UK your mistaken. We get sp but no isk. We always get sp get killing stuff.

FW won't have isk payouts just like in eve online. Bit I'm sure it'll have some kind of loyalty point store.

Money , honour , bragging rights.

Felt this needed it's own thread.

According to CCP we will -not- be getting SP rewards for corporation battles and/or faction warfare battles. When asked what reward(s) we would be getting:

"Money , honour , bragging rights."

To which I say, why would we want to do it for ISK if we can just give our dust mercs/corporation(s) money from Eve Online?

What's the incentive other than putting a flag on the district..?

I honestly think we should work this out. Discuss.

I lol'd at the change of name.
Faction warfare is not the basis of this game, shooting people in the face is. As long as CCP provides a stable game(not looking good ATM) with solid gunplay, people will play this game.

What more do you want?

what they get is more interest in eve , more people will learn, hey if i make an eve account and pay for the sub i can pve for a few hours in eve and have enough iskies for all the uber suits and guns for my dust merc for a week ! which = more suscribers and more profit for ccp- they cant lose. :)

No offense but that logic is counter productive. It detracts from having a desire to do corporate battles for anything other than a pissing contest.

No offense but that logic is counter productive. It detracts from having a desire to do corporate battles for anything other than a pissing contest.

I'm kind of confused about this, myself. Obviously we're all always gaining passive SP, but having the high-sec matchmaking system as the only means of active SP gain just seems very odd.

[9:12:19 PM]: It would completely remove any incentive to delve into Eve Online's aspects of Factional Warfare/Null-Sec Sovereignty holding. There would be no reason to do so as money earned from those are -completely- overshadowed by ISK donations from Capsuleers.

There should be progressively better rewards for branching out and delving into the rabbit hole - not less. At this rate it's going to completely gut any aspect of introducing new players to what the game has to offer.

Taking planets is one thing but if it's just for the sake of taking the planet, no-one is going to want to do it when they're losing dropsuits and gear. Isk reward is one thing but if they're not getting character progression (sp) then it's a single-edged sword.

Even then, taking planets for faction warfare (which is all that will be available to us at first) isn't claiming it for -your- corporation. It's claiming it for the faction you've chosen to be with - and the reward is more than likely going to be in the form of isk and/or standings.

Let me slide this past you.....

You are in a corp battle against another corp. The other corp is made of your friends using trash characters standing in the same place waiting for your bullets. You get bajillions of SP. Game is broken.


Corp battles do not and should not offer sp since you can potentially do something like this and i think CCP is smarter than you are giving them credit for. Corp battles might not be where the SP is at, but it sure as hell is going to be where the money is at...

What if CCP allows SP back into corp warfare but limits the number of battles a character can play per day or per week?

Will that compromise be acceptable?

This way corps would also be forced to spread the talent among squads and train up their other members so that they can accept more contracts.

What if CCP allows SP back into corp warfare but limits the number of battles a character can play per day or per week?

Will that compromise be acceptable?

This way corps would also be forced to spread the talent among squads and train up their other members so that they can accept more contracts.

Let me slide this past you.....

You are in a corp battle against another corp. The other corp is made of your friends using trash characters standing in the same place waiting for your bullets. You get bajillions of SP. Game is broken.


Corp battles do not and should not offer sp since you can potentially do something like this and i think CCP is smarter than you are giving them credit for. Corp battles might not be where the SP is at, but it sure as hell is going to be where the money is at...

Nah, this is worse. Corp war is intend for those EVE corp out there wrestling for galaxy domination. They will need flexibility to attack many different ditricts/planet in the same day/time of day. Putting a cap like this will annoying not only Dust player but EVE player as well.

Corp battle is battle for wealth (land and isk alike) not for SP grind. Like Lurchasaurus aid, let's the money be where it is and the sp where it is. Also, with this sp cap around I believe we will only need to go to pub game a few day a week. Then the rest of the week won't yield you any usable SP anyway.

This would be extremely BAD.
Once player corporations will be able to own districts and planets you will need to defend them.
If half of your corp members can't join battles because they alreday met your proposed limit how are you going to defend your planet(s)?

