Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mina Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 02:48:00 -
[121] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Mina, to me, is one of those crazy "anti team green" tinfoilers who thinks that because a person has a Gallente forum avatar they're somehow aligned to making Gallente OP and bringing everyone else down and that is all he will see regardless of rhyme, reason, or evidence. It's incredible how of all the races that get brought up for debate on the forums, Gallente are the only ones that are ever bias...
I stopped dealing with him [Mina] a while back because as much as I tried to read between the lines of what he was trying to say it always came off as the same thing: He's right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, hell, even when it comes to opinions and intuition he's still trying to contradict people and tell them that they're somehow erroneous.
Suppose we'll just have to wait for this aforementioned evidence.
EDIT: But, yanno, it'll probably be the same thing it always is when someone claims bias: Cherry picked posts from months/years ago that extrapolate only a certain outlook while ignoring any other factor or variable that would conflict with that evidence...
Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. I couldn't quite do your bullshit justice while I was on mobile for most of the day.
I am not 'anti-gallente' in any way, I actually try to keep balance in mind for any and all of my suggestions. However when balance problems come up for gallente weapons, quite a few members of 'team green' have either insisted nothing is wrong, or have insisted that [thing] being overpowered is totally okay. I tend to pay more attention to 'team green' because of my own leanings but that doesn't mean that no one else has ever been biased on the forums ever, or that I've never taken exception to them being idiots about it. As a brief example... I'm pretty sure that you think absolutely nothing is wrong with myo stacked fits... despite the fact that they are demonstrably missing a stacking penalty on their jump speed... and I'm sure that something that's so clearly broken wouldn't be abused by you at all, Oh wait, you run myo stacked fits all the time and are literally exploiting something that is broken and not working properly.
You stopped 'dealing' with me because I tend to point out when you act like a child, find fundamental flaws with your ideas and ask you questions that you find uncomfortable about those flaws, or I openly and aggressively contradict your whiny self-aggrandizing little crap (usually "waah i'm such a victim" crap). I don't really expect someone who acts like a child so often to be capable of 'dealing' with someone who usually acts like an adult.
I'm entirely willing to admit when I'm wrong Aeon... provided I'm actually wrong, and usually I am not. I will admit that I am stubborn individual and I love a good argument, I pride myself on having a decently wide range of knowledge about a lot of subjects and when I approach a discussion I tend to approach it armed with facts, evidence, knowledge and well reasoned arguments... To you this may come off as an "I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going to be condescending about it", and it probably on some level is because generally when I get into these 'discussions' I am right and the other person is wrong, demonstrably so.
About your 'opinions and intuition', those can certainly be wrong as the brain likes to do these fun little things called logical fallacies, or people like to make kneejerk 'judgements' based on incorrect or incomplete information. There is a world of difference between opinion (which is fallible) and informed opinion (which is supported by facts, evidence and well reasoned arguments). Christ they teach this **** in ****ING ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, are you honestly telling me that you are incapable of more intelligent and developed reasoning than CHILDREN aeon? These are basic critical thinking skills that move people away from making judgements predicated on unsubstantiated opinions and sentiments. Critical thought is how we come to and find TRUTHS.
Intuition is not a truth - it is a rush of thoughts and feelings, it can be a source of a truth that is later confirmed by rigorous examination, but it is not a truth itself. The same is true of opinion.
I know its horrifying sorcery to suggest this, but there are things in this universe that can be known, and it is possible to demonstrate them, because they are known.
Maybe I should differentiate 'opinion' and 'informed opinion' the way professors do... with the terms 'opinion' and 'informed understanding', because that better represents the difference between the two.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 03:40:00 -
[122] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin is correct in that typically my issue with his designs are "Well it seems to check out mathematically, but we really need to to test it in the field to see how it plays and feels" and Breakin usually responds with "***** please my numbers are 1337 as ****" and I nod approvingly and insist we still need to test it in game, and he nods approvingly, and then we shake our fists at a lack of a proper testing environment.
