I see it beat shotguns easily for a sidearm

Ps shotguns of the same tier

I can beat Shotguns when I bring my SMG.

And I can beat SMGs when I bring my Shotgun.

And I can be beaten by people using both weapons regardless of which one I bring.

Shotgun works differently, not better or worse, but it's less suited to being a sidearm. SMGs are fine.

Why would an sg be less suited to be a secondary. Relatively low ammo and low rof sounds a lot like a scrambler

Until you consider the multi-target possibilities and less reliance on fine aim for damage, and I'm pretty sure the damage potential is higher with the Shotgun.

It loses out on effective range and reload spead
Also the targets would have to be standing less than a foot away with each other

SMG's are fine as a side arm, however it might be nice to see higher powered or somehow upgraded versions as primary weapons.

You mean AR's? :P

You mean AR's? :P

No, I don't. I mean something like a P90 vs a MAC10.

Edit: AR's don't have the RoF like SMG's do, they aren't CQC weapons.

What do you think?

Those are both smgs

Yes they are.. But a P90 is much more powerful than a MAC10. That's like saying a Thomson and and M16 are both Assault rifles, while it may be true, they are in a much different class.

Wikipedia can tell you how wrong you are. The thompson is an smg and the mac fires a larger round. Did you use cod stats for research?

The Thompson is classified as an SMG? Thats news to me. And as far as I'm aware, the MAC10 is a single-hand weapon, where as the P90 is a shouldered weapon, I think accuracy between the two might be, just slightly... different.

And what "stats" did I list? I don't recall giving out any numbers. I'm making my claims on information I have heard, read, and can manage to remember. My memory is a PoS so excuse me if I get some things wrong. No need to think I'm a "CoD kiddie", I'm not about to confuse anything with CoD, that's just a bunch of BS thrown into a video game, and re-released every year with a new title and cover art... no thanks.

Pistols are also one handed but are meant to be fired with both and the mac has a stock so it can also be considered shouldered

LMAO you must be joking.....do you even know why or what the history of a thompson sub machine gun is? LMAO it fires pistol rounds not rifle rounds .45acp pistol rounds lol

Hmm, well, I haven't seen a MAC10 with a stock before, but I'm sure you see my point. Just because to weapons have the same label, doesn't make them equals.

Hmm, well, I haven't seen a MAC10 with a stock before, but I'm sure you see my point. Just because to weapons have the same label, doesn't make them equals.

Read the rest of the thread before you start quoting. I understand when the thread is 5 pages or longer, you don't want to look for the reply, but seriously, if you had read the first post on page 2 you would've seen a response clarifying that I was unaware the Thompson is classified as an SMG.

I do and the stock retracts so that explains why you didn't know

ZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzz ill point out whatever detail i choose to in your post it so happens i picked the one thats usually common knowledge to most 2 amendment americans but hey not all of us right?