DUST Search - large missile turrets are game breaking OP

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Zekain Kade wrote:

Here's why.

A Large blaster turret has short range, is meant to deal with infantry, or light vehicles.

A rail gun is for long range, but it does have it's own range cap. it is meant to take out heavy armor, but can't deal enough damage towards shield tanks to be very effective. it has a low rate of fire, and is very ineffective against infantry.

The large missile turret has infinite range, has a massive splash damage radius. It can deal massive damage to dominate both armor, and shield tanks, it can vaporize infantry, it's rate of fire is stupidly high. It can also act like a massive, long range shot gun from any range. it is also the ideal weapon for AA. Which probably means it'll even be able to out do the auto cannon once it's released.

large missile turrets are supposed to be the type of weapon that can do anything, but cannot excel at any of the specialized jobs the other turrets are built for, yet the large missile turret can do everything, and excel far beyond the jobs of any other turret type.

Why...? why is it like this? it's so stupid. there is no reason to spec into any other turret type.

if this was a game of rock, paper, scissors. The large missile turret would be the laser sword.

Right now the large missile turret is like the replication SL on steroids.

My Madrugar was using a Cycled Blaster with a 10% damage boost and a pair of Cycle Missile turrets with a 20% damage boost, had roughly 6500 ehp with a Heavy IG-L repper, and I took it up against a Gunnlogi with all Accelerated Missile turrets. I died in 3 seconds. I think that's a little imbalanced.

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:14:00 - [1] - Quote Here's why. A Large blaster turret has short range, is meant to deal with infantry, or light vehicles. A rail gun is for long range, but it does have it's own range cap. it is meant to take out heavy armor, but can't deal enough damage towards shield tanks to be very effective. it has a low rate of fire, and is very ineffective against infantry. The large missile turret has infinite range, has a massive splash damage radius. It can deal massive damage to dominate both armor, and shield tanks, it can vaporize infantry, it's rate of fire is stupidly high. It can also act like a massive, long range shot gun from any range. it is also the ideal weapon for AA. Which probably means it'll even be able to out do the auto cannon once it's released. large missile turrets are supposed to be the type of weapon that can do anything, but cannot excel at any of the specialized jobs the other turrets are built for, yet the large missile turret can do everything, and excel far beyond the jobs of any other turret type. Why...? why is it like this? it's so stupid. there is no reason to spec into any other turret type. if this was a game of rock, paper, scissors. The large missile turret would be the laser sword. Right now the large missile turret is like the replication SL on steroids.
Xavier Hastings ZionTCD Legacy Rising 243	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:16:00 - [2] - Quote Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed Let's get ready for another thirty page discussion.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:17:00 - [3] - Quote I've said the same thing before. Missile launchers need to decide if they are supposed to be anti-infantry or anti-vehicle, if it was meant to be a middle-ground between the both, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as blasters, and half as much damage to vehicles as railguns, plus needs a smaller blast radius.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:18:00 - [4] - Quote Large missiles 1 shot installations. Small missiles 1 shot heavies. CCP are rubbish at balancing.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:19:00 - [5] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I've said the same thing before. Missile launchers need to decide if they are supposed to be anti-infantry or anti-vehicle, if it was meant to be a middle-ground between the both, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as blasters, and half as much damage to vehicles as railguns, plus needs a smaller blast radius. And their range needs to be limited. being able to out range a rail gun is stupid. rail guns are supposed to be armor snipers.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:40:00 - [6] - Quote Let me spell this out... Basic Large Missile -(x4) 390 direct damage 120 splash Basic Small missile - 350 direct 200 splash Turret operations 10% damage Missile turret operations 15% damage Missile proficiency 10% 220% damage amplifiers. So that's 75% more damage. Dropships, LAVs and cheap tanks. Oh and if it's hitting armour it gets a 30% bonus. Then there's the 20% marauder skill. They made NO change to the basic damage from the last build. They didn't make anything tougher. Codex is a load of ***, and I'm just sick of obviously imbalance things being added. You'll notice no-one runs armour tanks. Because a decent missile shield tank can pop them in 2-3 shots. While they're repping.
ThreeXB ZionTCD Legacy Rising 7	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:51:00 - [7] - Quote Large turret blasters range needs to be increased slightly
YoUnGcUz Imperfects Negative-Feedback 67	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:51:00 - [8] - Quote Do not forget the damage mod with 20% damage for the turrets
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:56:00 - [9] - Quote YoUnGcUz wrote: Do not forget the damage mod with 20% damage for the turrets 2*20%damage amplifiers were included. Because you can fit all this to a Sica. Except the marauder skill. I cba to post in feedback. They removed the 50% base marauder damage mod for precursor. No-one said my tank doesn't kill enough. CCP don't listen, they don't remember, and they don't care.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:04:00 - [10] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: large missile turrets are supposed to be the type of weapon that can do anything, but cannot excel at any of the specialized jobs the other turrets are built for, yet the large missile turret can do everything, and excel far beyond the jobs of any other turret type. Same with small missile turrets. They at least need to drop with range and eventually go into the ground.

Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:04:00 - [11] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Let me spell this out... Basic Large Missile -(x4) 390 direct damage 120 splash Basic Small missile - 350 direct 200 splash Turret operations 10% damage Missile turret operations 15% damage Missile proficiency 10% 220% damage amplifiers. So that's 75% more damage. Dropships, LAVs and cheap tanks. Oh and if it's hitting armour it gets a 30% bonus. Then there's the 20% marauder skill. They made NO change to the basic damage from the last build. They didn't make anything tougher. Codex is a load of ***, and I'm just sick of obviously imbalance things being added. You'll notice no-one runs armour tanks. Because a decent missile shield tank can pop them in 2-3 shots. While they're repping. :( i run armor tanks been runnin them for 2 builds now...........blaster fit as well....i feel unloved by CCP :( and yea fully agree with u with missiles its too good at everything atm
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:07:00 - [12] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I've said the same thing before. Missile launchers need to decide if they are supposed to be anti-infantry or anti-vehicle, if it was meant to be a middle-ground between the both, it needs to do half as much damage to infantry as blasters, and half as much damage to vehicles as railguns, plus needs a smaller blast radius. And their range needs to be limited. being able to out range a rail gun is stupid. rail guns are supposed to be armor snipers. Not only do they need less range than railguns, but railguns (at least small ones) need way more range.
Angrim Khan Bragian Order Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:37:00 - [13] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Here's why. A Large blaster turret has short range, is meant to deal with infantry, or light vehicles. A rail gun is for long range, but it does have it's own range cap. it is meant to take out heavy armor, but can't deal enough damage towards shield tanks to be very effective. it has a low rate of fire, and is very ineffective against infantry. The large missile turret has infinite range, has a massive splash damage radius. It can deal massive damage to dominate both armor, and shield tanks, it can vaporize infantry, it's rate of fire is stupidly high. It can also act like a massive, long range shot gun from any range. it is also the ideal weapon for AA. Which probably means it'll even be able to out do the auto cannon once it's released. large missile turrets are supposed to be the type of weapon that can do anything, but cannot excel at any of the specialized jobs the other turrets are built for, yet the large missile turret can do everything, and excel far beyond the jobs of any other turret type. Why...? why is it like this? it's so stupid. there is no reason to spec into any other turret type. if this was a game of rock, paper, scissors. The large missile turret would be the laser sword. Right now the large missile turret is like the replication SL on steroids. Same problem that CCP have with EVE. They can't help themselves. Shields and Missiles are where its all at for about 60% of applications. No point in using anything else most of the time.
xeto rak Epidemic. Space Immigration 23	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:38:00 - [14] - Quote Yo, in RL missiles are the most powerful weapon: very long rage, massive explosion and blow up everything... I say CCP got it right. It's there,it's up to you to use it instead of complaining. Or.. wait a sec... you don't have the skill?
