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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
808
   |
Posted - 2012.07.27 05:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Very simple....
If a corp wants to fund a bajillion tanks, fine. Its coming out of their wallet.
If you dont like how tanks kill infantry so easily, fine. Go look up 'tank" on wikipedia.
If you dont like how some guy keeps killing you with X or Y weapon, fine. Its not called imbalanced, its called losing to a guy with a proper counter to your current fitting/tactics/play style.
If you think EVE wont last because its not COD, fine. You underestimate CCP, their staying power, and what this game is about.
If you dont like any of these points or dont like the fact that the meta game will have a profound impact on the way this game is played, fine. Unfortunately, this game isnt for you, nor will it change to mimic what you want. CCP has a vision for their baby and they will see it through. Please go find another game as there are many others which would suit your likings much better.
You dont have to feel bad about it, Dust 514 just isnt for you...
(Dust 514 is everything ive ever hoped for in a game and ill be damned if some of the narrow-minded run-n-guns turn it into another COD...I have faith in CCP tho ) |
Sandromin Hes
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
204
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 05:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 05:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sandromin Hes wrote:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Gimme the number of the guy that sells you your devil's lettuce please, ill put him on speed dial. |
Sandromin Hes
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
204
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 05:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
If by devil's lettuce you mean kimchi, I deal it all out.
If by devil's lettuce you mean PCP laced with heroine on a dollar bill, with a nice salad under it, then sorry, I just ran out.
If by devil's lettuce you mean memes, use google.
EDIT: anyways, i agree completely. That is all. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 06:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
It was a funny joke at first, but please stop filling my thread with trash. Was trying to have a good convo here with my fellow mercs
even gave a +1 to be a good sport |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
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Posted - 2012.07.27 06:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
I totally agree. +1 |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.07.27 06:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hand-waving away balance issues because of something wikipedia says isn't a good answer either, though. Not to say tanks are overpowered, just that people have complaints for a reason. The issues don't materialize in a vacuum. The sensible answer would be to accept the complaints people have and judge them fairly. Although it's great that Dust isn't the same as other FPS games, it doesn't absolve CCP of the responsibility to make a good, fun game. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 06:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Hand-waving away balance issues because of something wikipedia says isn't a good answer either, though. Not to say tanks are overpowered, just that people have complaints for a reason. The issues don't materialize in a vacuum. The sensible answer would be to accept the complaints people have and judge them fairly. Although it's great that Dust isn't the same as other FPS games, it doesn't absolve CCP of the responsibility to make a good, fun game.
well said. however, i feel it would be foolish to think that CCP should nerf a tank because a guy feels he cant single handedly take one out. They are made to be tanks for a reason.
I would be bold enough as to say a mojority of the people who say tanks are OP cant be bothered to switch to an AV fit (documented PDIGGY saying this before he comes in guns blazing, so his opinion on this is irrelevant) and repeatedly die to fully manned tanks because they run right by them to the objective, only to whine cause their proto assault suits cant tank railguns or missile launchers.
You wouldnt believe how many idiots waste half a clip of small arms fire on me as i drive by, only to meet my railgun...Its better than a radar.
You would think at some point they would realize an assault rifle wasnt meant for AV uses.... |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 06:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
also, you say CCP has an obligation to make a good game....
the many COD games out are redundant and boring now.
What i see in the beta is fantastic and to me, this is a way better game than any of the others, and its only in testing with only a small amount of content.
The good game argument is subjective and while some may say a run-n-gun is better, i say this is better.
Difference is, there are many run-n-guns for them to play. Dust isnt one of em and i will stay here and revel in the game that CCP has in mind for me.
Obviously, as beta testers our opinions matter and shape the game, but it IS CCP's game. We find bugs, break things so CCP knows how to fix them, test mechanics, etc.
