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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Moorian Flav
637
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Posted - 2017.04.26 17:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Many concepts from Dust are alive in development, and many others have been cut.
Now I'm really curious.
I am hoping he is simply meaning OBs and vehicles. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Fixitgd
Incorruptibles
364
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Posted - 2017.04.26 18:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Keep the lag, and blue shield flash please!
But with all honesty how do I get my ticket to the alpha, I miss my jail cell apartment with a bed no one could ever fit on, oh and my sweet hologram partner.
"Suck it!" - S.M.
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Moorian Flav
637
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Posted - 2017.04.26 18:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
Fixitgd wrote:I miss my jail cell apartment with a bed no one could ever fit on, oh and my sweet hologram partner.
If you really miss it so much, join EVE and go to the Captain's Quarters. 
The quarters bunk area looks exactly as it did in DUST (although there is more interaction EVE side).
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
13732
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Posted - 2017.04.26 18:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
Moorian Flav wrote:Fixitgd wrote:I miss my jail cell apartment with a bed no one could ever fit on, oh and my sweet hologram partner. If you really miss it so much, join EVE and go to the Captain's Quarters. The quarters bunk area looks exactly as it did in DUST (although there is more interaction EVE side).
Yeah. You can sit on the couch and click on the TV.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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Avallo Kantor
1196
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Posted - 2017.04.26 19:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter. It is also to learn from EVE and Dust 514, a thinking man's shooter that is easy to understand, difficult to master.
Many concepts from Dust are alive in development, and many others have been cut.
Great to hear.
Out of curiosity, what do you think defines a "Thinking man's shooter" vs a fixed class lobby shooter. This doesn't have to be a discussion of specific mechanics, but of general themes / ideas that separate the two sub-genres.
[Honestly I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion on this, not just Rattati's]
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
13735
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Posted - 2017.04.26 22:39:00 -
[66] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter. It is also to learn from EVE and Dust 514, a thinking man's shooter that is easy to understand, difficult to master.
Many concepts from Dust are alive in development, and many others have been cut. Great to hear. Out of curiosity, what do you think defines a "Thinking man's shooter" vs a fixed class lobby shooter. This doesn't have to be a discussion of specific mechanics, but of general themes / ideas that separate the two sub-genres. [Honestly I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion on this, not just Rattati's]
My definition of a "Thinking Man's Shooter":
I look back at Eve Online and Dust 514 and think of the one thing they have in common. The idea that there is no such thing as a go-to meta. You can't just jumble together a single fit and decide that THAT is doctrine. In fact, some of the most unusual fits often turn out to be the most effective when in the right hands and when executed correctly under the right conditions.
Eve Online has no shortage of unusual fits that turned out to actually work (at least once). The lone hauler ship that destroyed a mission-running battleship is one awesome example of that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6so9AT4UydQ
Then there is the fleet of Drakes that traditionally were known to be impractical for PvP but still manages to surprise people who encounter a whole fleet of Drakes that they didn't expect.
Dust 514 was the same thing. Traditionally an AV-fit assault player was needed to take out that pesky Madrugar but then came the infamous (and exceedingly expensive) Officer-Nova-Knives-Fitted Minmatar Scout that can run well over a 100 yards in 10 seconds. Then there is the infamous myofib-fitted fister roaming about. Or the Heavy Amarr wielding just knives.
Dust 514 encouraged you to really think out of the box. The same is still true for Eve Online. You just didn't know what to expect for every encounter.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1863
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Posted - 2017.04.26 23:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:
Out of curiosity, what do you think defines a "Thinking man's shooter" vs a fixed class lobby shooter.
To me it means tactical, a lot of shooters are just straight up run and gun death match... Things like MAG and Dust had more of a strategic approach to how you go about winning.
Sadly in Dust a lot of the best tactics were horribly dull... Roof camping / uplink spam.
Also MAG had it's fair share of co-ordination issues with Rambo's everywhere... Though it was nice that a small group of co-ordinated people could still have some impact.
Hopefully objectives are more important than kills... But with the balance of staying alive being useful enough not to just charge in with heavies > die > respawn > rinse > repeat.
