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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.18 07:42:00 -
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While I agree that the community needs to make the content in Dust 514, the only way that can happen is if CCP provides the tools with which that content is made. They've done a good job but we're incredibly limited, despite all that Dust 514 is.
We need to get our foot in the door and have more to work with, honestly. There's a lot of candidates out there that make these epic promises but all of it just seems so self important, honestly... Like, virtually every veteran I can think of off the top of my head is running this year and I'm either so jaded that I'm just seeing a big cloud of all the same things or they really are running for all the same things. I dunno. /shrug
I'd rather the community have more opportunities to represent themselves than have these crazy elections where a handful of people toss their hat in and hope for the best. I think we should work toward that.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.18 08:35:00 -
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IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:My voting list so far: Pokey DravonCross Atu Zaria Min Deir BreakinGÇÖ Stuff Kevall will probably be on there somewhere. I voted for him last time. I donGÇÖt know Talos, so will have to look out for some of his posts. Of course I am not sure who is all running yet. Yes there is still uncertainty about who will run, but the ones working hardest for it are noticable. I updated OP to set Pokey as a solid candidate, I think most of Dust will be hoping he can be the critic that can beat some sense into CCP  A lot of mercs thinking about CPM voting will browse this so feedback from candidates is very welcome I like to think that Rattati and I both react well to a very analytical approach on topics. He's always been very responsive to my discussions with him because I approach things in a very factual manner. So when he comes up with an idea that just doesn't make sense, and I explain to him why it doesn't make sense, he's been very willing to change his position on the topic. What he doesn't respond to well is emotionally driven rants and demands, which is something I always try to avoid in my conversations. :: seeding a thought :: I feel he can focus too much on numbers though...maybe he does look at other stuff too, but I think too much weight is placed on numbers. This is why having more heads involved is always a good idea to get all angles. Anecdotal and observational evidence has its place as does realising that balance is not necessarily achieved with perfect symmetry
It's important to remember that CCP Rattati is an Engineer, so he's -going- to focus on the numbers first. 
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.18 10:12:00 -
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Mina Longstrike wrote:I think including Kirk and mclovin honestly turns it into a popularity contest.
Being perfectly honest I don't have too many problems with Kirk, but he's biased, argumentative, doesn't look all that hard at facts or really concern himself with trying to get to the bottom of things and a whole slew of other negatives... And honestly I don't think I've really seen him do much of any positive contributions to the game (not saying that he hasn't, just that I've never seen him put forth any real effort). Quite a few of these are dealbreakers next to candidates like pokey or cross. Amusingly a decent chunk of these are reasons I myself wouldn't run over or ever vote for myself because of.
Mclovin is someone I only know through FW interactions... And honestly he's a troll, and a bad one at that. When he gets himself kickbanned for constant awoxing & friendly fire he or his friends from OH come to run his mouth in STF, usually on alts. He is singlehandedly (slight exaggeration, his friends 'contribute' too) the reason that Outer Heaven as a corp has almost been removed from state task force. Now add in a lot of the things that I've said about Kirk that probably apply as Mclovin is essentially an unknown and ask yourself do you *really* want someone who behaves in such negative ways so frequently to be a representative of the community? I'd rather have an upstanding, levelheaded, fact oriented person representing me.
I want candidates who are willing to get to the bottom of things and either be knowledgeable, or be willing to communicate with people who are knowledgeable. I'm not interested in biased egomaniacs (eg Viktor Hadah) or trolls (eg spkr4thedead).
Kirk is an FW guy and pretty much -is- Lucent Echelon. I think we'd all really appreciate it if you would provide evidence of his bias instead of simply claiming that he is. Same thing with Viktor. I don't even like Viktor but I don't feel he's bias, so please provide support for your arguments.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.18 10:39:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:It's very simple:
It's not a matter of "do I like these people."
It is a matter of "Do I think these people will genuinely push progress to improve the game, spot break points, address exploits and endorse ideas that can improve the quality of the game?"
I'll be the first to admit. Some of my more fond ideas are ones I culled from other people. Most of them are from over a year ago, so I cannot remember WHO was the original poster.
One of the ideas I can confirm came from a person who I wouldn't **** on to put a fire out. Doesn't mean that person didn't have anything good to contribute.
