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Bax Zanith Sinfonia1898 245	Posted - 2015.12.22 18:01:00 - [31] - Quote The only time it's useful is when you are aiming to take a CRU, and you just killed the guy who's onto your antics. By double tapping him, you have 10 seconds to hack the CRU. If you don't double tap, he'll respawn and shoot you in the back before you even get half way. When a CRU is not involved, I see it as simply adding insult to injury. "You're either the cow or the butcher."
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2015.12.22 18:42:00 - [32] - Quote For me this is situational. If I kill a random on the fringes. He lays there dead. Heavy logi team. If I drop the heavy I go for logi. It's very rare to see 80% or better needles, so a revived heavy is an easy kill. Killing the logi I will finish with a flux, any old blue could have a dirty needle for him. Randoms, hardly ever. (Unless you were a pain...) Jumpers. Every time. Full mag. Officer/exp/pro. Of course. In the end that's the true spirit of our game. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.12.22 19:27:00 - [33] - Quote 1.If you allow them to lay there the timer for any uplinks and CRU are decreased allowing for a quicker respawn. 2.If they get revived they'll be next to other clones which in a sense increases the possible dps you'll be taking if seen. 3.They'll be in a group with a guy who can bring them back to 100% health (depends) 4.If they're damp'd up it'll be a lot harder to know where they're coming from. 5.You always want a battle in your favor, taking one guy out of the match for as long as possible gives you the upper hand. I only deal in absolutes
Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 3	Posted - 2015.12.22 19:59:00 - [34] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote: jane stalin wrote: Joel II X wrote: And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. I mean, every now and then I will finish off a clone. Especially when i see many logis on the field. And since I always run ion pistol, I don't worry about ammo. Charge shots do the trick. CEO of T-W-L YT- LD3514 Gallente Loyalist- ION PISTOL FOR LIFE! GFQ!
MrShooter01 Ustio Mercenary Squadron 1	Posted - 2015.12.22 20:42:00 - [35] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: REDBACK96USMC wrote: If you let them lay there, they can either respawn on the fastest link (3 seconds is the fastest) if available or wait for their revive timer to run out. If you clone (ensure the body cant be revived) They are stuck with a 10 second spawn and loss of the clone. Better just to finish them off. Why are they stuck with a 10 second spawn? And even if it's 10 seconds how is it better to get them back into the match (on the other team) than to let them lay there waiting and then have to respawn anyway? What benefit is there to you or your team to finish them off? Do you get more points? Is there some bonus to you for getting the other team's player back into the match faster? Please do elaborate. I still can't see how finishing off a clone benefits you or your team in any way. Allow me When you are bleeding out in dust, every second you spend on the ground is subtracted from your respawn time, down to a minimum of 3 seconds. This is why you see the timer counting down on all available spawns on the map when you mash "continue" after getting downed. You can take a quick look at the map while your timers are going down, assess where you are needed most, change fits, and by the time you're ready to deploy you'll be there in 3 seconds. This really helps when your team has crappy standard or mediocre advanced drop uplinks down. Even the few seconds it takes for the Killed By window to appear and load up the map count, you'll often be down to 6-5 seconds if you're trying to select a spawn as quick as you can, and every second counts when you want to spawn back on a control point being attacked by the enemy. If a spawn point pops or gets hacked, you'll only waste a few moments spawning on the next nearest one. AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, YOU CAN STILL BE REVIVED. You can call for help before even opening up the map and looking around, and until you actually select a spawn point, you're revivable. You can actively monitor your corpse on the map and determine whether or not it is likely you will be revived, and pretty much immediately respawn anywhere you want if it doesn't look good. But when someone terminates your clone, THE RESPAWN TIMER DOESN'T COUNT DOWN UNTIL YOU SELECT A SPAWN. Don't take my word for it, go start a domination/skirmish map, intentionally fall to your death from the MCC. Observe the spawn times. Now