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Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 09:55:00 - [1] - Quote The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 496	Posted - 2015.10.21 09:56:00 - [2] - Quote I've spent hundreds of millions of ISK stockpiling officer weapons, removing them isn't right now is it? Jack of all trades, master of none.
Dont-be-a-D1CK Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 267	Posted - 2015.10.21 10:02:00 - [3] - Quote 500 Nothi's NK About 1000 more of Officer weapons I use.. Another 1000 more of Officer stuff I don't use. tbh I should have seen this coming and stockpiled more.. But a headstart is nice, one flaw with the idea here is no experimental NK to refund me with As usual it will be NPE and the playerbase that suffer for CCP's mistakes Well that was a surprise.
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 226	Posted - 2015.10.21 10:15:00 - [4] - Quote Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: 500 Nothi's NK About 1000 more of Officer weapons I use.. Another 1000 more of Officer stuff I don't use. You got these playing within the rules of the game, so nothing personal. But: That is a disgusting amount of officer gear to have, and I'm sure there's players that have more. CCP knew they were creating OP weapons but their justification was that they would be 'rare'. Now all we're left with are OP weapons that are only 'rare' to those that don't have the ISK or SP for them - that is, new players. Something is killing new player retention.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.21 10:18:00 - [5] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down You can stop there. Trading is not being shut down. Farming officer gear from the warbarge is being shut down. There is a HUGE difference. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 10:37:00 - [6] - Quote The old bait and switch lol. Won't effect the officer stomps since newbs will still sell what they get in salvage and never have them, and the elites have thousands stockpiled. It's actually hilarious.
Foo Fighting Blank Application 560	Posted - 2015.10.21 10:45:00 - [7] - Quote It was only weeks ago Ratatti said he was surprised not much is being fielded - more fickle than my missus!
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:17:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down You can stop there. Trading is not being shut down. Farming officer gear from the warbarge is being shut down. There is a HUGE difference. You kill the supply of an item, you kill the trade of that item. RNG key drops are not a reliable supply. There is no reason to trade any officer gear I have in the hopes that maybe todays sinlge decryptor key will restock my supply. Frankly it wont. You are far more likely to recieve advanced or complex modules. Just go the distance, remove all officer gear that was "farmed" as you put it. The CPM made the argument that officer is too prevalent, but if you dont remove its prevalance, then you killed the officer trade for no reason. Leaving massive officer stockpiles in the hands of some players is the same as dfoing nothing at all. Refund players for the items true isk value. Remove officer gear from everyone. Restart the officer trade economy from scratch. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Dont-be-a-D1CK Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 270	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:31:00 - [9] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: 500 Nothi's NK About 1000 more of Officer weapons I use.. Another 1000 more of Officer stuff I don't use. You got these playing within the rules of the game, so nothing personal. But: That is a disgusting amount of officer gear to have, and I'm sure there's players that have more. CCP knew they were creating OP weapons but their justification was that they would be 'rare'. Now all we're left with are OP weapons that are only 'rare' to those that don't have the ISK or SP for them - that is, new players. Exactly the amount I was going for I barely use it, just wanted it so Jara Kumora would notice me Note: In the first days of trading, I had well over 1000 already so 1:1 trades got a lot of my stockpile, as a dedicated Minmatar gypsy, buying it at stupid prices is something I avoid.. I use NK/PLC the rest was just gathered for the sake of it. Market prices are ret*rded.. as it is.. this change will increase them.. meaning only long term players / those that made profits from PC 1.0 will have the luxury of spending on ISK them, so I am glad I got in before this change Well that was a surprise.
Dont-be-a-D1CK Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 270	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:38:00 - [10] - Quote As far as reset... Why ?? You think reseting the weapons will change anything ?? For a while maybe.. but it was the ease of gathering ISK that caused some players to have much more than others, while having this ISK, gear can be purchased again.. So you don't change anything.. Other than add a chore for those who want gear. - I'd support a full ISK+Asset+SP reset, but not an asset change like the one mentioned in OP as it is not the players fault CCP did not see this coming.. you'd think years of mercs crying about imbalance between player funding would have been noticed by now, but no.. CCP will keep beating around the bush, trying to fix the mess that they let happen. If you truly cared about balance, you would be seeking full resets. No need to take my stash now that you can't have any Well that was a surprise.

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:55:00 - [11] - Quote Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: As far as reset... Why ?? You think reseting the weapons will change anything ?? For a while maybe.. but it was the ease of gathering ISK that caused some players to have much more than others, while having this ISK, gear can be purchased again.. So you don't change anything.. Other than add a chore for those who want gear. - I'd support a full ISK+Asset+SP reset, but not an asset change like the one mentioned in OP as it is not the players fault CCP did not see this coming.. you'd think years of mercs crying about imbalance between player funding would have been noticed by now, but no.. CCP will keep beating around the bush, trying to fix the mess that they let happen. If you truly cared about balance, you would be seeking full resets. No need to take my stash now that you can't have any We are geting a free SP reset next event. True isk vallue is something like 2 million per offcer weapon. You can extrapolate from the 10% trade tax how much the true isk value of an item is. Yeah, i am all for full resets. If you gathered all 500 officer NKs from the warbarge, the CPM might have a leg to stand on when it comes to ending its generation in the warbarge. But you didnt, it was all meta game. Killing the meta game just leaves massive stockpiles like yours to trade, and as you said, unless you got PC 1.0 isk you are economically locked out of the market. Just end that imbalance right now. Half measures are not enough. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 445	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:00:00 - [12] - Quote Rare items should be rare...... end of story. Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 906	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:01:00 - [13] - Quote I have over 500 viks. Problem is, I paid trade prices for these. 250-400k depending on the day. There is no way to remove these amounts of stockpiles that won't severely tick people off. 95% of us were just grinding and buying what we could. Boxes are still a crazy source seeing how many one receives constantly. Most of my current empire is from opening like 2000 boxes.. But 99% of that crap I don't use, so it went to jara. To make isk. To buy more viks. Remove officer from lab, totally fine. Remove officer from our inventory, I'm done. There's a time~value there. Removal from lab will already skyrocket prices. Making the rich richer, and suffer the daily grinders. This is very thin and crispy ice we tread on now. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 5	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:03:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: You want a level playing field, so make one. When I'm not playing DUST, I farm