Look at the people running. Look at the legwork they do.
Do they contribute? If yes, vote for them.
WILL they contribute? If yes, vote for them.
Do you feel someone else will do a better job? Then vote for that guy.
I'm a very results-driven individual. I don't give a rat's ass if I like you if what you say has a provable foundation. I value function over form, balance and parity, and because it's a game, the focus should be on making it more enjoyable to play at every turn.
If I'm not elected, cross and pokey are at the top of my list because cross has proven that he can get things running, and I work well with pokey because he provides excellent input.
He also doesn't agree with me unless he feels my data justifies it.
The odds of either playing "yes man" rapidly approach zero once you start poking at how they do things.
I feel Pokey is -too- data driven and doesn't accept input on how something feels. Pokey is, in my mind, a chess master. He'll know all the moves, he'll know all the strategies, and all the inner workings but in the end chess is a dead-end game because there are only so many set strategies and even modern chess masters struggle to find new ways to go about the game. That's a factor of something being -too- balanced and data driven.
Games need to have some level of perfect imbalance and be driven by counters rather than hardcore numbers or they become stale. Don't get me wrong, Pokey is a great guy when it comes to the nitty-gritty of those hard to balance number games, but his stubbornness in that field makes him difficult to work with as far as conceptualization and design - the feel of something as opposed to the mechanics of it.
S'for that reason I feel my vote is better placed elsewhere, honestly.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.18 12:45:00 -
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TheD1CK wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:You would be incorrect. I am actually more data-driven. I am merely better at putting it into context for other people. Pokeys points of contention with me have nothing to do with data points. They have to do with practical application functionality and ease-of-use as well as personal aggravation factor. I firmly believe that you have misjudged him. I'd agree with this, it's why you'll likely get voted for without even trying to gain any votes, I think Breakin is the rare-gem that will look at things both factual and from anecdotal experience, along with being able to post feedback that all gamers will relate to A lot of us don't come here to debate, which happens way to often rather than just discussions being open, at least with Breakin Stuff he will just flat out tell you your wrong, take your logic and beat some sense into you with it
Opinions about people are never wrong, sorry to break your heart. I'm not 'wrong' because of the way I feel about someone. Maybe I misjudged him, maybe I misunderstand him, maybe I misinterpret him - doesn't make the feeling I get from the guy 'wrong'.
But, that's the core of my issue with Pokey, isn't it..?
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.18 12:59:00 -
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IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:
I like to think that Rattati and I both react well to a very analytical approach on topics. He's always been very responsive to my discussions with him because I approach things in a very factual manner. So when he comes up with an idea that just doesn't make sense, and I explain to him why it doesn't make sense, he's been very willing to change his position on the topic.
What he doesn't respond to well is emotionally driven rants and demands, which is something I always try to avoid in my conversations.
:: seeding a thought :: I feel he can focus too much on numbers though...maybe he does look at other stuff too, but I think too much weight is placed on numbers. This is why having more heads involved is always a good idea to get all angles. Anecdotal and observational evidence has its place as does realising that balance is not necessarily achieved with perfect symmetry It's important to remember that CCP Rattati is an Engineer, so he's -going- to focus on the numbers first. Exactly why I mentioned it - because putting like-minded alongside him (as in Pokey's example) misses the other aspects, as you and others have already pointed out in later posts re: how stuff *feels*. Instead of (or indeed as well as!) breaking down into small groups of like-minded and having isolated discussions, then rejoining to disagree with equivalent other groups, inclusive discussion involving all the types involved should achieve better results.
Couldn't agree more.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.18 19:12:00 -
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TheD1CK wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Aeon, kirks bias is pretty clear and if I wasn't on my phone I could go grab some of the stuff Nothi has documented. On a tangent, opinions about people *can* be wrong, they are based in feeling not fact. Opinions are by definition fallible as they're not facts - you're allowed to have your world view and dislike things for whatever reasons but that doesn't prevent it from being wrong. There is a big difference between an opinion and an informed opinion.
D1ck, being a good squadlead isn't something I'd consider all that important. Again, not trying to diminish or belittle him but if both Kirk and I were to run I'd vote for neither of us for mostly the same reasons, we'd probably be better than some, but not as good as many others.
