I honestly feel like it devalues the sense of progression when you move too quickly through it. You don't learn anything by immediately jumping to level 5 in a particular dropsuit, weapon, or skill and as previously stated we have a -multitude- of ways with which to earn SP. A brand new player who just installed the game, if dedicated enough, can earn 960,000 SP a week through normal gameplay without spending a time and that doesn't take into account daily missions.

This is one of those times I'm reminded of the concept of Skill Spikes back in Beta which would give a player a temporary application of SP in a certain skill. Those would be awesome because then a new player can try things out without having to commit to it if they don't like it and there isn't any reason with which to start handing out starter boosters in order for them to play around and find out what they want.

That's interesting considering closed beta didn't start until May, 2012 =P

It's a long run. Many new players likely hate waiting 1 week for a skill and quit after getting a good look at the skill tree and what they earn probably from being overwhelmed.

So they learn by getting raped by us?

I honestly feel like it devalues the sense of progression when you move too quickly through it. You don't learn anything by immediately jumping to level 5 in a particular dropsuit, weapon, or skill and as previously stated we have a -multitude- of ways with which to earn SP. A brand new player who just installed the game, if dedicated enough, can earn 960,000 SP a week through normal gameplay without spending a time and that doesn't take into account daily missions.

This is one of those times I'm reminded of the concept of Skill Spikes back in Beta which would give a player a temporary application of SP in a certain skill. Those would be awesome because then a new player can try things out without having to commit to it if they don't like it and there isn't any reason with which to start handing out starter boosters in order for them to play around and find out what they want.

They already get more SP by being on a different payout system than "vets"

They already get a free booster which is just advertising for CCP but hey it is still a freebie.

They are able to get boosters from missions which is a huge improvement from back in the day.


NPE needs lots of adjustments but pumping them more SP does not seem like it will help the overall problem. GEtting kicked out of the academy at a static WP value is a big issue. People coming into normal matches having never been in a squad, possibly not even having hacked an objective, and many other things that are possible just because they ran into a number is not good for anyone.

I have to disagree here. Reason? We should not pamper new players, they need to learn the game "the hard way" just like we did.

You are right that there are multiple factors contributing to the poor NPE.

But an average 50M SP gap (give or take) between noobs and vets is one of those factors.

Allowing noobs to put together one competitive fit a bit faster would help.

Especially when noobs are probably going to spec into a few wrong things along the way.

Which is why there needs to be a better fitting tutorial, and a free respec upon graduation from academy.

You did not learn the hard way genius. You Learned with people on a similar level if you have played very long. New guys now face 10 times the officer level opponents and proto suits you hade to endure. Even if you just started a year ago the number of 70+mill SP kits was less than a third it is now. Thinking before you speak some trolly BS would be nice. You were in easy mode kid, not hard mode. Start an alt right now and see what its like. then take into account you have actually played the game before. New guys need something.
Personally, I would just like a match making change where it actually balances teams in general not so there are a couple protosquads really fighting it out while the other guys are just there as scenery. Mixing chum with sharks is an idiotic idea, and a great way to show new players they aren't welcome here. Die 10 to 1 and tell me how long you want to play a game.

Considering that Daily Missions give SP, Warbarge Upgrades (however controversial or hard to get) give SP, the Weekly Active Cap was increased to 750k, we can now triple stack boosters, Instant SP Boosts are a thing, and everyone gets Aurum whenever they log in for the day...

No. I don't think that new players should earn a higher percentage of SP. There are plenty of ways with which a new player can gain a lot of SP in a hurry if they only utilize them and there is no justifiable reason why a new player should be able to catch up with a veteran in terms of lifetime SP because the Skills are capped at level 5. You cannot invest more SP than the maximum capacity for a skill, so a 3-year player with 75m SP will not be more powerful than a 1-month player with 5m SP, they will simply have more options and variety.

I already feel that SP is given out too freely.

What about other thingy.
Like take them under your arms?
I do not like idea about give them bigger chance, than i have when i start.
Take newbies to corp and show them the way.

New players already have a different system than vets that awards them SP. Where vets gain most of their SP through their WP, new players get most of their SP through time spent in battle. I think it's something like 5 SP per second spent in battle.

That's interesting considering closed beta didn't start until May, 2012 =P

Are there new players?

Again, read my above post. You started in easy mode. You were coddled by the age of the game. Start an alt, and see if you like going against the current mix of suits. Look at the server numbers and you will see this game is losing players, really stupid selfish attitudes like yours is half the reason why. You should want anything that gets new players on here. If not in 4 months you won't have enough guys to que a game every 20 minutes.

Are there new players?