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:03:00 - [15] - Quote Lady MDK wrote: Rare items should be rare...... end of story. So lets make them rare. Remove them all + isk refund. Reintroduce them only via strongboxes. Otherwise they are just wildly plentiful for some, and extremley rare for others. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 229	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:03:00 - [16] - Quote Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: 500 Nothi's NK About 1000 more of Officer weapons I use.. Another 1000 more of Officer stuff I don't use. You got these playing within the rules of the game, so nothing personal. But: That is a disgusting amount of officer gear to have, and I'm sure there's players that have more. CCP knew they were creating OP weapons but their justification was that they would be 'rare'. Now all we're left with are OP weapons that are only 'rare' to those that don't have the ISK or SP for them - that is, new players. Exactly the amount I was going for I barely use it, just wanted it so Jara Kumora would notice me Note: In the first days of trading, I had well over 1000 already so 1:1 trades got a lot of my stockpile, as a dedicated Minmatar gypsy, buying it at stupid prices is something I avoid.. I use NK/PLC the rest was just gathered for the sake of it. Market prices are ret*rded.. as it is.. this change will increase them.. meaning only long term players / those that made profits from PC 1.0 will have the luxury of spending on ISK them, so I am glad I got in before this change I wonder how many thing in Dust that seem so completely broken would be fixed by a big old delete of all the PC 1.0 ISK? Something is killing new player retention.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 907	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:14:00 - [17] - Quote To clarify: I was never part of pc1.0. Never part of a giant corp. Never had taxes on my corp. Never scammed anyone. Never ran exploits. Had 900m pre-trading. I am now worth 2.2b. I have made my isk the hard way. And yes, buying aur and selling the items is hard too. I work for my money. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:18:00 - [18] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. So, how long until you want experimental gear removed as well? Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 229	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:20:00 - [19] - Quote Devadander wrote: To clarify: I was never part of pc1.0. Never part of a giant corp. Never had taxes on my corp. Never scammed anyone. Never ran exploits. Had 900m pre-trading. I am now worth 2.2b. I have made my isk the hard way. And yes, buying aur and selling the items is hard too. I work for my money. And I'm sure there are others like you. Do you think having earned your own ISK changes your attitude towards stuff like running your officer gear in pubs? edit: I should clairfy that is a real question, not rhetorical. Something is killing new player retention.
Chocol Mcdonnel Dead Man's Game 84	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:21:00 - [20] - Quote Inbefore refund for each officer weapon is 100k isk

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 908	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:30:00 - [21] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Devadander wrote: To clarify: I was never part of pc1.0. Never part of a giant corp. Never had taxes on my corp. Never scammed anyone. Never ran exploits. Had 900m pre-trading. I am now worth 2.2b. I have made my isk the hard way. And yes, buying aur and selling the items is hard too. I work for my money. And I'm sure there are others like you. Do you think having earned your own ISK changes your attitude towards stuff like running your officer gear in pubs? edit: I should clairfy that is a real question, not rhetorical. Yes. I only pull a vik in fw. I have a one tank lost a day limit. I'm 99% of the time in my std bpo fits. I rarely loan isk. I only restock to 30 on most fits. I never use pro on std, modules or otherwise. This way, when a nation or corporation needs me, I can go full potato till the job is done. Basically dusts cheapest cheapa$$ lowl Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:30:00 - [22] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. So, how long until you want experimental gear removed as well? I dont want restrictions on either. I argued in favor of Officer gear for warbarge components. Since that argument failed, then i am just going along to the next logical step. CCP want officer gear to be rare, then this is the only way to actually make it happen. Otherwise its just window dressing. Rare for most, but common for some is really poor way to think about it. On experimental gear: I am positive that soon there are going to be threads about "too much experimental gear, its killling me, remove them from pubs" in the same vien as the complaints about officer weapons. I would not be surprised if the response is " lets change/reduce how many exp. weapons you can collect from the warbarge" When players complained about 6 man squads and got them nerfed, they were'nt satisfied and have moved on to complaining about 4 man squads and want pubs to be solo players only. The same guys complained about officer gear, will move on to complaining about exp gear. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:31:00 - [23] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in their ISK value? CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing access to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. To begin with, CCP has not "killed officer trade". They have ripped the bandaid off of passive generation; thus making officer weapons rare again. Experimental weapons will replace them on the battlefield and that is a good thing for veterans and newbies. The people who currently own stockpiles of officer gear will have them destroyed in battle. This problem corrects itself over time with every officer toy that gets destroyed. Asset loss is one of the unique things about New Eden. Let asset loss do its job. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 9	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:32:00 - [24] - Quote I don't really care too much about it since I rarely use officer gear and stock piled a few (though, not as much as other players). *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:32:00 - [25] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Devadander wrote: To clarify: I was never part of pc1.0. Never part of a giant corp. Never had taxes on my corp. Never scammed anyone. Never ran exploits. Had 900m pre-trading. I am now worth 2.2b. I have made my isk the hard way. And yes, buying aur and selling the items is hard too. I work for my money. And I'm sure there are others like you. Do you think having earned your own ISK changes your attitude towards stuff like running your officer gear in pubs? edit: I should clairfy that is a real question, not rhetorical. I wasn't in PC 1.0 I've only ever been in FA and a handful of other small corps. LOL Taxes Never scammed Never exploited I got all my ISK through playing PC and ringing in PC. Compared to a lot of people I know in PC, I'm also very poor only ever having at most 300 mil ISK in my wallet. I've known people with literal BILLIONS of ISK in PC. Keeping that in mind, I still think that people can run whatever the hell they want. It's a freaking sandbox game. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:34:00 - [26] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in their ISK value? CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing access to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. To begin with, CCP has not "killed officer trade". They have ripped the bandaid off of passive generation; thus making officer weapons rare again. Experimental weapons will replace them on the battlefield and that is a good thing for veterans and newbies. The people who currently own stockpiles of officer gear will have them destroyed in battle. This problem corrects itself over time with every officer toy that gets destroyed. Asset loss is one of the unique things about New Eden. Let asset loss do its job. I've been running my stockpile of aurum basic suits into the ground for a month. I havent even used 100 yet. You think that guys with 1000 officer weapons are going to finish them anytime soon? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:36:00 - [27] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: I've been running my stockpile of aurum basic suits into the ground for a month. I haven't even used 100 yet. You think that guys with 1000 officer weapons are going to finish them anytime soon? Depends on play time and how risk averse each player is. Also, last time I checked, basic AUR gear wasn't heavily in demand by PC corps "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 908	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:36:00 - [28] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in their ISK value? CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing access to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. To begin with, CCP has not "killed officer trade". They have ripped the bandaid off of passive generation; thus making officer weapons rare again. Experimental weapons will replace them on the battlefield and that is a good thing for veterans and newbies. The people who currently own stockpiles of officer gear will have them destroyed in battle. This problem corrects itself over time with every officer toy that gets destroyed. Asset loss is one of the unique things about New Eden. Let asset loss do its job. The exp ARR. I would rather use this than the ghalags. Before we flood the market with exp, lets consider lab only making 1 at default. Then +1 per level. This could nip future nerfs in the bud. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:38:00 - [29] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. So, how long until you want experimental gear removed as well? I dont want restrictions on either. I argued in favor of Officer gear for warbarge components. Since that argument failed, then i am just going along to the next logical step. CCP want officer gear to be rare, then this is the only way to actually make it happen. Otherwise its just window dressing. Rare for most, but common for some is really poor way to think about it. On experimental gear: I am positive that soon there are going to be threads about "too much experimental gear, its killling me, remove them from pubs" in the same vien as the complaints about officer weapons. I would not be surprised if the response is " lets change/reduce how many exp. weapons you can collect from the warbarge" When players complained about 6 man squads and got them nerfed, they were'nt satisfied and have moved on to complaining about 4 man squads and want pubs to be solo players only. The same guys complained about officer gear, will move on to complaining about exp gear. Believe me, I know. People whining like this will slowly, but surely, destroy this game. They will whine until officer is removed completely, then prototype, then advanced. Because they can't seem to get it through their mind that the problem exists between the controller and the chair, not in the game. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:39:00 - [30] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: I've been running my stockpile of aurum basic suits into the ground for a month. I haven't even used 100 yet. You think that guys with 1000 officer weapons are going to finish them anytime soon? Depends on play time and how risk averse each player is. Also, last time I checked, basic AUR gear wasn't heavily in demand by PC corps Running basic aur gear with and against randoms in pubs your going to lose far more suits than your 1 PC match a day. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:42:00 - [31] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Running basic aur gear with and against randoms in pubs your going to lose far more suits than your 1 PC match a day. Doesn't matter. During that PC match you could lose a half dozen or more pieces of officer gear. Now spread that out over hundreds of PC players, every day. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:54:00 - [32] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Running basic aur gear with and against randoms in pubs your going to lose far more suits than your 1 PC match a day. Doesn't matter. During that PC match you could lose a half dozen or more pieces of officer gear. Now spread that out over hundreds of PC players, every day. Well you have to also multiply those stockpiles across those same hundreds of PC players every day. Let play pure hyperbole, because its a thought experiment that nithier you or i should take seriously. Say across 100 players each player has 100 officer weapons stockpiled but they are losing 6 officer weapons per day and do not recieve any new officer weapons in the mean time. How long to run out? 100 players x100 weapons = 10,000 100 players x 6 lost gear =600 per day. 10,000/600 = 16.66 days. Not bad riley. What about 50 players with a 1,000 weapons? 83 days Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 229	Posted - 2015.10.21 12:55:00 - [33] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Devadander wrote: To clarify: I was never part of pc1.0. Never part of a giant corp. Never had taxes on my corp. Never scammed anyone. Never ran exploits. Had 900m pre-trading. I am now worth 2.2b. I have made my isk the hard way. And yes, buying aur and selling the items is hard too. I work for my money. And I'm sure there are others like you. Do you think having earned your own ISK changes your attitude towards stuff like running your officer gear in pubs? edit: I should clairfy that is a real question, not rhetorical. I wasn't in PC 1.0 I've only ever been in FA and a handful of other small corps. LOL Taxes Never scammed Never exploited I got all my ISK through playing PC and ringing in PC. Compared to a lot of people I know in PC, I'm also very poor only ever having at most 300 mil ISK in my wallet. I've known people with literal BILLIONS of ISK in PC. Keeping that in mind, I still think that people can run whatever the hell they want. It's a freaking sandbox game. At first glance it does seem like the game is set up to let people run what they want, but it's not entirely true. For your average player, pubs are going to be their main source of income. At ~250K/match that gives them about 5 ADV suits. 5 deaths is not a bad round? Not great, but not bad. 5 deaths in mid-tier gear just to not lose ISK. So what if that player wants to start running proto? How on earth does a player that generates ISK from pubs make the step up to being able to run proto? Derp around in STD or MLT for five or six matches just so they can run proto for one? Something is killing new player retention.
Dont-be-a-D1CK Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 274	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:02:00 - [34] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: You want a level playing field, so make one. Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: - I'd support a full ISK+Asset+SP reset Like that. I could totally get on board with this. Might be the only thing that kept me playing actually. It would spring new life into the game in an instant.. and overflow Rat-man's cup with tears = WIN. - Award SKINS for suits and weapons @ L5 - Boosters are an issue.. (But which is more important, value for your booster // actually having a playable game) With the setup of PC 2.0, a reset would make interesting changes across the entire game.. But I'll quit dreaming now, and use my ISK advantage along with experience in PC to ruin the game for other players, I may even jump on the Kaisar wagon.. and act like the players without these advantages are the problem Well that was a surprise.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:04:00 - [35] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: 500 Nothi's NK About 1000 more of Officer weapons I use.. Another 1000 more of Officer stuff I don't use. You got these playing within the rules of the game, so nothing personal. But: That is a disgusting amount of officer gear to have, and I'm sure there's players that have more. CCP knew they were creating OP weapons but their justification was that they would be 'rare'. Now all we're left with are OP weapons that are only 'rare' to those that don't have the ISK or SP for them - that is, new players. Exactly the amount I was going for I barely use it, just wanted it so Jara Kumora would notice me Note: In the first days of trading, I had well over 1000 already so 1:1 trades got a lot of my stockpile, as a dedicated Minmatar gypsy, buying it at stupid prices is something I avoid.. I use NK/PLC the rest was just gathered for the sake of it. Market prices are ret*rded.. as it is.. this change will increase them.. meaning only long term players / those that made profits from PC 1.0 will have the luxury of spending on ISK them, so I am glad I got in before this change I wonder how many thing in Dust that seem so completely broken would be fixed by a big old delete of all the PC 1.0 ISK? I know there's a lot of resentment in the community about some people having a whole lot of ISK that seemingly wasn't really earned. With it gone, anyone with a bunch of ISK could only have gotten it through hard work using the same systems we've all got access to. This is why if/when a port comes I'd be happy for a full ISK reset. Maybe not a popular thing to say but the passive ISK generation of PC 1.0 has caused so many problems and is still funding the stockpiling of these weapons. Hopefully switching the passive creation of them to active via EOM salvage and Strongboxes will help burn through them. CPM 1&2 Member CEO of DUST University