For dealing with CCP no, but if CPM had more in-game activity that could be an asset, either way being a squad lead, what is the first requirement there?? Knowing the in's and out's of the game and managing players.. I think that could be of some use to CPM, and until you do post your stuff it does seem like you are trying to diminish and belittle him tbqh
Mina, to me, is one of those crazy "anti team green" tinfoilers who thinks that because a person has a Gallente forum avatar they're somehow aligned to making Gallente OP and bringing everyone else down and that is all he will see regardless of rhyme, reason, or evidence. It's incredible how of all the races that get brought up for debate on the forums, Gallente are the only ones that are ever bias...
I stopped dealing with him [Mina] a while back because as much as I tried to read between the lines of what he was trying to say it always came off as the same thing: He's right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, hell, even when it comes to opinions and intuition he's still trying to contradict people and tell them that they're somehow erroneous.
Suppose we'll just have to wait for this aforementioned evidence.
EDIT: But, yanno, it'll probably be the same thing it always is when someone claims bias: Cherry picked posts from months/years ago that extrapolate only a certain outlook while ignoring any other factor or variable that would conflict with that evidence...
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.19 03:40:00 -
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Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin is correct in that typically my issue with his designs are "Well it seems to check out mathematically, but we really need to to test it in the field to see how it plays and feels" and Breakin usually responds with "***** please my numbers are 1337 as ****" and I nod approvingly and insist we still need to test it in game, and he nods approvingly, and then we shake our fists at a lack of a proper testing environment.
I mean here's the deal for me. Numbers are great, I love working with them because they're very good at getting you close to the right answer. Unfortunately they really suck at fine tuning, simply because it is impossible to quantify every aspect of gameplay. So while you can get close to the right answer with a spreadsheet, you need to test that data in game and then make minor adjustments accordingly based on how it feels and performs.
What I don't react well to is feedback that calls for drastic changes and is based entirely off of how something feels. As an extreme example, players like spkr4thedead would try to argue "Tanks are underpowered, buff base hp to 12,000 so they're at least viable." Which doesn't even make sense.
I'm short, its fine to base minor changes off of how something feels and performs in the field. But for drastic changes, I'm always going to go the numbers first because they are more reliable in that particular application.
A primary example of what I was referring to, and why I prioritize the "feel" of something, is Myrofibrils. If you remember we argued to death about this on Skype. If memory serves you said that it broke immersion and supported your arguments through the numbers and I even supported your arguments that they were, in fact, broken, through that one youtube video and accompanying thread showing the trigonometry of the jump height and the gains therein.
Run-on sentences aside, if you remember, I made it very well known that while I thought 4 and 5 Myros were completely and rambunctiously excessive (which they were) I felt that 3 was the butterzone. It added tactical viability through mobility, allowed more plentiful strategic options, and invalidated a lot of really stupid tactics (high ground camping). If you remember, I was also very, VERY adamant about retaining this aspect of gameplay and am still a strong supporter of it.
The "feel" of being a super soldier goes beyond just slight changes in numbers on a spreadsheet. Shield Extenders and Armor Plates are fundamentally the same exact thing: Varying increases in HP. While those offer a slightly different experience (whether you live or die) doesn't add up to the feeling of leaping onto a cargo container and getting the drop on an un-prepared enemy.
If it's one thing I've always stood by it is that Dust 514 needs more sci-fi and less modern shooter. And though I admittedly got pretty heated when I felt you were backing me into a corner in that argument on Myros, I feel as though we reached a pretty decent solution in that you can only fit three myros on a suit now. I'm happy that resolution played out like it did.... but it could have been much worse.
Just providing an example of what I'm talking about. The "feel" of the game isn't just minor variations on a spreadsheet, it is the core design of the game. We are super soldiers. We should feel like super soldiers.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.19 08:46:00 -
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Pokey Dravon wrote:Well that's not really an example of me not taking the feedback of someone's 'feel' because I'm focused on numerical data. In the example you're referring to, we were simply disagreeing on your qualitative opinion of myofibs vs my qualitative opinion on myofibs.
I'm not exactly sure how you thought I was supporting my position with numbers other that "I don't think people should be able to jump 30 feet in the air on a whim".
