DUST Search - Dropship Feedback

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Asno Masamang wrote:

Greetings,

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

2. When the owner is within a certain distance (20 - 30m) OUTSIDE the vehicle and not dead, the driver's seat should be locked out for other players (unless they're already in control of the vehicle).

I agree with your other proposals, but not this one. If the driver if foolish enough to leave their vehicle they deserve to have it stolen. I have stated in multiple threads that support locking the vehicle when it is spawned, but once the drive is in the driver seat it is unlocked until the battle ends or the vehicle is blown up.

In EVE if you get out of your multi-million ISk ship out in space it is fair game for anyone who has the skills to fly it, Dust should work the same way. Now, having said that though I think the gunners should not need any skills at all for the guns / cargo positions.

The opposing team stealing your vehicle is one thing - and they have to hack the vehicle to do it.

Your teammates doing so while you're performing mission-critical actions, or repairing the vehicle they're stealing, is quite different.

If you go too far from the vehicle, then it's reasonable to say you've abandoned it, but if you're sticking with it - even if there's a combination of time limit AND range limit, there should be some protection.

It's easily explained lore-wise too - particularly given the opponent's need to hack your vehicle before they can steal it. You own the vehicle, you have override codes, you can lock it - but when you abandon the vehicle, traveling too far or waiting too long means your codes aren't transmitted, or expire without a direct link (as a security measure), reuiring you to stay in or near the vehicle to maintain control. Building on this idea further, killing a pilot without destroying their vehicle might be useful to enemies with appropriate hacking tools, because they'll be able to steal your override codes and get a bonus to hacking your vehicles.

I'm not going to say the whole suggestion HAS to happen as I've said, but it can be explained within the context of EVE and DUST, and it can be rationalised from a gameplay perspective as well. EVE isn't DUST, and the two games need to work differently in some ways. I think this is one of those ways. Leave your ship in EVE, and anyone - friend or enemy - can take off with it. But there are FAR fewer reasons to abandon ship in EVE than there are to hop out of a vehicle in DUST, and it's MEANT to be more of a risky move to go EVA from your spaceship in a space game than walking around as infantry should be in a first-person shooter.