I mean here's the deal for me. Numbers are great, I love working with them because they're very good at getting you close to the right answer. Unfortunately they really suck at fine tuning, simply because it is impossible to quantify every aspect of gameplay. So while you can get close to the right answer with a spreadsheet, you need to test that data in game and then make minor adjustments accordingly based on how it feels and performs.
What I don't react well to is feedback that calls for drastic changes and is based entirely off of how something feels. As an extreme example, players like spkr4thedead would try to argue "Tanks are underpowered, buff base hp to 12,000 so they're at least viable." Which doesn't even make sense.
I'm short, its fine to base minor changes off of how something feels and performs in the field. But for drastic changes, I'm always going to go the numbers first because they are more reliable in that particular application.
A primary example of what I was referring to, and why I prioritize the "feel" of something, is Myrofibrils. If you remember we argued to death about this on Skype. If memory serves you said that it broke immersion and supported your arguments through the numbers and I even supported your arguments that they were, in fact, broken, through that one youtube video and accompanying thread showing the trigonometry of the jump height and the gains therein.
Run-on sentences aside, if you remember, I made it very well known that while I thought 4 and 5 Myros were completely and rambunctiously excessive (which they were) I felt that 3 was the butterzone. It added tactical viability through mobility, allowed more plentiful strategic options, and invalidated a lot of really stupid tactics (high ground camping). If you remember, I was also very, VERY adamant about retaining this aspect of gameplay and am still a strong supporter of it.
The "feel" of being a super soldier goes beyond just slight changes in numbers on a spreadsheet. Shield Extenders and Armor Plates are fundamentally the same exact thing: Varying increases in HP. While those offer a slightly different experience (whether you live or die) doesn't add up to the feeling of leaping onto a cargo container and getting the drop on an un-prepared enemy.
If it's one thing I've always stood by it is that Dust 514 needs more sci-fi and less modern shooter. And though I admittedly got pretty heated when I felt you were backing me into a corner in that argument on Myros, I feel as though we reached a pretty decent solution in that you can only fit three myros on a suit now. I'm happy that resolution played out like it did.... but it could have been much worse.
Just providing an example of what I'm talking about. The "feel" of the game isn't just minor variations on a spreadsheet, it is the core design of the game. We are super soldiers. We should feel like super soldiers.
Volunteer For The PSD!
Design A SKIN 2
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 06:29:00 -
[123] - Quote
Well that's not really an example of me not taking the feedback of someone's 'feel' because I'm focused on numerical data. In the example you're referring to, we were simply disagreeing on your qualitative opinion of myofibs vs my qualitative opinion on myofibs.
I'm not exactly sure how you thought I was supporting my position with numbers other that "I don't think people should be able to jump 30 feet in the air on a whim".
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 08:46:00 -
[124] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Well that's not really an example of me not taking the feedback of someone's 'feel' because I'm focused on numerical data. In the example you're referring to, we were simply disagreeing on your qualitative opinion of myofibs vs my qualitative opinion on myofibs.
I'm not exactly sure how you thought I was supporting my position with numbers other that "I don't think people should be able to jump 30 feet in the air on a whim".
Kay.
Volunteer For The PSD!
Design A SKIN 2
|
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
819
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 09:04:00 -
[125] - Quote
D1CK what have you done...
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) No.
|
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
819
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 09:05:00 -
[126] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Mina, to me, is one of those crazy "anti team green" tinfoilers who thinks that because a person has a Gallente forum avatar they're somehow aligned to making Gallente OP and bringing everyone else down and that is all he will see regardless of rhyme, reason, or evidence. It's incredible how of all the races that get brought up for debate on the forums, Gallente are the only ones that are ever bias...
I stopped dealing with him [Mina] a while back because as much as I tried to read between the lines of what he was trying to say it always came off as the same thing: He's right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, hell, even when it comes to opinions and intuition he's still trying to contradict people and tell them that they're somehow erroneous.
Suppose we'll just have to wait for this aforementioned evidence.
