DUST Search - Forge guns and swarms vs tanks ....

EnglishSnake wrote:

Swarms - Can lock on through cover - OP, can jump when firing - OP, missiles follow HAVs around cover - OP, Rare glitch when invisable missiles hit you

Forge guns - Does more damage than a large railgun which needs a vehicle to be mounted on and takes far more PG to equip and also requires much less ISK/SP to use, can also jump when charging/hold charge, also a cheap milita version 1200 damage

HAVs - Current round of nerfs means less CPU, nerf on railgun damage and range, armor plates have bigger movement penalties

As it is HAVs are getting patched out of the game

Only 1 turret which has been left untouched the blaster while missiles are useless and railguns are good for long range sniping

Forge guns hurt harder than a railgun lol joke and swarms still broken and follow you around like a dog from the redzone

Price tag for top tanks are no longer worth it, 1.2mil for an extra 1000 shield and 1 low slot why bother, spend 200k for the gunlogi and fit it up for less than 500k sure you will lose it but its not a big hit to the wallet overall considering you can make 350k in a match

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Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2012.12.23 19:18:00 - [31] - Quote Be smart and go Sagaris. Seriously, Sagaris is a ***** to take down even with combined fire.
Vermaak Kuvakei Doomheim 88	Posted - 2012.12.23 19:18:00 - [32] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Most tanks armor plating consists of 3 stages internal , external composite and outer reactive most tanks have an armor thickness of 150 mm meaning an RPG would have a hard time penetrating it thus deal NO damage at all ; keep playing call of duty. Javelin missile system, nuff said
Vermaak Kuvakei Doomheim 88	Posted - 2012.12.23 19:25:00 - [33] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Swarms - Can lock on through cover - OP, can jump when firing - OP, missiles follow HAVs around cover - OP, Rare glitch when invisable missiles hit you Forge guns - Does more damage than a large railgun which needs a vehicle to be mounted on and takes far more PG to equip and also requires much less ISK/SP to use, can also jump when charging/hold charge, also a cheap milita version 1200 damage HAVs - Current round of nerfs means less CPU, nerf on railgun damage and range, armor plates have bigger movement penalties As it is HAVs are getting patched out of the game Only 1 turret which has been left untouched the blaster while missiles are useless and railguns are good for long range sniping Forge guns hurt harder than a railgun lol joke and swarms still broken and follow you around like a dog from the redzone Price tag for top tanks are no longer worth it, 1.2mil for an extra 1000 shield and 1 low slot why bother, spend 200k for the gunlogi and fit it up for less than 500k sure you will lose it but its not a big hit to the wallet overall considering you can make 350k in a match For your first and second whines about the swarm:Since when does going into cover break a locked on missile's bead on a target? Third: So? You can outrun any infantry yet you complain that the use their mobility to an advantage. Also, as far as i can tell theu currently fire on a recoiless system. Fourth: just a visual glitch, it would hit either way
Washlee UnReaL. 131	Posted - 2012.12.23 20:15:00 - [34] - Quote I have a 1.8M Sagris. Yes I dislike forge gun VS Tanks But I really Hate Grimlock Forge Vs Tank I get so outclass xD Maybe 50k-250k Suit w/ Forge Gun VS 1.8M Tank Usually the suit does a pretty good job and blows my tank off the ground.