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Second Cerberus Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2012.07.30 02:11:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not a regular poster on these boards, but I like the game and have been playing the last few weekends. So at the risk of getting flamed, I wanted to put my own experiences out there. I know some have already posted on similar topics, but this is what I'm seeing. 1. I'm pretty agreeable and rarely (if ever) get mad enough to curse out loud while playing a game. However, this weekend I've had 3 dropships stolen out from under me while on the ground for repairs. I pilot the ship to the edge of the map and hop out to repair only to have a gunner move into the pilot seat and take off as I finish repairs. If I'm lucky I wind up at a turret in my own ship. That wouldn't be so bad if on all 3 occasions the new pilot had not taken us straight into a forge gunner or missile installation and ended the ride in under 60 seconds. At this point, I have about $130,000 in each ship so losing one means a profitable match or not. I don't have an answer and maybe CCP is already on point with a solution, but if we weren't in a Beta with relatively easy SP and ISK this problem would be a borderline rage quit. To help this out, infantry that like to ride as dropship gunners, please equip repair tools. They are pretty easy to unlock and will get a lot of goodwill from pilots. 2. Gunners, please take a break every few seconds and sweep your field of view for targets. It's pretty common for a gunner to get fixed on a target half-way across the map and ignore the Swarm launcher or Rail-tank sitting right underneath us or the enemy dropship directly in front of us spraying missiles. I try to provide a stable platform so gunners can easily lead and put multiple shots on target. So if you see me break orbit and start aggressively maneuvering, stop shooting straight down and look around. It frustrating to get raked by concentrated AV without a single return shot. Obviously, more mic'd players and groups will help this problem but technology doesn't make up for poor decision making. Developed pilots/dropships at this point can easily absorb random small-arms fire. Focus on targets that can take us down and then send a couple of missiles at the random Assaults and Scouts. 3. I saw another post on the board where someone said they only boarded ships that had a spawn point. (presumably because that showed the pilot had invested and wasn't a noob). I want to point out that the ships with spawn points (the Eryx for shield players) have less CPU and PG than non-spawn ships. So essentially, I can equip better shields, weapons and equipment on the non-spawn ships. I run the Eryx almost exclusively now since a ship with no gunners is a sitting duck, but I hope people are more open to getting on board a passing ship to at least see what weapons are equipped. If the pilot drives straight into the side of a building or gets stuck in a corner, feel free to bail, but at least be open to hopping on a ship if the pilot lands nearby. Sorry for the length of the post, hope the feedback stays positive and good luck.
Bunny dee Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.07.30 02:18:00 - [2] - Quote I totally agree with you on point 2, from a gunners perspective. There will be no targets then one shows up half way across the map. Its hard not to keep firing till its dead. And as far as the on board CRU, I never spawn into a drop ship. way to many times I have spawned just as the drop ship crashes. Unless the pilot is on voice, then I might make an exception to that rule
Lunar Aphelion Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.30 06:22:00 - [3] - Quote ^^^ I know that feeling. Every single time I spawn in a drop ship the pilot is gone and I can practically hear the computer saying mayday! mayday! we are going down!
RAS Actual Black Tengu Corporation 38	Posted - 2012.07.30 06:42:00 - [4] - Quote +1 well said cerberus
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.07.30 06:50:00 - [5] - Quote That's why when I'm flying a dropship and get unwanted company I send it flying deep into the redzone, jumping off just at the edge. Show those bastards who's the boss.
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.07.30 06:56:00 - [6] - Quote Wouldn't the dropship problem be easily fixed if you got a message saying: "You need lvl 4 dropship pilot to fly this." It would make sense since the pilot has learned these skills over time and a novice wouldn't be able to fly a ship.
Roddy Roddy Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.07.30 09:59:00 - [7] - Quote Some random Joe Schmo shouldn't be able to fly these ships that's for sure. I had a lucky encounter today. I spawned my ship, flew it into enemy territory to capture a node, I hack it immediately and run back to my ship to see a friendly flying away from me. Guess what rolls up? An enemy tank... I hope they fix this. People who put points into piloting respect the duties that it entails. Some Joe Schmo will not.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.07.30 10:02:00 - [8] - Quote I already suggested once that it would be helpful to have the vehicles locked to the driver until he (or she) has succesfully died or requested another vehicle.

CCP Frame Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 351	Posted - 2012.07.30 10:40:00 - [9] - Quote Moved to feedback forum.

Ad ski IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.07.30 10:55:00 - [10] - Quote I have not dealt with the problem of people stealing my stuff on dust but I know the feeling all too well on BF3. I'm not sure if this can be done but maybe add something that stops someone jumping in the pilot seat if the pilot is near by.