overcook a grenade or sit on top of a RE. Observe the longer spawn times. Every single second you spend waiting for the kill screen to load after being terminated, pressing continue, and selecting a point on the map to respawn is working against your team. Now you're taking upwards of 15-20 seconds to spawn when you add all those seconds together, and the things that can go wrong will start piling up. You can't react to a point or CRU being hacked because they WILL finish the hack before you spawn in, and you'll have just wasted that attempt. The uplink you spent 10 seconds waiting on after selecting it can pop... maybe the control point/CRU gets hacked when you were down to 2 seconds... and each time, you're back to waiting the full spawn time of every alternative spawn point you try. Tried to spawn on two uplinks that both popped? You've wasted another 15 seconds, and you still need to wait at least 10 seconds on your next attempt! If you're really lucky, someone on your team might have proto uplinks and be alive on the field as a max skill amarr logi giving you a 4-6 second spawn option. Cause if they're dead or changed classes, you're back to 8-10+ seconds. Terminating the clone of someone defending a point can decide whether you'll successfully hack it, or if you'll get shotgunned by the same guy. When you terminate a clone with an explosive weapon or by shooting their corpse, you are potentially wasting enormous amounts of their time in the match... kind of like your Alliance's tactic in EVE. You were keeping people out of battle for longer by letting their pod live. But this isn't EVE, and you tried to apply that tactic without correctly adapting it to suit the game. Here, you're slowing down their respawn by terminating them. Not that you should ALWAYS terminate every chance you get, not every tactic is one-size-fits-all. As you know, keeping your sights on someone you expect to call for a revive can get you a bonus kill on them and maybe the logi too. This is a game mechanic that has been around as far as I know since the beginning, though I've only noticed it since the patch that significantly nerfed spawn times on uplinks. WHY it works this way? I couldn't tell you. I didn't design the damn game. But that's the way it is. Something you should have noticed, asked about, or been told about before now. Definitely before making a thread about "the IQ or age of dust players" implying everyone else acting on information you don't know about to be some low IQ children unworthy of playing the same game as you. Which doesn't reflect very well on your own maturity btw TL:DR All spawn timers count down while bleeding out allowing you to get back to battle faster if you choose not to be revived, they don't while you're terminated and you must wait the full 10 seconds every time, you should therefore terminate your enemy if the situation allows and you don't want to be shot in the back by them too soon
Sergeant Sazu Mantodea MC 814	Posted - 2015.12.22 20:45:00 - [36] - Quote Flawless explanation^ [85.8m SP] -The Swagmaster Logi- "Thukker? I hardly know 'er!" -CeeJ Mantis
jett it S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D General Tso's Alliance 585	Posted - 2015.12.22 20:53:00 - [37] - Quote I am the dude that will kill a heavy run away wait for that heavies logi to pick them up run back and then kill the heavy again and the logi cloning them both 3 for the price of 2 clones. Now thats using your IQ... As for my age i am 115 years old and thats going by dust lifetime SP. lel. http://www.youtube.com/c/jettGaming
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 212	Posted - 2015.12.22 21:07:00 - [38] - Quote Dead Cavino wrote: I can think of a few strategic reasons to clone redberries out. Just a few of the top of my head. 1. Games that come down do clone count. ie. both teams have 10 clones left, cloning the enemy could mean victory over defeat. 2. If the downed enemy is in a squad, then their passive scans stay up until they bleed out. 1. Yes, when you're down to 10 clones each side, finishing off a clone makes sense. When you do it during a match with ample clones on both sides, there's no point. MY point is that the majority of players seem to finish off downed clones not because of any strategic reason, but just because it's expected to do so. I maintain that if anyone thought about this, and resisted the urge to violence of finishing off a downed clone just to "complete the kill", you would realise it's best to just leave them lying there. I maintain that anyone with a strategic view of this would generally NOT finish off a clone unless and until the end of a match if the other side was down to critical numbers.