A bunch of things.

this thread. wow. had a few beers so maybe I'm misreading but everything is anecdotal at best. So give them an SP boost. You gonna overlord every newbro and dictate what they drop it into? What's that OP, you already "carry" the newbie players so you can't be bothered to teach them more? How are they going to learn how to USE the SP without proper experience (active corp recruitment---i'm lookin' at you babycakes---, TRAINING, and *cough* PV-mutha-fuggin'-E)? Give them all the SP you like. Hell, give them 10m for academy graduation---as a nice lil' welcome aboard gesture. Where is it going to go? EVERYWHERE. "Holy sh!t, batman! I can try this, and that, and uh OMG wtf is this over here! GOT IT!1!1!11" And no one is going to have a decent advanced to proto level fit because it's all over the place. As if they'd be able to, or even know how to FIT it all, without the boring cores that most everyone would probably skip over because well, they don't have the experience to know better (see points above somewhere between the first and 5th sentence probably). Oh, and that those moaning like alley cats in heat to give them the boost aren't going to teach them.

Even if they do proto a suit/weapon, what then? Do they suddenly know fitting range? Do they know how to USE it? Do they even know how to read TACNET or watch for blurry blue scout goo smearing across the horizon? Nerp. They will still be instakilled, only now they lost a ton of quickly invested ISK that they don't have as newbies and are even MORE pissed because of it. Wait.... I got it! Boost ISK rewards for academy grads too. Now that I think about it maybe you're on to something! Give them more AUR dailies as well. Because once the gain curve drops steeply after 10m (or whatever arbitrary cap you wish to place upon it all), then those puffed-upnewbies are going to be upset because suddenly they're not earning nearly what they earned when they first started! And by some screwy gaming progression logic they might actually think they should be getting MORE as time goes by.

You're right though. Closed Beta Vets didn't have to face full proto-stomps with a deficit of 30+million SP to the enemy. But we also didn't have near the resources today to GET sp in the first place. I will agree that there is a problem. SP gaps are side-effects of larger problems. Without the in-game experience to effectively UNDERSTAND how SP works, or even how to apply it for long-term gains, newbieboosties won't change a damn thing. And that goes back to the point. Another bandaid pretending to be a solution to a problem that isn't the problem.

SIMPLE PVE (i.e., a personal firing range!?) can go a long way to prepping new players of the weapon choices at least. Reinforcing the fact that there are militia variants to use before speccing into chaos is a nifty thing too, if paired with some form of testing ground. But that doesn't exist. SP boosting isn't going to do anything other than giving them more selection of toys to play with while still getting their arses handed to them by skill-capped SQUADS.

Helpful replies have been made, but that "yup... sarcastic eye-roll" reply peppering the first page is so much easier than considering another view.

Yup. I swear, these forums sometimes....

the simple solution was to keep all the newberries in ACADEMY until they had ten million sp
academy newberries fighting academy newberries till ten million sp graduation

but did ccp listen?

hell no

ccp kept listening to ccp folks saying htfu, get gud and over and over the litany of well if folks do not like it then they can leave

many like me gave warning last year that the ps4 and a building ps4 game library was going to draw folks away from the ps3 and dust 514

the response of many was to naysay and to negate the falling playerbase numbers

well the chickens came home to roost and now its all about ps4 games for increasing numbers of players

You guys realize that the dynamic of DUST means that the new players get the short end of the stick? I mean, how are you gonna get new players when these guys are fighting 0.H on their first day. It just doesn't work. We need to give them a lot more SP so they keep playing and they keep wanting to play. Maybe give them 150% SP until 10 million SP or something, but honestly, at the rate this game is going, it's just us vets left. I have not met many new players in this game, and that's because there aren't many who stay past the first week. If we gave them some incentive to stay, it would be a lot easier..

Why shouldn't new players get more SP?

What are your solid arguments (defenders of : make it hard for newbros)?

It would bring more players capable of doing anything during a battle. Now most of them is useless cause they are lacking behind everybody else.

SP means a lot, gives huge andvantage.
We already have 60-100m+ sp.
The only thing it would give us is blues capable of helping and evolving.

Ps. Back when we started it was 100 times easier. Even with bullshit balance issues.
Back then (2012-2013) nobody had to deal with full squads/teams of 70m+ proto/officer stompers in every pub battle.

You did not learn the hard way genius. You Learned with people on a similar level if you have played very long. New guys now face 10 times the officer level opponents and proto suits you hade to endure. Even if you just started a year ago the number of 70+mill SP kits was less than a third it is now. Thinking before you speak some trolly BS would be nice. You were in easy mode kid, not hard mode. Start an alt right now and see what its like. then take into account you have actually played the game before. New guys need something.
Personally, I would just like a match making change where it actually balances teams in general not so there are a couple protosquads really fighting it out while the other guys are just there as scenery. Mixing chum with sharks is an idiotic idea, and a great way to show new players they aren't welcome here. Die 10 to 1 and tell me how long you want to play a game.

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A VERY good written long term game experience from a newbs point of view!!!
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Extra SP won't help newbs, direction will.

I have to disagree here. Reason? We should not pamper new players, they need to learn the game "the hard way" just like we did.