Pierced Brosmen jr Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:03:00 - [11] - Quote From the few times I've spawned in a ship with spawn point, a lot of the times I feel like I spawn in a battlefield players personal transport, cause after he has got to where he want to be the pilot jumps out. Hopefully this type of behaviour will be reduced when price levels for ships are increased, but I wouldn't mind seeing some mechanic limiting a pilot from leaving the cocpit in flight unless the ship is badly damaged or on the ground... Ofcourse, this being EVE and people can screw up the day for their team members if they like (and risk suffering the consequences... being kicked from corp etc.)... It's just a bit annoying in open/random matches.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:09:00 - [12] - Quote Multiple threads addressing this in various ways. I think we need a combination of several ideas (I didn't personally suggest any of them in the first instance). 1. Owner of a vehicle can hold triangle and take over the driver's position. 2. When the owner is within a certain distance (20 - 30m) OUTSIDE the vehicle and not dead, the driver's seat should be locked out for other players (unless they're already in control of the vehicle). 3. Without the appropriate vehicle skills, you can't be driver/pilot of the vehicle you're in, even without the owner around. This means that a Dropship/Gunship pilot or HAV/LAV driver will have precedence when claiming the driver's/pilot's seat, but will be free to man the guns and let someone else take over, or to run off and do something else. It also means that you can hop out, patch your vehicle up with a Repair Tool, then hop back in without worrying about losing your vehicle, OR that you can jump out and hack something while your gunners cover you and DON'T steal your ride. On top of all this, it means that if your driver runs off and abandons you, or gets shot, you still have options - as long as you're capable of flying/driving the vehicle for yourself. And it also means that if you're a good driver, and your vehicle's owner is on mic and not so good, you can say "hey, want to let me drive?" and they'll have the option to do so.
Usikava Shawley Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:43:00 - [13] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: Wouldn't the dropship problem be easily fixed if you got a message saying: "You need lvl 4 dropship pilot to fly this." It would make sense since the pilot has learned these skills over time and a novice wouldn't be able to fly a ship. 100% with this! Flying gallente I wasn't so worried about me getting into a deep armor. It was a standard situation and that's why I've got 2 reps on, but flying caldari made me stops for repairs often, as this little extra buffer is saving your life often Second Cerberus wrote: I have about $130,000 in each ship so losing one means a profitable match or not. 154k ISK for gallente daul rep Prometheus here I actually ended up with creating a several fits with different hulls and module cost (and set a cost in the begging of each name) used best only in Ambush, Skirmish is way too random for a worthy bird... Second Cerberus wrote: 3. I saw another post on the board where someone said they only boarded ships that had a spawn point. (presumably because that showed the pilot had invested and wasn't a noob). I want to point out that the ships with spawn points (the Eryx for shield players) have less CPU and PG than non-spawn ships It's a way CCP have choosen you to pay for not equipping Militia CRU but Eryx have it in a soft way now, cause CRU cost 20\160 CPU\PG, If I remeber correctly Eryx looses 30 CPU and 140 PG and shield tank still alows you to fit in a reactor control, Co-Processor or even PDS(more buffer, more PG, faster recharge you know all kind of stuff) still being nanoed... Look at the Prometheus and cry... 25 CPU 165 PG lower then tier 1 you need all your low slots for tanking and there is no doubt you won't fit nano in there... And what you have in exchange? med slot? what I should fit there? Shield Amplifier? And still we are NOT GETTING +15 TEAM SPAWN BONUS like droplinks for logi do. Why should I make a tourist runs for guys that just wanna get this +25 assist bonus and not droping from that passenger spot entire match? And still they can't repair you ship or shoot from this perfect sight spot they are getting. On a corp match, where every one on voice and I can pick them up from any location in matter of seconds under fire or even cover them from bullet fire (or I can even place a droplink to get this damn +15 Bonus) why should I care for getting tier 2? For this little extra buffer? I can fit more buffer with this CPU\PG on a tier 1. So more then agreed with you...
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 915	Posted - 2012.07.30 13:11:00 - [14] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: Wouldn't the dropship problem be easily fixed if you got a message saying: "You need lvl 4 dropship pilot to fly this." It would make sense since the pilot has learned these skills over time and a novice wouldn't be able to fly a ship. This is they way it is in Eve and it should be like there here. Once had a pilot eject from a Myrm during combat and had to have a friend come get it for me :)
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.30 14:14:00 - [15] - Quote Greetings, Garrett Blacknova wrote: 2. When the owner is within a certain distance (20 - 30m) OUTSIDE the vehicle and not dead, the driver's seat should be locked out for other players (unless they're already in control of the vehicle). I agree with your other proposals, but not this one. If the driver if foolish enough to leave their vehicle they deserve to have it stolen. I have stated in multiple threads that support locking the vehicle when it is spawned, but once the drive is in the driver seat it is unlocked until the battle ends or the vehicle is blown up. In EVE if you get out of your multi-million ISk ship out in space it is fair game for anyone who has the skills to fly it, Dust should work the same way. Now, having said that though I think the gunners should not need any skills at all for the guns / cargo positions.