i've seen 3 standard swarm launchers shoot it and it's shields regen'd faster then they could reload..

I'm sad to say we couldnt cap an objective.

Your problem: You were trying to take down a likely highly outfitted top tier HAV by yourself. You should lose this fight every time, and in all honesty if you're getting this close by yourself, you should be weakened.

I'm not dismissing what you're saying. I read the whole thing and know you were using the proto launcher and were spec'ed as anti-vehicle.

The issue is they were likely spec'ed to survive damage, too, and those aren't supposed to go down to a single person. You say you have roughly 3m SP invested in your fit, I have 5.3m in my HAV and more I plan on putting in. Your suit costs how much, 80k, 120k maybe? My HAV has 200k worth of weapons and "survival" type modules on it without even factoring in the cost of the vehicle itself. Money isn't necessarily the best comparison of what will do better, but these things are built to last.

Your problem is you can't kill one by yourself, and you want to be able to. No. That should not be allowed.

Why should he be weakened? This wasn't case of someone using a weapon easily; he planned his tactic and acted accordingly. He did almost everything right to get an advantage over a stronger enemy.

Why should he be weakened? This wasn't case of someone using a weapon easily; he planned his tactic and acted accordingly. He did almost everything right to get an advantage over a stronger enemy.

I would say that maybe you should first upgrade your weapon damage before deciding whether the HAV is the problem. Some things can be solved with the right fittings that don't require nerfs or buffs.

I can't give an answer as to who necessarily needs to be weakened, if anyone, given his example. The reason is we don't know how the HAV was outfitted. If it had junky modules on it (unlikely, but let's go with it), then yeah, he should probably destroy it. If it was a super spec'd HAV with basically all proto gear and one of the best drivers in the game, the swarm setup he has is too strong. It is my opinion that a properly outfitted HAV should not go down to a single person with an equal level of outfitting (ie max spec vs max spec). If it's coming that close, and the HAV was max modded with a fantastic driver, the swarm needs to be toned down, not the HAV. Nobody should be able to solo the top of the class HAVs, even with a brief amount of surprise.

My point is there should be a suitable counter and as it stands there isn't one for it.

Actually, there are.

Just as a HAV can be fittet to suck up damage to the extreme, one can (and probably are) fitted to DEAL extreme damage.

The suitable counter to a high resist HAV, is HIGH DPS HAV's

Dewie - I appreciate the comment but heres my question to counter that statement. So the anti tank weapons shouldn't be anti tank weapons is what you are saying and that the only things that should stop a tank are other tanks?

Jonquill - I'll grant you that numbers and skill apply of course in a game like this but like I said, currently thats a matter of luck at the moment. If you play with a bunch of people that have no mics you are doomed. However thats not the games problem of course. And after taking the time to mull over things the balance isn't that bad for now when the mics are working and you can co-ordinate. However I am also of the mindset that there should be multiple avenues of attacking such a beast as well.

A lot of people seems to have overlooked part of the post I made. Might be because it's so small but I did make another suggestion besides increasing the damage slightly for the higher tier launchers and that was to introduce equipment meant to either do more damage to vehicles such as the standard AV proximity mines or equipment/weapons meant to jam the tanks self repairing protocols.

I know EVE has tons of electronic warfare and so is it really a hard leap of logic to have equipment that can jam or sabotage such healing mechanisms to even the playing field? Heck as I recall even in the DEV blogs they mentioned something about EMP weapons and so forth.

I appreciate your time taken to give some positive feedback however and the suggestions on what would work and what obviously does not. Whether I like what you say or not at least there was something substantial in what you are saying.

This game is suppose to be about tatics.

start hitting tech 4 gear alll the way across I will be putting 250k+ into it..

If they call in tanks you get 4 man crew with decent swarms

@ Jack

1. There is no contradiction there. The tank did not get outplayed. 1 swarm launcher troupe vs a sagaris tank. Hmm Do I call that being very tactical. Not at all. I give him probs he did a great ambush but he was using a tactic that was already a fail to begin with. If ryan used a actual tactic he would have been him and 2 other swarm users waiting on that ambush. And I am guessing they would have had no problem then.

Military tactics, the science and art of organizing a military force, are the techniques for using weapons or military units in combination for engaging and defeating an enemy in battle.

They are not the art of running around solo. Do you see solo there no. it says unitS. you see that S. UNITS not UNIT.

