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Deng Xianping
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.07.31 11:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:
I certainly have no problem shooting people
well... :D
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Just Bad wrote:MIDI Maze maybe? That was '87.
There are a few from before then (I think there may even be a couple older than I am), but they were never popular, so meeting someone who played any of them is a bit of a novelty. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
323
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 12:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Forgot to look closer at this one before... Tanksgiving wrote:I've been playing first person shooters for twenty five years. I find that hard to believe... You know Wolfenstein 3D is only 20 years old, right? What were you playing before then?
I was going to point this out too,but I didn't want to pay any attention to someone that completely hijacked this thread and can't respond to the original question that I asked. |
Tanksgiving
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.07.31 12:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Just Bad wrote:MIDI Maze maybe? That was '87. There are a few from before then (I think there may even be a couple older than I am), but they were never popular, so meeting someone who played any of them is a bit of a novelty.
Never popular??
Maze War was a really big deal back in the 80s.
But then you're the same guy who thought id invented the FPS. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2012.07.31 12:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tanksgiving wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Just Bad wrote:MIDI Maze maybe? That was '87. There are a few from before then (I think there may even be a couple older than I am), but they were never popular, so meeting someone who played any of them is a bit of a novelty. Never popular?? Maze War was a really big deal back in the 80s. But then you're the same guy who thought id invented the FPS.
Lets keep thing in perspective though, a "really big deal" in the 80's was probably 10,000 copies. Yes it was one of the first if not the first game with FPS gameplay. Wasn't the point to shoot the other players and escape the maze, emphasis on escpae, not that people would have cared it was probably more fun to shoot. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 12:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
100Mbps of dowload.
10Mbps upload.
Fiber Optical + PS3 Wired.
As for the ping I would need to know where Dust 514 servers are located to provide accurate estimates.
Anyway Dust 514 is unplayable for me even with this internet connection which is the best money can buy in my country...unless you go for a server.
If Dust 514 uses dedicated servers then it has the worst net code I have ever seen.
P.S.
Worth saying that I can play any game online, on any region, and have less leg then Dust 514.
Hell when Sony will bring Gaikai on on PS3/PS4 I will be already able to play Gaikai titles on PS3/PS4 day one. |
Naturi Riclenore
BetaMax.
120
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Posted - 2012.07.31 14:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Darkz azurr wrote:i have 4mb broadband - from England
eu server gave me 41ms average
us server gave me 140ms average
asia server gave me 383ms average I just tested the EU and Asian servers. EU average was 114 ms Asia average was 267 So with my faster DL speed,I got a faster ping. Call me crazy,but I think there's a definite relation to your DL and UL speeds and your ping. It's like having a sports car that has a large motor vs a small motor.Sure you can squeeze out a relatively good amount of horsepower out of a four cylinder,but there's a lot of work and modification to make it that way.All eight cylinder sports cars are made to go fast right out the box.You have to have the motor to put out the horsepower. So in essence,my comparison would be that DSL is like a Volkswagen GTI(4 cylinder smaller motor=slower speed.Lower horsepower=higher ping) ,and Cable internet is like a Corvette(8 cylinder bigger motor=faster speed.Higher horsepower=lower ping).
UMMM..... you got a SLOWER response to the EU server and a FASTER response from the ASIA server. Also, just from the response times posted, they have less lag than you do. There is no relation to your speed and your ping, unless you have an extremely bad connection - which is still not related.
Ping is how long it takes for XYZ device to RESPOND. A typical ping is anywhere between 32 - 64 BYTES. Even a 14.4K fax modem can download that in less than a second. So your speed has very little to do with it.
Here's how it goes in online gaming:
1. Ping. It tells you how much latency (lag) you will have. You want a LOW value for this. The lower the better. You could have a 3 Terrabyte/s DL speed and 1 Tb/s upload, but if you're response to the server is 4000 MS and mine is 5 Mb/s DL with 2 Mb/s UL and a 32 ms response, I win and will have less lag That means you are waiting 4 Seconds (1000 ms = 1 Second) for a response from the server, while I only wait 32 ms (milliseconds). You wait 125x longer to get back the same information.
