I can beat Shotguns when I bring my SMG.

And I can beat SMGs when I bring my Shotgun.

And I can be beaten by people using both weapons regardless of which one I bring.

Shotgun works differently, not better or worse, but it's less suited to being a sidearm. SMGs are fine.

Until you consider the multi-target possibilities and less reliance on fine aim for damage, and I'm pretty sure the damage potential is higher with the Shotgun.

You mean AR's? :P

No, I don't. I mean something like a P90 vs a MAC10.

Edit: AR's don't have the RoF like SMG's do, they aren't CQC weapons.

Yes they are.. But a P90 is much more powerful than a MAC10. That's like saying a Thomson and and M16 are both Assault rifles, while it may be true, they are in a much different class.

Hmm, well, I haven't seen a MAC10 with a stock before, but I'm sure you see my point. Just because to weapons have the same label, doesn't make them equals.

I think this link is relevant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Sub_Machine_Carbine

After reading the suggestion to Wiki things, I went through Wikipedia's list of SMGs. I'm openly willing to admit I don't know a lot about guns, and didn't bother to read much of that article because I don't care a whole lot about real-world guns in general. A design like that which acts as a high-RoF, CQC focused alternative to ARs would work in DUST though. It's officially, according to the creators, a "Submachine Carbine" to differentiate it from other SMGs. Compare the size to the H&K MP7 if you want to see the difference in size (although stopping power might be another matter - like I said, never read the article).

But if you want a real reason why SMGs shouldn't be primary weapons and shotguns should, here's one.

I can use a Militia Shotgun against an Advanced Heavy and have them dead before I have to reload. Against the same Heavy with a Militia SMG that has more SPs invested into it, and specifically has a 25% damage bonus that the Shotgun doesn't get, I have to reload at least once before I can get the kill, even when I'm staying close enough to land every hit.

At the moment, the whole range of ARs is well-suited to mid-range combat and decent at long-range, but with a focus on precision fire rather than volume of fire, and the whole range of SMGs are very limited in effective range with a focus on insane RoF and CQC viability. Would be nice to have some kind of middle ground - a high-RoF full-automatic primary weapon with CQC and mid-range capabilities, but NOT viable at long-range. Whether they add a new class of weapon (SMC = Submachine Carbine = heavy SMG) or a high-RoF low-accuracy AR that's less viable for long range, I don't care, but it's a gap that I'd quite like to see filled as well.

Retracts? Into the gun..? That thing is tiny, how could it hold a stock in there? lmao


I'm all for the 2nd Amendment, and if it gets repealed you can bet your ass I will find myself an illegal fire arm. However I am not old enough to carry a weapon legally, so I have not looked into any weaponry information. And I'm not really that interested in stocking up on high powered weaponry, or researching it in general. I would rather just be able to carry a pistol around.

Not all of us want to have an M16 or something of the like in our possession, or even care to do much research beyond what we pick up from those who do know the information.

i have never been killed by the scrabler pistol as everyone uses a sub machine gun as a secondary, that i have come across. it's weird when many people use a secondary weapon (the smg) as there primary. if it was a primary it would need a slight increase in range. i personally find it very weird that the smg is a seconday , im assuming there will be 4 pistols at release for each faction. wich i wouldnt use , why use a single shot pistol when i could have another machine gun.

You're probably right. Thanks for the correction.

And just to avoid misunderstandings, no, I'm not being sarcastic.

P90 has a higher velocity, due to the 9mm round and longer barrel. And you're an idiot. He was comparing Mac and P90. Thompson uses a .45 round, which is larger than a 9mm. You had no thoughts flowing, and your argument is invalid. Your invalidity is bad and you should feel bad.

.45 round fires much slower than a 9mm, so it only hits with a thud, like a punch. The 9mm on the other hand fires at a much higher velocity, and can penetrate through multiple objects, so you could kill multiple people with one shot. The mac fires a 9mm, the P90 fires a 9mm, and the Thompson fires a .45 ACP. The biggest round has a different purpose. Shut up and take your invalidity elsewhere.

Do your research next time, m'kay?

sigh......first of all, you just flamed him when you were just as bad....

9mm parabellum isnt penetrating multiple layers of anything..... in fact there are problems with a 9mm cause it is too weak and takes multiple shots to kill sometimes...

.45 ACP hits much harder than 9mm, and even though it has a slower velocity, it is in every way a superior round, except for recoil.

the P90 basically fires a special high velocity 9mm round (well basically an armor piercing 9mm round), very different from 9mm parabellum. actual size is 5.7x28mm

i speak from actual experience with these rounds and not from the stats page of COD or BF.

edit: to the above post, the FN 5.7x28mm round for the FN P90 actually was made for the purpose of being better than the 9mm parabellum. Better terminal ballistics for piercing body armor and certainly isnt any less lethal...

Silly Rabbit Wikipedia is edited by kids!

well, the only thing i saw was you saying the FN 5.7x28mm having less stopping power than 9mm...while it does have a little less actual force, and by that i mean a minimal amount, the p90 cartridge is basically a rifle round, not a pistol round. The terminal ballistics because of that make it a superior cartridge and id say the increased penetration make it have more stopping power.....

was being really picky after seeing the idiots above you.

i fire the guns.

PSN: Lurchasaurus

its secret, no one can no my real name tho.....so dont let anyone see.....

i appreciate your knowledge here and your willingness to shoo away the......shenanigans

im an avid gun guy and that really hits a nerve lol. People think they know it all after seeing COD.

I have a real desert eagle, its an imported IMI .41/.44 from back when they still exported the guns and you didnt have to get an American copy.

believe its a 6 in. but i could be wrong, dont know off the top of my head

lol they dont make a 7 in.

my gun is an IMI from like the 70's. the gun statred being made in the US in 95, then briefly ent back to israel under IWI a couple years later. Now its back in the US tho.