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"The Gunplay is terrible" connundrum.

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Entropy Virus HiveMind Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 64	Posted - 2012.10.06 12:35:00 - [1] - Quote What was the standard for amount of health before Rainbow 6? What was the accepted norm for jumping before Halo? What did you think of games before COD? How fast was a "good speed" before Unreal Tournament? All four of these games.... if you played the betas of them, and compared them to the other 3.... what would your opinions be of them? Dust is going to add a new question to this equation. Dust is a new game: Learn it, love it, and get good at it. While your focusing on strafe speed, or how a tank can POSSIBLY be better than a single guy, your not looking at the big picture: That Dust is going to make you change the way you think about a shooter. That its not all about you in the moment, its about the WHOLE BATTLEFIELD. The aim down sights? Really? Your defending an installation that YOU created with your OWN money and sweat....with 10 other guy's while around you, in UNIQUE roles that play completely different, while a guy flying a MCC gigantic command center shooting rockets all over the place at another flying behemoth, is calling out orders and managing where to send reinforcements, because there is 5-8 other objectives and installations that are important...on a district on a planet in a solar system in a universe that is player driven economy, tanks are being called in, strikes flying over head.... meanwhile your squad leader stopped mid battle and is leaving you hanging, because he got an offer from the other team for twice as much money, and now you gotta tell your commander that your in charge now. He gets on comms and explains what's going on and then everyone on your team stops caring about how they are losing money calling in their expensive ****, its now all about the revenge. You get sniped and your AR can't reach and then you die, so you remember next time that maybe your 10 man group should include at least 1 counter sniper. This is not about how you feel princesses. This is about the War. And the Money. Do your job. Everything will fall into place and mean more when the game is as it should. And you even had the option of paying ZERO DOLLARS for the privilege of this magnificent experience. People will come and go with this game, but just like EVE, the playerbase will always be there, and as the game evolves, people will still come back again and again as the stories of victory and defeat flood the top 10 gaming moments in history.
Entropy Virus HiveMind Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 64	Posted - 2012.10.06 12:40:00 - [2] - Quote My main point, is that every game brings to it a different reason to play. If your selling point for most people is the run and gun experiance, you now have a shelf life for your game. If your selling point is dynamic, team based battlefields, that balance out ROLES and risk vs reward of heavier equipment.... Then your game will last forever, because when the graphics get dated, and the single player experiance is superior in other games.... you'll keep coming back to this as the benchmark for what a REAL battle is and means.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:30:00 - [3] - Quote Full of win.
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 967	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:34:00 - [4] - Quote Well EV just revealed its more dangerous than I originally thought. That was an excellent post.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:46:00 - [5] - Quote I'm not defending MY installation with MY money if the game isn't enjoyable & unique to play. Last build it was even with the technical issues. This build? Meh. Bf2 BC clone. I see what you're saying, but no. Standard hp in ANYGAME is 100. Doom. Good speed before UT was Doom. Which could be crazy fast. Accepted norm for jumping was strafe jumping. See quake/UT. Did they make games before cod? :P joking Sure, theres a whole battlefield. Heck there's a full galaxy out there. But if I don't like the speed:Heath:damage ratio, I probably won't be that fussed. Like I say, last build was wonderful. Just explaining why us precious princesses are all of a fap about gunplay.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:47:00 - [6] - Quote HiveMind Groks DUST well. And the picture he paints is really only some of the complexities that could be involved in a single battle essentially unconnected to larger-scale interstellar geopolitics. AR Princesses who can't evolve had best stay focused on polishing their ARs, because if they actually step into the real arena of war their grunt brains may not be able to tank the dps. And all of New Eden would hear about it, because we're a single shard universe. Is your epeen ready for that, princesses?
Vehlhiem 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 18	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:52:00 - [7] - Quote I actually rather enjoy the gunplay, but I really hate CoD. Sooo.
