a gun fight... wait, this sounds familiar...
Django Quik R.I.f.t 219	Posted - 2012.12.23 08:42:00 - [22] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Most tanks armor plating consists of 3 stages internal , external composite and outer reactive most tanks have an armor thickness of 150 mm meaning an RPG would have a hard time penetrating it thus deal NO damage at all ; keep playing call of duty. Just to clarify here - I don't think the guy who said RPG meant RPG. He most likely meant some form of actual anti-tank weapon like a Javelin, rather than something used to blow up light vehicles and infantry.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 319	Posted - 2012.12.23 09:18:00 - [23] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: I hate em, they do almost the same damage as a large rail gun and are more mobile then a tank. I have a 1.1 million gunlogi and if i get 1 guy from far away with a forge gun i am literately screwed because that one guy can run and hide in cover where i am stuck out in the open with my lumbering pile of expensive parts. 4 shots to knock down 8680 shields no where to run because that 1 guy can move around easer then the tank can ether buff the tank or nerf the forge gun by about 400 direct damage in one battle i lost 2.1 mil in tanks and other armoured vehicles to forge guns and swarms. it's hardly worth dumping money into a decent tank because the odds of getting halfway through the battle with it is slim and nill. Everything you said is a lie (In terms of Forge guns) Militia damage is on par with large railgun. They are definately not as mobile as a tank. They have limited range. Seems like anything beyond 300m doesn't register a hit. As a heavy you can't run away very well and you are an easy target for all infantry. 4 militia forge gun hits will hardly get you to half shields and they only have 3 shots per clip. If you are getting creamed by militia gear, you just plain suck.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.23 09:33:00 - [24] - Quote I think the more likely story is hes getting either shot by multiple forge guns in rapid succession or hes using militia tanks with costly mods. Yes, successful AV heavies operate in teams frequently. Probably also means you should use something other than a maincannon railgun to potshot infantry. I suggest missiles for the splash damage or blasters for machinegun effect. having secondary gunners for antipersonnel wetwork helps a lot, as... you know... Thats what they are for. Gunnlogi with bigass railguns dont get me all that often.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.12.23 13:34:00 - [25] - Quote Swarms - Can lock on through cover - OP, can jump when firing - OP, missiles follow HAVs around cover - OP, Rare glitch when invisable missiles hit you Forge guns - Does more damage than a large railgun which needs a vehicle to be mounted on and takes far more PG to equip and also requires much less ISK/SP to use, can also jump when charging/hold charge, also a cheap milita version 1200 damage HAVs - Current round of nerfs means less CPU, nerf on railgun damage and range, armor plates have bigger movement penalties As it is HAVs are getting patched out of the game Only 1 turret which has been left untouched the blaster while missiles are useless and railguns are good for long range sniping Forge guns hurt harder than a railgun lol joke and swarms still broken and follow you around like a dog from the redzone Price tag for top tanks are no longer worth it, 1.2mil for an extra 1000 shield and 1 low slot why bother, spend 200k for the gunlogi and fit it up for less than 500k sure you will lose it but its not a big hit to the wallet overall considering you can make 350k in a match
Reout Karaal Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.12.23 15:04:00 - [26] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Swarms - Can lock on through cover - OP, can jump when firing - OP, missiles follow HAVs around cover - OP, Rare glitch when invisable missiles hit you Forge guns - Does more damage than a large railgun which needs a vehicle to be mounted on and takes far more PG to equip and also requires much less ISK/SP to use, can also jump when charging/hold charge, also a cheap milita version 1200 damage HAVs - Current round of nerfs means less CPU, nerf on railgun damage and range, armor plates have bigger movement penalties As it is HAVs are getting patched out of the game Only 1 turret which has been left untouched the blaster while missiles are useless and railguns are good for long range sniping Forge guns hurt harder than a railgun lol joke and swarms still broken and follow you around like a dog from the redzone Price tag for top tanks are no longer worth it, 1.2mil for an extra 1000 shield and 1 low slot why bother, spend 200k for the gunlogi and fit it up for less than 500k sure you will lose it but its not a big hit to the wallet overall considering you can make 350k in a match LOLtanker QQing over not being able to roll over randoms in pub matches. Have fun at that redline party. Honestly even in previous build if you pissed a 4 man squad we just drove behind you in a non-militia LAV and unleashed 3 forges in your behind along with 3rd tier AV nades. It was the same with dropships -- one squad salvo to the belly and it's gone, but the QQ in the forums killed small turrets nevertheless. You were actually happy about making DSes extinct, how could you not see tanks getting hit with da nerf bat next? So you were a loltanker and it's not working for you now, cry me a river. Enjoy your wasted skills, like DS pilots before you, then re-spec. And enjoy militia forge gunners with damage mods owning your cheaper tanks at 1/100th of the cost. Or IDK, just keep on QQing, god knows QQing & dev griefing is what's making DUST so much better every build. /s
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:41:00 - [27] - Quote I played secondary turret gunner for several tank drivers. the kill rack up was epic. never died once. but also the driver never stood still longer than it took to take a shot. this prevented forges from popup dummying and made them have to relocate to take shots. we popped in and took shots then rolled to next target. every so often id jump out and rep it. I got a retardastupid nmber of kills. and we finished with the tank intact. the guy drove like he drove realworld m1 abrams for a living and we dominated. Its not about the AV power. its the tactics. a tank is a device to support and be supported by infantry. so we concentrated on areas where our blueberries in boots were attacking. It was gloriously one sided.
Vexen Krios Doomheim 95	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:49:00 - [28] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Most tanks armor plating consists of 3 stages internal , external composite and outer reactive most tanks have an armor thickness of 150 mm meaning an RPG would have a hard time penetrating it thus deal NO damage at all ; keep playing call of duty. i said MOST armored VEHICLES i never said anything about a tank...keep making yourself sound like an ass.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 219	Posted - 2012.12.23 18:51:00 - [29] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I played secondary turret gunner for several tank drivers. the kill rack up was epic. never died once. but also the driver never stood still longer than it took to take a shot. this prevented forges from popup dummying and made them have to relocate to take shots. we popped in and took shots then rolled to next target. every so often id jump out and rep it. I got a retardastupid nmber of kills. and we finished with the tank intact. the guy drove like he drove realworld m1 abrams for a living and we dominated. Its not about the AV power. its the tactics. a tank is a device to support and be supported by infantry. so we concentrated on areas where our blueberries in boots were attacking. It was gloriously one sided. Right, that's me watching out for you guys tanking it out on the field from now on! This is exactly what we need though - people knowing how to tank properly and not just thinking they can jump in a big gun and take on the world. I look forward to trying to take you on sometime with my super AV suit and any back up I can get - afterall that's how HAV vs AV is supposed to be. Bring it on.
Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.12.23 19:13:00 - [30] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: more mobile then a tank. HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. After accelerating for around 5 seconds, yeah.



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