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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
209
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Posted - 2015.12.21 20:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Moved from another thread:
Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age...
Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid?
We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something.
In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone.
For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance.
Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does.
I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do.
All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. |
Radiant Pancake3
2
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was coming here expecting a Link to an IQ test but I came disappointed...
Port Confirmed.
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Operative 1174 Uuali
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
1
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Clone count and needles. Look it up.
I.Q. Or age? For me it's the alcohol.
CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
209
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 21:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Radiant Pancake3 wrote:I was coming here expecting a Link to an IQ test but I came disappointed... Sorry, no, just another one of my stream of consciousness ramblings... :)
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
209
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 21:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Clone count and needles. Look it up.
I.Q. Or age? For me it's the alcohol. I still don't see the point. Yes, I know about clone count, and I know about needles. Finishing off a clone forces a reduction of 1 in the clone count. But most battles don't finish with one side depleted. Therefore finishing off a clone in most battles doesn't gain you or your side anything and puts the player back into the match. |
maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
2
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
I never call for help since I'm usually the logi. I.just terminate and respawn because I have to baby a team of blueberry slayers.
I never terminate fallen clones unless its an explosive kill(install dead) or its officer they are wearing.
Most of the time they just choose to respawn anyway.
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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REDBACK96USMC
NORTH K0REA
247
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out.
If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone.
Better just to finish them off. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
210
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:I never call for help since I'm usually the logi. I.just terminate and respawn because I have to baby a team of blueberry slayers.
I never terminate fallen clones unless its an explosive kill(install dead) or its officer they are wearing.
Most of the time they just choose to respawn anyway. I almost always just respawn. Unless there's a logi or medic nearby when I might give them some points (and save a fit) by calling for help, that is.
If I' nowhere near anyone else, I just respawn. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
210
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 21:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
REDBACK96USMC wrote:If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out.
If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone.
Better just to finish them off. Why are they stuck with a 10 second spawn? And even if it's 10 seconds how is it better to get them back into the match (on the other team) than to let them lay there waiting and then have to respawn anyway? What benefit is there to you or your team to finish them off? Do you get more points? Is there some bonus to you for getting the other team's player back into the match faster?
Please do elaborate. I still can't see how finishing off a clone benefits you or your team in any way. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
210
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 21:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:REDBACK96USMC wrote:If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out.
If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone.
Better just to finish them off. Why are they stuck with a 10 second spawn? And even if it's 10 seconds how is it better to get them back into the match (on the other team) than to let them lay there waiting and then have to respawn anyway? What benefit is there to you or your team to finish them off? Do you get more points? Is there some bonus to you for getting the other team's player back into the match faster? Please do elaborate. I still can't see how finishing off a clone benefits you or your team in any way. Also, the time taken to ritualisticly terminate a clone, sometimes quite some distance away, takes YOU out of the battle for some time as well. |
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Dead Cavino
Lunatic.High
164
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
I can think of a few strategic reasons to clone redberries out. Just a few of the top of my head. 1. Games that come down do clone count. ie. both teams have 10 clones left, cloning the enemy could mean victory over defeat. 2. If the downed enemy is in a squad, then their passive scans stay up until they bleed out.
I don't like two-legged things.
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THEAMAZING POTHEAD
House of Blue Leaves
1
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
all cases where finishing clones off is done- explosives obviously headshots for snipers or heavy vs heavy or people standing still in pc to help prevent spawning speed in general, a grenade allows you to chuck and forget in pubs when you kill someone near their cru or hidden uplink or obj to give time for removal of spawn point when you've seen redberries use needles when you're in a meat grinder and they have logis when you killed an officer or exp gear scrubby when ya just wanna unload your entire magazine into ****** deads body like youre the bear jew
Corps: P.R.O.---O.H.---Not Guilty/Pure Innocence---Nyain San---T.o.P.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
I terminate clones as a matter of habit. I don't like people recovering behind me.
Because why not?
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jett it
S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D General Tso's Alliance
579
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Upon taking my IQ test the results came back Inconclusive.
I think I might have broked something.
http://www.youtube.com/c/jettGaming
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bane sieg
Eternal Beings
535
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
You come in here talking about IQ but don't understand why it's smart to terminate clones. Ever lose a battle by just a few clones? Had you terminated some clones you might have won. If you really want to understand the importance of terminating clones go play some pc where every clone counts.
My entire dust career can be summed up in one sentence:
"Well, that didn't f#cking go as planned"
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Apoleon II
Rooky rooks
33
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
I do it because I like it, if you are talking about IQ or age....... Wtf. Maybe sir you should turn off your ps3 an search the cure of the cancer, I can't type more, I'm in battle, so, excuse me
Sorry for my bad english :$
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
813
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 21:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
"What? Someone's living their life differently than me? Better question their intelligence before anything else."
[85.8m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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benandjerrys
WarRavens Imperium Eden
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 21:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Provi bloc!?!
Free isk! (comment with in game name)
#portdust514
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Ahkhomi Cypher
Opus Arcana
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 22:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you terminate a clone you actually force them to take a longer spawn time. Therefore taking them out of battle longer.
Also
If the clone isnt terminated it will still provide passive scans. This is especially dangerous because the inner scan ring of suits can get strong enough to pick up scouts.
One unterminated Logi with precision can still light up key areas and essentially turn into alert beacons for scouts that run by them.
Tyrant King, Opus Arcana
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
8
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quote: Hence the average IQ of most redberries. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance.
That would totally be legit, except for the fact that most players - including myself - simply spam circle and don't bother waiting for a revive.
RIP Nova Knifers United
Aspiring Pilot
Boyko
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aussy sledge
ScReWeD uP InC Devil's Descendants
19
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. You know.... You can spawn while your clone is dying, once you spawn in though it terminates the clone..
Spreading freedom to all my fellow dust bunnies!
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DEV Stupid Head
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.12.21 23:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Absolutely not
Always double tap if possible
Destroys the clone and cannot be revived
aaaaaannd killing the clone does do something else......it is very subtle and I'm not going to tell you what it is...... |
Russel Mendoza
Klandatu
365
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 23:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
When i play as a logi dropping uplink and hives then see a dying teammate i drop repair hives at them not injecting needles. Sometimes i mistakenly throw grenades aat them. It was a mistake i assurre you. Promise. Scouts honor and all that.
I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!!
Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu"
Vehicle request accepted.
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Daemonn Adima
Eternal Beings
703
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 23:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
I kill em so they cant be picked up again. A lone sniper out in a field? No need. I only go out of my way to terminate a clone if it seems like they could be resurrected. |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
576
|
Posted - 2015.12.22 00:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
When you terminate someones clone, the respawn timers don't auto-countdown. As long as their clone is alive, the spawns keep counting down to 3 seconds (if they start at a base of 10 seconds). As said above it also ensures 1 clone is lost immediately from the clone count, prevents them from being revives, but it also ensures that any ISK value of that suit is lost.
1. Officer Suits/Weapon wielding suits - Terminating clones ensures that equipment is lost, and cannot be recovered via logi needle. Officer Equipped suits are always terminated regardless of likelihood of needles nearby.
2. Sentinels (and heavies in general) - Fewer things in this game are as frightening to a support troop as an amarr sentinel standing back up at 100% HP.
3. PRO Logistics Suits - Ensure the greatest ISK damage done to the enemy team. Almost always carry high tier uplinks as well
4. Assaults/Scouts - Very dangerous if picked back up
5. All other suits
Also, I will terminate clones as a follow up to breaching into a meat-grinder (with a flux grenade) to ensure there is no chance of any of the above getting resurrected by logis that spawn in or haven't been eliminated yet.
I have found that more often than not when I'm running a punching commando, suits are terminated by my fist anyway, so there is rarely any need to stop.
When Sniping, Terminating Sentinels and Caldari Assault Suits takes priority over killing living assault suits (but is below killing logis and other snipers), to give my advancing teammates optimal chances and maximize my rifle's effectiveness.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
9
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Posted - 2015.12.22 01:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Clone count and needles. Look it up.
I.Q. Or age? For me it's the alcohol. I still don't see the point. Yes, I know about clone count, and I know about needles. Finishing off a clone forces a reduction of 1 in the clone count. But most battles don't finish with one side depleted. Therefore finishing off a clone in most battles doesn't gain you or your side anything and puts the player back into the match. I finish people off most of the time. Couple of reasons that have not been covered here Passive scans are active while clones are down but not terminated. This is shared with their squad. Spawn times vary based on termination. A terminated clone has 10 seconds to spawn in most cases, a non terminated clone has 5 seconds and counts down to 3. This is based off CRU and Starting spawn points, and variations in numbers occurs depending on links values and Amarr Logi bonus. Bottom line is t does change the spawn time. Personally if no one terminates me I will take the revive if I expect it to happen quickly and without incident. I will be watching from the spawn screen and if a better spawn is available I've got a plan on where to go and what course of action I take.