2. 250k isk not alot Well not sure where you come from but on my best games where my gunners go 30-0 in the turrets I make about 190isk and gain about 35k skill points. If I loose a drop ship that is a whole games worth of isk. If I loose a second drop ship that is 2 games worth of isk. So yes it is a way greater isk investment then what dropsuits put in. Sagaris has more slots so I have a feeling that there investment is 350k on a proto out sagaris.

3. And final Tactics. I could fly a missile fit Enyx into battle and my gunners take out all his infantry support then the swarm launchers could ambush him and bang the sagaris is dead. Wow we just used team work to win. :) Or you just wait in a ambush and do a suicide run with 5 swarms that are non militia you will take it out very very fast before the infantry can start killing you.. Or you could get to a high point and have all 4 guys locking on. And before they can even figure out where you are hitting him from he is most likely going to be taken out. Do you really need me to give you more ways.

none of what you mentioned will work in a real match against a properly driven sagaris. the tank will sit back and shoot down anything that gets into vision while the rest of the team advances. good luck with your drop ship, as soon as it appears on screen infront of my railgun you can say goodbye to it. just look at battfield, the tanks there blow up after 2 well placed hits with an anti tank weapon but still they are abused to zone everyone from long range because it is not possible to fight back at such ranges. this will actually work even better in dust because the maps are smaller thus have more chokes the tank driver can abuse and and the tank is sturdy as hell.

if a single player cant counter another player by outsmarting him then the game is pointless and will end into HAV514. it does not even require alot of skill to sit back with a sagaris and kill one after another from range but yet is super effective and cant be defended against.

Dewie - I appreciate the comment but heres my question to counter that statement. So the anti tank weapons shouldn't be anti tank weapons is what you are saying and that the only things that should stop a tank are other tanks?

Well one guy should never be able to take out a sagaris with even just a decent fit. I do not know personally what they drop into there sagaris for isk but for my Myron I am paying 150k I have a feeling once I get into my enyx and start hitting tech 4 gear alll the way across I will be putting 250k+ into it. I can imagine sargas tanks cost the same maybe even more.

With that said yes op you should have not stood a chance at soloing the sagaris. But if you had 4 man crew supprising it or a Enyx/Prometheus Meta 4 turrets and damage mods nailing it from the sky while you took ground assault then yes you should have taken it.

Sad thing to say everyone tries to nerf everything because they can not take it out solo. This game is suppose to be about tatics. If they call in tanks you get 4 man crew with decent swarms with a few assaults or heavies to back them up or vice versa you get 4 heavies with forges and have assaults escorting. You take out the sagris tank once or twice most likely they are not calling it in a 3rd time because they are lossing big time on the iskies that round.

Just like my myron you should have 4 guys trying to nail that out of the sky to be successful. I should not get blown up easily because one guy has a proto swarm launcher and spends 1/8th the isk on one of there builds. I do under stand you are skill intensive but I am also skill intensive and when all said and done my enyx will need 5m skillpoints+ for it to be fitted properly. Then I am also sinking 250k iskies into it. Would you think it fair if I took off and all of a sudden bang I am dead because one guy has proto swarms and things he can solo my enyx. I got to look at it the same for HAV drivers what they probably put in for SP which is more then me by far. Should they not with the sp intensive and isk they put in have some survivability.


So what do I get out of this thread. People are failing at tactics and yelling for a nerf which is not needed.

I got extremely close to taking it out but still even that was not enough. It still had a sliver of armor left and began healing. I died and I had to wonder by then end of it what else can possibly be done to improve myself and get a legit chance? After a long look I know that I could increase weaponry or such by a point and put on two complex light damage modules and see if that works however it is extremely disheartening to know that I have specialized this much in being an anti vehicle maniac and I cannot get the top prize so far.

Are you sure you need light one, not a heavy?

Edit: Moreover(finally, I read thread) orbital bombardment would be useful against such targets.

The simple problem you had is you dumb-fired. A quick a dirty fix to permanently prevent the abuse of last patch was to make dumbfire miss the side of a barn at point blank range. Honestly you were lucky to do any significant damage. This is getting fixed for next patch, but for now you are force to rely on positioning and lock ons. As one of the top Sagaris pilots, let me assure you I am forced to notice prototype swarm launchers, and need specialized fits to outlast the swarmer.

Furthermore, forge guns absolutely wreck tanks. I would say equal players the forge gun kills 40%, the tank escapes 40%, and the last 20% the forge gunner is killed. That is brutally effective at a fraction of the price and SP.

i've seen 3 standard swarm launchers shoot it and it's shields regen'd faster then they could reload..

I'm sad to say we couldnt cap an objective.