2. Routing / Traceroute. tells you the path your connection to their servers is going across. This is usefull becasue it tells you how your connection gets to their servers. It's also usefull because if a large number of people are having issues, it might be tied to a single ISP, or a single area, or just you (for isntance if you are using an Internet Proxy service). For instance, ISP's share backbones. Where I live, ALL traffic goes through a hub in the Chicago, IL (USA) area at some point. That internet hub sometimes has problems. When it does, anyone who is going through that hub will have problems. It just depends on if the route your connection takes goes through that hub or not. Which means it's an ISP issue and has to be resolved there (which could be your ISP or the gaming company ISP)
3. DL / UL speeds. If the game is exchanging data at a rate of 100 Kb/s (kilobits), having a 56K modem is not able to deal with that. With modern games of course, there is a lot more information passing between the servers, which is why there is a recommended DL speed. If the minimum required is 3 Mb/s and I have a 1.5 Mb/s connection, I will have lag, even if my ping is less-than 1 ms - cause it is going to take twice as long to download the required information from the server.
Example:
data exchange rate - 200 Kb/s = 25 KB/s (kilobytes)
your connection - 10 Mb/s DL ping response 500 ms = 1.25 MB/s (megabytes)
my connection - 3 Mb/s DL ping response 50 ms = 375 KB/s (kilobytes)
You see how DL speed in this instance has very little effect. Yes, your connection can download it faster, but its only minute. You will see lag, I won't. It's becasue it takes your connection 1/2 second to get a response back from the server - ten times longer than my connection; the data is delayed. You shoot a bullet, wait 1/2 second to say did it hit or not. with my lower response time, I will get updates faster. It also works the other way too; it's how people try and cheat with lag switches. Delay your packets to the server (so it doesn't know where you are), while downloading packets remain fast. So I am delayed knowing your position, but you are updated with mine. it's why many companies now monitor your UL packets as well to detect lag switches.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.31 14:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tanksgiving wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Just Bad wrote:MIDI Maze maybe? That was '87. There are a few from before then (I think there may even be a couple older than I am), but they were never popular, so meeting someone who played any of them is a bit of a novelty. Never popular?? Maze War was a really big deal back in the 80s.
I guess you missed the part of the 80s that I grew up in then. Your loss. Maze War was a big deal in exactly the same way punk rock and the goth scene weren't.
Quote:But then you're the same guy who thought id invented the FPS.
Source? I don't remember that happening... ever... I referenced the first FPS that actually became a big enough name to be remembered a decade later by the mainstream, and it happened to be an id product, but I never said it was first. I was actually curious which game(s) you played before then. |
Tanksgiving
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.07.31 14:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:Tanksgiving wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Just Bad wrote:MIDI Maze maybe? That was '87. There are a few from before then (I think there may even be a couple older than I am), but they were never popular, so meeting someone who played any of them is a bit of a novelty. Never popular?? Maze War was a really big deal back in the 80s. But then you're the same guy who thought id invented the FPS. Lets keep thing in perspective though, a "really big deal" in the 80's was probably 10,000 copies.
It's impossible to estimate since it was freely distributed, but hundreds of thousands of copies existed. Variations of Maze War were developed on a dozen platforms for over a decade. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it wasn't important.
As for perspective, Pitfall!, released in 1982 on the Atari 2600, sold over 4 million cartridges.
The awful Pac-Man port buried with ET? 7 million.
Halo (2001) - 5 million
Gears of War (2006) - 5 million
Uncharted (2007) - 2 million
Little Big Planet (2008) - 3 million
Uncharted 3 (2011) - 4 million
Diablo 3 (2012) - 6 million
Quote:Yes it was one of the first if not the first game with FPS gameplay. Wasn't the point to shoot the other players and escape the maze, emphasis on escpae, not that people would have cared it was probably more fun to shoot.
No. It was networked (and later TCP/IP) multiplayer deathmatch. Emphasis on death. |
Tanksgiving
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I guess you missed the part of the 80s that I grew up in then. Your loss. Maze War was a big deal in exactly the same way punk rock and the goth scene weren't.
Nice try at sarcasm, but your ignorance is telling. Those were both 70s trends turned on their heads and bled to death by capitalism in the proceeding decade.
Growing up in the 80s means what, your daddy bought you an NES?
That's like a kid who cut his teeth on Harry Potter attempting to lecture a lit professor about Brecht.