MOAR Ladders
SpadeGǪ Remember your Warbarge
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Jammeh McJam
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
453
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Posted - 2015.12.22 01:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
The sooner they respawn, the sooner you can kill them again, which means:
- Better KD (for those that care) - Higher isk payout at the end of battle (terminating a lot of proto suits gets you a lot more isk, if they aren't proto, who cares it's more isk) - Eliminates any chance they had at getting picked back up.
There are more positives than negatives tbh.
Steam name - Jammeh McJam
PC master race
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GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
200
|
Posted - 2015.12.22 15:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Since we don't water board a dirt nap is most appropriate. |
shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
5
|
Posted - 2015.12.22 16:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
There is actually something to gain if you terminate the body quickly.
- no revive
- must wait the entire spawn time
Camouflage master =ƒÄà
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
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Posted - 2015.12.22 16:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
In Dust, you have 20 seconds to bleed out, I think. 10 of those seconds are seconds you could wait for a respawn instead. 7 of those could be removed by waiting 7 seconds. Meaning, if you wait 7 for seconds on bleed out, you could have 3 second spawns (if from a 10s spawner).
Killing the clone as soon as it drops makes the player have to wait the full respawn time, whether it's 10 in a normal spawner, or 15 in a freaking Militia Uplink.
Most people don't wait to bleed out calling for a nonexistent medic, so killing them just makes their time longer.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Bax Zanith
Sinfonia1898
245
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Posted - 2015.12.22 18:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
The only time it's useful is when you are aiming to take a CRU, and you just killed the guy who's onto your antics. By double tapping him, you have 10 seconds to hack the CRU. If you don't double tap, he'll respawn and shoot you in the back before you even get half way.
When a CRU is not involved, I see it as simply adding insult to injury.
"You're either the cow or the butcher."
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
1
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Posted - 2015.12.22 18:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
For me this is situational.
If I kill a random on the fringes. He lays there dead.
Heavy logi team. If I drop the heavy I go for logi. It's very rare to see 80% or better needles, so a revived heavy is an easy kill. Killing the logi I will finish with a flux, any old blue could have a dirty needle for him.
Randoms, hardly ever. (Unless you were a pain...)
Jumpers. Every time. Full mag.
Officer/exp/pro. Of course. In the end that's the true spirit of our game.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
7
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Posted - 2015.12.22 19:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
1.If you allow them to lay there the timer for any uplinks and CRU are decreased allowing for a quicker respawn.
2.If they get revived they'll be next to other clones which in a sense increases the possible dps you'll be taking if seen.
3.They'll be in a group with a guy who can bring them back to 100% health (depends)
4.If they're damp'd up it'll be a lot harder to know where they're coming from.
5.You always want a battle in your favor, taking one guy out of the match for as long as possible gives you the upper hand.
I only deal in absolutes
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Lightning35 Delta514
The Warlords Legion
3
|
Posted - 2015.12.22 19:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner.
I mean, every now and then I will finish off a clone. Especially when i see many logis on the field. And since I always run ion pistol, I don't worry about ammo. Charge shots do the trick.
CEO of T-W-L
YT- LD3514
Gallente Loyalist- ION PISTOL FOR LIFE! GFQ!
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MrShooter01
Ustio Mercenary Squadron
1
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Posted - 2015.12.22 20:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:REDBACK96USMC wrote:If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out.
If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone.
Better just to finish them off. Why are they stuck with a 10 second spawn? And even if it's 10 seconds how is it better to get them back into the match (on the other team) than to let them lay there waiting and then have to respawn anyway? What benefit is there to you or your team to finish them off? Do you get more points? Is there some bonus to you for getting the other team's player back into the match faster? Please do elaborate. I still can't see how finishing off a clone benefits you or your team in any way.
Allow me
When you are bleeding out in dust, every second you spend on the ground is subtracted from your respawn time, down to a minimum of 3 seconds. This is why you see the timer counting down on all available spawns on the map when you mash "continue" after getting downed. You can take a quick look at the map while your timers are going down, assess where you are needed most, change fits, and by the time you're ready to deploy you'll be there in 3 seconds. This really helps when your team has crappy standard or mediocre advanced drop uplinks down.
Even the few seconds it takes for the Killed By window to appear and load up the map count, you'll often be down to 6-5 seconds if you're trying to select a spawn as quick as you can, and every second counts when you want to spawn back on a control point being attacked by the enemy. If a spawn point pops or gets hacked, you'll only waste a few moments spawning on the next nearest one. AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, YOU CAN STILL BE REVIVED. You can call for help before even opening up the map and looking around, and until you actually select a spawn point, you're revivable. You can actively monitor your corpse on the map and determine whether or not it is likely you will be revived, and pretty much immediately respawn anywhere you want if it doesn't look good.
But when someone terminates your clone, THE RESPAWN TIMER DOESN'T COUNT DOWN UNTIL YOU SELECT A SPAWN. Don't take my word for it, go start a domination/skirmish map, intentionally fall to your death from the MCC. Observe the spawn times. Now overcook a grenade or sit on top of a RE. Observe the longer spawn times.
Every single second you spend waiting for the kill screen to load after being terminated, pressing continue, and selecting a point on the map to respawn is working against your team. Now you're taking upwards of 15-20 seconds to spawn when you add all those seconds together, and the things that can go wrong will start piling up. You can't react to a point or CRU being hacked because they WILL finish the hack before you spawn in, and you'll have just wasted that attempt. The uplink you spent 10 seconds waiting on after selecting it can pop... maybe the control point/CRU gets hacked when you were down to 2 seconds... and each time, you're back to waiting the full spawn time of every alternative spawn point you try. Tried to spawn on two uplinks that both popped? You've wasted another 15 seconds, and you still need to wait at least 10 seconds on your next attempt!
If you're really lucky, someone on your team might have proto uplinks and be alive on the field as a max skill amarr logi giving you a 4-6 second spawn option. Cause if they're dead or changed classes, you're back to 8-10+ seconds.
Terminating the clone of someone defending a point can decide whether you'll successfully hack it, or if you'll get shotgunned by the same guy.
When you terminate a clone with an explosive weapon or by shooting their corpse, you are potentially wasting enormous amounts of their time in the match... kind of like your Alliance's tactic in EVE. You were keeping people out of battle for longer by letting their pod live. But this isn't EVE, and you tried to apply that tactic without correctly adapting it to suit the game. Here, you're slowing down their respawn by terminating them.
Not that you should ALWAYS terminate every chance you get, not every tactic is one-size-fits-all. As you know, keeping your sights on someone you expect to call for a revive can get you a bonus kill on them and maybe the logi too.
This is a game mechanic that has been around as far as I know since the beginning, though I've only noticed it since the patch that significantly nerfed spawn times on uplinks. WHY it works this way? I couldn't tell you. I didn't design the damn game. But that's the way it is. Something you should have noticed, asked about, or been told about before now. Definitely before making a thread about "the IQ or age of dust players" implying everyone else acting on information you don't know about to be some low IQ children unworthy of playing the same game as you.
Which doesn't reflect very well on your own maturity btw
TL:DR All spawn timers count down while bleeding out allowing you to get back to battle faster if you choose not to be revived, they don't while you're terminated and you must wait the full 10 seconds every time, you should therefore terminate your enemy if the situation allows and you don't want to be shot in the back by them too soon |
Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
814
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Posted - 2015.12.22 20:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Flawless explanation^
[85.8m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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jett it
S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D General Tso's Alliance
585
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Posted - 2015.12.22 20:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
I am the dude that will kill a heavy run away wait for that heavies logi to pick them up run back and then kill the heavy again and the logi cloning them both 3 for the price of 2 clones.
Now thats using your IQ...
As for my age i am 115 years old and thats going by dust lifetime SP. lel.
http://www.youtube.com/c/jettGaming
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
212
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Posted - 2015.12.22 21:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dead Cavino wrote:I can think of a few strategic reasons to clone redberries out. Just a few of the top of my head. 1. Games that come down do clone count. ie. both teams have 10 clones left, cloning the enemy could mean victory over defeat. 2. If the downed enemy is in a squad, then their passive scans stay up until they bleed out.
1. Yes, when you're down to 10 clones each side, finishing off a clone makes sense. When you do it during a match with ample clones on both sides, there's no point.
MY point is that the majority of players seem to finish off downed clones not because of any strategic reason, but just because it's expected to do so. I maintain that if anyone thought about this, and resisted the urge to violence of finishing off a downed clone just to "complete the kill", you would realise it's best to just leave them lying there. I maintain that anyone with a strategic view of this would generally NOT finish off a clone unless and until the end of a match if the other side was down to critical numbers. |
benandjerrys
warravens Imperium Eden
1
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Posted - 2015.12.22 21:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:Provi bloc!?! https://youtu.be/m6lJGddizTQWell from a fellow bloccer This technique is used by those clone count sensitive. Every clone matters. Your position is about to get overrun you don't want that -1 become a +1. That loss in isk efficiency is also negated over one needle spike. Killing a clone is also one less data point to the other side they see the needle indication not you, that body is broadcasted regardless of comms that enables the enemy to know that you are within 50 meters regardless on how dampened you are. Tl;Dr Term your clones.
