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Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tyrius Madison wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:Tyrius Madison wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:A scout with a smg=combat. A scout with a shotgun=combat. Scout with an AR=combat. More fail logic from scouts who go negative and try to justify it with wp and claiming recon. Logi with a shotgun = combat. logi with a mass driver = combat. logi with a AR = combat. wtf is he doing repairing stuff, and using a sissy needle to revive people. hacking? pfffffft who cares. I'll have to keep this in mind when I play my Logi. Logis don't have to go 4/6. I have seen plenty of logis pull 1.0-2.0 kdrs. People make excuses becuase they are bad. If you spend most of your time looking at the respawn screen I dought your precious wp and recon skills are really helping the team that much. in this game, WP seem to matter more than K/D. thats why you get WP for things other than K/D as well. and that is why you can have some "bad player" with a negative K/D among the top of post-game leaderboards from doing support things. However, I understand that people will always be obsessed with K/D and will always believe that it is the only thing that matters in any game. and that's just how it will always be. eh. whatever, we'll have our opinions and they'll always differ. Nothing to do about it. K/D is important, but it isn't the only thing. people need to get used to that I guess. Look at all these boosters. Are WPs winning the games for them. Your whole team can be repairing/healing/capping objectives but if they can't kill anything you will lose. |
LIEUTENANT JORDAN
BetaMax.
7
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Posted - 2012.10.08 23:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Well i wasnt talking about myself because i rarely ever go negative and i have always used assault. I have never used scout dropsuits. My point is use it whatever way works best for you but strafing is obsolete. So dont whine about it being useless find a way to make useful and effective. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
@crimson
You're right, 4/6 doesn't win battle. Neither does 20/0 if the team you are in doesn't win a match as I saw on several occasions. In one match, my team had the worse k/d ratio but won the match even though the opposing team had staggering k/d ratios across the board. |
Tyrius Madison
97
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:K/d Might not be everything but 4/6 is pretty effing awful. That's like a late join where your team is being redlined score. i was going to say something sarcastic and witty here, but whats the point.
I give up on the arguing. I enjoy the game as it is, though realizing that it has issues that need to be corrected. and by issues,
I've never cared about my K/D, always cared more about my WP. perhaps that is a fault of mine for being reckless in matches cause I don't care if I die alot, maybe its not.
if that makes me the worst player in the game, then so be it.
it is what it is, all you super elite players can insult to high heaven. so long as we are all having fun playing, thats all that really matters, right? |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tyrius Madison wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Youare right. Scout is combat regardless. But it is mostly indirect combat such as recon, hacking (though logi is specialized for that), relaying orders, etc. There is very few direct combat it does well. The only best case I see is a hit and with either a smg or the nova knife (which I am specialized in). The ninja knife scout can probably only kill a lone wolf lost in a complex at best while being a pest to the others. this is what people have been saying, but alas, it always falls on deaf ears. yes, Scout is combat, but it is a different style of combat from a suit like Assault. its not a in-your-face run-and-gun style of combat. and yes, it is partially support.
It's a broken because the strafe was dialed down to sub-snail "please someone shoot me in the face" speed style of combat.
The scout isn't useless, not for the other team. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:just ran a milita scout and earned 1147 WP 4/6 K/D ratio
mass driver, sub, injector, dampener. was the only models i used and i racked up WP so no you people complaining just need to adapt. i did this with mimimum skills in that stuff bare bones level one and two. Probably could have done better in an assault suit tbh |
Tyrius Madison
97
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:Tyrius Madison wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Youare right. Scout is combat regardless. But it is mostly indirect combat such as recon, hacking (though logi is specialized for that), relaying orders, etc. There is very few direct combat it does well. The only best case I see is a hit and with either a smg or the nova knife (which I am specialized in). The ninja knife scout can probably only kill a lone wolf lost in a complex at best while being a pest to the others. this is what people have been saying, but alas, it always falls on deaf ears. yes, Scout is combat, but it is a different style of combat from a suit like Assault. its not a in-your-face run-and-gun style of combat. and yes, it is partially support. It's a broken because the strafe was dialed down to sub-snail "please someone shoot me in the face" speed style of combat. The scout isn't useless, not for the other team.
last comment.