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.10.06 14:38:00 - [8] - Quote This game is all about me, because if I'm having fun I will try my best for my team to win, if not I simply wont play. So it is about the way I feel, last build was pretty much what I expected dust to be like with each suit having pros and cons and was fun and challenging to play, this build seem like a second rate Bf 3 conquest game only terribly slow and boring. Eve universe is not enough to make me loyal to this game only fun and enjoyment will do that, and with gameplay that feels as if it's in slow motion I choose not to play (test) and if you get more players that feel this way the game world will soon be empty after the first few months of eager players soon get bored
Call ME CANDY 14	Posted - 2012.10.06 14:43:00 - [9] - Quote Entropy Virus HiveMind wrote: What was the standard for amount of health before Rainbow 6? What was the accepted norm for jumping before Halo? What did you think of games before COD? How fast was a "good speed" before Unreal Tournament? All four of these games.... if you played the betas of them, and compared them to the other 3.... what would your opinions be of them? Dust is going to add a new question to this equation. Dust is a new game: Learn it, love it, and get good at it. While your focusing on strafe speed, or how a tank can POSSIBLY be better than a single guy, your not looking at the big picture: That Dust is going to make you change the way you think about a shooter. That its not all about you in the moment, its about the WHOLE BATTLEFIELD. The aim down sights? Really? Your defending an installation that YOU created with your OWN money and sweat....with 10 other guy's while around you, in UNIQUE roles that play completely different, while a guy flying a MCC gigantic command center shooting rockets all over the place at another flying behemoth, is calling out orders and managing where to send reinforcements, because there is 5-8 other objectives and installations that are important...on a district on a planet in a solar system in a universe that is player driven economy, tanks are being called in, strikes flying over head.... meanwhile your squad leader stopped mid battle and is leaving you hanging, because he got an offer from the other team for twice as much money, and now you gotta tell your commander that your in charge now. He gets on comms and explains what's going on and then everyone on your team stops caring about how they are losing money calling in their expensive ****, its now all about the revenge. You get sniped and your AR can't reach and then you die, so you remember next time that maybe your 10 man group should include at least 1 counter sniper. This is not about how you feel princesses. This is about the War. And the Money. Do your job. Everything will fall into place and mean more when the game is as it should. And you even had the option of paying ZERO DOLLARS for the privilege of this magnificent experience. People will come and go with this game, but just like EVE, the playerbase will always be there, and as the game evolves, people will still come back again and again as the stories of victory and defeat flood the top 10 gaming moments in history. Your a idiot SPANKIT go eats some cookies
Entropy Virus HiveMind Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 64	Posted - 2012.10.06 14:46:00 - [10] - Quote My main point, is that every game brings to it a different reason to play. Dust needs to make sure that the battlefields, and its "ROLE BASED" team work, is there, 100%. Because THAT is what is going to make it last more than 5 years. If you make the "individual shooter" experiance paramount and the be all end all... you will not be bale to balance everything else properly, and it will turn into MAG: Where tactics and organization don't really effect the game as much. And as soon as the enxt best thing comes.... your playerbase leaves. Whereas a DECENT SHOOTER, that isn't horribly broken, but amazing dynamics that make even doing a mundane sentry role is fun, because you know how you fit into the battlefield's big picture, is what we are all here for.

Mosley Harmless Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2012.10.06 14:53:00 - [11] - Quote I get the point, but I don't think that "role based team work" and "decently paced gunplay" are mutually exclusive. They could buff everything by a factor of 2 so that the overal balance is maintained but that the gameplay becomes twice as energetic.
Virex Staz Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 53	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:05:00 - [12] - Quote Mosley Harmless wrote: They could buff everything by a factor of 2 so that the overal balance is maintained but that the gameplay becomes twice as energetic. Oh god no! I can't keep up as it is
Mosley Harmless Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:13:00 - [13] - Quote Virex Staz wrote: Mosley Harmless wrote: They could buff everything by a factor of 2 so that the overal balance is maintained but that the gameplay becomes twice as energetic. Oh god no! I can't keep up as it is To be fair, that's just my personal opinion, I don't expect anyone to agree.
