Whats ******* new?

Half the time i post for myself anyways.

Uhhh.. I read down to MGO3 and stopped. MGO3 was fun. The gameplay was fun, and it controlled well. The goofy japanese humor (plush toys etc) may not be my cup of tea, but the game was solid. Nobody played the dang thing but I had some great games with friends. Games are fun, start with fun. And also...not getting stuck on random ****.

5th faction, if it is the jovians it will suck, they should never be played and it should always be the 4 main factions and possibly later on or even at the start the pirate factions aswell but never jove.

You know besides the Jove there are more or less half a dozen other factions who could throw their lot in.... still I haven't actually heard about this 5th faction yet.

Could be a group like ORE (Outer Ring Excavations), The Upwell Consortium, The Society of Conscious Thought, The Servant Sisters of EVE, Mordu's Legion and those are without even listing the most recognisable pirate factions of the Serpentis, Guristas, Angel Cartel, Blood Raiders, and Sansha's Nation.


I'd honestly say the first five are more likely for us however as far as I know the Upwell Consortium don't actually both with small scale technologies.

WOT is different, everyone is in a tank and it does not cost to use it apart from repair and ammo, to progress in your logi suit would be far more efficent than me an a HAV and the rewards are the same yet if i get destroyed it cost me a far lot more.

It does not cost apart from repair and ammo. Neither does DUST if you don't die. So because everyone is in a Tank the mechanic by which you have to play a tank before you can unlock better fittings for said Tank is now acceptable?

But apparently that same common sense mechanic has no place in NOVA because . . . . . . .?

The system in DUST is fine as is because your SP can be placed where you want it to be and not where the game tells you or forces you.

The SP system is one of the biggest gripes new players have with DUST, it's confusing and unhelpful. The game doesn't advise you where to spend your SP, nor would it make sense to, but you can't stop someone specing into armor for a shield based suit.

I cannot remember 32 fits from 3 years ago.
Probably because you never consistently used all 32. And I'm only asking for their purpose, not each individual fitted module.

Vehicles are an essential part of an MMO.
No they are not.

Quote:

An MMO, or massively multiplayer online game, is a game that thousands of participants can play simultaneously over the internet. Some MMO games offer voice chat, in which players can wear a headset and talk to other unseen players online.

Take for example, World of Warcraft, no vehicle combat there.



End game, what to do at the end after you max it out,
Precisely, so what more content do you expect after you've maxed out the game?

Division just becomes a Sponge Shooter
Probably because you have poor gear. My Lvl 26 gear is still serving me pretty well after the Cap.

ME still got screwed.
Opinion, could have been a lot worse

5th faction, if it is the jovians it will suck, they should never be played and it should always be the 4 main factions and possibly later on or even at the start the pirate factions aswell but never jove.
Pirate and Sub factions would be further up the tree after the main race based on their allegiance. Or at least that is what I would expect.

You mean before CCP dissapoint, i aint making the game.

Rattatai has been quoted as saying that the first 2 levels of the suit tree will be dealt with by some form of generic race. That doesn't necessarily mean a 5th faction but more concept art for a new heavy back up the rumor.

I don't know why but everyone seems to be over looking CONCORD as the possible 5th faction. Not only are they a significant military power with great influence of High Sec space. It also makes a lot of sense thematically.

Finally it sets up where at the very least high sec contracts cone from.

No because if Rattatai keeps on his current path, he's not gonna dissapoint most of us. Likely only you and your ilk.

WOW is a dungeon game, i think with magic and fairytale stuff in which you obtain the sword of great something, not sure how a tank will fit in.

of course a tank wouldn't fit, why do you always assume tanks? The point is WOW the most well known MMO possibly of all time has no vehicle combat of any kind. Short of perhaps a set piece with catapults.

A vehicle, or vehicle/mounted combat is not an integral part of an MMO, the only MMO that I can think of that has both foot solider and vehicle combat is star Trek, maybe Star Wars but I didn't play that.