EDIT: But, yanno, it'll probably be the same thing it always is when someone claims bias: Cherry picked posts from months/years ago that extrapolate only a certain outlook while ignoring any other factor or variable that would conflict with that evidence... Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. I couldn't quite do your bullshit justice while I was on mobile for most of the day. I am not 'anti-gallente' in any way, I actually try to keep balance in mind for any and all of my suggestions. However when balance problems come up for gallente weapons, quite a few members of 'team green' have either insisted nothing is wrong, or have insisted that [thing] being overpowered is totally okay. I tend to pay more attention to 'team green' because of my own leanings but that doesn't mean that no one else has ever been biased on the forums ever, or that I've never taken exception to them being idiots about it. As a brief example... I'm pretty sure that you think absolutely nothing is wrong with myo stacked fits... despite the fact that they are demonstrably missing a stacking penalty on their jump speed... and I'm sure that something that's so clearly broken wouldn't be abused by you at all, Oh wait, you run myo stacked fits all the time and are literally exploiting something that is broken and not working properly. You stopped 'dealing' with me because I tend to point out when you act like a child, find fundamental flaws with your ideas and ask you questions that you find uncomfortable about those flaws, or I openly and aggressively contradict your whiny self-aggrandizing little crap (usually "waah i'm such a victim" crap). I don't really expect someone who acts like a child so often to be capable of 'dealing' with someone who usually acts like an adult. I'm entirely willing to admit when I'm wrong Aeon... provided I'm actually wrong, and usually I am not. I will admit that I am stubborn individual and I love a good argument, I pride myself on having a decently wide range of knowledge about a lot of subjects and when I approach a discussion I tend to approach it armed with facts, evidence, knowledge and well reasoned arguments... To you this may come off as an "I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going to be condescending about it", and it probably on some level is because generally when I get into these 'discussions' I am right and the other person is wrong, demonstrably so. About your 'opinions and intuition', those can certainly be wrong as the brain likes to do these fun little things called logical fallacies, or people like to make kneejerk 'judgements' based on incorrect or incomplete information. There is a world of difference between opinion (which is fallible) and informed opinion (which is supported by facts, evidence and well reasoned arguments). Christ they teach this **** in ****ING ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, are you honestly telling me that you are incapable of more intelligent and developed reasoning than CHILDREN aeon? These are basic critical thinking skills that move people away from making judgements predicated on unsubstantiated opinions and sentiments. Critical thought is how we come to and find TRUTHS. Intuition is not a truth - it is a rush of thoughts and feelings, it can be a source of a truth that is later confirmed by rigorous examination, but it is not a truth itself. The same is true of opinion. I know its horrifying sorcery to suggest this, but there are things in this universe that can be known, and it is possible to demonstrate them, because they are known. Maybe I should differentiate 'opinion' and 'informed opinion' the way professors do... with the terms 'opinion' and 'informed understanding', because that better represents the difference between the two. Didn't that whole team green thing happen 1 month ago?
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) No.
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 09:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Mina, to me, is one of those crazy "anti team green" tinfoilers who thinks that because a person has a Gallente forum avatar they're somehow aligned to making Gallente OP and bringing everyone else down and that is all he will see regardless of rhyme, reason, or evidence. It's incredible how of all the races that get brought up for debate on the forums, Gallente are the only ones that are ever bias...
I stopped dealing with him [Mina] a while back because as much as I tried to read between the lines of what he was trying to say it always came off as the same thing: He's right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, hell, even when it comes to opinions and intuition he's still trying to contradict people and tell them that they're somehow erroneous.
Suppose we'll just have to wait for this aforementioned evidence.
