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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
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Posted - 2012.08.12 18:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
this guy found CCP basically answering all the QQ people have with tanks. you dont think CCP talks to us or answers our cries? its because they already have this stuff that noone looks at.
take a look and then look at the next powerpoint page as well.
hint: its titled, "It's not all about you."
edit: credit goes to Iceyburnz for finding this vid and putting the link at the appropriate time. |
Fatalistically
0
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Posted - 2012.08.12 18:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Awesome information! |
STB-TedNugent EV
159
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
awesome stuff!!!! |
Mike Gunnzito
111
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Not saying anything about whether or not HAVs need to be nerfed.
Just pay attention to what he says. "you become quite vulnerable in a choke point"
Based on a few of the maps that we've seen thus far (between this build and last build) There aren't too many choke points for AV guys to use to kill a leveled up HAV. Actually there are hardly any... and as any good and experienced HAV guy will tell you, you have to make a mistake, or literally have several AV guys chasing after you to kill you. Not that a HAV guy can't be killed, but it takes 4-5 AV guys to kill one good HAV. (even with a couple of them using adv or proto gear) It's too easy for them to run off and repair shields/armor after tanking a couple blasts.
Balance does have to come into question when it takes over a third of a team to kill one guy. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 19:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mike Gunnzito wrote:Not saying anything about whether or not HAVs need to be nerfed.
Just pay attention to what he says. "you become quite vulnerable in a choke point"
Based on a few of the maps that we've seen thus far (between this build and last build) There aren't too many choke points for AV guys to use to kill a leveled up HAV. Actually there are hardly any... and as any good and experienced HAV guy will tell you, you have to make a mistake, or literally have several AV guys chasing after you to kill you. Not that a HAV guy can't be killed, but it takes 4-5 AV guys to kill one good HAV. It's too easy for them to run off and repair shields/armor after tanking a couple blasts.
trust me, there are plenty of choke points, which you will have to go into if you want to really help your team.
also, you dont need a choke point if you can just use a webifier on a tank and stop it anyway. Stop the tank, turn off its guns, make money. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
interesting how none of the people complaining about tanks are saying anything in this thread..... |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mike Gunnzito wrote:Not saying anything about whether or not HAVs need to be nerfed.
Just pay attention to what he says. "you become quite vulnerable in a choke point"
Based on a few of the maps that we've seen thus far (between this build and last build) There aren't too many choke points for AV guys to use to kill a leveled up HAV. Actually there are hardly any... and as any good and experienced HAV guy will tell you, you have to make a mistake, or literally have several AV guys chasing after you to kill you. Not that a HAV guy can't be killed, but it takes 4-5 AV guys to kill one good HAV. (even with a couple of them using adv or proto gear) It's too easy for them to run off and repair shields/armor after tanking a couple blasts.
Balance does have to come into question when it takes over a third of a team to kill one guy.
Just pay attention to what he says. Something something webifiers. Based on a few of the items that we've seen thus far, there aren't too many webifiers for anyone to use in DUST 514.
In fact there aren't any. At all.
So balance does have to come in to question when... not everything is... ah never mind. |
Iceyburnz
316
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Likes for me all round!!
I know I know I am totally awesome.
Its a shame my gun skills don't match my google-fu
EDIT: That proof or stfu thing is a little out of context too |
Degren Cthulhu
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.08.12 19:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
thats because if they did watch the vid they would hav to admit that tanks are working as intended, and no i dont use tanks. besides even if they impliment cap, cap warfare, neuts, webifiers, tracking disruptors basically anything that will bring a tank to its knees that isnt a AR they wont use it anyway and still say its op |
Maken Tosch
263
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aighun wrote:Mike Gunnzito wrote:Not saying anything about whether or not HAVs need to be nerfed.
Just pay attention to what he says. "you become quite vulnerable in a choke point"
Based on a few of the maps that we've seen thus far (between this build and last build) There aren't too many choke points for AV guys to use to kill a leveled up HAV. Actually there are hardly any... and as any good and experienced HAV guy will tell you, you have to make a mistake, or literally have several AV guys chasing after you to kill you. Not that a HAV guy can't be killed, but it takes 4-5 AV guys to kill one good HAV. (even with a couple of them using adv or proto gear) It's too easy for them to run off and repair shields/armor after tanking a couple blasts.