If it also means managing your resources, I hope it doesn't suffer the same issues as Dust, where isk balance was completely lost and some people were basically on unlimited funds while the rest were struggling to make ends meet... Hence the disparity in pubs... Added to the one sided battle problems. |
John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
2223
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Posted - 2017.04.27 00:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter.
My ambition is not to grow old until the end of development.
Please support fair play!
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BigStuarty
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
211
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Posted - 2017.04.27 00:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter. It is also to learn from EVE and Dust 514, a thinking man's shooter that is easy to understand, difficult to master.
Many concepts from Dust are alive in development, and many others have been cut.
Well said. Gentle beginnings. But sleeping mercs gain a great thirst. I touched on a previous topic that as to realise what you want you've got to go back to the beginning . The lobby last year was that. A year later I bet your bursting to show us but I understand you feel a debt to the community and I'm sure you have nice shiny things waiting for us.. Nice to see you drop a line Sir o7 |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1965
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Posted - 2017.04.27 01:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Avallo Kantor wrote:
Out of curiosity, what do you think defines a "Thinking man's shooter" vs a fixed class lobby shooter.
To me it means tactical, a lot of shooters are just straight up run and gun death match... Things like MAG and Dust had more of a strategic approach to how you go about winning. Sadly in Dust a lot of the best tactics were horribly dull... Roof camping / uplink spam. Also MAG had it's fair share of co-ordination issues with Rambo's everywhere... Though it was nice that a small group of co-ordinated people could still have some impact. Hopefully objectives are more important than kills... But with the balance of staying alive being useful enough not to just charge in with heavies > die > respawn > rinse > repeat. If it also means managing your resources, I hope it doesn't suffer the same issues as Dust, where isk balance was completely lost and some people were basically on unlimited funds while the rest were struggling to make ends meet... Hence the disparity in pubs... Added to the one sided battle problems.
Mag was rewarding when it came to teamwork. If you could get all squad leaders to attack a single bunker at once you steamrolled the first defensive line. APC's where good when parked in a god spot to get quicker spawns in. Mag was unique and awesome for its time. I still miss the days where i sneak past the defense and just simply planted C4 charges on all the support structures like artillery etc. Or when defending trying to repair the AAA battery to buy my team some time till the next wave comes in.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1472
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Posted - 2017.04.27 02:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
I think the most impactful aspects of Eve Online and Dust 514 are that losses meant more than deaths.
Losing all your best gear to some troll hurt. But getting that troll back, making him lose his best gear, seeing him on the scoreboard with a single death and knowing you made that happen... thats an emotional moment.
The times I killed duna2002 in his tank and made him quit. The times he'd see me call in my tank, and he'd just recall his tank and quit the match... THAT FELT GOOD |
meri jin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1033
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Posted - 2017.04.27 08:12:00 -
[72] - Quote
Sooooo how long do we have to wait this time?
R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014
EVE United
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Jack Boost
Zarena Family
1221
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Posted - 2017.04.27 08:29:00 -
[73] - Quote
meri jin wrote:Sooooo how long do we have to wait this time?
hmm..
for game itself - 1 year to announcement at Fanfest 2018, and 3-6 month of beta.
Marketing plan can take extra half or one year more...
(my optimistic ver 2.0)
Good?
Not much time left...
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8093
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Posted - 2017.04.27 12:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter. It is also to learn from EVE and Dust 514, a thinking man's shooter that is easy to understand, difficult to master.
Many concepts from Dust are alive in development, and many others have been cut.
I really liked the Scavenging Grounds concept from Legion. Maybe not for release, I understand the release focus and not wanting scope creep; but it would be a good way of introducing a player economy in a later expansion, and it would have a more open world feel than queued matches do.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8093
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Posted - 2017.04.27 12:35:00 -
[75] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter. It is also to learn from EVE and Dust 514, a thinking man's shooter that is easy to understand, difficult to master.
Many concepts from Dust are alive in development, and many others have been cut. Great to hear. Out of curiosity, what do you think defines a "Thinking man's shooter" vs a fixed class lobby shooter. This doesn't have to be a discussion of specific mechanics, but of general themes / ideas that separate the two sub-genres. [Honestly I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion on this, not just Rattati's]
Being able to plan a skill plan and fittings that will support your style of play. As apposed to everyone having the same gear the the person with the best hand/eye coordination and reaction time wins.
