2) Add a very bright tracer effect to sniping. Shooting a sniper rifle should draw a big, bright line between you and your target. People should be able to see where the sniper fire is coming from, but to effectively counter you AND to know what area is dangerous to expose themselves to.

3) Reduce the overall power of sniper rifles. Being instantly killed sucks. It shouldn't happen unless a wounded person is hit, or someone with a very good rifle and weapon skills shoots someone with militia crap armor and poor skills. Sniping should be more about suppression and harassment than outright kills. It's possible that with sniping being harder and less safe to do it may be unnecessary to reduce sniper rifle damage by much, if at all, however.

So you want to punish every sniper because the mouse is overpowered? That is not how to fix a problem with one peripheral that not everyone has.

1. The sniper rifle is a railgun(which is actually being developed - at least according to

2. It's a sniper rifle, not a laser tag gun. If every time you took a shot someone would come to find you nobody would play as a sniper(cheers and applauds from those who don't know how to counter a sniper, I'm sure).

3. Once the marketplace opens up then we might want to look at this. We're very early in the current build and nobody has enough money to get out of the militia suits for more than a round or two. Basic suits are enough to not get one shotted by militia rifles and advanced suits by the charge and prototype rifles, but as I said nobody can afford them.

actually the sniper physics are fine IMO. sniper should be able to 1 shot kill if they can line up a head shot 2 to the body, otherwise why have a sniper rifle its virtually useless in close quarters.

I'm not sure what the alternative would be. You can't leave sniper rifles as powerful as they are for people who are using mice. I think sniping being over-nerfed is better than it being under-nerfed, as powerful sniping makes the game less fun for a lot of people, whereas weak sniping makes it less fun for just snipers.

It's a video game, the sniper rifle is whatever they want it to be.

Shooting your gun wouldn't summon a magical sniper-finding assassin, you'd simply make it easier for people to find you and kill you. Snipers would find themselves in greater danger overall, which is a positive change.

Seeing as it's a control issue then maybe do something to the mouse controls such as adding a permanent sway when a mouse is used.

I honestly don't know why I'm discussing this one as currently they never even look up to find your arrow, it's only other snipers that are actively looking for you and for that we also have the muzzle flash in addition to the arrows.

I currently use both mouse and DS3 when playing and I can tell you that currently the mouse isn't as overpowered as you think it is. Sure I have an easier time sniping since it's just point and click, however having to track a moving target is not simple due to the hardcap that is in place. Sometimes I have to switch to DS3 for those scouts

You're asking for there to be permanent sway when using a mouse; unfortunately that is not possible due to the fact that many players such as myself constantly switch back and forth between KB/M and DS3. If permanent sway were introduced, it'd have to be for everyone and then by using sniper rifle proficiency does it go away.

I want a balanced game just as much as everyone else and I am by no means trying to defend KB/M as I'm more of a DS3 player myself; however, I just don't see how some of these suggestions of fixing Mouse users would work.

Change the DS3 sensitivity to a max and you can snipe very well.

Well, I was suggesting bullet drop, bullet travel time, and the other guy suggested adding permanent sway. I'm not technically proficient enough to say whether that's a good idea in a practical sense, but I agree with the theory behind it.

As for whether the mouse is as good as I say, well, that I guess is pretty subjective. I find myself able to get kills so easily by sniping with a mouse that I can't imagine the experience of other players is so different. Hopefully we'd all agree that it is a very easy implementation of sniping, is very powerful despite that ease of use, and that probably isn't a good sort of thing to let persist in the game.



Yes, I was using the DS3 prior to Precursor. I'm not one for console FPS games usually, so I don't think I'm very good with the DS3 (a 2.00 KD before the wipe) but I am absolutely slaughtering people using a mouse. It's hard for me to say what the average player's opinion might be, but I've elucidated mine in the OP.

Personally I think the best way to counter an over indulgence in sniping is through map construction. Yes you can nerf them so no one uses them, but that doesn't make for a healthy diversity in game play. Better to make controlled sniping an idea to keep in the back of the map makers mind.
That being said, the charges sniper rifle really does favor the KBM user a little too strongly imo. I'd like to see snipers have to focus on head shots for one shot kills unless they have a heavy SP investment in sniping.

Sniper are just fine as they are, it's already hard enough to swing that dot to get proper aim and OHK kills don't happen unless it's a militia suit you're shooting.
In last build even proto scouts tanked my ishukone rifle with best dmg mods and with militia you need 2-3 hits anyway unless you get a head shot.

You'll hopefully note I'm specifically referring to using a mouse to snipe. DS3 I'm not sure about as I am not very good at console controllers, but with the mouse it is absolutely not difficult to kill people and isn't anything like being "just fine".

The one-shot-kill stuff, as I mentioned, is primarily a charge rifle issue. Very few non-heavies can survive a charged shot. I think the game moving toward a system of sniping where only significant gear/skill disparities or headshots produce one-hit-kill sniping would be a good way to handle it. Right now it's pretty well anyone not in a heavy suit that goes down in one hit to a charged rifle.

2) Add a very bright tracer effect to sniping. Shooting a sniper rifle should draw a big, bright line between you and your target. People should be able to see where the sniper fire is coming from, but to effectively counter you AND to know what area is dangerous to expose themselves to.