benandjerrys warravens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2015.12.22 21:10:00 - [39] - Quote benandjerrys wrote: Provi bloc!?! https://youtu.be/m6lJGddizTQ Well from a fellow bloccer This technique is used by those clone count sensitive. Every clone matters. Your position is about to get overrun you don't want that -1 become a +1. That loss in isk efficiency is also negated over one needle spike. Killing a clone is also one less data point to the other side they see the needle indication not you, that body is broadcasted regardless of comms that enables the enemy to know that you are within 50 meters regardless on how dampened you are. Tl;Dr Term your clones. I agree with your EvE logic of holding the pod, but this ain't eggo wars m8 Free isk! (comment with in game name) #portdust514
Apoleon II Rooky rooks 34	Posted - 2015.12.22 21:20:00 - [40] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Dead Cavino wrote: I can think of a few strategic reasons to clone redberries out. Just a few of the top of my head. 1. Games that come down do clone count. ie. both teams have 10 clones left, cloning the enemy could mean victory over defeat. 2. If the downed enemy is in a squad, then their passive scans stay up until they bleed out. 1. Yes, when you're down to 10 clones each side, finishing off a clone makes sense. When you do it during a match with ample clones on both sides, there's no point. MY point is that the majority of players seem to finish off downed clones not because of any strategic reason, but just because it's expected to do so. I maintain that if anyone thought about this, and resisted the urge to violence of finishing off a downed clone just to "complete the kill", you would realise it's best to just leave them lying there. I maintain that anyone with a strategic view of this would generally NOT finish off a clone unless and until the end of a match if the other side was down to critical numbers. Maybe,but you MUST do a teabag Sorry for my bad english :$

sir RAVEN WING RabbitGang 5	Posted - 2015.12.22 21:53:00 - [41] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote: jane stalin wrote: Joel II X wrote: And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. I find, at the current, that it is largely useless to terminate a lone wolf clone in Pubs. However, I still do it a lot of the time, especially in PC or FW, because needles are more common then. Why exactly do I 'clone' them? Well, in FW and PC, they are likely going to be in a squad, which means they will likely have a logi and more guns. They call for help and that could mean more guns aiming at you. They get sent back faster, and lose a clone. - This helps work to cloning their them. They die and die. In some instances, the players will come back for revenge. It is possible to use this to your advantage and kill them again. It's irritating - Throws them off their game just a bit, especially if you killed them with a weapon like a locus, or NKs. I seriously have felt as if I was one of the few who cloned downed players. =ƒç+=ƒç¬ Retired Merc... for now. "it's just buried by 3 pages." - Cat Merc
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 02:58:00 - [42] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: all cases where finishing clones off is done- explosives obviously headshots for snipers or heavy vs heavy or people standing still in pc to help prevent spawning speed in general, a grenade allows you to chuck and forget in pubs when you kill someone near their cru or hidden uplink or obj to give time for removal of spawn point when you've seen redberries use needles when you're in a meat grinder and they have logis when you killed an officer or exp gear scrubby when ya just wanna unload your entire magazine into ****** deads body like youre the bear jew. edit* h1tlers censored because ccp are lizard people. Excluding the cases where a clone is terminated as part of the initial kill - Quote: in pc to help prevent spawning speed in general, a grenade allows you to chuck and forget How does that benefit you or your team? It would only work if you expect them to respawn immediately. If they were however going to call for help, they could be sitting there waiting for 20 seconds for help to arrive before being forced to respawn anyway... All you are doing is speeding up their respawning, not slowing it down. Quote: when ya just wanna unload your entire magazine into ****** deads body like youre the bear jew. This is more like the sort of reason I think people are doing it, but it's misguided. Finishing off the clone doesn't achieve enough of a time benefit to my mind - you're better off just leaving them there to stew.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:02:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I terminate clones as a matter of habit. I don't like people recovering behind me. Yes, exactly. It's a habit. And I believe it's pointless, because they will "recover" anyway, when they respawn. You've won your points, if you just leave them there hoping to be revived, you've kept them out of the battle that little big longer.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:04:00 - [44] - Quote bane sieg wrote: You come in here talking about IQ but don't understand why it's smart to terminate clones. Ever lose a battle by just a few clones? Had you terminated some clones you might have won. If you really want to understand the importance of terminating clones go play some pc where every clone counts. Yes, undeniably there are times when terminating clones is strategicly important. But not all the time. When the other side (or even your side for that matter) is down to just a few clones and you want them to run out before you do, that's the time to terminate them, not during the battle when you can keep them out of the battle by leaving them there.