EDIT: But, yanno, it'll probably be the same thing it always is when someone claims bias: Cherry picked posts from months/years ago that extrapolate only a certain outlook while ignoring any other factor or variable that would conflict with that evidence... Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. I couldn't quite do your bullshit justice while I was on mobile for most of the day. I am not 'anti-gallente' in any way, I actually try to keep balance in mind for any and all of my suggestions. However when balance problems come up for gallente weapons, quite a few members of 'team green' have either insisted nothing is wrong, or have insisted that [thing] being overpowered is totally okay. I tend to pay more attention to 'team green' because of my own leanings but that doesn't mean that no one else has ever been biased on the forums ever, or that I've never taken exception to them being idiots about it. As a brief example... I'm pretty sure that you think absolutely nothing is wrong with myo stacked fits... despite the fact that they are demonstrably missing a stacking penalty on their jump speed... and I'm sure that something that's so clearly broken wouldn't be abused by you at all, Oh wait, you run myo stacked fits all the time and are literally exploiting something that is broken and not working properly. You stopped 'dealing' with me because I tend to point out when you act like a child, find fundamental flaws with your ideas and ask you questions that you find uncomfortable about those flaws, or I openly and aggressively contradict your whiny self-aggrandizing little crap (usually "waah i'm such a victim" crap). I don't really expect someone who acts like a child so often to be capable of 'dealing' with someone who usually acts like an adult. I'm entirely willing to admit when I'm wrong Aeon... provided I'm actually wrong, and usually I am not. I will admit that I am stubborn individual and I love a good argument, I pride myself on having a decently wide range of knowledge about a lot of subjects and when I approach a discussion I tend to approach it armed with facts, evidence, knowledge and well reasoned arguments... To you this may come off as an "I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going to be condescending about it", and it probably on some level is because generally when I get into these 'discussions' I am right and the other person is wrong, demonstrably so. About your 'opinions and intuition', those can certainly be wrong as the brain likes to do these fun little things called logical fallacies, or people like to make kneejerk 'judgements' based on incorrect or incomplete information. There is a world of difference between opinion (which is fallible) and informed opinion (which is supported by facts, evidence and well reasoned arguments). Christ they teach this **** in ****ING ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, are you honestly telling me that you are incapable of more intelligent and developed reasoning than CHILDREN aeon? These are basic critical thinking skills that move people away from making judgements predicated on unsubstantiated opinions and sentiments. Critical thought is how we come to and find TRUTHS. Intuition is not a truth - it is a rush of thoughts and feelings, it can be a source of a truth that is later confirmed by rigorous examination, but it is not a truth itself. The same is true of opinion. I know its horrifying sorcery to suggest this, but there are things in this universe that can be known, and it is possible to demonstrate them, because they are known. Maybe I should differentiate 'opinion' and 'informed opinion' the way professors do... with the terms 'opinion' and 'informed understanding', because that better represents the difference between the two. Didn't that whole team green thing happen 1 month ago?
Wow. That is one massive wall of text. It really is a shame that the forums don't hide quotes as well.
S'why I hid his posts in the first place, lol, "nyuuurrrr you're a child blaaargghhhh I'm completely and totally reasonable"
Volunteer For The PSD!
Design A SKIN 2
|
TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 11:14:00 -
[128] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:D1CK what have you done...
Meh, at least these guys make it obvious why most players don't use the forum
Aeon... Mina says yo momma looks good working fo dat Caldari dolla Mina... Aeon says you momma likes it froggy style...
FIGHT!!!
Trainwreck forum posting prof.5
Sorry I am too busy to come to the phone right now, I am actually playing the game.
|
TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 11:16:00 -
[129] - Quote
Let's not turn this into fantasy racism514, both of you, go outside and touch a boob immediatly
Trainwreck forum posting prof.5
Sorry I am too busy to come to the phone right now, I am actually playing the game.
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 11:19:00 -
[130] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Let's not turn this into fantasy racism514, both of you, go outside and touch a boob immediatly
I really don't care either way. I fight for any faction that my squad decides to throw us into at the time, so it really is of no concern to me.
Not to mention I have:
Amarr Logistics/Scout 5 Caldari Assault/Logistics 5 Gallente Assault/Logistics 5 Minmatar Assault/Logistics/Commando 5
I'm pretty diverse, yo.
Volunteer For The PSD!
Design A SKIN 2
|
|
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
824
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 16:54:00 -
[131] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote: go outside and touch a boob immediatly Tried to look up a GIF for this.... never again....
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) No.
|
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 18:49:00 -
[132] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Let's not turn this into fantasy racism514, both of you, go outside and touch a boob immediatly
Nah, I just have a hard time letting things rest when I'm I believe I'm in the right. I prefer to argue the point. That said I'll let it drop.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |