DUST Search - "The Gunplay is terrible" connundrum.

Vrain Matari wrote:

Mosley Harmless wrote:

Vrain Matari wrote:

Bosse Ansgar wrote:

This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand.

You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible.

So what's broken? Hit detection is dead on as far as I can tell. Character movement over the terrain feels good too. This is exactly what CCP said they were focusing on in these early builds and from where I'm sitting they delivered.

Some people think the character movement is too slow, it's all personal preference. I wouldn't call it broken, just less than satisfactory.

My point exactly. And 95% of the whining, crying, ignorance and pathetic behavior that pollutes these forums can be ascribed to exactly that: personal taste - or lack thereof.


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Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.06 16:08:00 - [1] - Quote This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible.
Bosse Ansgar 47	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:43:00 - [2] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Mosley Harmless wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Bosse Ansgar wrote: This is beautifully worded. However it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. You wouldn't play a Grand Theft Auto with broken movement mechanics, you wouldn't play Need For Speed with broken steering, you wouldn't play Final Fantasy with broken gameplay (see FF14), and the same applies here. The game can be as deep and amazing as it wants, but if the core gameplay, which in this situation happens to be gunplay, isn't satisfactory people aren't going to want to play it. Most people hate having to adapt to something they find strange or difficult to use, so if CCP really want's this to be a successful game they need it to be as accessible as possible. So what's broken? Hit detection is dead on as far as I can tell. Character movement over the terrain feels good too. This is exactly what CCP said they were focusing on in these early builds and from where I'm sitting they delivered. Some people think the character movement is too slow, it's all personal preference. I wouldn't call it broken, just less than satisfactory. My point exactly. And 95% of the whining, crying, ignorance and pathetic behavior that pollutes these forums can be ascribed to exactly that: personal taste - or lack thereof. Before I lay into that, let me say this. The personal taste of the majority of people who play the game should have an effect on how the game ends up. Personal tastes are where suggestions come from, and if you notice there is a suggestions section in this forum. If they didn't want to hear about personal tastes they wouldn't have a section for them. Just because other's tastes don't align to yours is no reason to blast them for not adapting. Now then... It is broken, and not just the gunplay. This game's core is gunplay and in order for the gunplay to be acceptable the gunplay isn't the only thing that needs to be fixed. If the supporting mechanics are out of whack, the entire core of the game is going to be busted. Try to ascribe these to personal taste: 1. Logistics users are basically penalized for being support characters because upgrading your logistics skills and items does nothing to help increase your score in the slightest. A better repair tool makes you repair faster, but that also means you cycle less repair points and you get less points overall for the same amount recovered. Better nanite injectors give no bonus to WP compared to the basic ones so they are basically paying extra in order to help heal a teammate more and get nothing in return. It's in their best interest to use the militia one and let you die repeatedly so they can revive you again. 2. Hit detection on well on it's way to being fixed for some weapons, but there are still some issues with the shogun and nova knife detection. 3. The scout dropsuits are supposed to be hard to see. They are not. The scout suit is supposed to be a stealth suit if you recall, they are supposed to blend into the background and they are far from doing that at the moment. When and if this is actually fixed do you know what will happen? Everyone is going to be suited up in a scout suit and sniping. Those few who brave the middle of the field for a real fight will be picked off before they get there. If you have a solution for this I'd like to hear it. The only one I can think of is upping the movement speed and strafing speed so people can try to out run the snipers trying to scope them. It'll make the gameplay very different, but if they really plan to make the scout suit that hard to detect then that's just how it's gonna happen. 4. 90% of FPS gamers are used to having an ADS option. Taking that away does not make them happy, and in order for this to be successful it has to be accessible to all new players. This game is already going to be very confusing to new Dust players because of all the menus and customization, so if the gameplay isn't familiar enough for them to fall into it without much trouble, then they will have little incentive to keep playing. 5. And that brings me to 5, which is that this game needs an alternate streamlined interface for casual players. They've gone on and on about how normal FPS players can just jump right in and play without worrying about all the other menus, but if they do that and get owned because everyone else has way better gear and they don't realize that, what's gonna happen? Rage quit. And as I said before, they want as many players as possible. They need to set up a menu system that will allow auto-buying and auto-customization based on some preset choice made when you make a new character. This way you can progress through the game as a casual FPS player who just wants a good shooter, or as a full on Dust player who want's all the ins and outs of full on customization. You go on about personal taste. Ha! What's the goal here? To get people to play, right? If people don't feel like they are able to jump right in to this without a lot of hassle there are tons of other shooters out there to choose from. And I guarantee you at least 95% of them have at least some form of ADS.