Take EVE, end game can be various things, end game may not even exist depending on how you see it, always something to do and to learn. I never reached end game with EVE, i did high sec and still did PVE/mining/exploration. low sec was FW fun apart from OGB and null i hated and bored me.

So you got bored of Null Sec, where the majority of players say the real game lives? What was it that bored you?

Get higher, it gets to a point where it becomes real spongy but i find low levels full of sponge too, DUST ttk is generally okay but a headshot is a headshot.

As someone on the the division forums said, if you think end-game is just bullet sponges then you don't understand the point of an mmorpg

Pirate and sub factions all work differently, mordu legion is mercs, blood raiders are pirates, one gets sent out on missions and the other drinks the blood of its victims i think.
But that doesn't stop them
1) Having there own suits,
2) Having one of the 4 main factions be there race type.

You mean you're a pessimist in denial.

Can we take a moment to appreciate that logic right there, it doesn't matter how many people like it, or enjoy it, it doesn't mean it's good. If only there were someway to quantify how good a game is . . . . .

Deep inside the heart of every cynic is just a terribly, terribly disappointed optimist.



He's actually addressing the logical fallacy "argumentum ad populum" or 'appeal to the masses/popularity'. It is true that just because something is popular doesn't mean its objectively good, there are plenty of things that are "popular" but actually quite bad for you - like say smoking.

This is where informed opinions come in - a lot of people don't believe in say evolution, or climate change, but these people are non-experts with non-expert opinions that usually are not well reasoned or supported - so in effect their opinions do not matter compared to people who are experts and do have a lot of knowledge in the area.

There are amazing, wonderful, incredibly creative games out there that aren't very popular. There are games out there that are extremely popular but are a repackaging of something that was dated years ago.

Finally in regards to CONCORD not having solders run round blow stuff up. They have capsuleers do it. And pay them for the privilege.

What doesn't make sense about Concord hiring a bunch of mercy to raid an illegal shipment of quake?

But this is CCP.

Now i could easily resub back to EVE, i enjoyed it, it is a social game but even so afk mining or just floating about was fun. There was always something do but the major drawback for me was always PVP, it was terrible frankly since it was a giant blobfest the vast majority of the time and finding a 1v1 without an OGB was next to impossible i found unless it was someone afk in a FW complex and this ruined null and FW to a point even though being in FW was fun.

You might learn a thing or two from Zarvox Toral when it comes to PvP. He can make any confrontation not matter how stacked against him it becomes look really intense and fun. No, seriously, just look at him. https://www.twitch.tv/zarvoxtoral

But EVE is complete, you can dive in and have a vast number of options at your fingertips and play it.

Eve is only complete because it's been 12 years since it first launched Eve Online had an extremely rough start as well which is almost comparable to how Dust started.

DUST514 is not complete and got the plug pulled and now 6 years later Nova is announced, not with a fanfare but a whimper, Hilmar didn't look too impressed and in the same breath said that CCP would not be afraid to axe failing projects which is a red flag to me since we know that CCP were not happy with DUST and Nova is still a unlit project.

If enough players like us support Project Nova and since the reviews of the project are looking very promising, he might be singing a different tune eventually. But you also have to remember where Hilmar is coming from. He thought Dust would succeed and then look what happened.

What i saw was labeled as a 'tech demo' to showcase the game at its core and how it is going back to its roots as an FPS to fix the basic mechanics which is all well and good but if other mechanics are missing or just outright bad then you end up like MGO3 with great mechanics but shite gameplay.

The demo was very basic, the map was small and no longer on a planet so that hinted at arena type maps and not open world which also means no vehicles or AV.

It's actually not a bad move. Sure having a lot of features in Dust gave the game immersion but all of that great immersion kept getting constantly broken by a badly designed core FPS. We now have proof through Dust's history that a core FPS MUST BE BUILT AND STABILIZED FIRST ABOVE ALL ELSE. There is no exception to that rule.