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:06:00 - [45] - Quote Apoleon II wrote: I do it because I like it, if you are talking about IQ or age....... Wtf. Maybe sir you should turn off your ps3 an search the cure of the cancer, I can't type more, I'm in battle, so, excuse me Exactly. Quote: I do it because I like it At least you're honest.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:11:00 - [46] - Quote Sergeant Sazu wrote: "What? Someone's living their life differently than me? Better question their intelligence before anything else." lol It doesn't bother me. I just think it's pointless and stupid. In my case, I habitually respawn anyway because I don't like hanging around waiting for a medic. But given there are people who would do so, leaving them there to wait is a much more beneficial thing to do for your team because 1. it keeps them out of the battle that much longer 2. they might actually succeed in calling for help and you can take out both them and their help when it arrives 3. you don't waste time terminating the clone. Yes, I do question the intelligence of anyone who does something pointless and self-defeating without thinking.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:14:00 - [47] - Quote benandjerrys wrote: Provi bloc!?! https://youtu.be/m6lJGddizTQ Well from a fellow bloccer This technique is used by those clone count sensitive. Every clone matters. Your position is about to get overrun you don't want that -1 become a +1. That loss in isk efficiency is also negated over one needle spike. Killing a clone is also one less data point to the other side they see the needle indication not you, that body is broadcasted regardless of comms that enables the enemy to know that you are within 50 meters regardless on how dampened you are. Tl;Dr Term your clones. Yes, I see your points. I don't agree with them as the basis for terminating clones. If you leave them lying there, they will be taken out of the battle for much longer unless of course they choose to respawn. I guess the people who see the point in terminating clones will never see the point in deliberately not doing so and vice versa. Quote: Well from a fellow bloccer It was fun wasn't it?! :)
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:23:00 - [48] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: If you terminate a clone you actually force them to take a longer spawn time. Therefore taking them out of battle longer. Thanks for explaining that. Yes, I can see how that would work IF they were not going to call for help, but just respawn. I think it probably comes down to your own habits. If you tend to respawn rather than call for help yourself, you are probably going to expect others to do the same. Quote: Also If the clone isnt terminated it will still provide passive scans. This is especially dangerous because the inner scan ring of suits can get strong enough to pick up scouts. With that many of the enemy around you're going to take the time to terminate a clone?.... Quote: One unterminated Logi with precision can still light up key areas and essentially turn into alert beacons for scouts that run by them. Yes, this makes sense. I think there are some strategic things in what you are saying, but for pubs it seems a bit over the top. Maybe for FW or PC...
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:26:00 - [49] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Quote: Hence the average IQ of most redberries. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. That would totally be legit, except for the fact that most players - including myself - simply spam circle and don't bother waiting for a revive. Yes, exactly as I suspected was the reason at least some people habitually terminate the clone. Do you know that most players do this? How do you know that? I do myself, unless there's a medic nearby, in which case the enemy has already been taken out or has left the scene. It takes much longer to wait for help than it does to be forced to respawn.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:29:00 - [50] - Quote aussy sledge wrote: You know.... You can spawn while your clone is dying, once you spawn in though it terminates the clone.. Yes, of course. I do it all the time, unless there's a medic nearby, in which case I call for help, but sometimes the help doesn't arrive for a very long time, 20s or more. If the red had terminated my clone, I would have respawned faster.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:31:00 - [51] - Quote DEV Stupid Head wrote: Absolutely not Always double tap if possible Destroys the clone and cannot be revived aaaaaannd killing the clone does do something else......it is very subtle and I'm not going to tell you what it is...... Yes, I know, if feels good. I've done it myself, when I saw others do it, early on, and wondered what the benefit is. I determined there is non, all the arguments for it notwithstanding. Well, yes, there is a benefit, but it's not enough to outweigh the benefit of just leaving them there to stew.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:33:00 - [52] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: When i play as a logi dropping uplink and hives then see a dying teammate i drop repair hives at them not injecting needles. Sometimes i mistakenly throw grenades aat them. It was a mistake i assurre you. Promise. Scouts honor and all that. lol Yes of course...