However, in the end, CCP knows what kind of game they want to make and if its not what some people were hoping for, i.e. another arcade FPS, then they souldnt be playing a game like Dust that is trying to break the mold and do something different. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 06:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Here's a thought process:
Put on your big boy panties, wipe the tears off your chin, grab a swarm launcher/forge gun - and deal with it.
Also, you should feel lucky that we don't have these:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AstryokraYo/S6AAh8NWPRI/AAAAAAAAACw/A7SK1t_1QTg/s400/baneblade_1.jpg |
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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 06:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
i lol'd
awesome post |
accelsia
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 07:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rofl... i want 1 |
zerkin gerend
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 07:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sandromin Hes wrote:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
i want what he is Smoking
but yes tanks are tanks, dont like geting killed by them? get an AV wep
and the cost of tanks are geting bumped in the next build |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 08:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Are you done crying that CoD plays better? Or do more people have more tears to add... So bored of seeing people say "this game is not for you" like some kinda genius games guru. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 09:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
At the moment, most well-known post-release FPS games have better FPS mechanics than a beta provided by a developer who have never made this type of game before.
How surprising.
I'm looking forward to seeing how much they improve the game before release. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 09:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's not a balance issue. I've managed to make a sagaris hide underneath the building I was on, when I was equipped with a swarm launcher. Alone. I died a few times trying to get him, but I managed to make him stay in one place for most of the game. I even blew him up once, but he spawned another. |
Scrote Schroder
The Southern Legion
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Riding shotgun in Lurchasaurus' tank is the most fun ever. His tank fit is badass, and he knows how to use it. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tbh, attitudes like the OP are putting me off playing more than the Beta being boring. I'll make a thread later explaining exactly why HAV's are completely out of balance with the rest of the game and even each other. Not nearly enough time while I work. But the short story is who dies to a Gunloggi, who dies to a Sagaris? |
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
781
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Very simple.... If a corp wants to fund a bajillion tanks, fine. Its coming out of their wallet. If you dont like how tanks kill infantry so easily, fine. Go look up 'tank" on wikipedia. If you dont like how some guy keeps killing you with X or Y weapon, fine. Its not called imbalanced, its called losing to a guy with a proper counter to your current fitting/tactics/play style. If you think EVE wont last because its not COD, fine. You underestimate CCP, their staying power, and what this game is about. If you dont like any of these points or dont like the fact that the meta game will have a profound impact on the way this game is played, fine. Unfortunately, this game isnt for you, nor will it change to mimic what you want. CCP has a vision for their baby and they will see it through. Please go find another game as there are many others which would suit your likings much better. You dont have to feel bad about it, Dust 514 just isnt for you... (Dust 514 is everything ive ever hoped for in a game and ill be damned if some of the narrow-minded run-n-guns turn it into another COD...I have faith in CCP tho )
will you join my 'land before time' corp.
I'm recruiting dinosaurs |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Very simple.... If a corp wants to fund a bajillion tanks, fine. Its coming out of their wallet. If you dont like how tanks kill infantry so easily, fine. Go look up 'tank" on wikipedia. If you dont like how some guy keeps killing you with X or Y weapon, fine. Its not called imbalanced, its called losing to a guy with a proper counter to your current fitting/tactics/play style. If you think EVE wont last because its not COD, fine. You underestimate CCP, their staying power, and what this game is about. If you dont like any of these points or dont like the fact that the meta game will have a profound impact on the way this game is played, fine. Unfortunately, this game isnt for you, nor will it change to mimic what you want. CCP has a vision for their baby and they will see it through. Please go find another game as there are many others which would suit your likings much better. You dont have to feel bad about it, Dust 514 just isnt for you... (Dust 514 is everything ive ever hoped for in a game and ill be damned if some of the narrow-minded run-n-guns turn it into another COD...I have faith in CCP tho ) will you join my 'land before time' corp. I'm recruiting dinosaurs
You, sir, are awesome. |
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xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Last night
2 forge gunners and myself with proto swarm and 3 complex damagers tried to take a black tank down last night. We couldnt the whole game. It was stupid.
At times I threw remotes at it while forge gunners shot at it. We still couldnt blow it up. Its stupid.
the tank situation is stupid.
I have spent the last 2 weeks running round as only a an AV guy, cause I got bored of the objective / assault/ run game. Tanks are way OP, and ruin the maps. I die a little and kill a very small amount now but my ISK returns are massive far bigger than when I would kill a lot. Its stupid.
And I hate responding to IRL crap as its a game. I dont really die you know. Its just a bunch of 1111s and 000000. But look at an recent/ current wars from Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, tanks are being blown up all the time with RPGs.
rant over |
Adun Red
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Very simple.... If a corp wants to fund a bajillion tanks, fine. Its coming out of their wallet. If you dont like how tanks kill infantry so easily, fine. Go look up 'tank" on wikipedia. If you dont like how some guy keeps killing you with X or Y weapon, fine. Its not called imbalanced, its called losing to a guy with a proper counter to your current fitting/tactics/play style. If you think EVE wont last because its not COD, fine. You underestimate CCP, their staying power, and what this game is about. If you dont like any of these points or dont like the fact that the meta game will have a profound impact on the way this game is played, fine. Unfortunately, this game isnt for you, nor will it change to mimic what you want. CCP has a vision for their baby and they will see it through. Please go find another game as there are many others which would suit your likings much better. You dont have to feel bad about it, Dust 514 just isnt for you... (Dust 514 is everything ive ever hoped for in a game and ill be damned if some of the narrow-minded run-n-guns turn it into another COD...I have faith in CCP tho )
The only vehicle I would like seeing toned down are the kamikaze Dropships. The rest I would wait until ECM enters the game before nerfing any tanks. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
@Ackie.
Re the war in Afghanistan. Look up the Challenger 2 tank. Only two losses have been recorded. One was friendly fire, and I can't remember what the other one was. Alrighty, now let's get onto the good part.
One Challenger 2 tank took 50 recorded RPG, recoil-less rifle and other anti-tank weapon hits, and survived with cosmetic damage. OP much?
I carry around a proto swarm launcher, and regularly take out suryas, dropships, LAV's, AND make sagaris's hide from me. That's solo, not even with someone else helping. |
Pavel Monfreid
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm in agreement here. Even if you can't take a tank out with a swarm launcher or forge gun, making them run off to do repairs is just as good. It's location denial. There aren't that many matches that I was in where HAV and dropships took over the map. The only time that happened was when the whole group didn't change their fits to take out the vehicles. Guess what happened? They didn't adapt and they died often complaining how they were losing there 100K suit fits to a Sagaris rail gun. Either they will learn how to counter what's out there are they will continue dieing and complaining. |
Sephoran Griffith
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sandromin Hes wrote:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
I think this reflects the tone of this thread perfectly, so +1.
On a more serious note, I agree with OP +1 for you too.
and to add another nice tone to the mix.
"They say it don't be like it is, but it do!" |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pavel Monfreid wrote:I'm in agreement here. Even if you can't take a tank out with a swarm launcher or forge gun, making them run off to do repairs is just as good. It's location denial. There aren't that many matches that I was in where HAV and dropships took over the map. The only time that happened was when the whole group didn't change their fits to take out the vehicles. Guess what happened? They didn't adapt and they died often complaining how they were losing there 100K suit fits to a Sagaris rail gun. Either they will learn how to counter what's out there are they will continue dieing and complaining.
I run around on type 1 2 scout or A assault for the proto swarm and complex damagers - I have over 22m in ISK i cant spend. I dont care about equipment loss. It goes up no matter how much i die in game
Location denial? A tank running around a map in circles blowing everyone up is dumb.