This is probably one of the worst suggestions I've heard from the perspective of a sniper.

The point is to be somewhat covert. Having chevrons that blaze over our heads when a target looks sideways at us is enough of a handicap. Thanks.

Play as a guy with an assault rifle. Get to the same level of skills and spend the same amount on your equipment. See whether you're able to get a better kill:death ratio as a sniper or as an assault guy. Spoiler: You'll get far, far more kills as a sniper. Being a random infantry guy is really perilous. You have vehicles, other infantry guys, and of course, ******* snipers. Being a sniper is a piece of cake. Just find a good spot, shoot till you have no more bullets, and keep an eye out for enemy snipers. Sniping isn't even close to being a balanced method of play right now, and especially as someone sniping with a mouse you're really living the easy life compared to the people you're killing.

I'm in favour of reduced damage and actually making it harder to aim via bullet drop, plus the whole tracer thing. Even if you reduce damage it'd still be very easy and very safe to be a sniper. Wouldn't get as many kills, but you'd still get quite a few for basically no risk. I don't think reduced damage in itself goes far enough. Although, who knows, maybe it would. Something you'd have to play through in increments I suspect.

This is true no matter what control you use. Sniper rifles should be more like marksman rifles 75 starting damage double ammo capacity 15 round magazine without the huge headshot multiplier

lot's of stuff

I agree with this. People have been confusing snipers with marksmen in video games for years. A sniper is someone who takes out unsuspecting high-value personnel from like a mile away while completely hidden. A combat marksman or sharpshooter is someone who supports their team by taking out targets with accurate fire while in battle. Most video games don't really have a sniper role per se.

I haven't used them much, but maybe a tactical assault rifle is closer to a marksman weapon? Doesn't it have longer range, more damage and fire semi-auto?

Well, I wanted to respond to your post at-length but the forum thought I was using too many quotes, so I'll be more succinct. Probably better for everyone this way.

First, I'd like to say that I don't believe "realism" when dealing with clearly science fiction material is a valid reason for this to be any particular way.

...

So, in short, I'd really like it if you could rewrite your opposition to my suggestions without referring to "realism", or the notion of how snipers "should be", or other points along those lines. Do you really believe snipers are fine from a purely gameplay perspective? Do you think their power is in-line with their ease-of-use? Do they make the game more enjoyable for people overall?

its surprising to hear someone say snipers have it easy on mice.

Speaking of special equipment, though, why not do that? Why not have a sensor that can be deployed which eventually locates snipers on the map? It can look for players that stay still for too long. Or how about a deployable shield that is weak or ineffective against close-range weapons but repels sniper fire great?

Don't nerf the sniper any more than is necessary to bring it in line with realism. Make a better counter to it, as a galactic supercorporation would!

I'm just as annoyed as anyone else when I die without warning or explanation and see my name to the right of some sniper rifle. But if that suddenly went away, a little voice in my head would start asking, "Why does this never happen?" It's part of the reality of the game. Same thing goes for the kind of nerfs being discussed. I'd wonder why nobody bothered to build a better rifle.

I have to say I am genuinely pretty surprised that there hasn't been more of an outcry about sniping. Maybe once the hit detection is fixed, and you guys get to see what we're really capable of...

Well, it could be that only the Basic tier of sniper rifles might need toning down. As I said, I'm okay with someone using expensive gear fighting someone using militia stuff being able to flatten them in one hit. The stuff you buy should remain worth the cost. But Basic sniper rifles one-shotting Basic dropsuits with body shots? Not a fan of that.

Most 'over-powered' weapons/vehicles problems I've heard of can easily be countered with teamwork.

I'd say not easily, no, but even if that were true, is that a good thing?

Should a sniper require coordinated people to effectively dislodge from some crevice in some corner of the map?

But what are we trading for the benefit of being so demanding for people to deal with?

This, really, is the problem. We're getting all these massive perks -- firepower and safety, low ISK and SP demands -- for free. We're not laying anything on the line, unlike someone in a tank or whatever. There is no great loss even if someone, your coordinated team of enemies, manages to kill you. Few thousand ISK down, but how many people have you killed? How many more will you kill before another team is mustered to deal with you? We're paying dimes and we get to be gods.

If a sniper takes you down, tell your team's sniper(s) and they will look for him and take him out. Sounds easy enough to me.

Quite frankly, yes. Part of a sniper's job is to find a relatively safe place from which to report enemy movement and provide cover for his team. Those who just shoot at random targets attract attention and get themselves killed. And teamwork is an important part of success in Dust. When the game launches, people who refuse to be part of a team will have trouble finding work.

Fair enough. But, instead of reducing a weapon's effectiveness, why not make the weapon more expensive? That's what they did with HAVs and dropships, and now you see a lot less of them on the battlefield. Then when incompetent snipers keep getting killed by competent players, they'll move on to the next fad.
I would like to add that most of your argument hangs on the assumption that everyone finds sniping (especially with a mouse) to be as easy as you do. From my experience this does not seem to be the case. Granted, I don't know what equipment they use, but most of the snipers I encounter range from average to mediocre. The lack of a flood of expert marksmen indicates that a crappy sniper is a crappy sniper, regardless of the controls they use.

And oh my god did I kill so many snipers. Most of the idiots stand ON TOP of things. ON TOP!