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 901	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:38:00 - [53] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Moved from another thread: Soto Gallente wrote: jane stalin wrote: Joel II X wrote: And the opposition did nothing to take them out? For shame. When snipers do that, they're actually easier to spot since their field is limited. Most of the reds took a good position to shoot at people near the objective, they just wanted kills Hence the average IQ of most redberries. I've wondered about the IQ of most Dust players. Or perhaps their age... Does anyone else find the practice of "finishing off" a clone to be pointless and stupid? We have a practice in EvE called "podding", where a second kill is made, first of the ship, then of the capsule (pod) itself, forcing the pilot back to his medical clone. In ProviBloc, we actually don't do this. It has become expected so that in fleet fights, the opponents just come back into battle as soon as they can hop into another ship and warp/jump back in. But if you don't pod them, they sit there, waiting (they can't move because they're warp scrambled). And waiting. And waiting. Eventually, they get the message - they're not gonna get podded, and they'll have to self-destruct. That effectively takes them out of the action until they figure out they need to do something. In Dust we have something similar. Granted each side has limited clones, which is not the case in EvE but effectively, people in EvE are not going to just come back an unlimited number of times, because they will have limited numbers of ships. So, with Dust, we have the situation where a clone is "incapacitated" for a period of time when they just sit there calling for help, if there's any available, and then when that time is up, they respawn into another clone. For the entirety of the time it takes for the clone to be resurrected or for it to expire, whichever comes first, that player is out of the battle. That means their side is down a player. If their clone is terminated, they get straight back in just as soon as they can respawn which is usually a lot quicker than waiting for assistance. Players who finish off an opponent aren't gaining anything from the second "kill" - there's no increase in their score. All they are doing is sending that player back into battle ASAP. Perhaps that means to them that they will get more kills? Anyway, I've developed a distaste for such players, and consider them mental midgets. It's the sort of practice that reminds me of kids habitually doing something because everyone does. I've also noticed that there are some players (me included) who habitually do NOT do this. Even though it delays my getting back into battle, if I choose to call for help, I'm actually kinda glad to find a player for whom this practice is not an automatic thing. It takes some players quite a lot of time and resources (ammo) to finish off another player. I sometimes wonder at the marksmanship of a player that can't hit a body lying still on the ground, or players that lob multiple grenades at you when a single shot would do. All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. Brings down clone count fast, and you can respawn while incapacitated. Are we done here? Just a Caldari living the clean life. ( -í° -£-û -í°) No.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 04:09:00 - [54] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: When you terminate someones clone, the respawn timers don't auto-countdown. As long as their clone is alive, the spawns keep counting down to 3 seconds (if they start at a base of 10 seconds). As said above it also ensures 1 clone is lost immediately from the clone count, prevents them from being revives, but it also ensures that any ISK value of that suit is lost. 1. Officer Suits/Weapon wielding suits - Terminating clones ensures that equipment is lost, and cannot be recovered via logi needle. Officer Equipped suits are always terminated regardless of likelihood of needles nearby. 2. Sentinels (and heavies in general) - Fewer things in this game are as frightening to a support troop as an amarr sentinel standing back up at 100% HP. 3. PRO Logistics Suits - Ensure the greatest ISK damage done to the enemy team. Almost always carry high tier uplinks as well 4. Assaults/Scouts - Very dangerous if picked back up 5. All other suits Also, I will terminate clones as a follow up to breaching into a meat-grinder (with a flux grenade) to ensure there is no chance of any of the above getting resurrected by logis that spawn in or haven't been eliminated yet. I have found that more often than not when I'm running a punching commando, suits are terminated by my fist anyway, so there is rarely any need to stop. When Sniping, Terminating Sentinels and Caldari Assault Suits takes priority over killing living assault suits (but is below killing logis and other snipers), to give my advancing teammates optimal chances and maximize my rifle's effectiveness. Points taken. Some of this seems somewhat vindictive and not necessarily of much benefit in the current battle, but it sounds reasonable. I personally still think this is very over-the-top, particularly for pubs, unless you're a stomper. For FW and PC, yes, this makes sense.