DUST514 is not complete and got the plug pulled and now 6 years later Nova is announced, not with a fanfare but a whimper, Hilmar didn't look too impressed and in the same breath said that CCP would not be afraid to axe failing projects which is a red flag to me since we know that CCP were not happy with DUST and Nova is still a unlit project.

Hilmar has always given 0 **** about the whole FPS idea, that's nothing new. What means is we have to provide enough support to the project to show its worth investing in.

What i saw was labeled as a 'tech demo' to showcase the game at its core and how it is going back to its roots as an FPS to fix the basic mechanics which is all well and good but if other mechanics are missing or just outright bad then you end up like MGO3 with great mechanics but shite gameplay.

Yeah a 'tech demo' means it's bare bones, it show cases the engine and core gameplay as a form of proof of concept. The concept being a solid space shooter. Other mechanics physically haven't been implemented yet. Like the fact a single map was played with no between lobby or anything else.

The demo was very basic, the map was small and no longer on a planet so that hinted at arena type maps and not open world which also means no vehicles or AV.

Of course the demo was basic, it's a demo, that's what demos are. A lot of people complained that DUST maps were to big. You spent too much time traipsing across flat open terrain between modules and objectives.

As for open air, Rattati has already confirmed that planets will be back and Asteroid Stations and other places will be available when it makes thematic sense. As for vehicles, yes for the time being they are gone until they are happy with the pure FPS side.

Players can quickly jump into a match but dev comments after stated that you can unlock more things for it the more you play that role, this is a bad decision and a dumbing down of the game and a forced restriction of the player choices. SP and skillbooks allow you to train up many skills which can improve your role even if you for a logi suit to be a slayer, look at EVE for direction again freedom to do what you want and how to do it.

As has been discussed to death, giving people complete control straight off the bat is a bad design choice for an FPS.

The idea is to ease players into a role before they start customising it. In DUST if you stack Shield extenders on a gallante you are going to die, a lot. If your new you won't understand why, you'll just assume the game is **** and leave. The same if you get in a Scout and put an Assault Rifle on it and charge headfirst into an objective.

By reducing the amount of initial choice, blame isn't placed on mechanics you are unaware, instead you blame yourself for being an inexperienced player, then you level up and get better and enjoy the game.

32 roles? I had more with my vehicles and even so the 4 different factions which will have the 3 different suits split up twice really does mean 8 roles which will be the same for the 4 factions so it is not really 32 roles if Logi features 4 times.

I'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish. 32 fittings is not 32 roles. Vehicles had at most 4 roles (Anti-Personnel, Anti-Vehicle, Mobile Spawn Point, Troop Transport) The point is that there are 3 weight classes, each with 2 base roles ( or 8 between them) each with 4 racial specialisations. Now in reality in terms of end of tree we are looking at one more class than we had.

Jump jets, talk about not learning from the myo problem where we currently have scouts jumping around like they are on the moon.

Slightly different, in that one is equipment and not stackable, the other is.

16v16 on PC for a supposedly MMO, we have had 16v16 on PS3 for 6 years where is the ambition? EVE has stupidly massive fleet fights, your novels and stories has massive fights in both space and ground so why not Nova?.

Baby Steps

A roundtable was nonexistant, no other information relating to the game was released or even expanded upon, very vauge statements released to gaming websites in which i have heard before many times years ago when DUST was around in that the game is looking to do x and we want to do y.

Welcome to Hilmar's attitude

I am a realist when it comes to any games these days, i know that EA will shaft you and that Ubisoft will rush something half finished and that CCP thinks big but fails to deliver unless it is EVE.

The Division waves from Ubisofts Corner, Mass Effect from EA's.

.

CEO does not care so what does that say for the game? Nothing good

So don't vindicate his position by whining. All your doing is showing him it's not worth the effort to invest because all your gonna do is complain.

Complete control over a role is better than forcing you to play that role to get other things, that complete control could easily be limited in tutorials and be expanded upon.