Sephirian Fair ZionTCD Legacy Rising 48	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:44:00 - [15] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Let me spell this out... Basic Large Missile -(x4) 390 direct damage 120 splash Basic Small missile - 350 direct 200 splash Turret operations 10% damage Missile turret operations 15% damage Missile proficiency 10% 220% damage amplifiers. So that's 75% more damage. Dropships, LAVs and cheap tanks. Oh and if it's hitting armour it gets a 30% bonus. Then there's the 20% marauder skill. They made NO change to the basic damage from the last build. They didn't make anything tougher. Codex is a load of ***, and I'm just sick of obviously imbalance things being added. You'll notice no-one runs armour tanks. Because a decent missile shield tank can pop them in 2-3 shots. While they're repping. Agreed 100%. The problem with Vehicles isn't because they are overpowered or anything, but because the Turrets do too much god damn damage. And Vehicle balancing will remain this flip-flop of OP to useless unless CCP realizes that you cannot have Turrets able to one-shot infantry. Last build, Tanks weren't OP because they were unkillable, they were OP because they were unkillable and they were able to one-shot everyone. Everyone used Large Railguns and Small Missile Turrets because the splash range and damage was absurd. This build, everyone is hating Dropships and Tanks purely for the fact that a Prototype SMT can one-shot a heavy with a Direct hit. Railguns aren't used because the turn speeds are insanely slow and the splash range was minimized, Blasters are midly used because they were finally fixed, but Missiles are far and away the primary turret used. Vehicles won't be balanced until CCP makes a decision. Make all vehicles paper thin destroyable ala Battlefield 3 with the ability to instant kill everything, or make Vehicles be incredibly tough to destory similar to previous build, while slashing all Turret damage by over half. My personal hope is for the latter one. Turrets are the problem. Not the Vehicles. And this QQ and these poor states of balance are going to continue until there are adjustments.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:50:00 - [16] - Quote Xeto rak, you're a ***** ****.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.10.28 21:57:00 - [17] - Quote I used to run a blaster Surya in E3 build and precursor. Then switched to shield tanks and missiles because the shields have hardeners, which I have been asking for since E3 build for armor, and because the missiles can smash through just about anything.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.28 23:10:00 - [18] - Quote xeto rak wrote: Yo, in RL missiles are the most powerful weapon: very long rage, massive explosion and blow up everything... I say CCP got it right. It's there,it's up to you to use it instead of complaining. Or.. wait a sec... you don't have the skill? We've found either the biggest troll or the person with the worst aim because we all know using missile launchers is beyond easy
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.29 00:01:00 - [19] - Quote xeto rak wrote: Yo, in RL missiles are the most powerful weapon: very long rage, massive explosion and blow up everything... I say CCP got it right. It's there,it's up to you to use it instead of complaining. Or.. wait a sec... you don't have the skill? you are all kinds of stupid. it doesn't take skill to point a large rocket launcher in one general direction, and then just burn it to hell with missiles.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.29 00:59:00 - [20] - Quote xeto rak wrote: Yo, in RL missiles are the most powerful weapon: very long rage, massive explosion and blow up everything... I say CCP got it right. It's there,it's up to you to use it instead of complaining. Or.. wait a sec... you don't have the skill? Congratulations: when laser turrets and more aircraft are implemented, (also when we can choose where we go), you're the first person I bothered to put onto my list of idiots to target in my spare time