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 04:13:00 - [55] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: The sooner they respawn, the sooner you can kill them again, which means: - Better KD (for those that care) - Higher isk payout at the end of battle (terminating a lot of proto suits gets you a lot more isk, if they aren't proto, who cares it's more isk) - Eliminates any chance they had at getting picked back up. There are more positives than negatives tbh. Of these, the only one that strikes me as different from what anyone else has said is: Quote: Higher isk payout at the end of battle (terminating a lot of proto suits gets you a lot more isk, if they aren't proto, who cares it's more isk) I thought ISK payout was based on your share of the takings, proportional to your share of WP from the match. Do you have some definitive sources to say what you are saying is the case?
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 04:14:00 - [56] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: The only time it's useful is when you are aiming to take a CRU, and you just killed the guy who's onto your antics. By double tapping him, you have 10 seconds to hack the CRU. If you don't double tap, he'll respawn and shoot you in the back before you even get half way. When a CRU is not involved, I see it as simply adding insult to injury. Agreed!
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 6	Posted - 2015.12.23 04:16:00 - [57] - Quote You gain additional payout from finishing off a clone. This is a fact. This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 04:16:00 - [58] - Quote Devadander wrote: For me this is situational. If I kill a random on the fringes. He lays there dead. Heavy logi team. If I drop the heavy I go for logi. It's very rare to see 80% or better needles, so a revived heavy is an easy kill. Killing the logi I will finish with a flux, any old blue could have a dirty needle for him. Randoms, hardly ever. (Unless you were a pain...) Jumpers. Every time. Full mag. Officer/exp/pro. Of course. In the end that's the true spirit of our game. Wow. I so often agree with you, Devandander. Especially: Quote: Jumpers. Every time. Full mag. I hate those guys! :)
Sylwester Dziewiecki 533	Posted - 2015.12.23 04:52:00 - [59] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: (...) All in all, I find the practice idiotic. I would love to hear any arguments from anyone that can see a purpose to this that actually makes sense in a battle-scenario manner. Well, I have feelings that majority of Dust player-base right now is around 12-14yr old, but it has nothing to do with 'finishing clone'. I think you incorrectly judge it, partially because you are trying to compare it to EVE mechanic in way like it is only a pleasure to harass people by killing they pode, because then they will have bigger problem and will wining even more because of it - both mechanic in Dust, and in EVE has something in common, but it has nothing to do with dealing more pain to the victim, it is more about tactical kill. Examples: 1) 1v1 - Two players fight on CRU: One of them hacked CRU earlier but he is in militia suit, second one came to hack it with his adv suit - he have advantage over his opponent and killing him fast, but he is not killing his clone, he goes straight to CRU to hack it(unfortunately he do not have hacking module, or MM S suit, all he have is Hacking on lvl1). So, the guy who just die in militia suit patiently and calmly right after drooping on the floors go to spawn screen, then chose fully tanked suit and spawn on CRU to finish off his harmed and nothing expected opponent. Normally if player who came to hack CRU would finish off enemy clone by trowing grenade, guy would not have enough time to spawn on the same CRU, because of 10 seconds penalty before another spawn OR if he would have Hacking skill on lvl3 or beyond (if I'm correct). Same story for hacking nulls terminals. (And I'm gone point it once again - the longer you stay on incapacitated mode the faster you will be able to redeploy to battle. People who die hard always need to wait 10sec. If someone destroy uplink they were about to spawn, then they have another 10 sec of waiting on another uplink. ) 2) Another 1v1, but this time one of the players is AScout and he have squad: So two players come across and one of them killing another surprisingly fast, he is happy that he survive and save his officer fit. But what he is not aware is that the guy who he just droop incapacitated is Amarr Scout with e-war fit; and despite that fact that he is dead and he can not kill him he keep realign his 50+ meter passive scanner that light up every redberry in his radius to his squad build up from H/L. They came and **** officer apart. If officer-guy would kill incapacited Scout he would instantly drop from passive scanner. Game is constructed in way that you have no idea that entire team sees you on passive. 