I agree with your EvE logic of holding the pod, but this ain't eggo wars m8
Free isk! (comment with in game name)
#portdust514
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Apoleon II
Rooky rooks
34
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Posted - 2015.12.22 21:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Dead Cavino wrote:I can think of a few strategic reasons to clone redberries out. Just a few of the top of my head. 1. Games that come down do clone count. ie. both teams have 10 clones left, cloning the enemy could mean victory over defeat. 2. If the downed enemy is in a squad, then their passive scans stay up until they bleed out.
1. Yes, when you're down to 10 clones each side, finishing off a clone makes sense. When you do it during a match with ample clones on both sides, there's no point. MY point is that the majority of players seem to finish off downed clones not because of any strategic reason, but just because it's expected to do so. I maintain that if anyone thought about this, and resisted the urge to violence of finishing off a downed clone just to "complete the kill", you would realise it's best to just leave them lying there. I maintain that anyone with a strategic view of this would generally NOT finish off a clone unless and until the end of a match if the other side was down to critical numbers. Maybe,but you MUST do a teabag
Sorry for my bad english :$
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sir RAVEN WING
RabbitGang
5
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Posted - 2015.12.22 21:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. I find, at the current, that it is largely useless to terminate a lone wolf clone in Pubs. However, I still do it a lot of the time, especially in PC or FW, because needles are more common then.
Why exactly do I 'clone' them? Well, in FW and PC, they are likely going to be in a squad, which means they will likely have a logi and more guns. They call for help and that could mean more guns aiming at you.
They get sent back faster, and lose a clone. - This helps work to cloning their them. They die and die.
In some instances, the players will come back for revenge. It is possible to use this to your advantage and kill them again.
It's irritating - Throws them off their game just a bit, especially if you killed them with a weapon like a locus, or NKs.
I seriously have felt as if I was one of the few who cloned downed players.
=ƒç+=ƒç¬
Retired Merc... for now.
"it's just buried by 3 pages." - Cat Merc
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:all cases where finishing clones off is done- explosives obviously headshots for snipers or heavy vs heavy or people standing still in pc to help prevent spawning speed in general, a grenade allows you to chuck and forget in pubs when you kill someone near their cru or hidden uplink or obj to give time for removal of spawn point when you've seen redberries use needles when you're in a meat grinder and they have logis when you killed an officer or exp gear scrubby when ya just wanna unload your entire magazine into ****** deads body like youre the bear jew. edit* h1tlers censored because ccp are lizard people. Excluding the cases where a clone is terminated as part of the initial kill -
Quote:in pc to help prevent spawning speed in general, a grenade allows you to chuck and forget
How does that benefit you or your team? It would only work if you expect them to respawn immediately. If they were however going to call for help, they could be sitting there waiting for 20 seconds for help to arrive before being forced to respawn anyway...
All you are doing is speeding up their respawning, not slowing it down.
Quote:when ya just wanna unload your entire magazine into ****** deads body like youre the bear jew.
This is more like the sort of reason I think people are doing it, but it's misguided. Finishing off the clone doesn't achieve enough of a time benefit to my mind - you're better off just leaving them there to stew. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I terminate clones as a matter of habit. I don't like people recovering behind me. Yes, exactly. It's a habit. And I believe it's pointless, because they will "recover" anyway, when they respawn. You've won your points, if you just leave them there hoping to be revived, you've kept them out of the battle that little big longer. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
bane sieg wrote: You come in here talking about IQ but don't understand why it's smart to terminate clones. Ever lose a battle by just a few clones? Had you terminated some clones you might have won. If you really want to understand the importance of terminating clones go play some pc where every clone counts. Yes, undeniably there are times when terminating clones is strategicly important. But not all the time. When the other side (or even your side for that matter) is down to just a few clones and you want them to run out before you do, that's the time to terminate them, not during the battle when you can keep them out of the battle by leaving them there. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
Apoleon II wrote:I do it because I like it, if you are talking about IQ or age....... Wtf. Maybe sir you should turn off your ps3 an search the cure of the cancer, I can't type more, I'm in battle, so, excuse me Exactly.
Quote:I do it because I like it
At least you're honest. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:"What? Someone's living their life differently than me? Better question their intelligence before anything else." lol It doesn't bother me. I just think it's pointless and stupid. In my case, I habitually respawn anyway because I don't like hanging around waiting for a medic. But given there are people who would do so, leaving them there to wait is a much more beneficial thing to do for your team because 1. it keeps them out of the battle that much longer 2. they might actually succeed in calling for help and you can take out both them and their help when it arrives 3. you don't waste time terminating the clone.
Yes, I do question the intelligence of anyone who does something pointless and self-defeating without thinking. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:Provi bloc!?! https://youtu.be/m6lJGddizTQWell from a fellow bloccer This technique is used by those clone count sensitive. Every clone matters. Your position is about to get overrun you don't want that -1 become a +1. That loss in isk efficiency is also negated over one needle spike. Killing a clone is also one less data point to the other side they see the needle indication not you, that body is broadcasted regardless of comms that enables the enemy to know that you are within 50 meters regardless on how dampened you are. Tl;Dr Term your clones. Yes, I see your points. I don't agree with them as the basis for terminating clones. If you leave them lying there, they will be taken out of the battle for much longer unless of course they choose to respawn.
I guess the people who see the point in terminating clones will never see the point in deliberately not doing so and vice versa.
Quote:Well from a fellow bloccer It was fun wasn't it?! :) |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 03:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ahkhomi Cypher wrote:If you terminate a clone you actually force them to take a longer spawn time. Therefore taking them out of battle longer.
Thanks for explaining that. Yes, I can see how that would work IF they were not going to call for help, but just respawn. I think it probably comes down to your own habits. If you tend to respawn rather than call for help yourself, you are probably going to expect others to do the same.
Quote:Also
If the clone isnt terminated it will still provide passive scans. This is especially dangerous because the inner scan ring of suits can get strong enough to pick up scouts. With that many of the enemy around you're going to take the time to terminate a clone?....
Quote: One unterminated Logi with precision can still light up key areas and essentially turn into alert beacons for scouts that run by them.
Yes, this makes sense. I think there are some strategic things in what you are saying, but for pubs it seems a bit over the top. Maybe for FW or PC... |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Quote: Hence the average IQ of most redberries. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance.
That would totally be legit, except for the fact that most players - including myself - simply spam circle and don't bother waiting for a revive. Yes, exactly as I suspected was the reason at least some people habitually terminate the clone. Do you know that most players do this? How do you know that? I do myself, unless there's a medic nearby, in which case the enemy has already been taken out or has left the scene. It takes much longer to wait for help than it does to be forced to respawn. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
aussy sledge wrote:You know.... You can spawn while your clone is dying, once you spawn in though it terminates the clone.. Yes, of course. I do it all the time, unless there's a medic nearby, in which case I call for help, but sometimes the help doesn't arrive for a very long time, 20s or more. If the red had terminated my clone, I would have respawned faster. |
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
DEV Stupid Head wrote:Absolutely not
Always double tap if possible
Destroys the clone and cannot be revived
aaaaaannd killing the clone does do something else......it is very subtle and I'm not going to tell you what it is...... Yes, I know, if feels good. I've done it myself, when I saw others do it, early on, and wondered what the benefit is. I determined there is non, all the arguments for it notwithstanding. Well, yes, there is a benefit, but it's not enough to outweigh the benefit of just leaving them there to stew. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Russel Mendoza wrote:When i play as a logi dropping uplink and hives then see a dying teammate i drop repair hives at them not injecting needles. Sometimes i mistakenly throw grenades aat them. It was a mistake i assurre you. Promise. Scouts honor and all that. lol Yes of course... |
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
901
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. Brings down clone count fast, and you can respawn while incapacitated. Are we done here?
Just a Caldari living the clean life. ( -í° -£-û -í°) No.
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:When you terminate someones clone, the respawn timers don't auto-countdown. As long as their clone is alive, the spawns keep counting down to 3 seconds (if they start at a base of 10 seconds). As said above it also ensures 1 clone is lost immediately from the clone count, prevents them from being revives, but it also ensures that any ISK value of that suit is lost.
1. Officer Suits/Weapon wielding suits - Terminating clones ensures that equipment is lost, and cannot be recovered via logi needle. Officer Equipped suits are always terminated regardless of likelihood of needles nearby.