YourDeadAgain76 Red Star. 133	Posted - 2012.12.23 21:20:00 - [35] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: I was in the same battle with Sev and lost my tank right after his to a forge gunner. Im a heavy with a forgegun and i think theyre OP too. a single man should never be able to compete in AV with a tank. Its nonscenceable how a small forge gun can get more shots off than a tank for more damage. Whats the point of running a tank if infaintry can solo it? Thats a waste of about a million isk Amen Maple... I have a Surya with about another mill and half ISK or more with mods and turrents and i dont take it out ever.. cause it gets gang killed or soloed by forge or swarms. LOL im a tanker and i dont bring out anything but my madruger and somas...CCP needs to change some things or noone with waste time driving a HAV. Better things to spend money on than Tanks.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.12.23 22:18:00 - [36] - Quote coming on AV side, of FG's (with minimal tank experience), here is my views. FG tiers are useful to the respective tiers of their rank counter parts to an extent. Basic FG's are good against militia tanks (this is speaking all solo as this is whats being called into question); but can't do much against adv/proto tanks. Adv FG's are lethal to militia, and efffective against adc (to an extent), and worthless against proto Proto FG's will destroy militia, are good against Adv tanks, and "worthless" against proto (remember this is all on solo abilities as that is what the OP was talking about; being solo'd by AV) If look at is SP wise then for the actual tank vs weapons (assume at moment both tank and player have maxed out core affecting skills). Basic AV= 12-30k Adv- 150-310k Proto - 610-650k Basic Tank= Free Adv Tank = ~360k (plz correct as idk on SP value for HAV lv 1 Poto Tank = ???, maybe around what 1mil SP? The other thing to tank into account is the many variations you can run w/ tanks. With AV, you are VERY limited to what you can do. Then go into the counters: Tanks only counter is AV AV counter is EVERYTHING Other Factors: Tankers knowledge: do you know your tanks abilities, and how to USE your tank properly? If you call it out int he open, yes you are FC*D, and should be. That is bad map awareness and decision making. If running AV, should you run directly toward the tank? NO . Should i watch the map for points that benefit me, and are red dot free? YES As it is, tanks currently are a bit more balanced then they have been in previous builds (i believe). FG's have the advantage at certain time, but so do tanks; it just comes down to the player and teams to bring those situations to light. Have i solo'd tanks; YES, but it wasn't easy, and those tankers weren't smart about how they were using them. I know people like slap26 (and other PFB tanker), they have good fit tanks, and wont be solo'd. Alldin's tank too. If people know how to fit tanks, and use them properly, NO av player will EVER solo that tank. Are there problem w/ AV, like SL super turning, yes; does FG slash to do much damage, possibly; but they aren't killing in 1 hit as much (and if you do get killed in 1 hit, give props to that guy, as it aint easy). Each area has it costs and benefits and proper usage. You just need to know how to use your gear to your advantage
Dante Dragonsguard Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 22	Posted - 2012.12.24 03:25:00 - [37] - Quote +1 to Berserker
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.24 05:19:00 - [38] - Quote Ancient Warden wrote: 1 heavy shouldnt be able to kill 1 tank. I see no problem here. My armor tanks a sitting duck when friendlies wander off and gets blown to pieces by multiple people quickly anyway. Play with organized people and you won't lose your tanks as often. Don't tackle a tank unless you have help. Thanks for supporting my argument with this, but I'm kind of unsure why you tried to make it look like you're arguing with me. You might want to go back and re-read the ENTIRE quote chain instead of just my latest post. I'm not saying HAVs are OP, I'm saying that infantry aren't "more mobile" than HAVs as was claimed in the OP. Shiro Mokuzan wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: HAV movement speed is MUCH higher than the most-buffed dropsuit you can possibly build. After accelerating for around 5 seconds, yeah. And even if this is true for some armour tanks, it certainly isn't true in all cases. I'm focused on shield tanks rather than armour, but I don't have a single HAV fitting that takes more than 2 seconds to break the best possible dropsuit movement speed in the current build. And unlike infantry, HAVs don't have stamina restricting their speed like infantry do, we can