3) Scout-shootty v. Squad of 4. Long story, short story: Scout kills 3 players and have to reaload, the 4-th player kill him and inject his 3 friends. Scout loses tons of ISK despite the fact that he was aiming at head, and he was killing them with last shoot when they had 2-5% of HP left. The last guy in the squad saved they clones, so they items will not go to loot pools at the end of match. 4) Kill right before end of match. Everyone who is incapacited while match ends, save they fit like they were not killed, and of cures they fitting do not go to loot pool at the end. This is Skirmish v1.0
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 213	Posted - 2015.12.23 10:52:00 - [60] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: Allow me ..... But when someone terminates your clone, THE RESPAWN TIMER DOESN'T COUNT DOWN UNTIL YOU SELECT A SPAWN. Don't take my word for it, go start a domination/skirmish map, intentionally fall to your death from the MCC. Observe the spawn times. Now overcook a grenade or sit on top of a RE. Observe the longer spawn times. .... Terminating the clone of someone defending a point can decide whether you'll successfully hack it, or if you'll get shotgunned by the same guy. .... When you terminate a clone with an explosive weapon or by shooting their corpse, you are potentially wasting enormous amounts of their time in the match... kind of like your Alliance's tactic in EVE. You were keeping people out of battle for longer by letting their pod live. But this isn't EVE, and you tried to apply that tactic without correctly adapting it to suit the game. Here, you're slowing down their respawn by terminating them. .... Not that you should ALWAYS terminate every chance you get, not every tactic is one-size-fits-all. As you know, keeping your sights on someone you expect to call for a revive can get you a bonus kill on them and maybe the logi too. .... This is a game mechanic that has been around as far as I know since the beginning, though I've only noticed it since the patch that significantly nerfed spawn times on uplinks. WHY it works this way? I couldn't tell you. I didn't design the damn game. But that's the way it is. Something you should have noticed, asked about, or been told about before now. Definitely before making a thread about "the IQ or age of dust players" implying everyone else acting on information you don't know about to be some low IQ children unworthy of playing the same game as you. ..... Which doesn't reflect very well on your own maturity btw ..... TL:DR All spawn timers count down while bleeding out allowing you to get back to battle faster if you choose not to be revived, they don't while you're terminated and you must wait the full 10 seconds every time, you should therefore terminate your enemy if the situation allows and you don't want to be shot in the back by them too soon Thanks for the reply - all good points. I do understand the point of slowing down the respawn, but this is only if the player concerned was not going to call for help. If they were, which is apparently a preferred option to "save a clone for your team", then you are actually speeding up their respawn. As for my comments about IQ and age, this tactic and the obsessive use of it by players who seem to do it by habit or just pure spite, seems wildly over the top to me, especially in pubs where I see it all the time. Yes, I used the word "obsessive" - that's what it seems to be to me. Thanks for your reply, I've actually played quite a few matches today since reading it and I can verify everything you say. For myself, who usually chooses to respawn just as soon as the kill screen comes up, this certainly does slow me down. It also uses up a clone, which is what I thought was the point of it. For those who prefer to try to revive, this tactic actually gets them back into the match quicker. Clearly this is something that the player concerned must decide for him or her self. Myself, I will probably never again terminate a clone deliberately. There's such a thing as respect, even on the battlefield. Scrubs don't have it. But there are clearly people, some of whom have replied here, that do.



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