@ Laheon yes I can make them run and hide - I keep hitting them and nothing happens - its stupid.
and I keep taking out lots of mid level / beginner tanks dropships etc. hence the cash
re: afghanistan - thats cause the taliban arent being funded by the CIA - they are using roadside bombs which I am pretty sure are blowing up loads of military vehicles. And as for challengers - we most prob only had 2 in the whole theatre. We now most probably have none after the cuts. But as I said this isnt RL. ITs a game |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ackie, you brought up Iraq :)
No, there were 120 in the initial invasion. Only one loss has been recorded, from friendly fire, and only one has been seriously damaged. The "seriously damaged" one was from a shaped IED, and it blew three of the driver's toes off and caused minor injuries to another crew member.
This was in Iraq, where it was ******'s elite guard who were trying to blow up the tank, not the taliban. There are plenty of real world examples where adaptive, ceramic armor is trumping a lot of anti-tank weapons.
It's not all about destroying them. It's about area denial, which is what a lot of explosives are used for in warfare. It's not just about killing people. RE's are meant to be for area denial, missile launchers (on vehicles) are used for area denial, forcing infantry to run for cover... Similarly, AV is used for area denial on vehicles. Sure, it can kill, but you can easily drive something away from where they want to be, towards where you want them to be. If you keep one still for ten minutes, that's half the match that the tank has done nothing.
Edit: har, his name's been bleeped out. Didn't know that it would do that. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Ackie, you brought up Iraq :)
No, there were 120 in the initial invasion. Only one loss has been recorded, from friendly fire, and only one has been seriously damaged. The "seriously damaged" one was from a shaped IED, and it blew three of the driver's toes off and caused minor injuries to another crew member.
This was in Iraq, where it was ******'s elite guard who were trying to blow up the tank, not the taliban. There are plenty of real world examples where adaptive, ceramic armor is trumping a lot of anti-tank weapons.
It's not all about destroying them. It's about area denial, which is what a lot of explosives are used for in warfare. It's not just about killing people. RE's are meant to be for area denial, missile launchers (on vehicles) are used for area denial, forcing infantry to run for cover... Similarly, AV is used for area denial on vehicles. Sure, it can kill, but you can easily drive something away from where they want to be, towards where you want them to be. If you keep one still for ten minutes, that's half the match that the tank has done nothing.
Edit: har, his name's been bleeped out. Didn't know that it would do that.
i brought it up to respond to someone else usng RL arguments. sorry, I am not an army bod. Your right. I dont know exact numbers. But our special forces in Libya and Syria seem to do very well blowing stuff up and am sure we would be too against challengers. But frankly, I dont care.
its not RL its a game |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
19-0 in a sica. Tanks are OP if you are even half decent at driving. I even killed a surya 1vs1 in my sica. The problem is the 1.5 damage multiplier.
No-one says "gunnloggi's are broken" even when they can take pretty similar levels of damage. No-one cries because a couple of militia tanks are rolling about. The problem is not HAV's but marauders. The fact is if a marauder shoots at you, your dead.
MILITIA Small missile = 200 splash
That's 300 on a marauder. 1.6 seconds isn't even long enough to charge a forge gun/lock. 2 launchers do 1200 SPLASH damage in 1.6 seconds.
The damage output is insane. If a marauder sees you, you're dead. Unless the gunners are terrible. It's pathetic that the tankers dont realise this.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Had a game the other day where literally almost the entire enemy team was in tanks (apart from the 4 players sharing 2 dropships between them.
There were 4 tanks and 2 Dropships on the enemy team at almost all times. Our team only used 3 Dropships in total, and we won horribly. 2 of the tanks (one was a well-fitted Surya) got taken down, and the others we just forced to keep their distance from the objectives.
We tried multiple times and lost people in each encounter with the Surya before we finally got it. And it was amazing what happened. Dropship pilot loaded up with passengers, flew over the Surya, and dropped EVERYONE out directly onto the tank. They quickly surrounded it and tossed AV grenades in, while a couple took Forge Gun shots at it as well.
When we finally got everything organised and made it happen, It took less than 10 seconds from first shot fired to the destruction of the target. If you stack enough hits onto a tank at once, even a good one will go down. |
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