just keep going at full speed. Dropsuits have better acceleration and tighter high-speed turning, but HAVs have better straight-line movement and MUCH less restriction with regards to moving while firing. Berserker007 wrote: If look at is SP wise then for the actual tank vs weapons (assume at moment both tank and player have maxed out core affecting skills). Basic AV= 12-30k Adv- 150-310k Proto - 610-650k Basic Tank= Free Adv Tank = ~360k (plz correct as idk on SP value for HAV lv 1 Poto Tank = ???, maybe around what 1mil SP? And this isn't entirely true since Militia Forge Guns were added. You CAN go without AV Grenades (or Flux Grenades if you prefer them) and have a Militia Heavy suit with a Militia FG for no SP investment.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.24 10:42:00 - [39] - Quote Vermaak Kuvakei wrote: Bhor Derri wrote: Most tanks armor plating consists of 3 stages internal , external composite and outer reactive most tanks have an armor thickness of 150 mm meaning an RPG would have a hard time penetrating it thus deal NO damage at all ; keep playing call of duty. Javelin missile system, nuff said Javelins are to RPGs what M-240G machineguns are to BB guns. His statement stands because an RPG wont do much more than seriously ** off a modern main battle tank and smudge the paint. even without the reactive armor. Call of duty and any other game that has RPGs and small arms fire doing significant damage to a tank is ******. then again so was battlefield 2and the ram-an-Abrams with C4 loaded. First, if you ram a tank with a hummvee at full speed you will cause a brief slowdown in the tank as it annihilates the hummer in spectacular fashion. second, c4 is useless on tanks because tank reactive armor is bricks of C4 sandwiched between two metal plates. Enjoy real world weapon technology info. it helps you not sound like a complete tool.
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 41	Posted - 2012.12.24 12:58:00 - [40] - Quote I have only just got back onto Dust after being away but I do feel for the Tankers right now even though I am an AV guy. I commented on this subject before with The Dark Cloud and others in a different thread, if I can find it I will post a link. Unfortunately the Tankers are just going through what nearly all other classes have already gone through, the Nerfhammer experience. It happened to the Heavies just before the Codex build and the Logi's and dropships have had it too in quite spectacular fashion. Most of what I currently see is a lack of tactics on the Tankers part probably left over from when you guys used a Missle/shield tank combo to obliterate everything be it long range or short range and you could roll around the map vaguely aiming at red dots and blasting them away. Now since the missile nerf I don't really know what damage either a railgun or a blaster does but a railgun still kills me in 1 hit even on my good load out and about 2/3 splash hits, blasters shred me I duno about number of hits as I will only approach such a Tank from a blindspot. Now if my FG does more damage per hit than a large railgun turret then that needs looking at because I would think a railgun tank should be a tank hunter. But remember the turret guns are far more accurate than the forge gun and as a proper AV forge gunner not wasting slots on shield extenders or armour but on damage modifiers and cpu boosters to run them I am incredibly vulnerable to snipers, shotgun scouts, more than one assault trooper, being run over, guys in turrets, orbital strikes and ridiculous reload times whereas Tanks are vulnerable to AV guys, other tanks, guys in rail turrets and orbital strikes. And even through all this I find a couple of guys running very effective tanks Sir Meode is definitely up there maybe ask him what he loads out his tank with as he took 5 hits from my proto assault FG (I use this fit with a 20% damage boost from modifiers alone let alone the skills I have) and I only just got into his armour before his support troops got me. @ EnglishSnake you really should start tanking again I miss our duels I believe you are still 1 up on me since our last encounter. I wish everyone a Merry Christmas. Snag out.

EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.12.24 13:09:00 - [41] - Quote These days i dont bother unless i really feel like it or want to test it out, ive gone AV since i have 100 advanced forge guns to use and tbh 2 Sagaris down and a gunlogi and i lost maybe 5 suits if tht easy street so far tbh and i have advanced swarms aswell which i can skill up for espc for armor tanks, nothing like locking on through cover then jumping and firing while your missiles bend around cover and hit ftw indeed I find its easy to scare any tank with my AV fit even if they do have infantry around because once its up at ther spawn or redline it cant come down or wont come back down Plus im using my salvage and saving ISK tbh
Stongtea The First Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 3	Posted - 2012.12.26 18:58:00 - [42] - Quote SO i've just jumped back in after getting a new PS3 after the old on YLOD'd, not played since september. I've put all my SP into HAV's and i'm currently packing a Gunlogi w militia mods. As such, I can't talk much about balance at the upper end of the spectrum, but at the bottom end I think swarm launchers are ok, it takes ~5 hits before death so can't complain there, but forge guns just decimate. Don't know whether i've just hit some pimped randoms in Pubs, but I can take 2 hits tops.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.26 19:02:00 - [43] - Quote ive got a good one, lets not ever play vehicles... their one hundred percent useless in dust even with a protofit since CCP nerfd'd the 12k regular polycrystaline plate fits with a standard tank, now you need the protofit to get 12k and its gone in seconds specially how CCP refuses to fix the swarm paths and the ability to lock on in through cover. theres no point in playing them unless you literally have money to burn.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.12.26 19:05:00 - [44] - Quote I was in a pub game and the enemy dropped 6 tanks. Yes! 6 tanks in a pub game. Not one got destroyed because very few got out AV. Any more buffs to tabks and you will see everyone running in tanks. Leave AV alone. They are just fine.
Stongtea The First Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 3	Posted - 2012.12.26 19:24:00 - [45] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: I was in a pub game and the enemy dropped 6 tanks. Yes! 6 tanks in a pub game. Not one got destroyed because very few got out AV. Any more buffs to tabks and you will see everyone running in tanks. Leave AV alone. They are just fine. Thats some weird ass pub game you got there, get your forge out and batter em.....
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.12.26 19:30:00 - [46] - Quote Stongtea The First wrote: Thats some weird ass pub game you got there, get your forge out and batter em..... Huh? In which world does a forge gun go against 6 tanks? I went 0-2 in that game and I was number 3 on the boards. Troll much son?
Gyrnius ZionTCD Legacy Rising 65	Posted - 2012.12.26 21:59:00 - [47] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: I hate em, they do almost the same damage as a large rail gun and are more mobile then a tank. I have a 1.1 million gunlogi and if i get 1 guy from far away with a forge gun i am literately screwed because that one guy can run and hide in cover where i am stuck out in the open with my lumbering pile of expensive parts. 4 shots to knock down 8680 shields no where to run because that 1 guy can move around easer then the tank can ether buff the tank or nerf the forge gun by about 400 direct damage in one battle i lost 2.1 mil in tanks and other armoured vehicles to forge guns and swarms. it's hardly worth dumping money into a decent tank because the odds of getting halfway through the battle with it is slim and nill. Rofl "...more mobile than a tank" you drive more than 5x as fast as I can run and can do it forever, whereas I'm limited by stamina. As a dedicated forge gunner, I can tell you that EVEN with a maxed out forge gun (prof 5) 2 damage mods and a prototype gun, landing 4 shots to even begin to kill your tank is very difficult. I still have to reload and take another shot to have a chance at the kill. Most forge gunners are not this dedicated, so if you REALLY take it in the shorts from one he really had to put a LOT into it. Your tank is 1.1m? How many do you lose in 5 games? My prototype forge gun fit costs me @ 350k per fit and I'll lose 4 or 5 in that time. This is working as intended.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.12.27 03:20:00 - [48] - Quote IMHO, the game really needs vehicles suited for killing tanks, not superpowered AV infantry weapons.. and I say this as an AV guy since E3 build.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2012.12.27 03:34:00 - [49] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Stongtea The First wrote: Thats some weird ass pub game you got there, get your forge out and batter em..... Huh? In which world does a forge gun go against 6 tanks? I went 0-2 in that game and I was number 3 on the boards. Troll much son? My highest kill count with a forge gun in a single battle is three LAVs, 2 tanks and three turrets. But I don't look for infantry on certain maps. I wait for the maps where vehicles are optimal and go hunting. I ignore infantry entirely unless they are too close, and just hunt vehicles and leave the buttheads in boots to my buddies. And no that count is not without dying. I died a LOT doing that. it was hilarious. Not caring about K/D ratio means you have more time to focus on objectives, and I'm a very objective-oriented person.


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