Tanksgiving wrote:But then you're the same guy who thought id invented the FPS. Garrett Blacknova wrote:Source? I don't remember that happening... ever... I was actually curious which game(s) you played before then.
More BS. Here are your exact words:
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Forgot to look closer at this one before... Tanksgiving wrote:I've been playing first person shooters for twenty five years. I find that hard to believe... You know Wolfenstein 3D is only 20 years old, right?
It should be obvious to anyone reading that you were unaware of first person shooters prior to Wolf 3D. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.31 15:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tanksgiving wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:I guess you missed the part of the 80s that I grew up in then. Your loss. Maze War was a big deal in exactly the same way punk rock and the goth scene weren't. Nice try at sarcasm, but your ignorance is telling. Those were both 70s trends turned on their heads and bled to death by capitalism in the proceeding decade.
And yet the truth behind both concepts, as well as the styles of both music and dress, were still more popular in the 80s than FPS gaming... Which was my point.
Although I guess you forgot to think through the possibility that someone younger than you might actually have a point, and disregarded what I said on that basis alone. |
Tanksgiving
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.07.31 15:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Your point was an uninformed attempt at discrediting someone who's old enough to realize CCP have bitten off more than they can chew.
Next time, do your homework first. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tanksgiving wrote:Your point was an uninformed attempt at discrediting someone who's old enough to realize CCP have bitten off more than they can chew.
Next time, do your homework first.
No, my ACTUAL point (made in the earlier post before this one) was that the devs have already been showing a LOT more improvement from one build to the next than most developers do during beta, so your expectations, while reasonable, may be underestimating what CCP are capable of, and even if you're right, the continuation of iterative development post-release will mean the game continues to improve, unlike most conventional FPS games.
The whole thing about your FPS experience was a side-note taken form a less serious comment, which you blew out of proportion with an overly-agressive response.
But it was fun, wasn't it? |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
I sadly din't see any technical, meaningful improved on the FPS side for Dust 514.
Maybe I'm too exigent but really I don't have that "everything is fine, it just need to be polished" sensation.
Also "conventional FPS" do improve, simply not with expansions like EVE but with sequels.
BF3 is technically better then BF 2; Killzone 2 is technically better then Killzone 1 and IMO still superior to any COD.
There will always be technical improvements deliver under DLC or expansions or new VG entirely.
Gameplay-wise is hard to see meaningful improvements, revolutions.
Halo 1 is the last FPS that really brought gameplay improvements/changes, like it or not.
Halo was 10 years ago the revolution in FPS.
Now it's mroe about consolidating the design and perfect the gampaly but really FPS don't need to be re-invented o...they need new horizons. |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.07.31 17:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
10mb down / 1mb up.
My avarage ping to game servers across several games is around 150ms.
This is enough to make me play on PC without much problems, i still get decent kill ratios and can be competitive on PC shooters.
The last shooter I got was Red Orchestra 2 on the steam sale, runs as a charm and I can see from my results that i am above average in performance, wich is good to see that my connection isnt being a major issue while playing.
In Dust514 several times i shoot point blank on other players and not 1 shot registers from an entire clip, sometimes the target isnt even transverally moving, then I get droped in like 3-4 shots wich is..... fustrating.
p.s. not using militia gear. |
Naturi Riclenore
BetaMax.
120
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ender Storm wrote:10mb down / 1mb up.
My avarage ping to game servers across several games is around 150ms.
This is enough to make me play on PC without much problems, i still get decent kill ratios and can be competitive on PC shooters.
The last shooter I got was Red Orchestra 2 on the steam sale, runs as a charm and I can see from my results that i am above average in performance, wich is good to see that my connection isnt being a major issue while playing.
In Dust514 several times i shoot point blank on other players and not 1 shot registers from an entire clip, sometimes the target isnt even transverally moving, then I get droped in like 3-4 shots wich is..... fustrating.
p.s. not using militia gear.
Hit detection is a known issue right now. Hopefully next build (in August) we will see some better hit detection, but yeah, it is frustrating to shoot point blank and not a single bullet registers. |
John DaMarine
211
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
I'd never even thought of this!!!??!!
It turns out that bouncing dropships, overpowered remote explosives, poor graphics and rampant spawn camping are all down to my sub-par internet connection.