Tien TheSecond Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 198	Posted - 2012.10.29 02:36:00 - [21] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Let me spell this out... Basic Large Missile -(x4) 390 direct damage 120 splash Basic Small missile - 350 direct 200 splash Turret operations 10% damage Missile turret operations 15% damage Missile proficiency 10% 220% damage amplifiers. So that's 75% more damage. Dropships, LAVs and cheap tanks. Oh and if it's hitting armour it gets a 30% bonus. Then there's the 20% marauder skill. They made NO change to the basic damage from the last build. They didn't make anything tougher. Codex is a load of ***, and I'm just sick of obviously imbalance things being added. You'll notice no-one runs armour tanks. Because a decent missile shield tank can pop them in 2-3 shots. While they're repping. 2 20% items does not = 40%, stacking penalties apply. Still, pretty damn high on the damage bonus
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.10.29 02:40:00 - [22] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Here's why. A Large blaster turret has short range, is meant to deal with infantry, or light vehicles. A rail gun is for long range, but it does have it's own range cap. it is meant to take out heavy armor, but can't deal enough damage towards shield tanks to be very effective. it has a low rate of fire, and is very ineffective against infantry. The large missile turret has infinite range, has a massive splash damage radius. It can deal massive damage to dominate both armor, and shield tanks, it can vaporize infantry, it's rate of fire is stupidly high. It can also act like a massive, long range shot gun from any range. it is also the ideal weapon for AA. Which probably means it'll even be able to out do the auto cannon once it's released. large missile turrets are supposed to be the type of weapon that can do anything, but cannot excel at any of the specialized jobs the other turrets are built for, yet the large missile turret can do everything, and excel far beyond the jobs of any other turret type. Why...? why is it like this? it's so stupid. there is no reason to spec into any other turret type. if this was a game of rock, paper, scissors. The large missile turret would be the laser sword. Right now the large missile turret is like the replication SL on steroids. My Madrugar was using a Cycled Blaster with a 10% damage boost and a pair of Cycle Missile turrets with a 20% damage boost, had roughly 6500 ehp with a Heavy IG-L repper, and I took it up against a Gunnlogi with all Accelerated Missile turrets. I died in 3 seconds. I think that's a little imbalanced.
BobThe843CakeMan BurgezzE.T.F 132	Posted - 2012.10.29 02:45:00 - [23] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: Here's why. A Large blaster turret has short range, is meant to deal with infantry, or light vehicles. A rail gun is for long range, but it does have it's own range cap. it is meant to take out heavy armor, but can't deal enough damage towards shield tanks to be very effective. it has a low rate of fire, and is very ineffective against infantry. The large missile turret has infinite range, has a massive splash damage radius. It can deal massive damage to dominate both armor, and shield tanks, it can vaporize infantry, it's rate of fire is stupidly high. It can also act like a massive, long range shot gun from any range. it is also the ideal weapon for AA. Which probably means it'll even be able to out do the auto cannon once it's released. large missile turrets are supposed to be the type of weapon that can do anything, but cannot excel at any of the specialized jobs the other turrets are built for, yet the large missile turret can do everything, and excel far beyond the jobs of any other turret type. Why...? why is it like this? it's so stupid. there is no reason to spec into any other turret type. if this was a game of rock, paper, scissors. The large missile turret would be the laser sword. Right now the large missile turret is like the replication SL on steroids. My Madrugar was using a Cycled Blaster with a 10% damage boost and a pair of Cycle Missile turrets with a 20% damage boost, had roughly 6500 ehp with a Heavy IG-L repper, and I took it up against a Gunnlogi with all Accelerated Missile turrets. I died in 3 seconds. I think that's a little imbalanced. 6,500 armor on a armor tank..... Although my tank would have lost too. think about it. 6,500 thts not much at all. mine has 10,000 armor. With 2 small reps. But point being he could have just had a good gunnlogi. They can go up to 6,000 shield plus. Meaning you'd get pwned. Which you did. Lol.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.29 02:57:00 - [24] - Quote You could have 12000 armour and get killed in 3 shots. Just to make a point about the damage (yeah, explosives do 30% more vs armour). That's like 6 seconds or so.