2. Sentinels (and heavies in general) - Fewer things in this game are as frightening to a support troop as an amarr sentinel standing back up at 100% HP.
3. PRO Logistics Suits - Ensure the greatest ISK damage done to the enemy team. Almost always carry high tier uplinks as well
4. Assaults/Scouts - Very dangerous if picked back up
5. All other suits
Also, I will terminate clones as a follow up to breaching into a meat-grinder (with a flux grenade) to ensure there is no chance of any of the above getting resurrected by logis that spawn in or haven't been eliminated yet.
I have found that more often than not when I'm running a punching commando, suits are terminated by my fist anyway, so there is rarely any need to stop.
When Sniping, Terminating Sentinels and Caldari Assault Suits takes priority over killing living assault suits (but is below killing logis and other snipers), to give my advancing teammates optimal chances and maximize my rifle's effectiveness. Points taken. Some of this seems somewhat vindictive and not necessarily of much benefit in the current battle, but it sounds reasonable. I personally still think this is very over-the-top, particularly for pubs, unless you're a stomper. For FW and PC, yes, this makes sense. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:The sooner they respawn, the sooner you can kill them again, which means:
- Better KD (for those that care) - Higher isk payout at the end of battle (terminating a lot of proto suits gets you a lot more isk, if they aren't proto, who cares it's more isk) - Eliminates any chance they had at getting picked back up.
There are more positives than negatives tbh. Of these, the only one that strikes me as different from what anyone else has said is:
Quote:Higher isk payout at the end of battle (terminating a lot of proto suits gets you a lot more isk, if they aren't proto, who cares it's more isk)
I thought ISK payout was based on your share of the takings, proportional to your share of WP from the match. Do you have some definitive sources to say what you are saying is the case? |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
Bax Zanith wrote:The only time it's useful is when you are aiming to take a CRU, and you just killed the guy who's onto your antics. By double tapping him, you have 10 seconds to hack the CRU. If you don't double tap, he'll respawn and shoot you in the back before you even get half way.
When a CRU is not involved, I see it as simply adding insult to injury. Agreed! |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
You gain additional payout from finishing off a clone. This is a fact.
This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
Devadander wrote:For me this is situational. If I kill a random on the fringes. He lays there dead. Heavy logi team. If I drop the heavy I go for logi. It's very rare to see 80% or better needles, so a revived heavy is an easy kill. Killing the logi I will finish with a flux, any old blue could have a dirty needle for him. Randoms, hardly ever. (Unless you were a pain...) Jumpers. Every time. Full mag. Officer/exp/pro. Of course. In the end that's the true spirit of our game. Wow. I so often agree with you, Devandander. Especially:
Quote:Jumpers. Every time. Full mag. I hate those guys! :) |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
533
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:(...)
All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. Well, I have feelings that majority of Dust player-base right now is around 12-14yr old, but it has nothing to do with 'finishing clone'. I think you incorrectly judge it, partially because you are trying to compare it to EVE mechanic in way like it is only a pleasure to harass people by killing they pode, because then they will have bigger problem and will wining even more because of it - both mechanic in Dust, and in EVE has something in common, but it has nothing to do with dealing more pain to the victim, it is more about tactical kill.
Examples: 1) 1v1 - Two players fight on CRU: One of them hacked CRU earlier but he is in militia suit, second one came to hack it with his adv suit - he have advantage over his opponent and killing him fast, but he is not killing his clone, he goes straight to CRU to hack it(unfortunately he do not have hacking module, or MM S suit, all he have is Hacking on lvl1). So, the guy who just die in militia suit patiently and calmly right after drooping on the floors go to spawn screen, then chose fully tanked suit and spawn on CRU to finish off his harmed and nothing expected opponent. Normally if player who came to hack CRU would finish off enemy clone by trowing grenade, guy would not have enough time to spawn on the same CRU, because of 10 seconds penalty before another spawn OR if he would have Hacking skill on lvl3 or beyond (if I'm correct). Same story for hacking nulls terminals. (And I'm gone point it once again - the longer you stay on incapacitated mode the faster you will be able to redeploy to battle. People who die hard always need to wait 10sec. If someone destroy uplink they were about to spawn, then they have another 10 sec of waiting on another uplink. )
2) Another 1v1, but this time one of the players is AScout and he have squad: So two players come across and one of them killing another surprisingly fast, he is happy that he survive and save his officer fit. But what he is not aware is that the guy who he just droop incapacitated is Amarr Scout with e-war fit; and despite that fact that he is dead and he can not kill him he keep realign his 50+ meter passive scanner that light up every redberry in his radius to his squad build up from H/L. They came and **** officer apart. If officer-guy would kill incapacited Scout he would instantly drop from passive scanner. Game is constructed in way that you have no idea that entire team sees you on passive.
3) Scout-shootty v. Squad of 4. Long story, short story: Scout kills 3 players and have to reaload, the 4-th player kill him and inject his 3 friends. Scout loses tons of ISK despite the fact that he was aiming at head, and he was killing them with last shoot when they had 2-5% of HP left. The last guy in the squad saved they clones, so they items will not go to loot pools at the end of match.
4) Kill right before end of match. Everyone who is incapacited while match ends, save they fit like they were not killed, and of cures they fitting do not go to loot pool at the end.
This is Skirmish v1.0
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
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Posted - 2015.12.23 10:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
MrShooter01 wrote: Allow me ..... But when someone terminates your clone, THE RESPAWN TIMER DOESN'T COUNT DOWN UNTIL YOU SELECT A SPAWN. Don't take my word for it, go start a domination/skirmish map, intentionally fall to your death from the MCC. Observe the spawn times. Now overcook a grenade or sit on top of a RE. Observe the longer spawn times.
....
Terminating the clone of someone defending a point can decide whether you'll successfully hack it, or if you'll get shotgunned by the same guy. ....
When you terminate a clone with an explosive weapon or by shooting their corpse, you are potentially wasting enormous amounts of their time in the match... kind of like your Alliance's tactic in EVE. You were keeping people out of battle for longer by letting their pod live. But this isn't EVE, and you tried to apply that tactic without correctly adapting it to suit the game. Here, you're slowing down their respawn by terminating them. ....
Not that you should ALWAYS terminate every chance you get, not every tactic is one-size-fits-all. As you know, keeping your sights on someone you expect to call for a revive can get you a bonus kill on them and maybe the logi too. ....
This is a game mechanic that has been around as far as I know since the beginning, though I've only noticed it since the patch that significantly nerfed spawn times on uplinks. WHY it works this way? I couldn't tell you. I didn't design the damn game. But that's the way it is. Something you should have noticed, asked about, or been told about before now. Definitely before making a thread about "the IQ or age of dust players" implying everyone else acting on information you don't know about to be some low IQ children unworthy of playing the same game as you. .....
Which doesn't reflect very well on your own maturity btw .....
TL:DR All spawn timers count down while bleeding out allowing you to get back to battle faster if you choose not to be revived, they don't while you're terminated and you must wait the full 10 seconds every time, you should therefore terminate your enemy if the situation allows and you don't want to be shot in the back by them too soon
Thanks for the reply - all good points. I do understand the point of slowing down the respawn, but this is only if the player concerned was not going to call for help. If they were, which is apparently a preferred option to "save a clone for your team", then you are actually speeding up their respawn.
As for my comments about IQ and age, this tactic and the obsessive use of it by players who seem to do it by habit or just pure spite, seems wildly over the top to me, especially in pubs where I see it all the time. Yes, I used the word "obsessive" - that's what it seems to be to me.
Thanks for your reply, I've actually played quite a few matches today since reading it and I can verify everything you say. For myself, who usually chooses to respawn just as soon as the kill screen comes up, this certainly does slow me down. It also uses up a clone, which is what I thought was the point of it. For those who prefer to try to revive, this tactic actually gets them back into the match quicker.
Clearly this is something that the player concerned must decide for him or her self. Myself, I will probably never again terminate a clone deliberately. There's such a thing as respect, even on the battlefield. Scrubs don't have it. But there are clearly people, some of whom have replied here, that do. |
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:55:00 -
[61] - Quote
jett it wrote:I am the dude that will kill a heavy run away wait for that heavies logi to pick them up run back and then kill the heavy again and the logi cloning them both 3 for the price of 2 clones. Now thats using your IQ... As for my age i am 115 years old and thats going by dust lifetime SP. lel. ^This! Yes, that is using your IQ. This is something I've done myself. I think it's a helluva lot better tactic all round.
