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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
813
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
"What? Someone's living their life differently than me? Better question their intelligence before anything else."
[85.8m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
814
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Posted - 2015.12.22 20:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Flawless explanation^
[85.8m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
814
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Posted - 2015.12.24 01:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know.
[85.9m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
815
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Posted - 2015.12.24 16:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:Conclusion: OP has a moral disagreement with termination and thinks that those who do it are unintelligent and/or children.
Seriously, it doesn't automatically pronounce someone stupid if they do something that you don't agree with. Besides, habits are human nature, not symptoms of unintelligence. In this thread, facts have been posted several times proving the usefulness of terminating. The only downside to it would be if it distracts you from a live enemy (unlikely), or in your case, you find it disrespectful.
My point: It's okay to have a stance on something, but it causes unease and derailments when you make negative generalizations about poeple you don't know. No, I don't think EVERYONE who does it is unintelligent and/or children. I know there are some who do it because they have a reason to, have determined that's the best thing to do for whatever reason. I'm talking about the seeming majority that do it because they think it's "the thing to do". And yes, those I do believe are probably 12-14 year olds. It's mindless in their case. They're just doing it to vent some sort of ritualistic animalistic urge. Yes, I do find that disrespectful, but then what can I expect from kids? I'm still to see any actual proof that there's any point score or ISK advantage in doing it. Granted that under certain circumstances, it's possible that it might give a time advantage to you or a time penalty to the downed player, but that's certainly not always the case, and works on the assumption that all players will always choose to respawn rather than wait for revival, which we simply know is not true. I remain firmly convinced, actually by some of the arguments on this thread, that people are simply justifying doing what they want to do in the first place.
It is indeed "the thing to do". It was stated several times that it increases their respawn time regardless of the situation or gamemode. That's advantageous to winning. Simple as that.
There are many gamers including myself who have a "completionist" playstyle. It's reflected by getting all the collectibles, searching every corner, and in the case of Dust, it's "completing" every kill I make. (Unless I'm busy fighting lots of reds and/or with logiwork) While I can't speak for others, I'm trying to convey that it's not always a childish "animalistic urge", it's a satisfying habit that in addition has tactical usefulness. If you take it that way, that's not their fault and it's simply not logical to profile people you don't know because of their actions in a video game.
I would like to go into a psychology/philosophy lesson on this, but I suppose I can't change your mind.
[85.9m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
817
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Posted - 2015.12.24 21:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Oh, please do! I would love to hear a logical discussion on why this game doesn't feel like it's full of adolescent boys just getting their kicks wasting time and ammo killing every clone again after they've just killed them. Yes, I know they can be revived, but if they're not, they'll just respawn anyway. Or maybe if you terminate their clone they'll decide they've had enough and leave the battle? Who knows?
I think you might be reading into it too much. It's okay to take a game seriously, as emotional investment can lead to improved performance and/or enjoyment. It's not okay to take a game seriously for the purpose of legitimately despising people you've never met or spoken to because of their behavior in a video game. I've learned over time not to take it so seriously, and I was gradually less bothered by losses and/or cheap tactics. I get where you come from, though. Online games bring out the worst in people, regardless of age or IQ. Especially games where your enjoyment is often at the cost of others, though that's simply the nature of versus-competition. There's a lot of psychology that goes into competitions with a complex meta and differing skillsets.
Quote:I still disagree with the idea that it delays their return to battle under any circumstances. If they're waiting for a revival, they will lie there until the expiry timer runs out and then respawn in 3 seconds. But that can be 20 seconds after they've been incapacitated. The arguments about why it delays their return to battle seem to all conveniently avoid this possibility. I guess there is an implicit assumption noone will wait for a revival, and yet many of the arguments are about the fact that if you don't terminate the clone they can be revived.....
I'd have to get my hands on some statistics for definitive proof. However the vast majority of the forum-dwelling community and in my extensive experience as a logi confirm that far more than two thirds of players do not wait for a revival and immediately look for their next spawn point. For those who don't wait, terminating delays their process by preventing the respawn timer from reducing itself prior to selection. More often than not, it is strategically useful to terminate your defeated enemies regardless of what people "should do".
Quote:If someone revives them, so be it. They would have respawned anyway.
If they're revived, they're back in the battle much much faster. In addition, they did not lose their gear, which means that they did not raise your payout.
Quote:I guess as far as it being a satisfying habit is concerned, you have to have a particular mindset to see it that way. For me it's abhorrent. You've just killed them, they're lying there bleeding out, and you finish them off so there's no chance of them being revived. The fact that it's "satisfying" is what's disturbing about it.
That comes down to a matter of personal opinion and interpretation. I for one don't really consciously think about the fact that I'm virtually murdering people. I play shooters because I enjoy the strategy and math involved; that's all I really think about. My purpose for entering this thread is that I disagreed with your mindset of making false assumptions about someone's character based on their behavior in a strategic video game. If you feel disrespected when being terminated, that's on you. Not trying to be rude, but that's how it is. You don't know their intention behind it or what kind of person they are in real life. You've only made assumptions and stated them as generalized facts.
Lastly; I also dislike the amount of effort and officer gear in pubs. But you never know, they could just be playing the game casually as they see fit even though it looks like they're pouring their life into one insignificant match. I prefer not to judge people's character for the way they play. A good friend of mine likes to put uplinks on high points. I despise that broken mechanic, but he's a seriously cool dude. It's not that I'm "forgiving" his actions because he's cool, but that I know not to falsely associate them. Because a cheap tactic / aggressive playstyle does not automatically equate to a disrespectful, childish, or unintelligent person. Make sense?
I hope this properly explains my side of things.
[85.9m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
819
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Posted - 2015.12.25 13:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Interesting. I started this thread on the basis that I saw terminating clones as being simply stupid and pointless. The replies to it have made me feel it's more despicable than just stupid, in pubs, a necessary evil in FW and PC.
Ah well. I did try it again to see what all the fuss was about. I'm not going to be one of those who habitually terminates clones at least in pubs. I just can't see the point, despite all the arguments. I think the players who do it in pubs are just being ridiculously over the top.
I probably will however terminate clones in FW and PC on the basis of this thread. Some very good points and yes, I can see the point in depriving the opposing player of their gear if you get the chance. In FW and PC, this doesn't appear to be a stupid habitual tactic, but a real strategy.
Thanks to all who took the time to write considered responses. I learnt a lot. :)
Thanks for keeping it civil. It's quite rare around here. o7
[85.9m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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