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 229	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:20:00 - [36] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: I wonder how many thing in Dust that seem so completely broken would be fixed by a big old delete of all the PC 1.0 ISK? I know there's a lot of resentment in the community about some people having a whole lot of ISK that seemingly wasn't really earned. With it gone, anyone with a bunch of ISK could only have gotten it through hard work using the same systems we've all got access to. This is why if/when a port comes I'd be happy for a full ISK reset. Maybe not a popular thing to say but the passive ISK generation of PC 1.0 has caused so many problems and is still funding the stockpiling of these weapons. Hopefully switching the passive creation of them to active via EOM salvage and Strongboxes will help burn through them. And what would your stance be on payouts? At the moment CCP seems to be encouraging ADV level gear in pubs with their ~250K/match payout. This would work fine if everyone's ISK came from pubs, but it doesn't. As long as there's much more profitable payouts in PC, the people that play PC are going to be able to out-spend the pub-players and thus jump down into pubs and wreck face. It'll just get to the point again that if you want to be able to spend at a competitive level, you're going to have to play PC. P.S Every time a CPM mentions a Port a kitty dies. Something is killing new player retention.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:28:00 - [37] - Quote Lets strap whiny little blueberries to our chests for more bullet resistance! Now that's what we need :D The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:46:00 - [38] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Devadander wrote: To clarify: I was never part of pc1.0. Never part of a giant corp. Never had taxes on my corp. Never scammed anyone. Never ran exploits. Had 900m pre-trading. I am now worth 2.2b. I have made my isk the hard way. And yes, buying aur and selling the items is hard too. I work for my money. And I'm sure there are others like you. Do you think having earned your own ISK changes your attitude towards stuff like running your officer gear in pubs? edit: I should clairfy that is a real question, not rhetorical. I wasn't in PC 1.0 I've only ever been in FA and a handful of other small corps. LOL Taxes Never scammed Never exploited I got all my ISK through playing PC and ringing in PC. Compared to a lot of people I know in PC, I'm also very poor only ever having at most 300 mil ISK in my wallet. I've known people with literal BILLIONS of ISK in PC. Keeping that in mind, I still think that people can run whatever the hell they want. It's a freaking sandbox game. At first glance it does seem like the game is set up to let people run what they want, but it's not entirely true. For your average player, pubs are going to be their main source of income. At ~250K/match that gives them about 5 ADV suits. 5 deaths is not a bad round? Not great, but not bad. 5 deaths in mid-tier gear just to not lose ISK. So what if that player wants to start running proto? How on earth does a player that generates ISK from pubs make the step up to being able to run proto? Derp around in STD or MLT for five or six matches just so they can run proto for one? This is a central point of the argument here. I personally don't care what weapons are being used except where it has a huge negative impact on the NPE. I've been the single strongest supporter of an 'unfair' playing field on these forums for the past three years, i don't support meta lock, and i want noobs mixed with vets in pubs to amplify the single-shard shared universe that is New Eden - but there's a limit to power differential beyond which it is insane to tread, and we've passed it. The NPSR(Noob Stomp Power Rating) of a vet has increased dramatically under Rattati's governance from four primary mechanisms: Soft tiericide. I'm hoping the forum has had enough time and experience with soft tiericide to finally realize that this was a buff to vet vs. noob power because we(vets) get more out of the base suit stats and more out of each module. I know the noobs felt it when i started fielding my 700+ ehp Raven C-1 suit for a few measly ISK. Warbarge damage buff. For the tryhards fielding officer weapons/suits in pubs this is doubtless at +5% or +6%. Strongbox officer drops. These amplify vet power, do absolutely nothin' for noob power. Warbarge Experimental Weapons Lab. Noobs can't or can't afford to use this, they're trying to train their weapon damage modifier up. Players spending $250 should not be part of anybody's game-design balance calculations. Now let's multiply these buffs to the NSPR of vets by the multiplier afforded through individual ewar, and then multiply it by the factor for shared ewar. Mwahahaha......gg Rattati, i can now consume noobs like the raspberries they are, cramming double-fisted handfuls of them down my leering vet gob until.....i need to reload...... I hope the devs don't spend a single second thinking about new player retention, that would be a needless waste of time because part of the answer is obvious and comes from changes made by the devs themselves in the recent history of the game. PSN: RationalSpark
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 232	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:55:00 - [39] - Quote The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. Something is killing new player retention.
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 426	Posted - 2015.10.21 13:55:00 - [40] - Quote But I love my Officer Laser Rifle \0/

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.10.21 14:01:00 - [41] - Quote LOL KILLZ wrote: But I love my Officer Laser Rifle I love it too - even when you kill me with it. PSN: RationalSpark
grongle hasworth Endless Hatred 17	Posted - 2015.10.21 14:14:00 - [42] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. just make it to where no more can be made in the warbarge or make it more rare to get officer gear from the warbarge. I am a director of Endless Haterd
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.10.21 14:33:00 - [43] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: 500 Nothi's NK About 1000 more of Officer weapons I use.. Another 1000 more of Officer stuff I don't use. You got these playing within the rules of the game, so nothing personal. But: That is a disgusting amount of officer gear to have, and I'm sure there's players that have more. CCP knew they were creating OP weapons but their justification was that they would be 'rare'. Now all we're left with are OP weapons that are only 'rare' to those that don't have the ISK or SP for them - that is, new players. Exactly the amount I was going for I barely use it, just wanted it so Jara Kumora would notice me Note: In the first days of trading, I had well over 1000 already so 1:1 trades got a lot of my stockpile, as a dedicated Minmatar gypsy, buying it at stupid prices is something I avoid.. I use NK/PLC the rest was just gathered for the sake of it. Market prices are ret*rded.. as it is.. this change will increase them.. meaning only long term players / those that made profits from PC 1.0 will have the luxury of spending on ISK them, so I am glad I got in before this change I wonder how many thing in Dust that seem so completely broken would be fixed by a big old delete of all the PC 1.0 ISK? I know there's a lot of resentment in the community about some people having a whole lot of ISK that seemingly wasn't really earned. With it gone, anyone with a bunch of ISK could only have gotten it through hard work using the same systems we've all got access to. This is why if/when a port comes I'd be happy for a full ISK reset. Maybe not a popular thing to say but the passive ISK generation of PC 1.0 has caused so many problems and is still funding the stockpiling of these weapons. Hopefully switching the passive creation of them to active via EOM salvage and Strongboxes will help burn through them. I'm fine with an ISK reset for port. But until then, everything so far has been acquired through valid, in game methods. They got the ISK, they have the right to do whatever they want with it. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.10.21 14:45:00 - [44] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. You have no freaking clue. You want to talk about unfair? SP wasn't reset after beta. Everyone coming in from open were behind. You know that amazing 750k SP cap? Used to be smaller as well. 400k IIRC. TAR and Laser rifles were more broken than anything that used to be in the game. Laser Rifle squads used to be called "The Fingers of Death". Death taxies existed. LAV's that were almost impossible to kill and could kill you if they barely even TOUCHED YOU. You would have matches with one or two of these people driving around playing bumper cars with infantry. BPO's were nowhere near as proliferate. It is so much easier for a new player to get into the game. You don't even need SP boosts anymore to try and catch up, simply playing will get you the SP you need. I remember when I felt like I had to buy the Elite pack for 2 straight months of active and passive boosts just to catch up to the competition (And to have BPO's to not lose too much ISK). Compared to what we had in the past, you guys are so much more blessed. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.21 15:22:00 - [45] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: [ You know that amazing 750k SP cap? Used to be smaller as well. 400k IIRC. Thought it was closer to 200k. Dropsuit Usage Rates
shanatak Prima Gallicus 37	Posted - 2015.10.21 15:41:00 - [46] - Quote NO NO NO I want to keep all my officers weapons!!! Officers weapons are the cherry on the cake
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 273	Posted - 2015.10.21 15:44:00 - [47] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: 500 Nothi's NK About 1000 more of Officer weapons I use.. Another 1000 more of Officer stuff I don't use. You got these playing within the rules of the game, so nothing personal. But: That is a disgusting amount of officer gear to have, and I'm sure there's players that have more. CCP knew they were creating OP weapons but their justification was that they would be 'rare'. Now all we're left with are OP weapons that are only 'rare' to those that don't have the ISK or SP for them - that is, new players. And CCP should have realized that people will break weak systems. So, because you could have three warbages producing gear per account, everyone eventually gets access to three labs, producing. This people who are so obsessed with getting ahead in a dead game and paid out the ass for WB components got there even faster and used that edge to farm items and make mountains of ISK. The warbarge itself was a horrible idea but CCP really wanted that money, and they were willing to break parts of the game to do it. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 12	Posted - 2015.10.21 15:44:00 - [48] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: [Good stuff about difficulties vets had to face] Oh, and you can now complete daily missions to earn bonus SP and ISK, accelerating the painful first 2 - 3 weeks of DUST 514 newberry-hood. If you are feeling flushed with cash, you can now triple stack passive and active boosters to rapidly gain SP and bridge that gap between newberry and vet even faster. Oh, and we didn't have the warbarge providing passive ISK and SP generation every day. "I get to fist tanks in butt" - Jadek Menaheim
DozersMouse XIII Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:19:00 - [49] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. Is it not? The amount of SP you can gain these days compared to back then. It used to take a month to get a million SP and that's grinding the cap with a booster These days it takes a week to get 3m plus SP addicted to the Kubo's GMK-16 banana cannon
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:29:00 - [50] - Quote DozersMouse XIII wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. Is it not? The amount of SP you can gain these days compared to back then. It used to take a month to get a million SP and that's grinding the cap with a booster These days it takes a week to get 3m plus SP Very true. Still want to see in match performance-based bonuses for noobs fighting the good fight against better skilled and better-geared vets. Would like to see fighting as the keystone to fast advancement, modified by AUR-based boosters if the player wants to advance faster. The message from the game mechanics should be 'get out there and fight bro, i got your back'. PSN: RationalSpark

Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:29:00 - [51] - Quote I have almost 100 balacs & Krins that iv got through salvage and the lab, I only have about 40 total rattatis that I got through 2 trades and a lot of lab visits. Your telling me that you gonna take all of that away and make it to where I have to wait another 3 ***** years just to get 1 weapon from a strong box because I can't afford real money to get 5000 keys? I'm sorry but ** you. At the original system before open beta ended, I had over 5 alex smg, 50 balacs, 30 krins, etc I got them once every week maybe and I never used them because I knew I couldn't get more. Now the system does it to where you get in salvage once a day every 10 years and strong boxes every 20 years. I will not submit to that kind of wait when I know there are people getting 100+ù the better luck just because they have money. Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C It's not a dick, don't take it so hard bruh- hate mail response
Summa Militum Abstract Requiem 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:33:00 - [52] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. Is this a joke?
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:34:00 - [53] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: [ You know that amazing 750k SP cap? Used to be smaller as well. 400k IIRC. Thought it was closer to 200k. Probably, its been a long time. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:35:00 - [54] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: [Good stuff about difficulties vets had to face] Oh, and you can now complete daily missions to earn bonus SP and ISK, accelerating the painful first 2 - 3 weeks of DUST 514 newberry-hood. If you are feeling flushed with cash, you can now triple stack passive and active boosters to rapidly gain SP and bridge that gap between newberry and vet even faster. Oh, and we didn't have the warbarge providing passive ISK and SP generation every day. I forgot about those as well. Lets not forget to mention free clone packs for PC so long as you're active. I remember having to donate ISK to the corp just to get fights and make sure our tankers could run tanks for PC. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 276	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:35:00 - [55] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: [ You know that amazing 750k SP cap? Used to be smaller as well. 400k IIRC. Thought it was closer to 200k. Probably, its been a long time. I think the old cap was 273k, so 400k with a booster running. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
argel999 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K The T.H.I.R.D Empire 35	Posted - 2015.10.21 16:36:00 - [56] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. Just kill them. ...SLAYER... Sometimes Pubs are more difficul than PCs, yea Scotty trolls you with a 16 vs 10 and anybody into squad
Z Vatican G0DS AM0NG MEN 48	Posted - 2015.10.21 17:01:00 - [57] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down You can stop there. Trading is not being shut down. Farming officer gear from the warbarge is being shut down. There is a HUGE difference. Huge difference indeed. I stock piled 400+ in Officer Light weapons and made almost 100 Mil. Plus I sell low since I feel any officer weapon shouldn't be that much since everyone had it. BUT Now since the value of officer weapons will slowly rise higher with the " Not TOO much" officer gear being provided for free. We can now say they will be rare after lots of people lose them. :D CEO of Hentai Fedeartion / *Caldari is Life- State Peacekeeper- Enemies of the Gallente*
Yoda Boss Dem Durrty Boyz 323	Posted - 2015.10.21 17:16:00 - [58] - Quote Devadander wrote: To clarify: I was never part of pc1.0. Never part of a giant corp. Never had taxes on my corp. Never scammed anyone. Never ran exploits. Had 900m pre-trading. I am now worth 2.2b. I have made my isk the hard way. And yes, buying aur and selling the items is hard too. I work for my money. Same. I did pay taxes here n there. Whatever. I'm not going to say how much isk I have. No scams and exploits. That's just stupid. I own like 15 apex suits and 1-2 skins per _______. (What's the word?) Body size? I remember a time when random people in squad would offer HUGE bounty on random people. Talk about the amount of isk I made then. Officer weapons. I been buying them up since trading opened up. So I have well over a billion isk worth in just officer items. Best part is I don't use officer gear. Lol. Some people like to play games on hard. Not very easy. I just buy stuff up because I can. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒGû¬.°n+í¤GÿåGùÅ.° GÖñGÖíTrade/saleGÖºGÖñ
Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2015.10.21 17:44:00 - [59] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. You have no freaking clue. You want to talk about unfair? SP wasn't reset after beta. Everyone coming in from open were behind. You know that amazing 750k SP cap? Used to be smaller as well. 400k IIRC. TAR and Laser rifles were more broken than anything that used to be in the game. Laser Rifle squads used to be called "The Fingers of Death". Death taxies existed. LAV's that were almost impossible to kill and could kill you if they barely even TOUCHED YOU. You would have matches with one or two of these people driving around playing bumper cars with infantry. BPO's were nowhere near as proliferate. It is so much easier for a new player to get into the game. You don't even need SP boosts anymore to try and catch up, simply playing will get you the SP you need. I remember when I felt like I had to buy the Elite pack for 2 straight months of active and passive boosts just to catch up to the competition (And to have BPO's to not lose too much ISK). Compared to what we had in the past, you guys are so much more blessed. All that, and not a mention of the word " fun." When I started back in Chrome... You know what I had even with no knowledge of the game mechanics? Fun. When I started this alt for Uprising, even with knowledge of the game, "fun" was hard to come by as a Minotaur. When I recently started a new character on a different PSN, same story: lack of this "fun" concept. All that crap you mentioned? Doesn't mean shlt. All it does is decrease the time it takes before the new player or whoever can start to have fun. But that means that there is going to be a slog through a time period where they are probably not going to enjoy themselves that much. At that point, why play? DUST should be fun from the get-go. (And all that is not me agreeing with the premise of this thread or other ideas contained therein) I'm the Minotaur You! Yes, you! You are an illiterate little twit.
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 240	Posted - 2015.10.21 18:20:00 - [60] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The reason was given officer trade is being shut down was too much officer in pubs: Should CCP remove all officer gear, refund the players in thier ISK value? This makes the most sense. - It stops all officer gear in pubs immediatley. - It undos immense damage that the CPM says the passive generation of Officer gear has done. - Experimental weapons can actually take the place of Officer gear. CCP says they are nearly similar. - It eliminates stockpiles in the hands of a realtive few players. CCP have killed officer trade anyway. Just go the distance and restart it all from scratch. Keeping officer gear in the hands of the richest players who stockpiled them just lets them stomp further. Removing acess to players who will have to get officer to fight in PC is damaging to say the least. You want a level playing field, so make one. OP, I suspect the heart of your post is really more about balance of game play more than anything else. Removing Officer gear might bring about balance but at what cost? Players have been playing the "game" as designed that is to say they are using the market to trade this gear or shooting other mercs with it. You won't see CCP remove this gear without risking a riot. If you want to balance the usage of Officer gear than you might want to acknowledge CCP has taken the appropriate right step in curbing the generation of the gear in the short term. In order to curb the utilization of the weapons I argue the fitting costs need for weapons need to come in line with the rest of the tiers. This would raise the cost and increase the risk of using these weapons. Eventually the glut of Officer weapons will settle out. Officer suits present a different issue and it's one I don't have a good solution for unless there is an additional skill level added above 5 for dropsuits. I don't think that would be downtime patch but something much more involved for CCP Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way with YES!

catsrule D3ATH CARD RUST415 55	Posted - 2015.10.21 18:39:00 - [61] - Quote But my 5000+ officer weapons ...... Why do we forget the things we want to remember but remember the things we want to forget ~ Unknown
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 365	Posted - 2015.10.21 19:53:00 - [62] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: You want a level playing field, so make one. Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: - I'd support a full ISK+Asset+SP reset Like that. I could totally get on board with this. Might be the only thing that kept me playing actually. Sadly the fact that it has not been done is contributing to the death of the game. Past mistakes and even the current ISK fountain that is PC has destroyed the game's economy. The NPE and pretty much any merc under 50mill SPs (you know the guys that would still spend money on the game) suffer from the ineptitude of the past from CCP. A reset would also separate the guys who actually love the game from those who simply love to ruin others' experience, as the **** bags who can't handle a level playing field will move on.
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 285	Posted - 2015.10.21 20:08:00 - [63] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: You want a level playing field, so make one. Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: - I'd support a full ISK+Asset+SP reset Like that. I could totally get on board with this. Might be the only thing that kept me playing actually. Sadly the fact that it has not been done is contributing to the death of the game. Past mistakes and even the current ISK fountain that is PC has destroyed the game's economy. The NPE and pretty much any merc under 50mill SPs (you know the guys that would still spend money on the game) suffer from the ineptitude of the past from CCP. A reset would also separate the guys who actually love the game from those who simply love to ruin others' experience, as the **** bags who can't handle a level playing field will move on. So basically you want rolling resets to keep the playing field level. Should work wonders for people thinking about investing that crybaby scrubs are going to get their progress rest every 6 months or so to prevent people from skilling faster. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 241	Posted - 2015.10.21 21:01:00 - [64] - Quote Ghost - SP wasn't reset after beta. Everyone coming in from open were behind. The flood of players coming in after beta made up the majority of the playerbase. Yes there were still some beta vets with their SP intact but they were the exception. Compare that population to the population a new player faces today. Which one do you think has the highest SP differential? You know that amazing 750k SP cap? Used to be smaller as well. 400k IIRC. What new player is going to be able to accumulate 750K SP a week in their first few weeks of playing? How many WPs is that? How many WPs can new players be reasonably expected to earn per match? All the raising of the SP cap did was gave the vets that are earning the very high WPs/match even more SP. I'd doubt very much if any new players today are hitting the old SP cap, let alone the new one. TAR and Laser rifles were more broken than anything that used to be in the game. Laser Rifle squads used to be called "The Fingers of Death". OK I don't see how that impacts new players specifically. If a gun is broken it's broken for everyone? I guess you could argue that the new players couldn't use it? What's worse, an OP weapon that only requires lvl 1 to use or a whole range of OP weapons that require Proficiency to use? Death taxies existed. LAV's that were almost impossible to kill and could kill you if they barely even TOUCHED YOU. You would have matches with one or two of these people driving around playing bumper cars with infantry. Again, doesn't really impact new players specifically. BPO's were nowhere near as proliferate. That is a fair point. APEX suits are a godsend to new players that can afford them. Compared to what we had in the past, you guys are so much more blessed. I can see why you'd mistake me for a new player because I tend to defend them a fair bit, but I was here for the closed beta. Lets not forget to mention free clone packs for PC so long as you're active. The fact you are raising PC mechanics as an advantage for new players baffles me. I don't even know what to say. New players don't PC? Now look at the advantages vets have over new players today: + damage from the warbarge Two whole new tiers of more powerful weapons Two new vet-exclusive sources of ISK that puts them well above the earning potential of pubs alone Most importantly, a playerbase that is more skewed towards high SP high ISK players than it has ever been. Something is killing new player retention.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.21 21:53:00 - [65] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: You kill the supply of an item, you kill the trade of that item. Actually, no. you won't. As rarity increases, the price and value of the item follows suit. there will always be a market for officer gear by people who are willing to pay for it, and there have always been players willing to pay for it. Experimental weapons are being retained, maintaining a level slightly above proto without falling into the Officer realm of "deliberately overpowered." Trade them. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.10.21 23:16:00 - [66] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: You kill the supply of an item, you kill the trade of that item. Actually, no. you won't. As rarity increases, the price and value of the item follows suit. there will always be a market for officer gear by people who are willing to pay for it, and there have always been players willing to pay for it. Experimental weapons are being retained, maintaining a level slightly above proto without falling into the Officer realm of "deliberately overpowered." Trade them. Yes you will. Rarity is not increasing because of natural market forces, rarity is increasing by killing the supply without doing anything to change the existing stockpiles. It like if all the worlds gold ceased to be sold tomorrow and you told me, dont worry there is still silver. Investors with stockpiles of gold make a killing off of it, and a market saturated in silver makes silver worthless. Your idea of the officer fix for trade makes that trade market ominated by the few who can afford to stockpile them and financially lock out the majority of the player base who can't. You are still skirting around the issue of "officer gear is still plentiful in the hands of a few players so lets make it rare for everyone else but them." Breaking why not go the full monty and make it rare for eveyone and reimburse players in ISK? If you want to make officer gear rare then MAKE IT RARE. Otherwise if you're saying "we should make it rare to produce but players should keep thier massive stockpiles to stomp with," then you whole idea of finding balance is flawed. I.e "too much officer in pubs, Breaking should stop generating officer but tesfa should keep 1,000 officer items" just hands all financial and stomping incentive to me. It like saying no proro shall be used in pubs except for every one who has level 5 already. Everybody else, is meta locked. I repeat, sieze everything to make it fair. Don't take B.S. half measures to pretend to do so. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2015.10.22 09:59:00 - [67] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. I can I burst their bubble on that one? It flipping well isn't! CPM 1&2 Member CEO of DUST University
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.22 18:52:00 - [68] - Quote Tesfa, there is a vast gulf of difference between killing officer trade marketts and killing individual players' ability to trade lots of officer items. New Eden operates on a loss economy. Period. Destruction creates rarity. Hoarding creates rarity. Just because the easy source of isk faucet has been fixed does not mean that the trade thereof is dead. And your demand to remove all of the items people paid their ISK for is hilarious. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.22 19:24:00 - [69] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. I can I burst their bubble on that one? It flipping well isn't! I'm with Kevall on this one. Chromosome was the best time ever to be a newbro. Warlords is the worst time ever to be a newbro. What's changed? The present TTK gap between vets and noobs is more to blame -- in my opinion -- than the wealth gap, the experience gap, bad Scotty, stompsquads, or even officer weapons. There has always been learning curves, stompsquads, lopsided matches, and wealth/experience disparity. What's changed is the likelihood that a newbro who outplays a vet will win. The odds have shifted -- almost entirely on account of power creep -- to favor the outplayed vet. Dropsuit Usage Rates
DiablosMajora 341	Posted - 2015.10.22 20:51:00 - [70] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: You kill the supply of an item, you kill the trade of that item. Actually, no. you won't. As rarity increases, the price and value of the item follows suit. there will always be a market for officer gear by people who are willing to pay for it, and there have always been players willing to pay for it. Experimental weapons are being retained, maintaining a level slightly above proto without falling into the Officer realm of "deliberately overpowered." Trade them. Yes you will. Rarity is not increasing because of natural market forces, rarity is increasing by killing the supply without doing anything to change the existing stockpiles. It like if all the worlds gold ceased to be sold tomorrow and you told me, dont worry there is still silver. Investors with stockpiles of gold make a killing off of it, and a market saturated in silver makes silver worthless. Your idea of the officer fix for trade makes that trade market ominated by the few who can afford to stockpile them and financially lock out the majority of the player base who can't. You are still skirting around the issue of "officer gear is still plentiful in the hands of a few players so lets make it rare for everyone else but them." Breaking why not go the full monty and make it rare for eveyone and reimburse players in ISK? If you want to make officer gear rare then MAKE IT RARE. Otherwise if you're saying "we should make it rare to produce but players should keep thier massive stockpiles to stomp with," then you whole idea of finding balance is flawed. I.e "too much officer in pubs, Breaking should stop generating officer but tesfa should keep 1,000 officer items" just hands all financial and stomping incentive to me. It like saying no proto shall be used in pubs except for every one who has level 5 already. Everybody else, is meta locked. I repeat, sieze everything to make it fair. Don't take B.S. half measures to pretend to do so. please stop talking about economics and trade like you understand it, you really don't Prepare your angus

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.22 21:50:00 - [71] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: (snip) This is the biggest difference between Chromosome NPE and Warlords NPE. There's a few sides to this, but the NPE needs to be a much higher priority. I personally am of the opinion that new players need to not be used as filler for matches with people runnong 30-100 million SP Facwar? No sympathy. Planetary conquest? Even less sympathy. But pubs with new players do not need to be thrown up against me and my 1300 -1600 HP fatsuits or my obnoxious marathon running assault fits. Newbie tank drivers most assuredly do not need to be in a match with me stroking my IAFG AVpeen. I may be only "decent" as an overall infantry player but a buncha newbies in sicas, somas,G-1 and C-1 HAVs don't have a prayer because I'm actually lretty good at destroying vehicles. But in any case we are deeply off topic. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
GRIM GEAR 539	Posted - 2015.10.22 21:57:00 - [72] - Quote The old weekly skill point cap was just under 200k I can't remember exactly it was either 194k or 196k. Cup of tea anyone? I came here to mingle can you hear that jingle that would be me lingle.