I disagree with your hyperbole. It doesn't really feel slow to me. maybe it is because I played Logi last build exclusively, and did not play the Scout till this build.
ether way, I hope they raise the strafe speed to the ceiling in the next build. I hope they raise it so much that nobody bothers to use anything but the Scout Suit. I'm tired or seeing the arguing and bickering over it. I hope CCP does whatever it needs to to make you guys specifically, personally satisfied.
and with that said. you guys win. I'm going to start subscribing to the K/D is Everything, nothing else matters mentality.
huzzah. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:@crimson
You're right, 4/6 doesn't win battle. Neither does 20/0 if the team you are in doesn't win a match as I saw on several occasions. In one match, my team had the worse k/d ratio but won the match even though the opposing team had staggering k/d ratios across the board. The other team was flying around in dropships stat padding while your team caped objectives. Your team didn't win becuase they were repairing/healing better. The team you were playing were just a bunch of dropship tryhards. There are certain varialbles when it comes to dropship and tryhards that devalue KDR, but for the most part when your infantry is good at killing then the objectives will get capped. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tyrius Madison wrote:WP > k/d.
ROFL.
Maybe if they figured out how to remove boosting...maybe
You can be complete garbage and get tons of WP, you at least have to be awake and moving the joystick to get a descent K/D |
Ignatius Crumwald
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 23:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tyrius Madison wrote:Ignatius Crumwald wrote:Tyrius Madison wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Youare right. Scout is combat regardless. But it is mostly indirect combat such as recon, hacking (though logi is specialized for that), relaying orders, etc. There is very few direct combat it does well. The only best case I see is a hit and with either a smg or the nova knife (which I am specialized in). The ninja knife scout can probably only kill a lone wolf lost in a complex at best while being a pest to the others. this is what people have been saying, but alas, it always falls on deaf ears. yes, Scout is combat, but it is a different style of combat from a suit like Assault. its not a in-your-face run-and-gun style of combat. and yes, it is partially support. It's a broken because the strafe was dialed down to sub-snail "please someone shoot me in the face" speed style of combat. The scout isn't useless, not for the other team. last comment. I disagree with your hyperbole. It doesn't really feel slow to me. maybe it is because I played Logi last build exclusively, and did not play the Scout till this build. ether way, I hope they raise the strafe speed to the ceiling in the next build. I hope they raise it so much that nobody bothers to use anything but the Scout Suit. I'm tired or seeing the arguing and bickering over it. I hope CCP does whatever it needs to to make you guys specifically, personally satisfied. and with that said. you guys win. I'm going to start subscribing to the K/D is Everything, nothing else matters mentality. huzzah.
I now regret introducing this forum to the word "hyperbole". |
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Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 00:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
I want to reiterate this, "What can a scout suit do that an assault suit can't do just as well?"
Scout suits are barely faster and assaults have a little more of a signature over scouts.
I'm waiting to see if CCP adds anything next build to make scouts actually worth getting, but as for this build they are useless. The small boosts in stats is dwarfed by the assaults hp.
No QQ its just how it is, if you want to adapt switch to assault. |
Skryd Mewgun
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 00:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think the point that scouts are trying to make is, what can a scout do better than a kittenault, heavy, or logi? The answer is hide. I don't think this is what ccp intended when they made the classes. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 00:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Skryd Mewgun wrote:I think the point that scouts are trying to make is, what can a scout do better than a kittenault, heavy, or logi? The answer is hide. I don't think this is what ccp intended when they made the classes. Even then, in this build it is easy enough to see someone's dark silhouette no matter were they try to hide. |
GOLD LEAD3R
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.10.09 00:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:just ran a milita scout and earned 1147 WP 4/6 K/D ratio
mass driver, sub, injector, dampener. was the only models i used and i racked up WP so no you people complaining just need to adapt. i did this with mimimum skills in that stuff bare bones level one and two.
Really? You're going to create a thread about how scout suits are not worthless, and your evidence is 1 match? Not trying to be disrespectful, but that's a pretty awful argument.
I got 2400 sp in my militia logi build last night. Does that mean I'll always do that?
I understand that you don't want scouts to compete on the battlefield, but I think your evidence needs to be a lot stronger if you're going to change any minds. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Will max at those skill related to my "concept scout" tomorrow spent to much time just redirecting SP to prove a point. Then I should have more concrete data.
My issue is simple I dont want the scout to be unstoppable agian. I also dont want people to keep think the scout is supposed to be the speed attacker while the assault is the sturdy attacker the assault is what ever its fit allows it to be, the scout is a recon support suit though not a super ninja, assault is for most combat sitiation the scout should be able to engage when needed but should be focusing on recon roles not combat roles which is where everyone is heading with it. They want a speedy combatant because thats what they are used to in other FPS they are not use to the actual role of scout.
I support minor buff to increase the margin of speed and agility as well new modules to increase its uses but I do not think it should be a speedy killer.