BobThe843CakeMan BurgezzE.T.F 132	Posted - 2012.10.29 03:00:00 - [25] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: You could have 12000 armour and get killed in 3 shots. Just to make a point about the damage (yeah, explosives do 30% more vs armour). That's like 6 seconds or so. i know right. armor tanks get no love but they make no good tank weapons for shields. when they do thou. I WILL BE SHIELD TANK HUNTING.
Tectonious Falcon The Southern Legion 395	Posted - 2012.10.29 04:05:00 - [26] - Quote Missile launchers, with the right skills and the right fitting, can do over 4000 direct damage and over 1000 splash damage. Seems a bit to powerful to me :/
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.29 13:18:00 - [27] - Quote TBH railguns that i know of dont have a range limit, when i did use them before i was able to shoot down bolas in 2hits maybe 1 i cant remember and plus they are alot stronger than missiles and are pretty much instant, you dont have to wait or calculate the missile flight time by the time it reaches its target. Its like the forge gun you can snipe with it and remove installations in seconds and all the turret ones in 1/2hits its just crap against MI Now blasters are defo ther to be up in ya face, they can shread a shield tank to pieces and MI aswell prob is its on a armor tank which is currently 2nd best tank to use even tho you can have more tank on it but MI use SL quite a bit and all shield tanks use missiles Tony Calif wrote: Let me spell this out... Basic Large Missile -(x4) 390 direct damage 120 splash Basic Small missile - 350 direct 200 splash Turret operations 10% damage Missile turret operations 15% damage Missile proficiency 10% 220% damage amplifiers. So that's 75% more damage. Dropships, LAVs and cheap tanks. Oh and if it's hitting armour it gets a 30% bonus. Then there's the 20% marauder skill. They made NO change to the basic damage from the last build. They didn't make anything tougher. Codex is a load of ***, and I'm just sick of obviously imbalance things being added. You'll notice no-one runs armour tanks. Because a decent missile shield tank can pop them in 2-3 shots. While they're repping. While this maybe true you have totally forgot to mention how many SP it would take to level up all of it, the maurader book alone is 5mil cost and a 12x skill and can only be used on top tanks which require about 1mil in SP, missle prof is a 5x skill and the 20% extra damage mods have stacking penalties so you would prob get 35-37% i think and also they take up low slots but also is the 20% mods both for small or large turrets or one each? because its a mod what will you leave off the tank to fit it because its gank or tank Also considering the cap and all the support skills you really need to make the tank to be able to withstand all the current AV out ther which can take out a 750k tank with a 20k AV fit you will need a good few weeks to level up to HAV3 and all the turret skills or you can do that 1st and forget all your support skills but dont expect it to last out ther In the same timeframe you can quickly level up forge guns and get the breach with its 6.5 sec charge up time and 2000DPS and catch a tank cold by hiding behind a small hill where missile splash will not hit you once and snipe it from the other side of the map Its a 1 sided example tony
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:15:00 - [28] - Quote It's the exact same way for small turrets too.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Doomheim 83	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:54:00 - [29] - Quote EnglishSnake@ I think you overestimating forge gun capabilities. Firstly it's not push-the-trigger hit-the-target weapon. It takes some time to hit something when you firing from distance, and you have to calculate where target will be in a second(~). You must demonstrate precision, using weapon that is imprecise(there is no zoom-in option, and splash dmg does not matter in killing tank). Standars BFG hit for 2100 per charge that takes 6 sec, if you have 2 dmg mode it's 2730 per 6sec, so 455dps minus penalty from second dmg mode(I include 10% from weaponry). 455dps may sounds good but it doesn't mean much when your target is mobile and can simply run away in that 6sec period of time. And I completely approve OP!
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.10.29 14:55:00 - [30] - Quote dont nerf the turrets. Just reduce the bonus from the skills by 50%. Like you get 1.5% damage boost for small missile operation and only 1% for the proficency. Another thing is the damage mods i would say instead of 20% use 15% for the top tiers. So leave the stats of the turrets itself alone. And you forget that just 1 small fragmented XT-1 missile turret costs 80.000 ISK. After all you get something good for alot of ISK. be carefull what you want otherwise we end up again with a breach assault rifle.



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page