An attack in the EvE universe can start at any time of the day, if you don't have the numbers to defend your territory you will lose it.

This, pretty much.

As an example, think of 'regular' MMOs. You grind levels, but you also have raid-nights where you get together with your guild or whatever to stomp some skulls. You don't do both at the same time.

Grind is menial work that's necessary to progress. But you don't do menial work during the 'big game', do you? Athletes don't take their training weights out onto the track with them.

In a corp battle, your corp's interests are your driving force and your highest priority. What happens to that if you're still focused on getting your SP's at the end of it?

Null-sec (corp vs. corp) battles, unlike NPC based FW and instant matches , are going to be paying shitloads of ISK.

So basically you get a choice, want ISK or SP?

Look at this quote. My understanding is that CCP Cognac replied to 843 pano that there will be no sp reward for corp battle which is understandable. I don't think he also meant Faction warefare will yield no sp reward as well. Just a quoting error perhap ?

Why would we want to do Corp Battle's in the first place if we're not obligated to do so?

Right - but when they attack you don't suddenly stop gaining SP.

Null-sec (corp vs. corp) battles, unlike NPC based FW and instant matches , are going to be paying shitloads of ISK.

So basically you get a choice, want ISK or SP?

. Corp battles might not be where the SP is at, but it sure as hell is going to be where the money is at...

I've got 5,000,000,000 isk. I don't need any more.

Did you miss the part where I asked about Faction Warfare - dude?

Solid gunplay is one thing but if the only way to get character progression is through instant matchmaking then I have no reason to play this. Victory should not be attained -SOLELY- by team deathmatch.

I do not agree with the No SP in Corp Battles.




I see this happening

With Corps setting up Dummy Corp to grab the contracts, they will only be doing this to pad their KDRs and Win/Lose rat for leader boards, not for SP due to the SP Cap.

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They would have to change the payout denominations for quickmatches for this to hold. With the current values its not that difficult for an above average player to consistently run trick gear.

I'd like it if the really tasty salvage be more likely to be had in corp battles/conquest mode as well, let the other game modes have more common salvage types with a lesser chance for the really nice stuff as a tradeoff.

WHY everyone complain about no SP for corp battles?
There is the PASSIVE SP GAIN you know?
And nothing stop you from making a squad with your corpmates and kill people in random games.
And remember that we will have PVE too, that will probably give us SP.

Solid gunplay is one thing but if the only way to get character progression is through instant matchmaking then I have no reason to play this. Victory should not be attained -SOLELY- by team deathmatch.

It kills a sandbox atmosphere to require certain actions in order to advance. I heard it suggested before that PVE was being considered as the place to grind out your isk (so you only PVP after grinding enough to actually pay to play). This is right along those lines and is a similar awful idea, but I don't doubt someone thought it was and is the current structure of the game. Speak up and we might be able to change it.

I don't get this. If we look at Eve there is no SP reward but people play so why should SP gain be such a big issue in dust ?

Felt this needed it's own thread.

According to CCP we will -not- be getting SP rewards for corporation battles and/or faction warfare battles. When asked what reward(s) we would be getting:

"Money , honour , bragging rights."

To which I say, why would we want to do it for ISK if we can just give our dust mercs/corporation(s) money from Eve Online?

What's the incentive other than putting a flag on the district..?

Why was the decision made so that character progression can -only- occur through instant matchmaking?

I honestly think we should work this out. Discuss.

Well lets see

Will the corps be constantly fighting each other game after game after game? no

So what will the corps be doing? PVE stuff maybe and clowning around in high sec and taking the odd NPC contracts for SP and practise

This is done so that ppl wont set up dummy corps and stay in 1 match for like 1hour boosting each other up because ppl will do it

1. How the hell are people talking about the death of DUST before it's even released? Is it because once it's released they can't possibly change anything? Are they not allowed to patch things?

Are you a drama student?

2. I missed the part where only wealthy EvE players were allowed to play OR are you offering to support your entire corp? If that is the case can I join?