Oh and I ran a smg, assault amd shotgun scout so far this is just the first fit that succeded in surviving direct combat. I kinda suck with scouts so I stick by this if I can do it so can you, but better. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
I find scouts to be the same as last build but not as much of a threat (in both playing as and using it) |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Oh and I kinda hoped someone else would test out some new fits for a scout and back be up. Have any of you tried to run the scout with out worrying about Kdr? |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
326
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:Tyrius Madison wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:LIEUTENANT JORDAN wrote:Yeah players just need to adapt and change the way they use the scout. They cannot be used as assaults anymore. He is telling people to adapt or die but he died more then he adapted. Fail logic. It reminds of that scrub with the name adaptandkill, he would always go negative. well I never said that Scouts weren't at a noticeable disadvantage. I was just saying that WP(however you get them, whether by killing a lot, or supporting) is more important than K/D. IMO. If you are running around with a class that is made for killing playing as support then you are doing it wrong. Especially if you are going negative. I don't care how much wp you have. Playing with the scout as support to try and claim it isn't useless is idiotic at the very least.
Sp and isk are based on Wp. So wp > k/d. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:Oh and I kinda hoped someone else would test out some new fits for a scout and back be up. Have any of you tried to run the scout with out worrying about Kdr? Yes and I still say assault is more useful |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:Oh and I kinda hoped someone else would test out some new fits for a scout and back be up. Have any of you tried to run the scout with out worrying about Kdr?
A full militia scout with a profile dampener, shield extender, (idk) hacked drop uplink, toxin smg, dragonfly suit
I'm doing about the same as last build except slightly more deaths |
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Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:just ran a milita scout and earned 1147 WP 4/6 K/D ratio
mass driver, sub, injector, dampener. was the only models i used and i racked up WP so no you people complaining just need to adapt. i did this with mimimum skills in that stuff bare bones level one and two. oh hey, did you know you can do the same thing with an assult suit with better results?
more CPU/PG, more armor/shield the same strafe.
yeah, you are totally right that the scout suit has a home. |
Tyrus Madison
26
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 03:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:I want to reiterate this, "What can a scout suit do that an assault suit can't do just as well?"
Nothing.
Quote:Scout suits are barely faster and assaults have a little more of a signature over scouts.
I'm waiting to see if CCP adds anything next build to make scouts actually worth getting, but as for this build they are useless. The small boosts in stats is dwarfed by the assaults hp.
No QQ its just how it is, ]if you want to adapt switch to assault.
thats what I did. and now I see that I was wrong.
there is no current reason to use the scout suit over the assault one. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Avenger 245 wrote:just ran a milita scout and earned 1147 WP 4/6 K/D ratio
mass driver, sub, injector, dampener. was the only models i used and i racked up WP so no you people complaining just need to adapt. i did this with mimimum skills in that stuff bare bones level one and two. oh hey, did you know you can do the same thing with an assult suit with better results? more CPU/PG, more armor/shield the same strafe. yeah, you are totally right that the scout suit has a home.
Its cheaper I think, it woud take 2 dampeners to get the same affect while the scout can do it with one all the mods in the world wont change the fact I can walk faster than you, I pretty sure I have more stamina, oh and at medium range that smaller hit box and speed saved me from death.
CCP still needs to increase the mobility and agility of the suit, increase the speed margin, and make more scout related mods.
A crossbow with 100s damage and average reload as a side arm paired with the scouts (should be) faster reload and the skill should get some impressive results |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tyrus Madison wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:I want to reiterate this, "What can a scout suit do that an assault suit can't do just as well?" Nothing. Quote:Scout suits are barely faster and assaults have a little more of a signature over scouts.
I'm waiting to see if CCP adds anything next build to make scouts actually worth getting, but as for this build they are useless. The small boosts in stats is dwarfed by the assaults hp.
No QQ its just how it is, ]if you want to adapt switch to assault. thats what I did. and now I see that I was wrong. there is no current reason to use the scout suit over the assault one.
It can do it cheaper for the same effect
|
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:Necrodermis wrote:Avenger 245 wrote:just ran a milita scout and earned 1147 WP 4/6 K/D ratio
mass driver, sub, injector, dampener. was the only models i used and i racked up WP so no you people complaining just need to adapt. i did this with mimimum skills in that stuff bare bones level one and two. oh hey, did you know you can do the same thing with an assult suit with better results? more CPU/PG, more armor/shield the same strafe. yeah, you are totally right that the scout suit has a home. Its cheaper I think, it woud take 2 dampeners to get the same affect while the scout can do it with one all the mods in the world wont change the fact I can walk faster than you, I pretty sure I have more stamina, oh and at medium range that smaller hit box and speed saved me from death. CCP still needs to increase the mobility and agility of the suit, increase the speed margin, and make more scout related mods. A crossbow with 100s damage and average reload as a side arm paired with the scouts (should be) faster reload and the skill should get some impressive results Alot of it is due to the ability to fit more on the assault. In my opinion and experience, you gain more profit from survivability then simply being cheaper, and absolutely no crossbows, this has already been debated. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Frequently make 2500+ WP with my scout suit.
As a Squad Leader. |
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