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.30 14:31:00 - [16] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Greetings, Garrett Blacknova wrote: 2. When the owner is within a certain distance (20 - 30m) OUTSIDE the vehicle and not dead, the driver's seat should be locked out for other players (unless they're already in control of the vehicle). I agree with your other proposals, but not this one. If the driver if foolish enough to leave their vehicle they deserve to have it stolen. I have stated in multiple threads that support locking the vehicle when it is spawned, but once the drive is in the driver seat it is unlocked until the battle ends or the vehicle is blown up. In EVE if you get out of your multi-million ISk ship out in space it is fair game for anyone who has the skills to fly it, Dust should work the same way. Now, having said that though I think the gunners should not need any skills at all for the guns / cargo positions. The opposing team stealing your vehicle is one thing - and they have to hack the vehicle to do it. Your teammates doing so while you're performing mission-critical actions, or repairing the vehicle they're stealing, is quite different. If you go too far from the vehicle, then it's reasonable to say you've abandoned it, but if you're sticking with it - even if there's a combination of time limit AND range limit, there should be some protection. It's easily explained lore-wise too - particularly given the opponent's need to hack your vehicle before they can steal it. You own the vehicle, you have override codes, you can lock it - but when you abandon the vehicle, traveling too far or waiting too long means your codes aren't transmitted, or expire without a direct link (as a security measure), reuiring you to stay in or near the vehicle to maintain control. Building on this idea further, killing a pilot without destroying their vehicle might be useful to enemies with appropriate hacking tools, because they'll be able to steal your override codes and get a bonus to hacking your vehicles. I'm not going to say the whole suggestion HAS to happen as I've said, but it can be explained within the context of EVE and DUST, and it can be rationalised from a gameplay perspective as well. EVE isn't DUST, and the two games need to work differently in some ways. I think this is one of those ways. Leave your ship in EVE, and anyone - friend or enemy - can take off with it. But there are FAR fewer reasons to abandon ship in EVE than there are to hop out of a vehicle in DUST, and it's MEANT to be more of a risky move to go EVA from your spaceship in a space game than walking around as infantry should be in a first-person shooter.
Chihiro Itto 66	Posted - 2012.07.30 14:44:00 - [17] - Quote The previous discussion(s) re: vehicle theft Garrett refers to are here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=27640&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=27681&find=unread They should be read/scanned before going much further into that area as a lot of points are already discussed in depth in those threads.
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.30 14:49:00 - [18] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Your teammates doing so while you're performing mission-critical actions, or repairing the vehicle they're stealing, is quite different. And right there you hit on a critical point. What is to stop me from spawning in my pure passive dropship, taking two buddies to a couple of special areas on the map, hopping out and shield repping my dropship while my two buddies wreak havoc with my missile turrets. The reason I am against it for issues like this where it becomes a way to exploit the system. As far as I have been able to determine the skills of the driver are what is used for shield / armor stats. Once the driver leaves the vehicle it appears to retain those stats until someone else becomes the driver. So in example above, you are looking at the maximum possible passive shield tank being augmented by a very high rate of active shield transfer.... No too easy to exploit. EDIT: BTW, I am also all for giving the owner of the vehicle a way to forcefully take back the driver's seat.
blqkt2011 RestlessSpirits 25	Posted - 2012.07.30 14:57:00 - [19] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Greetings, Garrett Blacknova wrote: 2. When the owner is within a certain distance (20 - 30m) OUTSIDE the vehicle and not dead, the driver's seat should be locked out for other players (unless they're already in control of the vehicle). I agree with your other proposals, but not this one. If the driver if foolish enough to leave their vehicle they deserve to have it stolen. I have stated in multiple threads that support locking the vehicle when it is spawned, but once the drive is in the driver seat it is unlocked until the battle ends or the vehicle is blown up. In EVE if you get out of your multi-million ISk ship out in space it is fair game for anyone who has the skills to fly it, Dust should work the same way. Now, having said that though I think the gunners should not need any skills at all for the guns / cargo positions. You obviously don't play first person shooters or you just like staying in the vehicle cause it is safer. I personally like the idea of lock codes for the pilot seat because I like playing the game and taking objectives (which is money honey) but they need to come up with a way to keep our vehicles safe from theives and the like. If i'm dead, sure take my ship and enjoy my hard earned ISK -- but if i'm alive -- IT'S MINE - GET YOUR OWN !!! Example : If your in your car and go into a store than you take your keys. If someone else is in your car that you are giving a ride to and you go into a store - you take your keys. If a friend is riding with you - he comes into the store with you, but you still take your keys. Get the hint yet ???
Asno Masamang Odd Shadows Inc 122	Posted - 2012.07.30 15:02:00 - [20] - Quote blqkt2011 wrote: [quote=Asno Masamang]I personally like the idea of lock codes for the pilot seat because I like playing the game and taking objectives (which is money honey) but they need to come up with a way to keep our vehicles safe from theives and the like. I have had lots of vehicles stolen by teammates. It has happened so often, I have stopped putting mobile CRU's in my half million ISK dropships. I am well aware of the issue and have been heavily affected by it... However I am also well aware of the ways it can be abused and exploited if done as you and others are suggesting. Instead I prefer that the problem actually be fixed, which vehicle locking will not do.

