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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
209
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Posted - 2015.12.21 20:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Moved from another thread:
Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age...
Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid?
We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something.
In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone.
For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance.
Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does.
I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do.
All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. |
Radiant Pancake3
2
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was coming here expecting a Link to an IQ test but I came disappointed...
Port Confirmed.
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Operative 1174 Uuali
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
1
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Clone count and needles. Look it up.
I.Q. Or age? For me it's the alcohol.
CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
209
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Radiant Pancake3 wrote:I was coming here expecting a Link to an IQ test but I came disappointed... Sorry, no, just another one of my stream of consciousness ramblings... :)
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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
209
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Clone count and needles. Look it up.
I.Q. Or age? For me it's the alcohol. I still don't see the point. Yes, I know about clone count, and I know about needles. Finishing off a clone forces a reduction of 1 in the clone count. But most battles don't finish with one side depleted. Therefore finishing off a clone in most battles doesn't gain you or your side anything and puts the player back into the match. |
maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
2
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
I never call for help since I'm usually the logi. I.just terminate and respawn because I have to baby a team of blueberry slayers.
I never terminate fallen clones unless its an explosive kill(install dead) or its officer they are wearing.
Most of the time they just choose to respawn anyway.
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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REDBACK96USMC
NORTH K0REA
247
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out.
If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone.
Better just to finish them off. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
210
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:I never call for help since I'm usually the logi. I.just terminate and respawn because I have to baby a team of blueberry slayers.
I never terminate fallen clones unless its an explosive kill(install dead) or its officer they are wearing.
Most of the time they just choose to respawn anyway. I almost always just respawn. Unless there's a logi or medic nearby when I might give them some points (and save a fit) by calling for help, that is.
If I' nowhere near anyone else, I just respawn. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
210
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
REDBACK96USMC wrote:If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out.
If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone.
Better just to finish them off. Why are they stuck with a 10 second spawn? And even if it's 10 seconds how is it better to get them back into the match (on the other team) than to let them lay there waiting and then have to respawn anyway? What benefit is there to you or your team to finish them off? Do you get more points? Is there some bonus to you for getting the other team's player back into the match faster?
Please do elaborate. I still can't see how finishing off a clone benefits you or your team in any way. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
210
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:REDBACK96USMC wrote:If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out.
If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone.
Better just to finish them off. Why are they stuck with a 10 second spawn? And even if it's 10 seconds how is it better to get them back into the match (on the other team) than to let them lay there waiting and then have to respawn anyway? What benefit is there to you or your team to finish them off? Do you get more points? Is there some bonus to you for getting the other team's player back into the match faster? Please do elaborate. I still can't see how finishing off a clone benefits you or your team in any way. Also, the time taken to ritualisticly terminate a clone, sometimes quite some distance away, takes YOU out of the battle for some time as well. |
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Dead Cavino
Lunatic.High
164
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
I can think of a few strategic reasons to clone redberries out. Just a few of the top of my head. 1. Games that come down do clone count. ie. both teams have 10 clones left, cloning the enemy could mean victory over defeat. 2. If the downed enemy is in a squad, then their passive scans stay up until they bleed out.
I don't like two-legged things.
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THEAMAZING POTHEAD
House of Blue Leaves
1
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
all cases where finishing clones off is done- explosives obviously headshots for snipers or heavy vs heavy or people standing still in pc to help prevent spawning speed in general, a grenade allows you to chuck and forget in pubs when you kill someone near their cru or hidden uplink or obj to give time for removal of spawn point when you've seen redberries use needles when you're in a meat grinder and they have logis when you killed an officer or exp gear scrubby when ya just wanna unload your entire magazine into ****** deads body like youre the bear jew
Corps: P.R.O.---O.H.---Not Guilty/Pure Innocence---Nyain San---T.o.P.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
I terminate clones as a matter of habit. I don't like people recovering behind me.
Because why not?
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jett it
S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D General Tso's Alliance
579
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Upon taking my IQ test the results came back Inconclusive.
I think I might have broked something.
http://www.youtube.com/c/jettGaming
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bane sieg
Eternal Beings
535
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
You come in here talking about IQ but don't understand why it's smart to terminate clones. Ever lose a battle by just a few clones? Had you terminated some clones you might have won. If you really want to understand the importance of terminating clones go play some pc where every clone counts.
My entire dust career can be summed up in one sentence:
"Well, that didn't f#cking go as planned"
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Apoleon II
Rooky rooks
33
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
I do it because I like it, if you are talking about IQ or age....... Wtf. Maybe sir you should turn off your ps3 an search the cure of the cancer, I can't type more, I'm in battle, so, excuse me
Sorry for my bad english :$
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
813
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
"What? Someone's living their life differently than me? Better question their intelligence before anything else."
[85.8m SP]
-The Swagmaster Logi-
"Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
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benandjerrys
WarRavens Imperium Eden
1
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Provi bloc!?!
Free isk! (comment with in game name)
#portdust514
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Ahkhomi Cypher
Opus Arcana
1
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you terminate a clone you actually force them to take a longer spawn time. Therefore taking them out of battle longer.
Also
If the clone isnt terminated it will still provide passive scans. This is especially dangerous because the inner scan ring of suits can get strong enough to pick up scouts.