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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
John DaMarine wrote:
I'd never even thought of this!!!??!!
It turns out that bouncing dropships, overpowered remote explosives, poor graphics and rampant spawn camping are all down to my sub-par internet connection.
I wished that too...but my internet is too good to be blamed for that. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think connection speed is no where near as import as them darn Yankees showing up in euro games. I don't see how you can ever get around latency in an FPS. (no problem with Americans, just their ping vs my ping).
Anyone got upload > download?
Someone with up > down would e nice to hear from. I've heard stories in other games that it makes you godly. And I've seen evidence too (instant improvement in KDR).
This is something which should be tested. (effectively your bullets get to the server faster than the bullets go from the server to you in some games. I believe in Dust if that happens both players would die, but I haves crap connection to mess bout with). |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:I think connection speed is no where near as import as them darn Yankees showing up in euro games. I don't see how you can ever get around latency in an FPS. (no problem with Americans, just their ping vs my ping).
Anyone got upload > download?
Someone with up > down would e nice to hear from. I've heard stories in other games that it makes you godly. And I've seen evidence too (instant improvement in KDR).
This is something which should be tested. (effectively your bullets get to the server faster than the bullets go from the server to you in some games. I believe in Dust if that happens both players would die, but I haves crap connection to mess bout with).
I don't believe I have ever seen an advertised upload speed greater then download speed. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist or happen it would just be very unusual I would think. |
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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.31 18:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Are we on P2P, dedicated server, or client/server?
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Draco Dustflier
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.07.31 18:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
frfqq wrote:I have top tier internet and the hit detection in this game is terrible. And anyways the lag is not what is causing people to be disappointed in the beta. The gameplay just sucks (vehicle abuse, spawn exploits, OP / overused classes and weapons, etc).
wepons are only op when the hit detection favors them over others. in my lagless games, i've been able to prosper whilst rushing the creodron junkies with my smg. |
Tanksgiving
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.08.01 01:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:I sadly din't see any technical, meaningful improved on the FPS side for Dust 514.
Maybe I'm too exigent but really I don't have that "everything is fine, it just need to be polished" sensation.
Halo 1 is the last FPS that really brought gameplay improvements/changes, like it or not.
That's because Halo dumbed down the FPS and set its development back by a decade.
There are still a few studios making strides on the PC but they're rare. Bohemia Interactive is one example. If you look back to 2001 and compare Operation Flashpoint to Halo, it's really sad the way things turned out.
But Microsoft had money, and there was a legion of ignorant kids weened on Goldeneye who had disposable incomes. The Xbox filled that niche, and every developer wanted a spoonful of gravy.
It's disappointing seeing so many of those same children, ten years later, thinking CCP is being progressive and that Dust's numerous problems will magically disappear by the release candidates. They don't have a clue...and a lot of that it isn't their fault.
Templar Two wrote:Are we on P2P, dedicated server, or client/server?
Dedicated servers, if you can believe it.
Modern FPSs don't use P2P. It's mostly listen servers. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 02:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:I sadly din't see any technical, meaningful improved on the FPS side for Dust 514.
Maybe I'm too exigent but really I don't have that "everything is fine, it just need to be polished" sensation.
Also "conventional FPS" do improve, simply not with expansions like EVE but with sequels.
BF3 is technically better then BF 2; Killzone 2 is technically better then Killzone 1 and IMO still superior to any COD.
There will always be technical improvements deliver under DLC or expansions or new VG entirely.
Gameplay-wise is hard to see meaningful improvements, revolutions.
Halo 1 is the last FPS that really brought gameplay improvements/changes, like it or not.
Halo was 10 years ago the revolution in FPS.
Now it's mroe about consolidating the design and perfect the gampaly but really FPS don't need to be re-invented o...they need new horizons.
Sequels aren't improvement to the same game you're already playing though. You have to go out and buy them separately.
Picking up DUST on release, then coming back to it 3 years down the track is like if you could go into ANY store with your copy of the original Call of Duty and get them to swap it at no extra charge for Black Ops or your choice of Modern Warfare game.
Since they DON'T do that, it's NOT improvement on the same game, it's charging buckets of money for what may as well be a re-release of the game people already paid you a bucketload of money for.
And I'm pretty sure EVE has changed more in the same timeframe than Halo. |
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