Complete Control is only good if you know what you are doing, how is it that you learn about what you should be doing . . . . . .experience, pish posh right? Who cares about new player experience or player retention right?


32 fittings can easily be 32 roles, the amount i had which did something different was staggering, while even one module may have been different it would mean that i would have to play differently with that fit.

Please list them then, every "role" and we will see if they can't be categorized into one of the 4 I gave you?

Jump jets are bad end of.
End of what? Opinion isn't fact. Jump jets are great for locomotion it also allows for shortcuts and other tactical play that not having them doesn't offer.

Baby steps was 6 years of DUST
Except it wasn't DUST was a giant leap too far into the Abyss, and even 6 years wasn't enough to correct all those initial mistakes.

As for the tech demo, yes bare bones but why not a bare bones for vehicles on an open world map? show that they are still there for the full MMO experience and possibly a simple video on SP and skills and possible future progression.

I don't think you understand what bare bones means. Vehicles are a whole level of extra complexity, if it's not showing modules or Loadout what makes you think they will include vehicles.

The division is ****, have you seen the end game? it does not exist because it gets to a point where you have enough health and recharge that you cannot kill them.

Yeah I'm in the End Game, I'm loving it. With the right gear I can still kill enemies pretty well, but Dark Zone extractions solo are still challenging.

ME where the end of the game is DLC.
Oh you mean the directors cut? You almost make it sound like the game didn't physically come with an ending, or that the rest of the franchise was ruined by it.

Great game examples proving my point.
If anything you are proving my point by whining about highly rated and revered games by pretty much most other people.

Quote like a normal person ffs.

CEO is not impressed by his own product, forget about what i think of it or the general playerbase should the CEO have confidence in what they are producing above all else?

I guess you missed the part where i said tutorials.
Tutorials aren't enough, given the games you play I should not have to explain that to you. In WOT you have to play to unlock better Loadout options, are you not contradicting yourself?

I would list them but that was 3 years ago when vehicles were useful and i have alot more modules/skills/turrets/hulls etc.
So no then Go Figure. 3 years ago I had 5 roles, Demolitions, Assault, Anti-Vehicle, Logistics Support and Close Air Ground Support. I had in total 26 fits which while each played differently but still only fulfilled one of those 5 roles.

Jump jets will get abused, anything with extra jumping gets abused.
Opinion, double jump is considerably better than bunny hoping or chop strafing and is much more predictable. Take Destiny for example, Vanguards with increased height is one of my favorite easy kills

DUST was 16v16 on PS3, on a more powerful system they still looking at 16v16 why not say that they would like to expand that, not even a hint just that 6v6 for testing then back to 16v16.
Because it's not a case of system power that's the problem. It's complexity, though if memory serves, Rattatai has been quoted for wanting to get above 16v16 eventually.

They did barebones for FPS infantry why not for vehicles, hell i would have been content with a simple video.
You are really struggling with this whole "bare bones" thing aren't you.

Quote:

bare-bones
adjective
adjective: bare-bones; adjective: barebones
reduced to or comprising only the basic or essential elements of something.
"a bare-bones version of the story"

Vehicles are not a basic or essential part of an FPS, therefore they will not be included in "Bare Bones" demo of an FPS game. I don't think I can make it any easier to understand.




Just because the majority enjoy said games does not mean that they are good.
Can we take a moment to appreciate that logic right there, it doesn't matter how many people like it, or enjoy it, it doesn't mean it's good. If only there were someway to quantify how good a game is . . . . .

the divisions lack of end game makes it like destiny
I don't think you understand the point, or meaning of "End Game"

and ME with its half an ending and then DLC content added on was a typical EA move,
It shows how much you know then the ending was Bioware, EA release the DLC version because people were up in arms about it, then stated that they wouldn't take down online footage of the ending.

it would be like if konami released the cut 51mission as DLC for MGS.
They might well do, nothing like a little extra money to line the pockets.

There is very little to be happy with concerning Nova, the only real thing i can be happy with is that it is on PC which allows for infinte possibilities and looking at EVE which is a damn good game that i do at times wish i still played and just do wish that Nova is the FPS version of EVE with all the skills/modules/vehicles/suits/weapons etc which allows of absolute freedom at the solo and corp level.
There is plenty to be happy about, we are finally in freaking spaceships, like we asked for. We have a full suit Roster with a 5th faction, plus the possibility for more.

Enjoying WOWs a hell of alot, WOT have not touched for a while, ETS2 for comfy moments, XCOM2 but need some key mods, XCOM EW for lolz, even old games like PES2010 and NHL08. I just find that new releases such as MGSV have been let downs and hype gets crushed hard.

You know besides the Jove there are more or less half a dozen other factions who could throw their lot in.... still I haven't actually heard about this 5th faction yet.

Could be a group like ORE (Outer Ring Excavations), The Upwell Consortium, The Society of Conscious Thought, The Servant Sisters of EVE, Mordu's Legion and those are without even listing the most recognisable pirate factions of the Serpentis, Guristas, Angel Cartel, Blood Raiders, and Sansha's Nation.


I'd honestly say the first five are more likely for us however as far as I know the Upwell Consortium don't actually both with small scale technologies.

WOT is different, everyone is in a tank and it does not cost to use it apart from repair and ammo, to progress in your logi suit would be far more efficent than me an a HAV and the rewards are the same yet if i get destroyed it cost me a far lot more.

It does not cost apart from repair and ammo. Neither does DUST if you don't die. So because everyone is in a Tank the mechanic by which you have to play a tank before you can unlock better fittings for said Tank is now acceptable?

But apparently that same common sense mechanic has no place in NOVA because . . . . . . .?

The system in DUST is fine as is because your SP can be placed where you want it to be and not where the game tells you or forces you.

The SP system is one of the biggest gripes new players have with DUST, it's confusing and unhelpful. The game doesn't advise you where to spend your SP, nor would it make sense to, but you can't stop someone specing into armor for a shield based suit.

I cannot remember 32 fits from 3 years ago.
Probably because you never consistently used all 32. And I'm only asking for their purpose, not each individual fitted module.

Vehicles are an essential part of an MMO.
No they are not.

Quote:

An MMO, or massively multiplayer online game, is a game that thousands of participants can play simultaneously over the internet. Some MMO games offer voice chat, in which players can wear a headset and talk to other unseen players online.

Take for example, World of Warcraft, no vehicle combat there.



End game, what to do at the end after you max it out,
Precisely, so what more content do you expect after you've maxed out the game?

Division just becomes a Sponge Shooter
Probably because you have poor gear. My Lvl 26 gear is still serving me pretty well after the Cap.

ME still got screwed.
Opinion, could have been a lot worse

5th faction, if it is the jovians it will suck, they should never be played and it should always be the 4 main factions and possibly later on or even at the start the pirate factions aswell but never jove.
Pirate and Sub factions would be further up the tree after the main race based on their allegiance. Or at least that is what I would expect.

You mean before CCP dissapoint, i aint making the game.

WOW is a dungeon game, i think with magic and fairytale stuff in which you obtain the sword of great something, not sure how a tank will fit in.

of course a tank wouldn't fit, why do you always assume tanks? The point is WOW the most well known MMO possibly of all time has no vehicle combat of any kind. Short of perhaps a set piece with catapults.

A vehicle, or vehicle/mounted combat is not an integral part of an MMO, the only MMO that I can think of that has both foot solider and vehicle combat is star Trek, maybe Star Wars but I didn't play that.

Take EVE, end game can be various things, end game may not even exist depending on how you see it, always something to do and to learn. I never reached end game with EVE, i did high sec and still did PVE/mining/exploration. low sec was FW fun apart from OGB and null i hated and bored me.

So you got bored of Null Sec, where the majority of players say the real game lives? What was it that bored you?

Get higher, it gets to a point where it becomes real spongy but i find low levels full of sponge too, DUST ttk is generally okay but a headshot is a headshot.

As someone on the the division forums said, if you think end-game is just bullet sponges then you don't understand the point of an mmorpg

Pirate and sub factions all work differently, mordu legion is mercs, blood raiders are pirates, one gets sent out on missions and the other drinks the blood of its victims i think.
But that doesn't stop them
1) Having there own suits,
2) Having one of the 4 main factions be there race type.

Deep inside the heart of every cynic is just a terribly, terribly disappointed optimist.



He's actually addressing the logical fallacy "argumentum ad populum" or 'appeal to the masses/popularity'. It is true that just because something is popular doesn't mean its objectively good, there are plenty of things that are "popular" but actually quite bad for you - like say smoking.

This is where informed opinions come in - a lot of people don't believe in say evolution, or climate change, but these people are non-experts with non-expert opinions that usually are not well reasoned or supported - so in effect their opinions do not matter compared to people who are experts and do have a lot of knowledge in the area.

There are amazing, wonderful, incredibly creative games out there that aren't very popular. There are games out there that are extremely popular but are a repackaging of something that was dated years ago.

Because vehicles exist in DUST, Nova which is in the EVE universe without vehicles in a military setting where the lore itself has ground fights and armored vehicles would not make sense. WOW has no vehicles, it is swords and magic because that is the setting.

Of course WOW has no 'vehicles' a car wouldn't make sense, but mounted combat, such as dragons would, but they don't add that.

The lore of Dust also calls for giant repurposed mining mechs to be part of these fights. Once again military setting doesn't make vehicles mandatory.

You seem to be getting confused between mandatory and nice to have. Vehicles are not a mandatory part of a First Person Shooter, or an MMO, or an RPG or a Semi-Realistic Military Shooter. They are a nice to have, an enhancement, it literally cannot be made any clearer.

Null sec has no end game tied to it, it maybe the logical progression where you move from the safety of high to the risky area of low and then to no holds bar null but itself requires generally a large enough corp to be in/alliance in which it can defend itself/take part in defending areas for itself/alliance but it ends up being blob warfare in which a fight may break out but only if enough numbers are massed to win. This means 3hrs for a fleet to setup in which you are not guaranteed a fight because either you or the enemy does not have the numbers to make sure its a win or it gets that late in general that i fall asleep before anything happens. Also null is not for the small fry, DUST a small organized corp with some talanted players can defend there district, in EVE you get blobbed and whacked hard that you need an alliance to back you up with deep pockets.

So if your main gripe is that the End Game doesn't appear to have anything to do, why do you want to play an FPS where you are just shooting people with no nessercary goal, other than those you make your self. Also what do you expect to happen when you reach the end of game of NOVA.

NULL Sec and End Game is what you make it. It's defined by the goals you see for it. The developers won't hold your hand through the end game. If you have found the end game of pretty much MMO you have played boring, why are you still wanting to play another MMO?

It bored me, compared to FW or low sec in general in which feels more risky and you can get fights at a moments notice, null may have changed since i last played it but all i see is that you need lots of numbers and deep wallets.

While it may be nice to be a massive sponge and deal millions of damage unless its PVE does that not ruin the point of PVP if everyone is a massive sponge?

Once again if you think it's just players having massive health sponges you aren't really getting into the tactical depth of those "blob" fights. If everything is over in an instant does that not ruin the point of a tactical PVP?

It sounds like you expect flying or shooting skill to prevail in EVE a predominantly Command base tactical game.

Suits is simple, but would they just be in the game for another group to join? plus no leadership exactly unless your corp can also join the faction like it is in EVE with FW and you do things.

NPC (Non Player Corporations) don't need leadership they exist both in EvE and Nova to generate contracts and Enemies. If you start with CONCORD as everybody''s starting Corp, they then join a PMC (Player Made Corporation) when they are ready.

CONCORD generally blows **** up, unless it is going to brought into the game in the style of NATO except without blue helmets and generally being useless maybe it will work but players like to do bad things and will Nova have standings?

NOVA doesn't need to have standings to make CONCORD work. It's almost likely you completely ignore points sometimes.

CONCORD would have to be added later, more of a career option.

MMOFPS is how i see it and considering lore of EVE contains vehicles i would like to see vehicles and everything else.

Of course it would be nice to have Vehicles in NOVA that isn't being denied, but as we have stated to you the Bare Bones FPS Demo wouldn't have it.


Null sec is not what you make it because you need enough ISK/backing to be able to do it but the end game is what you make it thus if you want to be a market trader then set up shop in Jita but null is not needed.

Where do you think those corporations came from?

Nova end game will follow the same route as EVE i expect, null sec where corps fight it out over planets i hope with alliances in EVE backing them maybe even transporting various items needed but even then PVE i hope will be in, FW again and just general matches in high/low and NPC null so if you want you could never touch null but fight for FW but even then getting into null i assume will be easier than in EVE. But if Nova null is the same as EVE then will that punish smaller corps without the big money or alliances? that is the main problem of null, it is not end game but to be there requires alot, so much that a fair amount see it as end game anyways.

Agree with most of that.

There is massive sponges and then there is the headshot is a headshot, in EVE it is a gigantic ship which is 10km long and has armor and shields aswell as various defensive modules which ends up in massive fights which take hours or days in some extreme cases, i myself prefer smaller gang fights in EVE which generally is low sec and FW, in FPS while this can be fun since MAG the more the merrier and MAG TTK was kinda low when compared to DUST. While Nova is an FPS we have suits with armor and shields and various other things i hope which prolong life thus prolong TTK a bit.

So why are you complaining about bullet sponges and blob battles? You're going round in circles.

Tactics are great, skill is required to pull them off or break them.
Better Tactics van always win out over skill. But that's not what is really being discussed here.


Why would everyone start as CONCORD? You pick your race and bloodline and get put into an NPC corp for which ever race you are apart of, every race generally trains up there own soliders even to a basic level, thus you have the skills to move on if you wish.

Therein lies a good question, why do you choose a Race and Bloodline? What are it's benefits?

It also doesn't make sense that these NPC's who are distinct via race would all be using the same generic raceless suits?

Furthermore you don't have to start AS Concord, but you start with Concord Suits, which would be standard issue in High Security Space. Then in LOW Sec Racial Suits dominate the Market due to lowered restrictions on the selling of Combat Gear in Low Sec Stations, finally in Null Sec hacked racial variants become available from various Corporations operating out of the black market, which would come with unique bonuses/paint schemes.

Standings are apart of EVE espcially for the immortal players, so why is it not the same for the clones of Nova?
Indeed and they certainly have a place in NOVA along with FW and PC, but not right now and not necessarily for Concord.

Yeah, he's been doing this for ages.

You must have missed the fun Tanker threads of ages past.

What's wrong with pilots?

Isn't that how you like it though... needing an entire team to bring down one pilot?

It's a giant killing machine vs a meat suit. Of course it should take more than one person to destroy it.

Wait wait wait. How did a thread about p!ssing on a demo become a necro av/v thread?

I suppose you're right though. 649 previous posts just didn't nail the points hard enough. Mybad. Carry on!

I've been watching both sides for a long time. Problem is, everybody shat on vehicles and pilots, whereas the pilots had legitimate grievances. Homing grenades that did ~1800 damage against unprotected armor EACH. You really think that's balanced? Swarms that could lock on behind objects and rocks, and be fire straight up to avoid it all. That's balanced? Back when swarms and infantry wouldn't register at all for those in dropships. You think it's just fine for such an investment as an ADS to get brayed from basically nowhere? How about when swarm lock on range was 400m. Was that fair?

So basically you wanted Call of Duty in space because vehicles didn't fit the extremely narrow role you wanted them to.