Nu11u5 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 73	Posted - 2012.07.30 15:17:00 - [21] - Quote My Dropship wishlist: Forced voice comms - everyone riding should hear the pilot. Make rocket turrets like swarm launchers, blasters w/ larger splash (balance - goes for all turrets). Passenger Eject module/function - forces non-gunners to eject with inertial dampeners on, perhaps at a faster falling rate for rapid deployment or bailout. Countermeasures like chaft/flares/jamming to deal with missiles, etc. Passengers can shoot light weapons out windows (or too OP?).
Eskel Bondfree 27	Posted - 2012.07.30 17:00:00 - [22] - Quote You all should keep in mind that there will be a pilot dropsuit in the finished game. That alone will stop most of your team mates from stealing a dropship, because few people will be running around in a pilot suit without an aircraft of their own, not to mention most people won't have it even trained. Ground vehicles, however, are a different matter.
EVICER 63	Posted - 2012.07.30 21:43:00 - [23] - Quote Bresker Veyne wrote: Wouldn't the dropship problem be easily fixed if you got a message saying: "You need lvl 4 dropship pilot to fly this." It would make sense since the pilot has learned these skills over time and a novice wouldn't be able to fly a ship. Ive heard of this before but I still think that why would you not have your own "key"to your dropship.DNA recognition.The one person I want to fly my dropship is me...Im the one that is invested not the other guy...this should go for all vehicles.Not just DS. Enemy players could hack it but that would be like hotwiring a car.Hey i might steel one who knows.My option changes little.
EVICER 63	Posted - 2012.07.30 21:46:00 - [24] - Quote Nu11u5 wrote: My Dropship wishlist: Forced voice comms - everyone riding should hear the pilot. Make rocket turrets like swarm launchers, blasters w/ larger splash (balance - goes for all turrets). Passenger Eject module/function - forces non-gunners to eject with inertial dampeners on, perhaps at a faster falling rate for rapid deployment or bailout. Countermeasures like chaft/flares/jamming to deal with missiles, etc. Passengers can shoot light weapons out windows (or too OP?). I am a DS pilot I say no firing out the dropship....no imagine 4 forge gunners as passengers.Or RE throwers...nah i say nay.
Leovarian L Lavitz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 278	Posted - 2012.07.30 21:53:00 - [25] - Quote Vehicle skills are a MUST for piloting any vehicle, someone who hasn't invested the skills for a vehicle should not be able to drive the darned thing. >.<
EVICER 63	Posted - 2012.07.30 21:54:00 - [26] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Asno Masamang wrote: Greetings, Garrett Blacknova wrote: 2. When the owner is within a certain distance (20 - 30m) OUTSIDE the vehicle and not dead, the driver's seat should be locked out for other players (unless they're already in control of the vehicle). I agree with your other proposals, but not this one. If the driver if foolish enough to leave their vehicle they deserve to have it stolen. I have stated in multiple threads that support locking the vehicle when it is spawned, but once the drive is in the driver seat it is unlocked until the battle ends or the vehicle is blown up. In EVE if you get out of your multi-million ISk ship out in space it is fair game for anyone who has the skills to fly it, Dust should work the same way. Now, having said that though I think the gunners should not need any skills at all for the guns / cargo positions. The opposing team stealing your vehicle is one thing - and they have to hack the vehicle to do it. Your teammates doing so while you're performing mission-critical actions, or repairing the vehicle they're stealing, is quite different. If you go too far from the vehicle, then it's reasonable to say you've abandoned it, but if you're sticking with it - even if there's a combination of time limit AND range limit, there should be some protection. It's easily explained lore-wise too - particularly given the opponent's need to hack your vehicle before they can steal it. You own the vehicle, you have override codes, you can lock it - but when you abandon the vehicle, traveling too far or waiting too long means your codes aren't transmitted, or expire without a direct link (as a security measure), reuiring you to stay in or near the vehicle to maintain control. Building on this idea further, killing a pilot without destroying their vehicle might be useful to enemies with appropriate hacking tools, because they'll be able to steal your override codes and get a bonus to hacking your vehicles. I'm not going to say the whole suggestion HAS to happen as I've said, but it can be explained within the context of EVE and DUST, and it can be rationalised from a gameplay perspective as well. EVE isn't DUST, and the two games need to work differently in some ways. I think this is one of those ways. Leave your ship in EVE, and anyone - friend or enemy - can take off with it. But there are FAR fewer reasons to abandon ship in EVE than there are to hop out of a vehicle in DUST, and it's MEANT to be more of a risky move to go EVA from your spaceship in a space game than walking around as infantry should be in a first-person shooter. GARRET: ^AGREED^ plus 1
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.31 05:37:00 - [27] - Quote Asno Masamang wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Your teammates doing so while you're performing mission-critical actions, or repairing the vehicle they're stealing, is quite different. And right there you hit on a critical point. What is to stop me from spawning in my pure passive dropship, taking two buddies to a couple of special areas on the map, hopping out and shield repping my dropship while my two buddies wreak havoc with my missile turrets. The reason I am against it for issues like this where it becomes a way to exploit the system. As far as I have been able to determine the skills of the driver are what is used for shield / armor stats. Once the driver leaves the vehicle it appears to retain those stats until someone else becomes the driver. So in example above, you are looking at the maximum possible passive shield tank being augmented by a very high rate of active shield transfer.... No too easy to exploit. EDIT: BTW, I am also all for giving the owner of the vehicle a way to forcefully take back the driver's seat. If they're your "buddies" and you're doing this, what's to stop you from only picking up "buddies" who won't be stealing the ship anyway? How is removing the ability for a teammate to steal the ship going to make this less of an exploit?
Velvet Overkill 104	Posted - 2012.07.31 06:53:00 - [28] - Quote +1 on the OP and most of the thread
RedBleach 50	Posted - 2012.08.01 06:13:00 - [29] - Quote I have not read the Garret Threads yet so this might be in there, but this just came to me. Non-gunners should be able to repair while in the ship... and be able to fire all weapons Several forge cannons from a harrier WOHOO
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.08.01 07:17:00 - [30] - Quote RedBleach wrote: I have not read the Garret Threads yet so this might be in there, but this just came to me. Non-gunners should be able to repair while in the ship... and be able to fire all weapons Several forge cannons from a harrier WOHOO I don't remember where it's been said, but multiple players have said they want to be able to shoot from passenger positions in vehicles. Devs have supposedly (only evidence I know of is people saying it was mentioned in EVE Fanfest) said they intend to include that option in future - no word I can remember seeing about whether it's happening before release or in an expansion.



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