TotalBreakage Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 410	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:26:00 - [14] - Quote Hive Mind speaks wise words.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:37:00 - [15] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: I'm not defending MY installation with MY money if the game isn't enjoyable & unique to play. Last build it was even with the technical issues. This build? Meh. Bf2 BC clone. I see what you're saying, but no. Standard hp in ANYGAME is 100. Doom. Good speed before UT was Doom. Which could be crazy fast. Accepted norm for jumping was strafe jumping. See quake/UT. Did they make games before cod? :P joking Sure, theres a whole battlefield. Heck there's a full galaxy out there. But if I don't like the speed:Heath:damage ratio, I probably won't be that fussed. Like I say, last build was wonderful. Just explaining why us precious princesses are all of a fap about gunplay. The thing is, using a base 100 scale is not using HP, its using HP%. Dust is using actual HP (like an RPG). Doom and Unreal were also small-scale, very fast-paced games that had roots in DM. Dust is not small-scale, and almost certainly won't have a competitive DM side at all. You also won't see some "traditional" gamemodes (CTF and DM esp.) in Dust at all. Its going to be a game much more like MAG was; slower pace, bigger map-based battles, highly team-oriented. Its also going to have heavy roots in RPGs, where your class/skillset do have an impact in things (hopefully, though, not too much of an impact in actual gunfights) I don't want this game to be like Doom/Quake/Unreal; it wouldn't make sense in the setting and would be counter to what is trying to be accomplished. And really, if I want to play a game like those I'd much rather have id/Epic doing the work... Yes, I am looking for a game that is much more like a MAG 2. MAG was amazing for what it did. If the lag didn't get the better of it, I'd still be playing. Right now, I'm in Starhawk, which does have similar pacing/style as Unreal (its overall very similar to Onslaught [esp. in terms of vehicles/scale], but also has TDM, DM, CTF, and 1FCTF), and I'm enjoying the game tremendously.
Chankk Saotome CrimeWave Syndicate 170	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:44:00 - [16] - Quote Entropy Virus HiveMind wrote: Dust is going to add a new question to this equation. Dust is a new game: Learn it, love it, and get good at it. While your focusing on strafe speed, or how a tank can POSSIBLY be better than a single guy, your not looking at the big picture That Dust is going to make you change the way you think about a shooter. That its not all about you in the moment, its about the WHOLE BATTLEFIELD. The aim down sights? Really? Your defending an installation that YOU created with your OWN money and sweat.... This is not about how you feel princesses. This is about the War. And the Money. Do your job. Everything will fall into place and mean more when the game is as it should. So much is quotable within this statement but I think these points really focus on what the generic FPS crowd is missing, and what those of us who have played team-based games (be they FPS or not) have already learned and are both learning more about as well as using to tactical TEAM advantage. This is not pitcher vs batter baseball, this is not hot-shot basketball, this is not Dynasty Warriors with guns. This is soccer (futbol if you're from "across the pond" as they all say), this is rugby, this is actual team combat where you are not Jesus with an HMG, you are not Ocelot Revolver, you are not Rambo. You are a member and a PART of a TEAM. While there may be occasions for people to play their solo-game as were in MAG with lone-wolf operators and covert demo runners, this is primarily focused on making people work together (including the element of playing roles other than "pick up AR, shoot down sights"). If you can't even understand this then, and I mean this in the most gentle terms with no disrespect, this is probably not a game designed for you.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:45:00 - [17] - Quote Entropy Virus HiveMind wrote: My main point, is that every game brings to it a different reason to play. If your selling point for most people is the run and gun experiance, you now have a shelf life for your game. If your selling point is dynamic, team based battlefields, that balance out ROLES and risk vs reward of heavier equipment.... Then your game will last forever, because when the graphics get dated, and the single player experiance is superior in other games.... you'll keep coming back to this as the benchmark for what a REAL battle is and means. Very well said. I think the point will get driven home to the doubters once Faction Warfare is deployed, and even more so next year when they start testing null-sec, since they mentioned before that they're considering a public test client, such as in EVE.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:48:00 - [18] - Quote Deathmatch is called ambush. You haven't been paying attention Archer.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:52:00 - [19] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Deathmatch is called ambush. You haven't been paying attention Archer. TEAM Deathmatch is called Ambush...maybe you should be paying attention...and learn your gamemodes...