Balance does have to come into question when it takes over a third of a team to kill one guy. Just pay attention to what he says. Something something webifiers. Boased on a few of the items that we've seen thus far, there aren't too many webifiers for anyone to use in DUST 514. In fact there aren't any. At all.So balance does have to come in to question when... not everything is... ah never mind.
Not yet. CCP said they will add it later on. Don't you ever keep up with the news? |
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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 20:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Degren Cthulhu wrote:thats because if they did watch the vid they would hav to admit that tanks are working as intended, and no i dont use tanks. besides even if they impliment cap, cap warfare, neuts, webifiers, tracking disruptors basically anything that will bring a tank to its knees that isnt a AR they wont use it anyway and still say its op
yeah, well the problem is partly their immense pride in their skillz, but the other part is that they simply dont like ground armor part of the game. They dont realize tho that the game isnt gonna change to fit their personal desires, its gonna be what CCP wants.
Based on the CCP video, i think its pretty clear what CCP wants. |
Shadoe Wolf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
That was a nice vid!!! Loved how they focused on teamwork! If you don't have that, you're pretty much screwed. Doesn't sound like they will be changing much, if any, of the tanks designs. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 20:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Shadoe Wolf wrote:That was a nice vid!!! Loved how they focused on teamwork! If you don't have that, you're pretty much screwed. Doesn't sound like they will be changing much, if any, of the tanks designs.
is it an appropriate time to claim victory over proto and his ilk? lol jk
btw, if anyone didnt understand, that was a JOKE
im not one to say i told you so, especially since this could all change to benefit those guys at release anyway.
It's just tough talking to people sometimes when they argue against stuff like this which is already officially backed by CCP and they have never seen anything like these vids and wonder why we're pulling these "facts" out of our asses. |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
Not yet. CCP said they will add it later on. Don't you ever keep up with the news?
That was my point. Everyone keeps trying to "balance" the game when all the pieces aren't on the board. And we don't even have more than a few scraps of the board. And the devs are months and months ahead of everyone here on forums.
From that vid I gather that all the "tanks are OP" good times that we are having on the forum today was something they went through back in February...
Be that as it may, the Plateau map is tank heaven. It is a map designed to favor vehicles. This build is the "all your love are belong to tank" build. Other maps might not favor tanks, so much.
And even then, when there are thousands of maps, when the game has been in full release for months, if not years, when all the items are available and integration with EVE is as integrated as it is going to get, yes even then the discussion will continue ad infinitum. That is gaming fandom at its core.
There's a guy that started listening to sports radio at work (start of the football season) and there has been some coverage of the Lakers acquisition of Dwight Howard and it is the same old crap. One guy comes on for his show and launches into a valiant defense of the Lakers prowess and claims the Lakers deserve to win because they are winners. The next commentator comes on and launches into a passionate monologue on the discrepancies that seem to create a permanent underclass of teams that will never have a shot at the NBA title and a permanent overclass of teams that will always have a shot at a championship and claims the situation must be changed, now, for the good of the fans, the players, and the sport of basketball. Basketball has been around how long? And the NBA still can't get the balance right. Stupid balance. |
Maken Tosch
263
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Shadoe Wolf wrote:That was a nice vid!!! Loved how they focused on teamwork! If you don't have that, you're pretty much screwed. Doesn't sound like they will be changing much, if any, of the tanks designs. is it an appropriate time to claim victory over proto and his ilk? lol jk btw, if anyone didnt understand, that was a JOKE im not one to say i told you so, especially since this could all change to benefit those guys at release anyway. It's just tough talking to people sometimes when they argue against stuff like this which is already officially backed by CCP and they have never seen anything like these vids and wonder why we're pulling these "facts" out of our asses.
That's because a large number of players don't usually do their homework. This is true for both console and PC players alike. It is not clear as to why this is case. One veteran Eve player (Capsuleer A) encountered another veteran (Capsuleer B) who has played Eve Online for a few years already and is a career miner.
Capsuleer B was talking about his mining skills until Capsuleer A asked what mining crystals Capsuleer B uses. Capsuleer B responds with "mining crystals?"
Please note that I am paraphrasing here because this was mentioned on the Eve forums a few months ago and I can't seem to find it on search. But it did happen.