How do you translate Dust lifetime SP into Dust age by the way? ;) |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:benandjerrys wrote:Provi bloc!?! https://youtu.be/m6lJGddizTQWell from a fellow bloccer This technique is used by those clone count sensitive. Every clone matters. Your position is about to get overrun you don't want that -1 become a +1. That loss in isk efficiency is also negated over one needle spike. Killing a clone is also one less data point to the other side they see the needle indication not you, that body is broadcasted regardless of comms that enables the enemy to know that you are within 50 meters regardless on how dampened you are. Tl;Dr Term your clones. I agree with your EvE logic of holding the pod, but this ain't eggo wars m8 I can see the differences, but I can also see the similarities and also the opportunities that are available exclusively in this game, which you are denying by terminating the clone. All you do by doing so is lock in a set response, in the belief that it will be preferable than the alternative. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
Apoleon II wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Dead Cavino wrote:I can think of a few strategic reasons to clone redberries out. Just a few of the top of my head. 1. Games that come down do clone count. ie. both teams have 10 clones left, cloning the enemy could mean victory over defeat. 2. If the downed enemy is in a squad, then their passive scans stay up until they bleed out.
1. Yes, when you're down to 10 clones each side, finishing off a clone makes sense. When you do it during a match with ample clones on both sides, there's no point. MY point is that the majority of players seem to finish off downed clones not because of any strategic reason, but just because it's expected to do so. I maintain that if anyone thought about this, and resisted the urge to violence of finishing off a downed clone just to "complete the kill", you would realise it's best to just leave them lying there. I maintain that anyone with a strategic view of this would generally NOT finish off a clone unless and until the end of a match if the other side was down to critical numbers. Maybe,but you MUST do a teabag lol
If I knew what that meant I might be able to respond. :) |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:02:00 -
[64] - Quote
sir RAVEN WING wrote:I find, at the current, that it is largely useless to terminate a lone wolf clone in Pubs. However, I still do it a lot of the time, especially in PC or FW, because needles are more common then. Why exactly do I 'clone' them? Well, in FW and PC, they are likely going to be in a squad, which means they will likely have a logi and more guns. They call for help and that could mean more guns aiming at you. They get sent back faster, and lose a clone. - This helps work to cloning their them. They die and die. In some instances, the players will come back for revenge. It is possible to use this to your advantage and kill them again. It's irritating - Throws them off their game just a bit, especially if you killed them with a weapon like a locus, or NKs. I seriously have felt as if I was one of the few who cloned downed players. Thanks. Yes, it makes more sense in FW and PC. I suppose if people are used to doing it, then they are going to do it habitually.
And no, there are not just a "few" who "clone" downed players. This practice is rife, like school kiddies who have developed a habit they all do, and none of them actually knows why other than if "feels" good and it's "what we do".... |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:05:00 -
[65] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Brings down clone count fast, and you can respawn while incapacitated. Are we done here, because this post is sounds like its to appeal to people that have low IQ or are children. My point was that it's a practice that feels like it's being employed by people that have low IQ or are school kids, yes. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You gain additional payout from finishing off a clone. This is a fact. If it's a fact, then you must have proof? |
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
1. Payout is determined by how much you deatroy. The more stuff i terminate, the more money I make.
2. Terminating suits is a psychological trick: people get angry when omeone takes the time to terminate their clone. They start getting sloppy. And maybe, if they lose enough, they'll just give up. Works especially well on anyone running proto.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Thanks to everyone who has replied. Some very good points, some of which were in fact new to me. I've verified what I can, and feel that this tactic is useful, but not very much so for pubs, more for FW and PC. But overused I think it can be a negative. Perhaps as one respondent has said the positives outweigh the negatives.
I personally detest the practice and will probably not use it very much if at all. Yes, I do see both the parallels and the differences between Dust and EvE in this regard. I detest the practice in EvE too and that's probably coloured my thinking somewhat. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
213
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 11:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:1. Payout is determined by how much you deatroy. The more stuff i terminate, the more money I make.
If this is true, I doubt that the extra payout would be worth the dirty feeling I think I would have for doing it. How do we know that you earn more by doing it, by the way? Where are the rules written that say it?
Quote: 2. Terminating suits is a psychological trick: people get angry when omeone takes the time to terminate their clone. They start getting sloppy. And maybe, if they lose enough, they'll just give up. Works especially well on anyone running proto.
lol It doesn't work on me!! If I'm actually still lying there when they do it, I just think they're mental midgets. It has no psychological effect on me other than to convince me that the other team are idiots.
Yes, I know that appears to indicate I don't know how this game works. Anyone thinking that after this thread would be seriously mistaken.
But yes, I can see it would work extremely well on people running proto! :) |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 23:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I terminate clones as a matter of habit. I don't like people recovering behind me. Yes, exactly. It's a habit. And I believe it's pointless, because they will "recover" anyway, when they respawn. You've won your points, if you just leave them there hoping to be revived, you've kept them out of the battle that little big longer. It's a habit born of a tactical choice.
If i kill a clone and then terminate, i only have to worry about the guy who would have revived him.
If i let him be revived, it's now 2-1 in their favor.
Plus if i see the direction the guy comes from looking to retaliate, i can get a rough idea where he spawned from and take steps to neutralize that spawn point.
So yes, i habitually terminate clones. Because of a tactical determination I came to over two years ago.
Because why not?
|
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
584
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 23:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:When you terminate someones clone, the respawn timers don't auto-countdown. As long as their clone is alive, the spawns keep counting down to 3 seconds (if they start at a base of 10 seconds). As said above it also ensures 1 clone is lost immediately from the clone count, prevents them from being revives, but it also ensures that any ISK value of that suit is lost.
1. Officer Suits/Weapon wielding suits - Terminating clones ensures that equipment is lost, and cannot be recovered via logi needle. Officer Equipped suits are always terminated regardless of likelihood of needles nearby.
2. Sentinels (and heavies in general) - Fewer things in this game are as frightening to a support troop as an amarr sentinel standing back up at 100% HP.
3. PRO Logistics Suits - Ensure the greatest ISK damage done to the enemy team. Almost always carry high tier uplinks as well
4. Assaults/Scouts - Very dangerous if picked back up
5. All other suits
Also, I will terminate clones as a follow up to breaching into a meat-grinder (with a flux grenade) to ensure there is no chance of any of the above getting resurrected by logis that spawn in or haven't been eliminated yet.
I have found that more often than not when I'm running a punching commando, suits are terminated by my fist anyway, so there is rarely any need to stop.
When Sniping, Terminating Sentinels and Caldari Assault Suits takes priority over killing living assault suits (but is below killing logis and other snipers), to give my advancing teammates optimal chances and maximize my rifle's effectiveness. Points taken. Some of this seems somewhat vindictive and not necessarily of much benefit in the current battle, but it sounds reasonable. I personally still think this is very over-the-top, particularly for pubs, unless you're a stomper. For FW and PC, yes, this makes sense.
I mainly run FW, I hate games with splash damage that doesn't damage friendlies.... Also, in Eve, I live in W-Space...most of the spite and vindictiveness from those tactics comes from the overarching culture in the Anoikis cluster...yet more sacrifices for Bob. Also...I prefer that threats that I neutralize stay that way
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
814
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 01:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know.
[85.9m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
216
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 06:26:00 -
[73] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know. No, I don't think EVERYONE who does it is unintelligent and/or children. I know there are some who do it because they have a reason to, have determined that's the best thing to do for whatever reason. I'm talking about the seeming majority that do it because they think it's "the thing to do". And yes, those I do believe are probably 12-14 year olds. It's mindless in their case. They're just doing it to vent some sort of ritualistic animalistic urge. Yes, I do find that disrespectful, but then what can I expect from kids? |
VAHZZ
Community Cream Pie
10
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 07:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
Does IQ stand for Irresistible Cookies?
Long Live The King
|
Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
63
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 07:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. Term or Terminating a player as its often called has a plus and a minus side to it and an ego side to it. Let's take a look at each.
Pros-The player can't be revived is the biggest pro, it's the most obvious and probably the best. Secondly another enemy can't gain points from his revive, resulting in a smaller chance of you being hit by a warbarge strike. Third, the player now needs a new suit, isk lost equals more isk made at the end of the battle (especially in PC but seeing as this is not common practice in PC it's the least compelling of the pros)
Cons- IT TAKES AMMO! Wasted ammo. Ammo you spent shooting a dead body or "kicking a dead horse". It also denies you the EXTRA TWO KILLS you can gain by leaving him down and letting a redberry try to revive him, as soon as he starts to stand you can now kill the person who revived him and kill him again before either of them are able to do anything. That's a total of 3 kills from one kill that are completely wasted by terming your enemy. Another con is the enemy comes back faster and is more butthurt and almost every time comes back with better gear or a cheaper tactic.
Ego- Let's be honest guys, it takes too damn long to teabag someone in dust, hitting triangle twice is a pain and the animation takes forever. The better option in dust is to shoot their dead body disgracefully while theyre forced to watch. It's a teabag times a thousand. But when combined with a teabag it's even more disgraceful, a teabag in dust means that you took the time to walk over, take the risk of being killed and squat up and down over someone repeatedly but if you do this while spinning in circles and pumping their body full of bullets it shows even more distaste for your enemy.
If you ever see me terming a body it's simply because teabagging you is either too dangerous or I'm just too lazy to go do it. I only term for the humiliation factor and if you see me squatting over your corpse and spraying you full of bullets then you immediately know I either A) Hate the hell out of you or B)Loved the fight we just had and want you to come back next time trying even harder. For instance, I term Arirana every time I kill him, I absolutely love fighting him 1v1 and would gladly waste suits time and time again fighting him, because he is one of the best challenges around, I term him to let him know "Bring it on" and every single time he comes back with something even crazier and slays the **** out of me and terms me. And it's a freaking blast, but I never teabag him, out of respect. But every time I kill Bigdaddt69 (which is every time) I teabag and term and spit on his grave, because I hate him.
"Militia Internet, Proto Lag" -Zandor Suzuki
"To be fair"- viper xsniper
"Americ*nt"- TheD1CK
|
Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
63
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 07:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know. No, I don't think EVERYONE who does it is unintelligent and/or children. I know there are some who do it because they have a reason to, have determined that's the best thing to do for whatever reason. I'm talking about the seeming majority that do it because they think it's "the thing to do". And yes, those I do believe are probably 12-14 year olds. It's mindless in their case. They're just doing it to vent some sort of ritualistic animalistic urge. Yes, I do find that disrespectful, but then what can I expect from kids? I'm still to see any actual proof that there's any point score or ISK advantage in doing it. Granted that under certain circumstances, it's possible that it might give a time advantage to you or a time penalty to the downed player, but that's certainly not always the case, and works on the assumption that all players will always choose to respawn rather than wait for revival, which we simply know is not true. I remain firmly convinced, actually by some of the arguments on this thread, that people are simply justifying doing what they want to do in the first place. Keep in mind some players live by an "If it's red I shoots mentality" plenty of people don't think to shoot the logi instead of the heavy or the caldari when they're using a laser, some people literally just see red and shoot.
"Militia Internet, Proto Lag" -Zandor Suzuki
"To be fair"- viper xsniper
"Americ*nt"- TheD1CK
|
Yaerus Steel
Wolf Pack Special Forces Shadow of Dust
83
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 07:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
The point of killing them even when you have a high clone count on each side, is so this doesn't happen, you were stupid enough to not kill to them and now it is down to 10 versus 10 clones...
You would have just won instead. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
216
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 07:56:00 -
[78] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know. No, I don't think EVERYONE who does it is unintelligent and/or children. I know there are some who do it because they have a reason to, have determined that's the best thing to do for whatever reason. I'm talking about the seeming majority that do it because they think it's "the thing to do". And yes, those I do believe are probably 12-14 year olds. It's mindless in their case. They're just doing it to vent some sort of ritualistic animalistic urge. Yes, I do find that disrespectful, but then what can I expect from kids? I'm still to see any actual proof that there's any point score or ISK advantage in doing it. Granted that under certain circumstances, it's possible that it might give a time advantage to you or a time penalty to the downed player, but that's certainly not always the case, and works on the assumption that all players will always choose to respawn rather than wait for revival, which we simply know is not true. I remain firmly convinced, actually by some of the arguments on this thread, that people are simply justifying doing what they want to do in the first place. Keep in mind some players live by an "If it's red I shoots mentality" plenty of people don't think to shoot the logi instead of the heavy or the caldari when they're using a laser, some people literally just see red and shoot. I actually kill the logi repping another player rather than the repped player. Then I take on the repped player. In the case of a logi reviving a downed player, I kill the logi first then the newly revived downed player.
|
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
216
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 07:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
Yaerus Steel wrote:The point of killing them even when you have a high clone count on each side, is so this doesn't happen, you were stupid enough to not kill to them and now it is down to 10 versus 10 clones...
You would have just won instead. So you're saying the aim is attrition? The idea is to deplete the other side's clones faster than either MCC can be destroyed? If that's the aim, it's not working - most of the matches I've played in, at every level, one of the MCCs is destroyed - probably about 90% of the time. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
218
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 10:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Of course it should be noted that CCP introduced the concept of termination of clones so presumably they wanted players to figure out how to exploit it. Doesn't mean it's desirable practice, but what CCP wants CCP usually gets. :) |
|
ANON Cerberus
TerranProtossZerg
980
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 11:57:00 -
[81] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner.
Now try running solo, killing off a few dudes with sweet fits or officer weapons only to forget to destroy their clone and a logi comes out of nowhere and revives all of them. It puts your hard work to waste in seconds.
No if I can I will always destroy the clone because [1] I want them to lose that equipment and resource [2] I don't want them being revived in that exact spot with the knowledge they have attained of my position.
In EVE the systems of combat and podding are totally different. For one that "pod" most likely has implants so why would you not want to destroy those implants? (Yes anyone with a brain will only run what they can afford to lose, or they are happy to risk big time implants). Secondly the time between respawning in dust and reshipping in EVE can be monstrously different.
Then you have to factor in travel times in EVE online and you do not have to do this for DUST. |
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
901
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:Brings down clone count fast, and you can respawn while incapacitated. Are we done here, because this post is sounds like its to appeal to people that have low IQ or are children. My point was that it's a practice that feels like it's being employed by people that have low IQ or are school kids, yes. What? What makes it feel that way?
Just a Caldari living the clean life. ( -í° -£-û -í°) No.
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
815
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 16:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know. No, I don't think EVERYONE who does it is unintelligent and/or children. I know there are some who do it because they have a reason to, have determined that's the best thing to do for whatever reason. I'm talking about the seeming majority that do it because they think it's "the thing to do". And yes, those I do believe are probably 12-14 year olds. It's mindless in their case. They're just doing it to vent some sort of ritualistic animalistic urge. Yes, I do find that disrespectful, but then what can I expect from kids? I'm still to see any actual proof that there's any point score or ISK advantage in doing it. Granted that under certain circumstances, it's possible that it might give a time advantage to you or a time penalty to the downed player, but that's certainly not always the case, and works on the assumption that all players will always choose to respawn rather than wait for revival, which we simply know is not true. I remain firmly convinced, actually by some of the arguments on this thread, that people are simply justifying doing what they want to do in the first place.
It is indeed "the thing to do". It was stated several times that it increases their respawn time regardless of the situation or gamemode. That's advantageous to winning. Simple as that.
There are many gamers including myself who have a "completionist" playstyle. It's reflected by getting all the collectibles, searching every corner, and in the case of Dust, it's "completing" every kill I make. (Unless I'm busy fighting lots of reds and/or with logiwork) While I can't speak for others, I'm trying to convey that it's not always a childish "animalistic urge", it's a satisfying habit that in addition has tactical usefulness. If you take it that way, that's not their fault and it's simply not logical to profile people you don't know because of their actions in a video game.
I would like to go into a psychology/philosophy lesson on this, but I suppose I can't change your mind.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
0uter.Heaven
9
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Posted - 2015.12.24 18:52:00 -
[84] - Quote
to busy killing people to worry about those who are already dead.
I stop playing video games, I don't "retire"
Buying dead and inactive corporations
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Medical Crash
Systematic Engineers Unlimited
410
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Posted - 2015.12.24 18:53:00 -
[85] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. yeetz, but wat if u got gud gooby? wat den??????
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
218
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Posted - 2015.12.24 19:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:Brings down clone count fast, and you can respawn while incapacitated. Are we done here, because this post is sounds like its to appeal to people that have low IQ or are children. My point was that it's a practice that feels like it's being employed by people that have low IQ or are school kids, yes. What? What makes it feel that way? Because it feels vindictive somehow. Bearing in mind I'm a relatively new player, who has seen this first hand (of course) but with an outsider's view, it seems like people are just doing it because they can. There are a few very good arguments why this is a good thing to do, but I'm sure the majority are not doing it because of those arguments, they're just doing it because they can.
There is also the matter of the fact that the reasons for terminating a clone are much more suited to more serious battles in FW and PC than in pubs and the discussion of officer fits indicates to me that the practice is misplaced in pubs. What are officer fits doing in pubs in the first place?
Yes, I understand the need for terminating clones in FW and PC. Not in pubs, unless you're a stomper. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
218
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Posted - 2015.12.24 19:27:00 -
[87] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote: Now try running solo, killing off a few dudes with sweet fits or officer weapons only to forget to destroy their clone and a logi comes out of nowhere and revives all of them. It puts your hard work to waste in seconds.
No if I can I will always destroy the clone because [1] I want them to lose that equipment and resource [2] I don't want them being revived in that exact spot with the knowledge they have attained of my position.
In EVE the systems of combat and podding are totally different. For one that "pod" most likely has implants so why would you not want to destroy those implants? (Yes anyone with a brain will only run what they can afford to lose, or they are happy to risk big time implants). Secondly the time between respawning in dust and reshipping in EVE can be monstrously different.