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.06 15:55:00 - [20] - Quote Same game. Kill the enemy, don't die.

Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:08:00 - [21] - Quote This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:09:00 - [22] - Quote The objective may be the same, but one has more an emphasis on the team, the other on the player. You can do really well in TDM and still lose (and its not as uncommon as people think). While the same can be said in DM, chances of losing when doing really well are very slim, and make the best battles. Many do see TDM as nothing more then a DM where you can't shoot half the people. While that can be the case with randoms, it isn't in an organized match. You need teamwork, or you will lose.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:16:00 - [23] - Quote Entropy Virus HiveMind wrote: What was the standard for amount of health before Rainbow 6? What was the accepted norm for jumping before Halo? What did you think of games before COD? How fast was a "good speed" before Unreal Tournament? All four of these games.... if you played the betas of them, and compared them to the other 3.... what would your opinions be of them? Dust is going to add a new question to this equation. Dust is a new game: Learn it, love it, and get good at it. While your focusing on strafe speed, or how a tank can POSSIBLY be better than a single guy, your not looking at the big picture: That Dust is going to make you change the way you think about a shooter. That its not all about you in the moment, its about the WHOLE BATTLEFIELD. The aim down sights? Really? Your defending an installation that YOU created with your OWN money and sweat....with 10 other guy's while around you, in UNIQUE roles that play completely different, while a guy flying a MCC gigantic command center shooting rockets all over the place at another flying behemoth, is calling out orders and managing where to send reinforcements, because there is 5-8 other objectives and installations that are important...on a district on a planet in a solar system in a universe that is player driven economy, tanks are being called in, strikes flying over head.... meanwhile your squad leader stopped mid battle and is leaving you hanging, because he got an offer from the other team for twice as much money, and now you gotta tell your commander that your in charge now. He gets on comms and explains what's going on and then everyone on your team stops caring about how they are losing money calling in their expensive ****, its now all about the revenge. You get sniped and your AR can't reach and then you die, so you remember next time that maybe your 10 man group should include at least 1 counter sniper. This is not about how you feel princesses. This is about the War. And the Money. Do your job. Everything will fall into place and mean more when the game is as it should. And you even had the option of paying ZERO DOLLARS for the privilege of this magnificent experience. People will come and go with this game, but just like EVE, the playerbase will always be there, and as the game evolves, people will still come back again and again as the stories of victory and defeat flood the top 10 gaming moments in history. This is all nice and true in a way. But doesnt change a bit the fact that compared to how dust felt for THREE BUILD before this one, the gunplay experience feels slow and akward. Mobitlity may not the prime factor to determine if a FPS is good or not but the previous faster movement didnt make it any worse nor changed a bit in anything you just said. Like it or not, we're a lot to feel that this new mobility model isnt appealing at all and kinda destroyed the game. Personnaly, i dont take any pleasure in playing it even though i still manage to maintain my "level" in game. It's not about being a princess and wanting to have the perfect gameplay in order to have a high KDR. It is a about having fun as without this, any game, no matter how deep or new it appears, is no good.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:29:00 - [24] - Quote What he said ^^
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:52:00 - [25] - Quote The gameplay really isn't that bad. Movements are a little slower than some but still not too bad. My biggest thing were the space guns. But now, since this build, they make the guns seem like they are actually shooting bullets instead of futuristic lasers....I like it even more.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:18:00 - [26] - Quote Bosse Ansgar wrote: This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible. So what's broken? Hit detection is dead on as far as I can tell. Character movement over the terrain feels good too. This is exactly what CCP said they were focusing on in these early builds and from where I'm sitting they delivered.