Regards

Jax

Hey Aeon, I initially disagreed with you when you brought this up in IRC yesterday. After reading all this I'm on your side. The only valid argument AGAINST SP in Corp battles is boosters, but in the end, who cares how the boosters reach the weekly cap? They're going to do it, it's inevitable and it doesn't matter whether the cap is reached by instant battles or corp battles, they're getting the same amount in the end.

I'm responding to this because you're not seeing between the lines and choosing to only read the title of the situation than have some foresight to the problem at hand.

Edit: To expand on this - I want to ask a question for everyone in the community.

Should Instant Matchmaking be an "optional" feature over all that Eve Online has to offer ?
-OR-
Should Territorial Gain be an "optional" feature over Instant Matchmaking?

So how would they go about keeping the problem of SP farming with dummy corps in check while simultaneously allowing SP gain in Corp Vs. Corp?

One solution is to use the EVE model, only passive skill gain. It wouldn't fly here as the target audience, for the most part, couldn't stomach it. Not allowing corp v corp SP gain is the compromise butI don't know that it will work. I know with absolute certainty that if corp v corp matches allowed SP gain people would create dummy corps to grind SP. Under the no SP system, they will already KDR and Warscore pad. This is a bad solution, but I don't know what a good one would be.

[What if there were a minimum Meta level for gear required to que up for a Corp v Corp battle? Pay a price for throwing the match. Of course there are other prices that can (and as far as I know, will) be in place as well (just as it is with FW and Corp War Decs in EVE). Tho the specifics of that other system have not been revealed (or finalized?) yet so perhaps we could throw some suggestions into the ring, this is beta after all so that's kind of the point

Cheers,
Cross

I have an idea, but it might create a host of other problems, however I'll mention it here in case the community is able to hammer it out into something more useful.

What if there were a minimum Meta level for gear required to que up for a Corp v Corp battle? Pay a price for throwing the match. Of course there are other prices that can (and as far as I know, will) be in place as well (just as it is with FW and Corp War Decs in EVE). Tho the specifics of that other system have not been revealed (or finalized?) yet so perhaps we could throw some suggestions into the ring, this is beta after all so that's kind of the point

Cheers,
Cross

They could always just introduce a war declaration system to help manage the costs for corporate combat...

So then how would this go about managing/allowing the SP gain from Corp Vs Corp battles?

No idea. But it would add a financial burden to Corp vs Corp combat & a mechanism for griefing

A good idea but a problem I see is it wouldn't stop people from capping objectives (and then letting the other team do the same, rinse repeat) and other non-violent means of gaining war points and therefore skill points until whichever side was elected to win, won.

Null-sec (corp vs. corp) battles, unlike NPC based FW and instant matches , are going to be paying shitloads of ISK.

So basically you get a choice, want ISK or SP?

For weeks, if not months, I said that Matchmaking would have limited the sandbox elements: I was ignored.
I said that PVE was a bad idea because PVE works in RPG but not in competitive FPS: I was ignored.
For weeks I said that CCP was creating restrictions and divisions to something that should have been "one universe, one war".
I was ignored all the time.

Also there is a far bigger problem.
I said that newbies would have had serious disadvantages when put against veterans (see this) because of statistical disadvantages and what people here told me is "veterans will not use matchmaking, there will be no problems".
Now is clear that veterans WILL use matchmaking and those balance issues will eventually contribute to Dust "inevitable death".

In the end nobody listened to me, CCP didn't take what I said seriously nor did players, and here we are trying to save a game form "inevitable death".
Death in beta.

Now, we could all just play Dust 514 FOR FUN...but then Dust is such a poor FPS so I don't see this as the solution to our problems.

So if you only serve your Corporation and do Corp. battles then you will never be able to skill up? Seems counter productive to the way fighting wars should be. You fight a lot for your Corp/Nation you get experiance from it and can do things better, but in Soviet New Eden Experience gains you.

gnn.enjin.com/

GNN Commented on the topic.

Grezkev, good game the other night. To bad it was the 5 CP map, I can't move with 1 frame a second.

Look forward to more good matches with you guys.

I lol'd at the change of name.
Faction warfare is not the basis of this game, shooting people in the face is. As long as CCP provides a stable game(not looking good ATM) with solid gunplay, people will play this game.