Players can quickly jump into a match but dev comments after stated that you can unlock more things for it the more you play that role, this is a bad decision and a dumbing down of the game and a forced restriction of the player choices. SP and skillbooks allow you to train up many skills which can improve your role even if you for a logi suit to be a slayer, look at EVE for direction again freedom to do what you want and how to do it.

That's not how I read it. He said that using the role added SP for that role and its weapons. But I don't think I read anything from Rattati that I won't be able to fit a pair of Nova Knives on an Amarr Heavy if I choose to from the start.

32 roles? I had more with my vehicles and even so the 4 different factions which will have the 3 different suits split up twice really does mean 8 roles which will be the same for the 4 factions so it is not really 32 roles if Logi features 4 times.

Jump jets, talk about not learning from the myo problem where we currently have scouts jumping around like they are on the moon.

You can't say that at all for a game that is literally rebuilt on a different engine from that of Dust. We don't even know how myos would work anymore in Nova exactly. Sure you can speculate, but that's all you can do. Speculate. Not confirm unless CCP clearly says so. For all we know Myos might lose their jump bonus and the jump jet mechanics might be different.

16v16 on PC for a supposedly MMO, we have had 16v16 on PS3 for 6 years where is the ambition? EVE has stupidly massive fleet fights, your novels and stories has massive fights in both space and ground so why not Nova?.

A roundtable was nonexistant, no other information relating to the game was released or even expanded upon, very vauge statements released to gaming websites in which i have heard before many times years ago when DUST was around in that the game is looking to do x and we want to do y.

Big difference with Dust and Nova. Dust was hyped like hell. Nova is not. That's a good thing.

To Be Continued on my Next Post

I am a realist when it comes to any games these days, i know that EA will shaft you and that Ubisoft will rush something half finished and that CCP thinks big but fails to deliver unless it is EVE.

I understand you're trying to be a realist, but I think you're inadvertently coming off as extremely pessimistic without realizing it.

DUST has had years on an outdated platform which everyone knew it would not last, they achieved linking it to EVE but overall failed at what they wanted to accomplish and what the players wanted to do in the game. The game had good times and bad times but most of it was linked to various events outside the players control such as 'rouge wedding' or change in staff which means a change in ideas and vision along with other side projects eating away at the office like Valkyrie/Legion.

Unfortunately Dust had too many bad times. Far more than the good times. I'm speaking from experience dating back to the close beta days. Thankfully, looking at Nova, the bad taste in my mouth left by Dust is going away. Slowly, but surely because now CCP is finally taking the advice that much of the Dust community has begged CCP to do. Although I didn't really expect CCP to actually go through with rebuilding the game down its original base code which is a gutsy move by itself.

Nova is a second chance if it does not get scrapped that is but will it suffer from the same problems that DUST suffered from? Will the same mistakes keep being repeated? will CCP actually learn anything? but then it is on PC which brings new challenges such as stopping cheaters with aimbots aswell as the lag switchers and possible mod abusers if they allow mods.

It's extremely unlikely that Nova will suffer what Dust suffered. For one there is CCP Rattati who has a clear record of making Dust great again even if it was for a short time. He was the reason we regained some hope. And any promises he made were actually backed up by visible progress. We saw Dust get better before our very eyes after Rattati took over. It was just too bad that Dust was on an aging platform with terrible legacy code that was the result of the bad leadership for Dust that existed long before Rattati came into the picture.

Second, Nova will NOT have Dust's legacy code at all. It will have the same assets but not the code which is the core of the problems that plagues Dust. This is also a good time for CCP to actually implement features and fixes that were never possible simply because of the bad legacy code.

Finally, there is the fact that expectations are finally being managed. No more hype train which means no more setting us all up for extreme disappointment like how they did with Dust.

End of the day i am taking everything CCP say with a big tanker full of salt until i see it actually implemented in the game.

I don't blame you. I have a skeptical view of this as well. Though not to the extent that you are now.

I think this is CCP last shot, they know it and we know it and unless it is really profitable they will not be afraid to pull the plug this time instead of letting it limp on.

Then let's make it worth it for CEO Hilmar Veigar to greenlight the project if you don't want to be disappointed again. Support Nova and let him know that we want this new game to succeed. https://twitter.com/HilmarVeigar

Because vehicles exist in DUST, Nova which is in the EVE universe without vehicles in a military setting where the lore itself has ground fights and armored vehicles would not make sense. WOW has no vehicles, it is swords and magic because that is the setting.

Of course WOW has no 'vehicles' a car wouldn't make sense, but mounted combat, such as dragons would, but they don't add that.

The lore of Dust also calls for giant repurposed mining mechs to be part of these fights. Once again military setting doesn't make vehicles mandatory.

You seem to be getting confused between mandatory and nice to have. Vehicles are not a mandatory part of a First Person Shooter, or an MMO, or an RPG or a Semi-Realistic Military Shooter. They are a nice to have, an enhancement, it literally cannot be made any clearer.

Null sec has no end game tied to it, it maybe the logical progression where you move from the safety of high to the risky area of low and then to no holds bar null but itself requires generally a large enough corp to be in/alliance in which it can defend itself/take part in defending areas for itself/alliance but it ends up being blob warfare in which a fight may break out but only if enough numbers are massed to win. This means 3hrs for a fleet to setup in which you are not guaranteed a fight because either you or the enemy does not have the numbers to make sure its a win or it gets that late in general that i fall asleep before anything happens. Also null is not for the small fry, DUST a small organized corp with some talanted players can defend there district, in EVE you get blobbed and whacked hard that you need an alliance to back you up with deep pockets.

So if your main gripe is that the End Game doesn't appear to have anything to do, why do you want to play an FPS where you are just shooting people with no nessercary goal, other than those you make your self. Also what do you expect to happen when you reach the end of game of NOVA.

NULL Sec and End Game is what you make it. It's defined by the goals you see for it. The developers won't hold your hand through the end game. If you have found the end game of pretty much MMO you have played boring, why are you still wanting to play another MMO?

It bored me, compared to FW or low sec in general in which feels more risky and you can get fights at a moments notice, null may have changed since i last played it but all i see is that you need lots of numbers and deep wallets.

While it may be nice to be a massive sponge and deal millions of damage unless its PVE does that not ruin the point of PVP if everyone is a massive sponge?

Once again if you think it's just players having massive health sponges you aren't really getting into the tactical depth of those "blob" fights. If everything is over in an instant does that not ruin the point of a tactical PVP?

It sounds like you expect flying or shooting skill to prevail in EVE a predominantly Command base tactical game.

Suits is simple, but would they just be in the game for another group to join? plus no leadership exactly unless your corp can also join the faction like it is in EVE with FW and you do things.

NPC (Non Player Corporations) don't need leadership they exist both in EvE and Nova to generate contracts and Enemies. If you start with CONCORD as everybody''s starting Corp, they then join a PMC (Player Made Corporation) when they are ready.

CONCORD generally blows **** up, unless it is going to brought into the game in the style of NATO except without blue helmets and generally being useless maybe it will work but players like to do bad things and will Nova have standings?

NOVA doesn't need to have standings to make CONCORD work. It's almost likely you completely ignore points sometimes.

CONCORD would have to be added later, more of a career option.

MMOFPS is how i see it and considering lore of EVE contains vehicles i would like to see vehicles and everything else.

Of course it would be nice to have Vehicles in NOVA that isn't being denied, but as we have stated to you the Bare Bones FPS Demo wouldn't have it.


Null sec is not what you make it because you need enough ISK/backing to be able to do it but the end game is what you make it thus if you want to be a market trader then set up shop in Jita but null is not needed.

Where do you think those corporations came from?

Nova end game will follow the same route as EVE i expect, null sec where corps fight it out over planets i hope with alliances in EVE backing them maybe even transporting various items needed but even then PVE i hope will be in, FW again and just general matches in high/low and NPC null so if you want you could never touch null but fight for FW but even then getting into null i assume will be easier than in EVE. But if Nova null is the same as EVE then will that punish smaller corps without the big money or alliances? that is the main problem of null, it is not end game but to be there requires alot, so much that a fair amount see it as end game anyways.

Agree with most of that.

There is massive sponges and then there is the headshot is a headshot, in EVE it is a gigantic ship which is 10km long and has armor and shields aswell as various defensive modules which ends up in massive fights which take hours or days in some extreme cases, i myself prefer smaller gang fights in EVE which generally is low sec and FW, in FPS while this can be fun since MAG the more the merrier and MAG TTK was kinda low when compared to DUST. While Nova is an FPS we have suits with armor and shields and various other things i hope which prolong life thus prolong TTK a bit.

So why are you complaining about bullet sponges and blob battles? You're going round in circles.

Tactics are great, skill is required to pull them off or break them.
Better Tactics van always win out over skill. But that's not what is really being discussed here.


Why would everyone start as CONCORD? You pick your race and bloodline and get put into an NPC corp for which ever race you are apart of, every race generally trains up there own soliders even to a basic level, thus you have the skills to move on if you wish.

Therein lies a good question, why do you choose a Race and Bloodline? What are it's benefits?

It also doesn't make sense that these NPC's who are distinct via race would all be using the same generic raceless suits?

Furthermore you don't have to start AS Concord, but you start with Concord Suits, which would be standard issue in High Security Space. Then in LOW Sec Racial Suits dominate the Market due to lowered restrictions on the selling of Combat Gear in Low Sec Stations, finally in Null Sec hacked racial variants become available from various Corporations operating out of the black market, which would come with unique bonuses/paint schemes.

Standings are apart of EVE espcially for the immortal players, so why is it not the same for the clones of Nova?
Indeed and they certainly have a place in NOVA along with FW and PC, but not right now and not necessarily for Concord.

A lot of tankers are supporting Nova

Whats ******* new?

Half the time i post for myself anyways.

Boundless optimism vs boundless pessimism.

The answer is green shotgun plasma.

Obviously, but this poor bast*rd isnt. He's just spitting salt everywhere.

Yeah, he's been doing this for ages.

You must have missed the fun Tanker threads of ages past.

Taking things with skepticism is fine, just dont be a bitter salty angry vet. It's annoying, and it certainly doesn't help anything. Just keep a level head, wait, and see what's to come. Trust me.

LOL it was actually nicely formatted. But anyway people should care, every qq, rage, or applause matters even just a little bit. You can't just pick and choose what you want to hear or else you'll be left with a very biased impression. CCP needs to take in all the criticism they can get now to avoid major negatives on release or the long-run. Once they do that then they can ignore the good and the bad, and see if the product is turning to what they are proud of.

Found the tanker, guys! Would you like some more salt in your Kool Aid?

What's wrong with pilots?

For the most part tankers and pilots were actually alright. However Taki and a friend of his ruined the reputation of other tankers with there attitudes.

Pretty much every other forum goer has had a "debate" with one of those two over vehicle balance and it pretty much the same way.

Logical Argument (T&S) - Logical Argument in Return
X4

Name Calling (T&S)
Bragging (T&S)
Declaration of pure Stupidity (T&S) example:
" It should take 5 people in a Co-ordinated effort to take down my tank with just me in it"
Logical Argument outlining the stupidity of the previous statement.
More Name Calling, Bragging and General stupidity. (T&S)
"You just want to blow tanks with a Pistol" (T&S)

And so ad-infitum

And i can replace all that with AV being stupid aswell, the sword goes both ways and that includes you monkey and breakin and quite a few more since AV outnumbered pilots 10 to 1 and as more pilots left less voices to be heard against the AV hordes.

Isn't that how you like it though... needing an entire team to bring down one pilot?