Mosley Harmless Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:29:00 - [27] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible. So what's broken? Hit detection is dead on as far as I can tell. Character movement over the terrain feels good too. This is exactly what CCP said they were focusing on in these early builds and from where I'm sitting they delivered. Some people think the character movement is too slow, it's all personal preference. I wouldn't call it broken, just less than satisfactory.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.10.06 18:01:00 - [28] - Quote Mosley Harmless wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible. So what's broken? Hit detection is dead on as far as I can tell. Character movement over the terrain feels good too. This is exactly what CCP said they were focusing on in these early builds and from where I'm sitting they delivered. Some people think the character movement is too slow, it's all personal preference. I wouldn't call it broken, just less than satisfactory. My point exactly. And 95% of the whining, crying, ignorance and pathetic behavior that pollutes these forums can be ascribed to exactly that: personal taste - or lack thereof.
Entropy Virus HiveMind Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 64	Posted - 2012.10.06 18:05:00 - [29] - Quote Throw in 20 more players per battle and it wont seem slow. It wont seem slow when 32 players group up for a full frontal charge down the center, with 5 tanks, 3 dropships and LAV's full of troops in it. Broken game mechanics is not the issue. Thats a fix issue. Aim down the sights not feeling right because its halo style, is purely stylistic. It only feels weird if you have EXPECTATIONS. (not including obvious flaws, like hit detection, terrain navigation) The more you make the individual soldier powerful, the less everything else becomes unique, and all the RPG, leveling, skill ISK systems become silly and pointless. And buffing by a factor of 2 across the board doesn't work either, because then reaction time of the average player becomes much more important, other than fit selection/role choice. if you've ever played mag, 32vs32 is often too little players on a map.... until you put two teams that know what they are doing, then its NON stop excitement. If you participated in the MAG CLAN WARS, you'd know how real competition changes a mediocre game.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.06 19:08:00 - [30] - Quote /!\ veteran. Favorite game was 2kills 2 deaths 72 assists. But I disagree still. Because MAG had the fast paced combat with the dipty-duck-drop-wiggle game play I loved. AND it was tactical. Medkits were OP. No argument. Every team, every player had a medkit. But this isn't MAG2. Nor should it be. I do think your main point though, that it's stylistic/preference based than technical problems.

Madison Four 57	Posted - 2012.10.06 19:14:00 - [31] - Quote Tony, do they keep track of Assists, like they do for Kills, deaths, and warpoints? I notice that I don't get a lot of kills, but I get TONS of kill assists. also, I'll say that yeah, the Gun sights on the assault rifle have always felt a little weird to me.
Madison Four 57	Posted - 2012.10.06 19:17:00 - [32] - Quote so is it safe to say that the main issue here, is a difference of opinion between those who want to be able to circle-strafe everything in a scout suit, and those who don't want people to be able to do that? or is that generalizing too much? exactly how much of a speed increase is necessary to satisfy the people who are complaining? a slight increase?, back to the way it was last build? or does it need to be halo/unreal tournament super bunny-hop headshot-ness?
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.10.06 20:50:00 - [33] - Quote Madison Four wrote: so is it safe to say that the main issue here, is a difference of opinion between those who want to be able to circle-strafe everything in a scout suit, and those who don't want people to be able to do that? or is that generalizing too much? exactly how much of a speed increase is necessary to satisfy the people who are complaining? a slight increase?, back to the way it was last build? or does it need to be halo/unreal tournament super bunny-hop headshot-ness? This is getting close to the core of the debate re: 'broken game mechanics'(which they aren't). If we as a community want to really hash this out we need the numbers for strafe speed from all the builds: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=337772#post337772
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:43:00 - [34] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Mosley Harmless wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible. So what's broken? Hit detection is dead on as far as I can tell. Character movement over the terrain feels good too. This is exactly what CCP said they were focusing on in these early builds and from where I'm sitting they delivered. Some people think the character movement is too slow, it's all personal preference. I wouldn't call it broken, just less than satisfactory. My point exactly. And 95% of the whining, crying, ignorance and pathetic behavior that pollutes these forums can be ascribed to exactly that: personal taste - or lack thereof. Before I lay into that, let me say this. The personal taste of the majority of people who play the game should have an effect on how the game ends up. Personal tastes are where suggestions come from, and if you notice there is a suggestions section in this forum. If they didn't want to hear about personal tastes they wouldn't have a section for them. Just because other's tastes don't align to yours is no reason to blast them for not adapting. Now then... It is broken, and not just the gunplay. This game's core is gunplay and in order for the gunplay to be acceptable the gunplay isn't the only thing that needs to be fixed. If the supporting mechanics are out of whack, the entire core of the game is going to be busted. Try to ascribe these to personal taste: 1. Logistics users are basically penalized for being support characters because upgrading your logistics skills and items does nothing to help increase your score in the slightest. A better repair tool makes you repair faster, but that also means you cycle less repair points and you get less points overall for the same amount recovered. Better nanite injectors give no bonus to WP compared to the basic ones so they are basically paying extra in order to help heal a teammate more and get nothing in return. It's in their best interest to use the militia one and let you die repeatedly so they can revive you again. 2. Hit detection on well on it's way to being fixed for some weapons, but there are still some issues with the shogun and nova knife detection. 3. The scout dropsuits are supposed to be hard to see. They are not. The scout suit is supposed to be a stealth suit if you recall, they are supposed to blend into the background and they are far from doing that at the moment. When and if this is actually fixed do you know what will happen? Everyone is going to be suited up in a scout suit and sniping. Those few who brave the middle of the field for a real fight will be picked off before they get there. If you have a solution for this I'd like to hear it. The only one I can think of is upping the movement speed and strafing speed so people can try to out run the snipers trying to scope them. It'll make the gameplay very different, but if they really plan to make the scout suit that hard to detect then that's just how it's gonna happen. 4. 90% of FPS gamers are used to having an ADS option. Taking that away does not make them happy, and in order for this to be successful it has to be accessible to all new players. This game is already going to be very confusing to new Dust players because of all the menus and customization, so if the gameplay isn't familiar enough for them to fall into it without much trouble, then they will have little incentive to keep playing. 5. And that brings me to 5, which is that this game needs an alternate streamlined interface for casual players. They've gone on and on about how normal FPS players can just jump right in and play without worrying about all the other menus, but if they do that and get owned because everyone else has way better gear and they don't realize that, what's gonna happen? Rage quit. And as I said before, they want as many players as possible. They need to set up a menu system that will allow auto-buying and auto-customization based on some preset choice made when you make a new character. This way you can progress through the game as a casual FPS player who just wants a good shooter, or as a full on Dust player who want's all the ins and outs of full on customization. You go on about personal taste. Ha! What's the goal here? To get people to play, right? If people don't feel like they are able to jump right in to this without a lot of hassle there are tons of other shooters out there to choose from. And I guarantee you at least 95% of them have at least some form of ADS.
Regis Mark V 91	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:15:00 - [35] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: /!\ veteran. Favorite game was 2kills 2 deaths 72 assists. But I disagree still. Because MAG had the fast paced combat with the dipty-duck-drop-wiggle game play I loved. AND it was tactical. Medkits were OP. No argument. Every team, every player had a medkit. But this isn't MAG2. Nor should it be. I do think your main point though, that it's stylistic/preference based than technical problems. ^^^This
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:39:00 - [36] - Quote If the actually gameplay is THIS ***** boring, all the bells and whistles in the world don't matter. You can go ahead and fight over who gets to be king ** of turd mountain if you want, but if the gameplay itself isn't fun then who cares who's the one holding all the territory and in charge of all the make believe outerspace money?
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:47:00 - [37] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: If the actually gameplay is THIS ***** boring, all the bells and whistles in the world don't matter. You can go ahead and fight over who gets to be king ** of turd mountain if you want, but if the gameplay itself isn't fun then who cares who's the one holding all the territory and in charge of all the make believe outerspace money? +1


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