They say in EVE the battle is won or lost before you leave the station because your ship and fittings have so much effect on the outcome of a battle. It is not actually true of course, there are a lot of tactics that can be applied by really experienced players that can make a big difference, but ship and fitting still play a hedge part. Doing small gang PVP in Syndicate I felt like I needed to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every ship I faced and how it might be fitted, in order to know what tactics to use to beat them. EVE is the ultimate thinking mans tactical game, where you feel like the star ship captain giving orders rather than the pilot flying the ship.
I think Nova is supposed to be somewhere between that and COD/Battlefield. Nova should have the intricate preparation of a complex fitting system, but without loosing the direct feel of a FPS.
EVE is completely tactical with very little hand/eye coordination requires (you are the Captain), while Valkyrie is very hand/eye coordination focused (you are the pilot). Nova should be the nice middle ground between those extremes.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
13738
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Posted - 2017.04.27 15:14:00 -
[76] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:I think the most impactful aspects of Eve Online and Dust 514 are that losses meant more than deaths.
Losing all your best gear to some troll hurt. But getting that troll back, making him lose his best gear, seeing him on the scoreboard with a single death and knowing you made that happen... thats an emotional moment.
The times I killed duna2002 in his tank and made him quit. The times he'd see me call in my tank, and he'd just recall his tank and quit the match... THAT FELT GOOD
That's another thing that Eve Online and Dust 514 had in common. Running around with the most powerful knives in the fastest dropsuit in the game felt great and I felt like GOD in the process, but GOD DAMN IT it was expensive which is why you didn't see any players abusing it. The fact that the officer weapons were only obtainable through strong boxes and were extremely rare with each pair costing about 200,000 ISK in the secondary market made it so that I had to be extra careful when choosing my targets.
Eve Online was the same thing. Sure, it's nice to fly in a Marauder but god forbid you ever lose that ship.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
17102
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Posted - 2017.04.27 15:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:I think the most impactful aspects of Eve Online and Dust 514 are that losses meant more than deaths.
Losing all your best gear to some troll hurt. But getting that troll back, making him lose his best gear, seeing him on the scoreboard with a single death and knowing you made that happen... thats an emotional moment.
The times I killed duna2002 in his tank and made him quit. The times he'd see me call in my tank, and he'd just recall his tank and quit the match... THAT FELT GOOD That's another thing that Eve Online and Dust 514 had in common. Running around with the most powerful knives in the fastest dropsuit in the game felt great and I felt like GOD in the process, but GOD DAMN IT it was expensive which is why you didn't see any players abusing it. The fact that the officer weapons were only obtainable through strong boxes and were extremely rare with each pair costing about 200,000 ISK in the secondary market made it so that I had to be extra careful when choosing my targets. Eve Online was the same thing. Sure, it's nice to fly in a Marauder but god forbid you ever lose that ship.
This was true up to a point.
The broken PC System broke the economy with certain players being able to nearly infinitely run the highest tier stuff. And some would go ao far as to leave a match while in bleedout to save a suit, or so I remember hearing.
I like the idea of it, but the execution in Dust was far from perfect, or even good.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
13739
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Posted - 2017.04.27 19:07:00 -
[78] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:
This was true up to a point.
The broken PC System broke the economy with certain players being able to nearly infinitely run the highest tier stuff. And some would go ao far as to leave a match while in bleedout to save a suit, or so I remember hearing.
I like the idea of it, but the execution in Dust was far from perfect, or even good.
Now I remember! It was the Nothis Nova Knives that they were called. XD
Anyways, yeah Planetary Conquest in the way it was originally implemented caused a **** ton of problems. I remember CCP Rattati assembling a Planetary Conquest Think Tank way back then to address the issue head on which resulted in a much better format for PC but it was too late as the damage was already done and many corps already held districts that were originally working as passive ATM machines. Then there was the problem of corporations already swimming in piles of ISK that can make Scrooge McDuck's Money Bin look like a shoe box in comparison.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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Nomex Gallatin
Direct Action Resources
Rise Of Legion.
166
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Posted - 2017.04.27 21:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter. It is also to learn from EVE and Dust 514, a thinking man's shooter that is easy to understand, difficult to master...
I know Dust had it's shortfalls, but to be clear, I really didn't care all that much because Dust 514 was the first (and only) thinking man's shooter that I have played in my life, mostly for the reasons already mentioned.