Then there is the Hulkageddon event which has been active for five straight years and there are still veterans who never heard of it because they don't seem to do their research on what is really happening outside the systems they are mining in.
===My Point===
My point here is that if these kind of players exist in Eve where they willfully live in ignorance, then no doubt other games have a similar problem. It's kind of like something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le_MWgYPoXg&feature=player_detailpage#t=745s
Notice the part where the Vogon was telling everyone on Earth that the inhabitants shouldn't be fretting over their own destruction because the news of the coming destructing was already posted on some galactic bulletin board for some time already. |
Stupid Drunk1
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Soundwave stated "I don't like balance." My friends first impression was: "You crazy Icelander, have you never played Eve?" But when I started thinking about what he said afterwards, how balance makes a game un-fun.
If we were to talk about "balance" in the way he seems to define it, the game would be very un-fun.
Should an Apocalypse and Megathron be able to orbit each other at 50 clicks, shooting each other with their respective racial guns, and die at the same time? Of course not! While that is "balanced," that is certainly not fun.
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Alshadow
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
71
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
ok for people comlaining about tanks needing multiple av guys to kill... just think for a second, have u have ever seen ONE man in a tank demoshing everyone? no. he always has gunners..... 2 gunners and a driver so thats 3 people, if u want ONE av guy to kill tanks than he would be OP cause he wouild be beating people 3 to 1 |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.08.12 21:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
yeah I don't think everything needs to be balanced either, but everything does need vulnerability.
Tanks can get screwed in a bottleneck or when overcome something more agile than it. Or simply not knowing where it's getting hit from and the analysis paralysis sets in and it sits there taking a beating while spinning around trying to ID the source, and often dies in the process.
Tanks that have to constantly run and hide are drastically less efficient for many things as well. They might not be dead, but you've shut down their game.
Tanks should be scary and dangerous, they're freaking tanks. And at first glance they look unbeatable.. but they have weaknesses now, I've blown up a bunch this afternoon, and they definitely will when infantry can carry effective AV grenades, and doubly so when webbers come into play.
I hate the lack of mobility tanks have as they are now.. I can't imagine them gettin webbed and force-fed AV munitions. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.08.12 21:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:interesting how none of the people complaining about tanks are saying anything in this thread..... Arguing with hard evidence is HARD. |
STB-TedNugent EV
159
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Posted - 2012.08.12 21:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
As for the plateaus being a tank map. I want to disagree. Correct me if i'm wrong. I see it like this you only have like a few places to actually rep your shield/armor without being shot from overhead. The map for the most part is open from above. That gives dropship/forge guns from buildings/other tanks more of an advantage to shoot at you. You can't shoot straight up so that means dropship gunners can rain down on you and if they are good enough you will not get the shot on them. Personel on top of building good luck hitting them unless you get lucky and see your cursor turn red if you actually can get it on him. Dropships on top of buildings easier target because they are big. As for tank vs tank its easy to get to a position to fall behind the tank you are engaging and get the easy kill. As mentioned before he has to turn around when he is being shot from behind. In most cases its the tank that gets the first shot off thats going to get the kill. Whether or not you have smart enough turret men to realize a tank is shooting at you or if you even have turret men at all. Like mentioned before it's a tank it is supposed to be dangerous. Think of real warfare tanks are built to withstand claymores, IED's, grenades and whatnot. They are built to put out massive ammounts of damage. Tank is OP because a tank is OP. Props to CCP. Tanks are also easily taken down with proper team work. As in an earlier match me and a new recruit and another guy put together a plan on the fly to take down an enemy tank. Two of us pulled out our prototype forge guns and one called in a drop ship. The drop ship distracted the tank(that had been destroying our team, due to lack of AV fits) while me and my partner got into position with our protoforge guns. Four or five shots later tank goes boom. Tanks are not invinsible you just have to work together to destroy them. So I say lay off the complaints and turn on your mics and work as a freaking squad and do work. |
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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 22:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
STB-TedNugent EV wrote:As for the plateaus being a tank map. I want to disagree. Correct me if i'm wrong. I see it like this you only have like a few places to actually rep your shield/armor without being shot from overhead. The map for the most part is open from above. That gives dropship/forge guns from buildings/other tanks more of an advantage to shoot at you. You can't shoot straight up so that means dropship gunners can rain down on you and if they are good enough you will not get the shot on them. Personel on top of building good luck hitting them unless you get lucky and see your cursor turn red if you actually can get it on him. Dropships on top of buildings easier target because they are big. As for tank vs tank its easy to get to a position to fall behind the tank you are engaging and get the easy kill. As mentioned before he has to turn around when he is being shot from behind. In most cases its the tank that gets the first shot off thats going to get the kill. Whether or not you have smart enough turret men to realize a tank is shooting at you or if you even have turret men at all. Like mentioned before it's a tank it is supposed to be dangerous. Think of real warfare tanks are built to withstand claymores, IED's, grenades and whatnot. They are built to put out massive ammounts of damage. Tank is OP because a tank is OP. Props to CCP. Tanks are also easily taken down with proper team work. As in an earlier match me and a new recruit and another guy put together a plan on the fly to take down an enemy tank. Two of us pulled out our prototype forge guns and one called in a drop ship. The drop ship distracted the tank(that had been destroying our team, due to lack of AV fits) while me and my partner got into position with our protoforge guns. Four or five shots later tank goes boom. Tanks are not invinsible you just have to work together to destroy them. So I say lay off the complaints and turn on your mics and work as a freaking squad and do work.