One unterminated Logi with precision can still light up key areas and essentially turn into alert beacons for scouts that run by them.
Tyrant King, Opus Arcana
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
8
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quote: Hence the average IQ of most redberries. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance.
That would totally be legit, except for the fact that most players - including myself - simply spam circle and don't bother waiting for a revive.
RIP Nova Knifers United
Aspiring Pilot
Boyko
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aussy sledge
ScReWeD uP InC Devil's Descendants
19
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote:jane stalin wrote:Joel II X wrote:And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. You know.... You can spawn while your clone is dying, once you spawn in though it terminates the clone..
Spreading freedom to all my fellow dust bunnies!
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DEV Stupid Head
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.12.21 23:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Absolutely not
Always double tap if possible
Destroys the clone and cannot be revived
aaaaaannd killing the clone does do something else......it is very subtle and I'm not going to tell you what it is...... |
Russel Mendoza
Klandatu
365
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Posted - 2015.12.21 23:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
When i play as a logi dropping uplink and hives then see a dying teammate i drop repair hives at them not injecting needles. Sometimes i mistakenly throw grenades aat them. It was a mistake i assurre you. Promise. Scouts honor and all that.
I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!!
Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu"
Vehicle request accepted.
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Daemonn Adima
Eternal Beings
703
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Posted - 2015.12.21 23:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
I kill em so they cant be picked up again. A lone sniper out in a field? No need. I only go out of my way to terminate a clone if it seems like they could be resurrected. |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
576
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Posted - 2015.12.22 00:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
When you terminate someones clone, the respawn timers don't auto-countdown. As long as their clone is alive, the spawns keep counting down to 3 seconds (if they start at a base of 10 seconds). As said above it also ensures 1 clone is lost immediately from the clone count, prevents them from being revives, but it also ensures that any ISK value of that suit is lost.
1. Officer Suits/Weapon wielding suits - Terminating clones ensures that equipment is lost, and cannot be recovered via logi needle. Officer Equipped suits are always terminated regardless of likelihood of needles nearby.
2. Sentinels (and heavies in general) - Fewer things in this game are as frightening to a support troop as an amarr sentinel standing back up at 100% HP.
3. PRO Logistics Suits - Ensure the greatest ISK damage done to the enemy team. Almost always carry high tier uplinks as well
4. Assaults/Scouts - Very dangerous if picked back up
5. All other suits
Also, I will terminate clones as a follow up to breaching into a meat-grinder (with a flux grenade) to ensure there is no chance of any of the above getting resurrected by logis that spawn in or haven't been eliminated yet.
I have found that more often than not when I'm running a punching commando, suits are terminated by my fist anyway, so there is rarely any need to stop.
When Sniping, Terminating Sentinels and Caldari Assault Suits takes priority over killing living assault suits (but is below killing logis and other snipers), to give my advancing teammates optimal chances and maximize my rifle's effectiveness.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
9
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Posted - 2015.12.22 01:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Clone count and needles. Look it up.
I.Q. Or age? For me it's the alcohol. I still don't see the point. Yes, I know about clone count, and I know about needles. Finishing off a clone forces a reduction of 1 in the clone count. But most battles don't finish with one side depleted. Therefore finishing off a clone in most battles doesn't gain you or your side anything and puts the player back into the match. I finish people off most of the time. Couple of reasons that have not been covered here Passive scans are active while clones are down but not terminated. This is shared with their squad. Spawn times vary based on termination. A terminated clone has 10 seconds to spawn in most cases, a non terminated clone has 5 seconds and counts down to 3. This is based off CRU and Starting spawn points, and variations in numbers occurs depending on links values and Amarr Logi bonus. Bottom line is t does change the spawn time. Personally if no one terminates me I will take the revive if I expect it to happen quickly and without incident. I will be watching from the spawn screen and if a better spawn is available I've got a plan on where to go and what course of action I take.
MOAR Ladders
SpadeGǪ Remember your Warbarge
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Jammeh McJam
Dead Man's Game Preatoriani
453
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Posted - 2015.12.22 01:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
The sooner they respawn, the sooner you can kill them again, which means:
- Better KD (for those that care) - Higher isk payout at the end of battle (terminating a lot of proto suits gets you a lot more isk, if they aren't proto, who cares it's more isk) - Eliminates any chance they had at getting picked back up.
There are more positives than negatives tbh.
Steam name - Jammeh McJam
PC master race
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GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
200
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Posted - 2015.12.22 15:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Since we don't water board a dirt nap is most appropriate. |
shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
5
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Posted - 2015.12.22 16:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
There is actually something to gain if you terminate the body quickly.
- no revive
- must wait the entire spawn time
Camouflage master =ƒÄà
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
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Posted - 2015.12.22 16:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
In Dust, you have 20 seconds to bleed out, I think. 10 of those seconds are seconds you could wait for a respawn instead. 7 of those could be removed by waiting 7 seconds. Meaning, if you wait 7 for seconds on bleed out, you could have 3 second spawns (if from a 10s spawner).
Killing the clone as soon as it drops makes the player have to wait the full respawn time, whether it's 10 in a normal spawner, or 15 in a freaking Militia Uplink.
Most people don't wait to bleed out calling for a nonexistent medic, so killing them just makes their time longer.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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