Reallusion GrimSleeper Need Permission to Die LLC 147	Posted - 2015.10.22 22:28:00 - [73] - Quote The only fair way to remove all 'farmed' office weapons would be to track down every individual sale of those weapons and refund the amount that they were sold for. I know many of us are not going to stand for buying a bunch of weapons for 400k each just to turn around and have them wiped out and replaced with 1/6th of what we paid for them. That's B.S. click here for a FREE Staff Recruit Assault Rifle BPO + BOOSTER
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.22 22:41:00 - [74] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: (snip) This is the biggest difference between Chromosome NPE and Warlords NPE. There's a few sides to this, but the NPE needs to be a much higher priority. I personally am of the opinion that new players need to not be used as filler for matches with people runnong 30-100 million SP Facwar? No sympathy. Planetary conquest? Even less sympathy. But pubs with new players do not need to be thrown up against me and my 1300 -1600 HP fatsuits or my obnoxious marathon running assault fits. Newbie tank drivers most assuredly do not need to be in a match with me stroking my IAFG AVpeen. I may be only "decent" as an overall infantry player but a buncha newbies in sicas, somas,G-1 and C-1 HAVs don't have a prayer because I'm actually lretty good at destroying vehicles. But in any case we are deeply off topic. I guess you guys could find a way to better separate the playerbase. But if you reigned in power creep, you probably wouldn't have to. As a noob in Chromosome, I never minded going up against the best of the best. If you singled them out and caught them from behind, you had a decent chance of taking 'em out (no matter how crappy your gear or how much more HP they had than you). It was an entirely different experience from today's NPE. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.23 00:15:00 - [75] - Quote Chromosome ttk was also maddeningly short and the duvolle reigned supreme. I don't remember chromosome as any period of greater fairness except in the case of AV/V interactions with the sole exception of the Surya. Newbs facing proto was just as violently one sided as it is today. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.23 01:28:00 - [76] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 1. Chromosome ttk was also maddeningly short and 2. the duvolle reigned supreme. I don't remember chromosome as any period of greater fairness except in the case of AV/V interactions with the sole exception of the Surya. 3. Newbs facing proto was just as violently one sided as it is today. 1. Chromosome TTK was shorter which, in my experience, served to equalize the playing field. Vet outplays or outsmarts newbro; newbro dies a violent death. Newbro outplays or outsmarts vet; vet dies a violent death. 2. Sure, the Chromosome AR was good, but it didn't "reign supreme"; that came later in Uprising. Think back to the fish bowl and the Chromosome Laser Rifle; the weapon dominated ranged engagements with its insta-melt death touch. And who can forget the kickball clunk of the Chromosome Shotgun? As I recall, these, HMGs and Locus Grenades reigned in close quarters. ARs -- like everything else -- killed more quickly in Chromosome, but no one weapon dominated the killfeed like we'd observe later in Uprising. 3. That wasn't my experience at all. If it had been, I wouldn't have stuck around. Not calling you a liar; it is very possible that we were running different things and had different experiences. About a week and a half into my DUST career, I lured a merc named "Zar Du'Kar" (or something like that) around rough terrain and promptly ended his pursuit with a short-range shotgun blast to the dome. I didn't top the leaderboards or anything that match (think I went 7/8), but the lure apparently impressed the merc, who turned out to be a vet in a competitive corp. He sent a very polite good game mail and asked if I was LFC. I read everything I could find on the web about "Pro Hic Immortalis" and that was it; I was hooked on DUST and have been ever since. Fast forward to today. I can't tell you the last time I sent a newbro a good game mail; most newbros I come across tend to hang back out of harm's way; and for good reason. The newbros who push get slaughtered. TL;DR: If newbros are going to run with vets, they deserve the mechanics and tools necessary to actually stand a chance against those vets; the only way (I can think of) to get back to more level playingfield is by narrowing the TTK gap. If, on the otherhand, newbros are going to be separated from vets, then so be it. I do wish it could be different though. Recruitment, new player retention rates, queue times, social aspects, training, mentor/apprentice relationships, etc. All of these stand to suffer. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 296	Posted - 2015.10.23 01:33:00 - [77] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: The funniest thing is that there are vets around today that actually believe it's easier to be a new player now than it has ever been. As though somehow the playerbase could have been slanted towards veteran players even more than it is now. I can I burst their bubble on that one? It flipping well isn't! Lower weekly cap, no missions, no apex suits. Vehicles in ambush, no vehicle cap. Please tell me again how much easier it was to be a new player before. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 288	Posted - 2015.10.23 02:00:00 - [78] - Quote We just disagree on the impact that a vet-stacked playerbase has on a newbro. The SP cap, well I'm not sure how many newbros are even earning enough WPs to take advantage of that. And yeah, APEX is nice for them (as I already said ) but there's been plenty of other things brought in that tip the balance in favour of vets such as two whole new tiers of high SP weapons and a longer-than-ever TTK. Missions have, in the scheme of things, pretty small rewards. The ones that do have OK rewards are pretty unrealistic for a newbro to achieve. The biggest thing I think is the composition of the playerbase. The majority of the people left playing have been Dust'ing for a looooong time. While we had a fair chance of facing a bunch of other noobs back in the day, it's statistically very unlikely now. That makes the learning experience very difficult, they're gonna get wrecked when the make the wrong move and they're gonna get wrecked when they make the right move. e. sorry to continue the derail Something is killing new player retention.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 17	Posted - 2015.10.23 02:54:00 - [79] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: ... and they're gonna get wrecked when they make the right move. This is something I think we can and should improve upon. If newbros and protobears are to play together, newbros should have the tools needed to kill protobears and should be amply rewarded when they manage to do so. Dropsuit Tiericide, normalized weapon profiles, and buffing locus grenade damage were three steps in the right direction. Removing permascan from play, improving upon pub pay and narrowing the TTK gap would be three more. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.23 03:02:00 - [80] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: ... and they're gonna get wrecked when they make the right move. This is something I think we can and should improve upon. If newbros and protobears are to play together, newbros should have the tools needed to kill protobears and should be amply rewarded when they manage to do so. I think newbears and protobears SHOULD play together. But by choice rather than simply being dropped into the shark tank. New players who squad with vets should absolutely be run in the vets' normal game mode. But random fresh-faced newbie should not be randomly dropped into a match with you and me. I know I sure as sh*t don't look at the target data to see if my opponent is rocking militia crap or proto gear. I just freaking blast them and move on. In an environment like that, I should be fighting guys like you and Tesfa as a first choice. the only reason a new player should be in my gunsights is if the ballsy little bastard joined a squad with someone like you and was enjoying the coordination and protection of a good squad. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.



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