Kay.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.19 09:12:00 -
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JARREL THOMAS wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Mina, to me, is one of those crazy "anti team green" tinfoilers who thinks that because a person has a Gallente forum avatar they're somehow aligned to making Gallente OP and bringing everyone else down and that is all he will see regardless of rhyme, reason, or evidence. It's incredible how of all the races that get brought up for debate on the forums, Gallente are the only ones that are ever bias...
I stopped dealing with him [Mina] a while back because as much as I tried to read between the lines of what he was trying to say it always came off as the same thing: He's right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, hell, even when it comes to opinions and intuition he's still trying to contradict people and tell them that they're somehow erroneous.
Suppose we'll just have to wait for this aforementioned evidence.
EDIT: But, yanno, it'll probably be the same thing it always is when someone claims bias: Cherry picked posts from months/years ago that extrapolate only a certain outlook while ignoring any other factor or variable that would conflict with that evidence... Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. I couldn't quite do your bullshit justice while I was on mobile for most of the day. I am not 'anti-gallente' in any way, I actually try to keep balance in mind for any and all of my suggestions. However when balance problems come up for gallente weapons, quite a few members of 'team green' have either insisted nothing is wrong, or have insisted that [thing] being overpowered is totally okay. I tend to pay more attention to 'team green' because of my own leanings but that doesn't mean that no one else has ever been biased on the forums ever, or that I've never taken exception to them being idiots about it. As a brief example... I'm pretty sure that you think absolutely nothing is wrong with myo stacked fits... despite the fact that they are demonstrably missing a stacking penalty on their jump speed... and I'm sure that something that's so clearly broken wouldn't be abused by you at all, Oh wait, you run myo stacked fits all the time and are literally exploiting something that is broken and not working properly. You stopped 'dealing' with me because I tend to point out when you act like a child, find fundamental flaws with your ideas and ask you questions that you find uncomfortable about those flaws, or I openly and aggressively contradict your whiny self-aggrandizing little crap (usually "waah i'm such a victim" crap). I don't really expect someone who acts like a child so often to be capable of 'dealing' with someone who usually acts like an adult. I'm entirely willing to admit when I'm wrong Aeon... provided I'm actually wrong, and usually I am not. I will admit that I am stubborn individual and I love a good argument, I pride myself on having a decently wide range of knowledge about a lot of subjects and when I approach a discussion I tend to approach it armed with facts, evidence, knowledge and well reasoned arguments... To you this may come off as an "I'm right and you're wrong and I'm going to be condescending about it", and it probably on some level is because generally when I get into these 'discussions' I am right and the other person is wrong, demonstrably so. About your 'opinions and intuition', those can certainly be wrong as the brain likes to do these fun little things called logical fallacies, or people like to make kneejerk 'judgements' based on incorrect or incomplete information. There is a world of difference between opinion (which is fallible) and informed opinion (which is supported by facts, evidence and well reasoned arguments). Christ they teach this **** in ****ING ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, are you honestly telling me that you are incapable of more intelligent and developed reasoning than CHILDREN aeon? These are basic critical thinking skills that move people away from making judgements predicated on unsubstantiated opinions and sentiments. Critical thought is how we come to and find TRUTHS. Intuition is not a truth - it is a rush of thoughts and feelings, it can be a source of a truth that is later confirmed by rigorous examination, but it is not a truth itself. The same is true of opinion. I know its horrifying sorcery to suggest this, but there are things in this universe that can be known, and it is possible to demonstrate them, because they are known. Maybe I should differentiate 'opinion' and 'informed opinion' the way professors do... with the terms 'opinion' and 'informed understanding', because that better represents the difference between the two. Didn't that whole team green thing happen 1 month ago?
Wow. That is one massive wall of text. It really is a shame that the forums don't hide quotes as well.
S'why I hid his posts in the first place, lol, "nyuuurrrr you're a child blaaargghhhh I'm completely and totally reasonable" 
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.19 11:19:00 -
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TheD1CK wrote:Let's not turn this into fantasy racism514, both of you, go outside and touch a boob immediatly
I really don't care either way. I fight for any faction that my squad decides to throw us into at the time, so it really is of no concern to me.
Not to mention I have:
Amarr Logistics/Scout 5
Caldari Assault/Logistics 5
Gallente Assault/Logistics 5
Minmatar Assault/Logistics/Commando 5
I'm pretty diverse, yo.
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