Then you have to factor in travel times in EVE online and you do not have to do this for DUST.
Thanks for the good points.
Now for a few of my own that instantly come to mind.
Yes, in FW and PC, terminating a clone would be strategic, and reasonable. In pubs, it feels vindictive, mindless and stupid. Where is the "strategy" in it? Why are there officer fits in pubs? Yes, I understand the concept of doing it because you want to be in the habit of doing it, so you don't forget to do it when you're in FW or PC, but then it's habitual, which is exactly my point. At least for people for whom it is habitual, because of strategic reasons, there is some point.
Perhaps it's good to terminate clones in officer fits in pubs. :)
Yes, in EvE the clones can have implants. Some of those implants can be hellishly expensive. Noone with any sense flies a modded clone in battle. So generally, podding is just a vindictive kill, and one which will bite you because they instantly awaken in their home station, hop in a ship and are back in the battle in as much time as it takes to get there. That can be a few minutes, but not the thirty minutes it has taken for some people to realise they are going to have to self-destruct because noone is going to pod them.
So yes, there is a vast difference in the time involved, but so is there a vast difference in the duration of battles. In EvE a battle can be days. In Dust, it's 20-30 minutes. So delaying the return of a clone by a few seconds actually does count. My stance is that terming a clone only works to delay them if they weren't going to just respawn anyway. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
219
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Posted - 2015.12.24 19:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know. No, I don't think EVERYONE who does it is unintelligent and/or children. I know there are some who do it because they have a reason to, have determined that's the best thing to do for whatever reason. I'm talking about the seeming majority that do it because they think it's "the thing to do". And yes, those I do believe are probably 12-14 year olds. It's mindless in their case. They're just doing it to vent some sort of ritualistic animalistic urge. Yes, I do find that disrespectful, but then what can I expect from kids? I'm still to see any actual proof that there's any point score or ISK advantage in doing it. Granted that under certain circumstances, it's possible that it might give a time advantage to you or a time penalty to the downed player, but that's certainly not always the case, and works on the assumption that all players will always choose to respawn rather than wait for revival, which we simply know is not true. I remain firmly convinced, actually by some of the arguments on this thread, that people are simply justifying doing what they want to do in the first place. It is indeed "the thing to do". It was stated several times that it increases their respawn time regardless of the situation or gamemode. That's advantageous to winning. Simple as that. There are many gamers including myself who have a "completionist" playstyle. It's reflected by getting all the collectibles, searching every corner, and in the case of Dust, it's "completing" every kill I make. (Unless I'm busy fighting lots of reds and/or with logiwork) While I can't speak for others, I'm trying to convey that it's not always a childish "animalistic urge", it's a satisfying habit that in addition has tactical usefulness. If you take it that way, that's not their fault and it's simply not logical to profile people you don't know because of their actions in a video game. I would like to go into a psychology/philosophy lesson on this, but I suppose I can't change your mind. Oh, please do! I would love to hear a logical discussion on why this game doesn't feel like it's full of adolescent boys just getting their kicks wasting time and ammo killing every clone again after they've just killed them. Yes, I know they can be revived, but if they're not, they'll just respawn anyway. Or maybe if you terminate their clone they'll decide they've had enough and leave the battle? Who knows?
I still disagree with the idea that it delays their return to battle under any circumstances. If they're waiting for a revival, they will lie there until the expiry timer runs out and then respawn in 3 seconds. But that can be 20 seconds after they've been incapacitated. The arguments about why it delays their return to battle seem to all conveniently avoid this possibility. I guess there is an implicit assumption noone will wait for a revival, and yet many of the arguments are about the fact that if you don't terminate the clone they can be revived.....
Yes I understand the "completionist" playstyle. I myself have it. I can't remember a single game I've played where I didn't hunt out every single potential bonus in every little nook or cranny. Even playing through a level again, I will habitually go to all those same places, collect all the collectibles, play all the conversations through, just skipping through to their end to save time. And yes, I do see how this could lead to terminating clones, because there is the concept that they're "not really dead" until you do. For me they are. If someone revives them, so be it. They would have respawned anyway.
I guess as far as it being a satisfying habit is concerned, you have to have a particular mindset to see it that way. For me it's abhorrent. You've just killed them, they're lying there bleeding out, and you finish them off so there's no chance of them being revived. The fact that it's "satisfying" is what's disturbing about it. |
Immortal John Ripper
29
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Posted - 2015.12.24 19:44:00 -
[89] - Quote
LOL this thread.
People in this game make the dumbest mistakes and you are complaining about
Quote:Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid?
From my experience, everybody has a different playstyle. Some may be better at others in certain situations so I try not to judge even if in the back of my mind I feel like they suck and are stupid. I try to push out my negative thoughts and humble myself. In all honesty, all the vets back then would always claim that pubs didn't matter. play how you want in pubs, nobody cares. I think the main reason is that you cannot control what your team does. It's a factor out of your control that can push games either way and the only thing you can do is your personal best. Stop complaining about other peoples faults and improve your own because that is the only thing you can do that will have any meaningful effect.
However all that would change in pc and everyone would get super competitive and the TEARS LOL.
Space and Time.
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VAHZZ
Corrosive Synergy RUST415
10
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Posted - 2015.12.24 19:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Immortal John Ripper wrote:LOL this thread. People in this game make the dumbest mistakes and you are complaining about Quote:Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? From my experience, everybody has a different playstyle. Some may be better at others in certain situations so I try not to judge even if in the back of my mind I feel like they suck and are stupid. I try to push out my negative thoughts and humble myself. In all honesty, all the vets back then would always claim that pubs didn't matter. play how you want in pubs, nobody cares. I think the main reason is that you cannot control what your team does. It's a factor out of your control that can push games either way and the only thing you can do is your personal best. Stop complaining about other peoples faults and improve your own because that is the only thing you can do that will have any meaningful effect. However all that would change in pc and everyone would get super competitive and the TEARS LOL. Proof that you are me, and I am you.
Long Live The King
Not everybody celebrates holidays
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
817
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Posted - 2015.12.24 21:48:00 -
[91] - Quote
Quote:Oh, please do! I would love to hear a logical discussion on why this game doesn't feel like it's full of adolescent boys just getting their kicks wasting time and ammo killing every clone again after they've just killed them. Yes, I know they can be revived, but if they're not, they'll just respawn anyway. Or maybe if you terminate their clone they'll decide they've had enough and leave the battle? Who knows?
I think you might be reading into it too much. It's okay to take a game seriously, as emotional investment can lead to improved performance and/or enjoyment. It's not okay to take a game seriously for the purpose of legitimately despising people you've never met or spoken to because of their behavior in a video game. I've learned over time not to take it so seriously, and I was gradually less bothered by losses and/or cheap tactics. I get where you come from, though. Online games bring out the worst in people, regardless of age or IQ. Especially games where your enjoyment is often at the cost of others, though that's simply the nature of versus-competition. There's a lot of psychology that goes into competitions with a complex meta and differing skillsets.
Quote:I still disagree with the idea that it delays their return to battle under any circumstances. If they're waiting for a revival, they will lie there until the expiry timer runs out and then respawn in 3 seconds. But that can be 20 seconds after they've been incapacitated. The arguments about why it delays their return to battle seem to all conveniently avoid this possibility. I guess there is an implicit assumption noone will wait for a revival, and yet many of the arguments are about the fact that if you don't terminate the clone they can be revived.....
I'd have to get my hands on some statistics for definitive proof. However the vast majority of the forum-dwelling community and in my extensive experience as a logi confirm that far more than two thirds of players do not wait for a revival and immediately look for their next spawn point. For those who don't wait, terminating delays their process by preventing the respawn timer from reducing itself prior to selection. More often than not, it is strategically useful to terminate your defeated enemies regardless of what people "should do".
Quote:If someone revives them, so be it. They would have respawned anyway.
If they're revived, they're back in the battle much much faster. In addition, they did not lose their gear, which means that they did not raise your payout.
Quote:I guess as far as it being a satisfying habit is concerned, you have to have a particular mindset to see it that way. For me it's abhorrent. You've just killed them, they're lying there bleeding out, and you finish them off so there's no chance of them being revived. The fact that it's "satisfying" is what's disturbing about it.
That comes down to a matter of personal opinion and interpretation. I for one don't really consciously think about the fact that I'm virtually murdering people. I play shooters because I enjoy the strategy and math involved; that's all I really think about. My purpose for entering this thread is that I disagreed with your mindset of making false assumptions about someone's character based on their behavior in a strategic video game. If you feel disrespected when being terminated, that's on you. Not trying to be rude, but that's how it is. You don't know their intention behind it or what kind of person they are in real life. You've only made assumptions and stated them as generalized facts.
Lastly; I also dislike the amount of effort and officer gear in pubs. But you never know, they could just be playing the game casually as they see fit even though it looks like they're pouring their life into one insignificant match. I prefer not to judge people's character for the way they play. A good friend of mine likes to put uplinks on high points. I despise that broken mechanic, but he's a seriously cool dude. It's not that I'm "forgiving" his actions because he's cool, but that I know not to falsely associate them. Because a cheap tactic / aggressive playstyle does not automatically equate to a disrespectful, childish, or unintelligent person. Make sense?
I hope this properly explains my side of things.
[85.9m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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DeadlyAztec11
9
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Posted - 2015.12.24 23:43:00 -
[92] - Quote
You see, if there is not a spawn point in the immediate vicinity during an objective battle then by completely eliminating the oponent you force them to have to take a long trek back to the action. This takes them out of the battle longer than simply incapacitating them for short time.
Also, if the player had particularly expensive gear than by killing them permanently you add to the prize pool at the end of the match.
Also, people tend to only wait for revive if a logi is near. If they aren't then most people simply respawn.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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DeadlyAztec11
9
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Posted - 2015.12.24 23:47:00 -
[93] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:Quote:Oh, please do! I would love to hear a logical discussion on why this game doesn't feel like it's full of adolescent boys just getting their kicks wasting time and ammo killing every clone again after they've just killed them. Yes, I know they can be revived, but if they're not, they'll just respawn anyway. Or maybe if you terminate their clone they'll decide they've had enough and leave the battle? Who knows? I think you might be reading into it too much. It's okay to take a game seriously, as emotional investment can lead to improved performance and/or enjoyment. It's not okay to take a game seriously for the purpose of legitimately despising people you've never met or spoken to because of their behavior in a video game. I've learned over time not to take it so seriously, and I was gradually less bothered by losses and/or cheap tactics. I get where you come from, though. Online games bring out the worst in people, regardless of age or IQ. Especially games where your enjoyment is often at the cost of others, though that's simply the nature of versus-competition. There's a lot of psychology that goes into competitions with a complex meta and differing skillsets. Quote:I still disagree with the idea that it delays their return to battle under any circumstances. If they're waiting for a revival, they will lie there until the expiry timer runs out and then respawn in 3 seconds. But that can be 20 seconds after they've been incapacitated. The arguments about why it delays their return to battle seem to all conveniently avoid this possibility. I guess there is an implicit assumption noone will wait for a revival, and yet many of the arguments are about the fact that if you don't terminate the clone they can be revived..... I'd have to get my hands on some statistics for definitive proof. However the vast majority of the forum-dwelling community and in my extensive experience as a logi confirm that far more than two thirds of players do not wait for a revival and immediately look for their next spawn point. For those who don't wait, terminating delays their process by preventing the respawn timer from reducing itself prior to selection. More often than not, it is strategically useful to terminate your defeated enemies regardless of what people "should do". Quote:If someone revives them, so be it. They would have respawned anyway. If they're revived, they're back in the battle much much faster. In addition, they did not lose their gear, which means that they did not raise your payout. Quote:I guess as far as it being a satisfying habit is concerned, you have to have a particular mindset to see it that way. For me it's abhorrent. You've just killed them, they're lying there bleeding out, and you finish them off so there's no chance of them being revived. The fact that it's "satisfying" is what's disturbing about it. That comes down to a matter of personal opinion and interpretation. I for one don't really consciously think about the fact that I'm virtually murdering people. I play shooters because I enjoy the strategy and math involved; that's all I really think about. My purpose for entering this thread is that I disagreed with your mindset of making false assumptions about someone's character based on their behavior in a strategic video game. If you feel disrespected when being terminated, that's on you. Not trying to be rude, but that's how it is. You don't know their intention behind it or what kind of person they are in real life. You've only made assumptions and stated them as generalized facts. Lastly; I also dislike the amount of effort and officer gear in pubs. But you never know, they could just be playing the game casually as they see fit even though it looks like they're pouring their life into one insignificant match. I prefer not to judge people's character for the way they play. A good friend of mine likes to put uplinks on high points. I despise that broken mechanic, but he's a seriously cool dude. It's not that I'm "forgiving" his actions because he's cool, but that I know not to falsely associate them. Because a cheap tactic / aggressive playstyle does not automatically equate to a disrespectful, childish, or unintelligent person. Make sense? I hope this properly explains my side of things. I agree with this post in its entirety.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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DeadlyAztec11
9
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Posted - 2015.12.25 00:02:00 -
[94] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote: Now try running solo, killing off a few dudes with sweet fits or officer weapons only to forget to destroy their clone and a logi comes out of nowhere and revives all of them. It puts your hard work to waste in seconds.
No if I can I will always destroy the clone because [1] I want them to lose that equipment and resource [2] I don't want them being revived in that exact spot with the knowledge they have attained of my position.
In EVE the systems of combat and podding are totally different. For one that "pod" most likely has implants so why would you not want to destroy those implants? (Yes anyone with a brain will only run what they can afford to lose, or they are happy to risk big time implants). Secondly the time between respawning in dust and reshipping in EVE can be monstrously different.
Then you have to factor in travel times in EVE online and you do not have to do this for DUST.
Thanks for the good points. Now for a few of my own that instantly come to mind. Yes, in FW and PC, terminating a clone would be strategic, and reasonable. In pubs, it feels vindictive, mindless and stupid. Where is the "strategy" in it? Why are there officer fits in pubs? Yes, I understand the concept of doing it because you want to be in the habit of doing it, so you don't forget to do it when you're in FW or PC, but then it's habitual, which is exactly my point. At least for people for whom it is habitual, because of strategic reasons, there is some point. Perhaps it's good to terminate clones in officer fits in pubs. :) Yes, in EvE the clones can have implants. Some of those implants can be hellishly expensive. Noone with any sense flies a modded clone in battle. So generally, podding is just a vindictive kill, and one which will bite you because they instantly awaken in their home station, hop in a ship and are back in the battle in as much time as it takes to get there. That can be a few minutes, but not the thirty minutes it has taken for some people to realise they are going to have to self-destruct because noone is going to pod them. So yes, there is a vast difference in the time involved, but so is there a vast difference in the duration of battles. In EvE a battle can be days. In Dust, it's 20-30 minutes. So delaying the return of a clone by a few seconds actually does count. My stance is that terming a clone only works to delay them if they weren't going to just respawn anyway. Here's the thing though, there is officer and Prototype gear being used in public matches.
The best way to keep people from using them during the later half of the match is to terminate there clones so they can't keep their gear. This has the added benefit of adding to the collective payout. Also, note that the reason proto and officer squads tend to swarm enemies instead of fighting from a distance is to be able to quickly recover fallen comrades. This keeps them from having to respawn or lose gear. If you terminate their clones you can break their advance. This is a constant tactic I used in public matches to break the enemy's offensive and to level the gear playing field in my favor.
It works.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
219
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Posted - 2015.12.25 11:55:00 -
[95] - Quote
Interesting. I started this thread on the basis that I saw terminating clones as being simply stupid and pointless. The replies to it have made me feel it's more despicable than just stupid, in pubs, a necessary evil in FW and PC.
Ah well. I did try it again to see what all the fuss was about. I'm not going to be one of those who habitually terminates clones at least in pubs. I just can't see the point, despite all the arguments. I think the players who do it in pubs are just being ridiculously over the top.
I probably will however terminate clones in FW and PC on the basis of this thread. Some very good points and yes, I can see the point in depriving the opposing player of their gear if you get the chance. In FW and PC, this doesn't appear to be a stupid habitual tactic, but a real strategy.
Thanks to all who took the time to write considered responses. I learnt a lot. :) |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
2
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Posted - 2015.12.25 12:58:00 -
[96] - Quote
There are a number of reasons to terminate clones.
The main reason however, is that it will in fact increase the time it takes for them to repawn in the majority of cases.
A non-terminated clone respawns quicker depending on how close the uplink is. Terminated clones must take the full time to respawn.
It's not always worth it, but it often is. |
Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
819
|
Posted - 2015.12.25 13:53:00 -
[97] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Interesting. I started this thread on the basis that I saw terminating clones as being simply stupid and pointless. The replies to it have made me feel it's more despicable than just stupid, in pubs, a necessary evil in FW and PC.
Ah well. I did try it again to see what all the fuss was about. I'm not going to be one of those who habitually terminates clones at least in pubs. I just can't see the point, despite all the arguments. I think the players who do it in pubs are just being ridiculously over the top.
I probably will however terminate clones in FW and PC on the basis of this thread. Some very good points and yes, I can see the point in depriving the opposing player of their gear if you get the chance. In FW and PC, this doesn't appear to be a stupid habitual tactic, but a real strategy.
Thanks to all who took the time to write considered responses. I learnt a lot. :)
Thanks for keeping it civil. It's quite rare around here. o7
[85.9m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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