/slow clap building into a fast loud clap |
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 22:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
STB-TedNugent EV wrote:As for the plateaus being a tank map. I want to disagree...
I am going on the assumption that we are playing on a "large installation" and compared to "Communications" or "Biomass" (medium installations) the map seems to be designed with vehicles in mind.
I was of course exaggerating when I called it tank heaven. Depends on the particular game. But I do think this map is more conducive to vehicular warfare than skirmish was trying to capture the A,B, and C objectives at communications or biomass. |
Vaas Edi
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
10
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Posted - 2012.08.12 22:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
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Posted - 2012.08.12 22:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
plateaus probs will not ever be played the same again in the next build since we are going to be using the map generator which should give us some interesting battlefields.....
im not sure, but the only time i think you will ever play on the same exact map is when your constantly fighting over a certain district. there is supposedly a stupidly diverse amount of maps because of the way the generator works. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
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Posted - 2012.08.12 23:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
not letting this go until the anti-tank guys have seen this |
Elrick Mercer
23
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Posted - 2012.08.12 23:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Funny thing is people have already said they have 4 or 5 guys trying to take down one tank and they fail. Who says we didn't do things like this in the any other game that has vehicle combat? The main problem with tanks is they can self rep. Take away self rep and watch the threads go away! We understand teamwork is needed and to assume we want otherwise is stupid. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
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Posted - 2012.08.13 00:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
based on your post i can only assume you didnt watch the link.
if you cant pop a marauder with 4-5 AV guys, your doing it wrong.
OR......
maybe you came across one of the fabled but probably just a fairy tale good drivers?
no one complains about guys who are good with an AR but once someone who knows what they are doing gets into a tank, the game's broken. Just watch the vid and you can see CCP basically saying, "Working as intended." |
Elrick Mercer
23
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Posted - 2012.08.13 00:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:based on your post i can only assume you didnt watch the link.
if you cant pop a marauder with 4-5 AV guys, your doing it wrong.
OR......
maybe you came across one of the fabled but probably just a fairy tale good drivers?
no one complains about guys who are good with an AR but once someone who knows what they are doing gets into a tank, the game's broken. Just watch the vid and you can see CCP basically saying, "Working as intended."
Thanks for making an ass of you and me by assuming I didn't watch the video. Just because they are working as intended by CCP's standards don't make it right!
Vehicles that can can rep each other is a broken mechanic by the way... |
freelancer spark
0
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Posted - 2012.08.13 00:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Im a top tank user on my other character and I find that a few forge guns will take my tank dow stats are 2560 shild 5460hp armor armor repair sheild repair lvl 4 railgun lvl 4 turrents even with this I get taken down if im not careful, but it not that they should be nurft but more expensive to keep player more ataced to there tanks, the more they lose, the more worse they well play, the more mistake they well make |
gangsta nachos
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
377
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Posted - 2012.08.13 00:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sounds like they said in the video that tanks are overpowered and they arent going to fix them. But we shall see how the webifiers work for taking them down. |
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