Because of the fact is was a thinking mans shooter, it was (and still is) easy for me to look into the future and deal with the wait, or as the case was with Dust, whatever bugs needed fixing.
I, like so many here in the forum have expressed, can't wait to see what your team is producing and get a chance to get back into a community and universe that makes logging in every day an event to look forward to.
Until then, grinding away in the wasteland of FPS out there.
GǣGǪ shatter the enemy and then the terrain will fall into your hands by itself.Gǥ - General Heinz Gaedke
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3232
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Posted - 2017.04.28 03:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
John Psi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Our ambition is not to do a fixed class lobby shooter. My ambition is not to grow old until the end of development.
To late for me. Hope we see alpha before i need a walker. And a reaching broom.
Spending merc fortune like water keeping these clone tumors under control....
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DeadlyAztec11
10117
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Posted - 2017.04.28 05:08:00 -
[81] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
EVE is completely tactical with very little hand/eye coordination requires (you are the Captain), while Valkyrie is very hand/eye coordination focused (you are the pilot). Nova should be the nice middle ground between those extremes.
I would argue that EVE is strategic while Valkyrie is tactical because in EVE you tend to have an overarching plan while in Valkyrie you more or less use rehearsed moves to take care of challenges as they come without a real plan that would give it strategic properties.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8096
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Posted - 2017.04.28 12:08:00 -
[82] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:I think the most impactful aspects of Eve Online and Dust 514 are that losses meant more than deaths.
Losing all your best gear to some troll hurt. But getting that troll back, making him lose his best gear, seeing him on the scoreboard with a single death and knowing you made that happen... thats an emotional moment.
The times I killed duna2002 in his tank and made him quit. The times he'd see me call in my tank, and he'd just recall his tank and quit the match... THAT FELT GOOD That's another thing that Eve Online and Dust 514 had in common. Running around with the most powerful knives in the fastest dropsuit in the game felt great and I felt like GOD in the process, but GOD DAMN IT it was expensive which is why you didn't see any players abusing it. The fact that the officer weapons were only obtainable through strong boxes and were extremely rare with each pair costing about 200,000 ISK in the secondary market made it so that I had to be extra careful when choosing my targets. Eve Online was the same thing. Sure, it's nice to fly in a Marauder but god forbid you ever lose that ship.
I once calculated that if I wanted to buy a Titen with PLEX it would cost twice as much as my first car. 
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
8096
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Posted - 2017.04.28 12:18:00 -
[83] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
EVE is completely tactical with very little hand/eye coordination requires (you are the Captain), while Valkyrie is very hand/eye coordination focused (you are the pilot). Nova should be the nice middle ground between those extremes.
I would argue that EVE is strategic while Valkyrie is tactical because in EVE you tend to have an overarching plan while in Valkyrie you more or less use rehearsed moves to take care of challenges as they come without a real plan that would give it strategic properties.
That is an interesting point. I definitely agree that EVE is more Strategic than Valkyrie, and Strategic may have been a more appropriate word for what I was trying to get across. But Tactics are a hedge part of EVE combat as well. It is good strategy to attack a Mission Battleship with another Battleship or Heavy Cruiser. But with the proper tactics you can take out a Mission Battleship with a Frigate. It is all about transverse velocities and such.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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DeadlyAztec11
10117
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Posted - 2017.04.30 03:46:00 -
[84] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
EVE is completely tactical with very little hand/eye coordination requires (you are the Captain), while Valkyrie is very hand/eye coordination focused (you are the pilot). Nova should be the nice middle ground between those extremes.
I would argue that EVE is strategic while Valkyrie is tactical because in EVE you tend to have an overarching plan while in Valkyrie you more or less use rehearsed moves to take care of challenges as they come without a real plan that would give it strategic properties. That is an interesting point. I definitely agree that EVE is more Strategic than Valkyrie, and Strategic may have been a more appropriate word for what I was trying to get across. But Tactics are a hedge part of EVE combat as well. It is good strategy to attack a Mission Battleship with another Battleship or Heavy Cruiser. But with the proper tactics you can take out a Mission Battleship with a Frigate. It is all about transverse velocities and such.
Well you know me I'm a grammar ****, so semantics are my thing.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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