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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.07.04 16:19:00 - [31] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Finally there is the Gallente Commando, which I genuinely don't have a clue as to what sort of unique bonus they could receive that would compliment the playstyle. Given that Gallente are geared for CQC and a magazine increase would be a big benefit toward that, I have no idea what could be offered in place to make them unique. Honestly this would still be completely broken considering how much damage a Plasma Cannon does...you could pop a Sica without reloading (So less than 1 second from the time the first shot fires to the time the second shot fires), and pop a proper Gunnlogi with a 1-2 reloads or less reloads if you carry 2 PLCs. Not to mention a Kubo PLC would then carry 4 shots before reloading which would just be ****** in an AV situation. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.04 17:14:00 - [32] - Quote Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.04 17:28:00 - [33] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Errr... making it faster than the galassault seems... Bad? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.04 17:49:00 - [34] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: OP is OP is OP you cant justify it by skill levels or perceived "difficulty" of use. a gal with 2 shots in the PLC is OP. what about the officer variant? shotguns with double clip sizes? the 140 round AR? the 200 round krin sin 11? lol how can you sit there and propose this with a straight face? youre trolling hard man. hardest ive seen in awhile. two bonuses is too limiting. we need 4 bonuses on every role including commandos. 2 offensive and two defensive bonuses. if you really want a clip size bonus, then go with 40%. it wont break weapon like the PLC. Yeah, lemme tell you, a 140 round AR is game-breaking but the 1.9 second reload time in between two 70 round magazines isn't. Why? Because he can hold down the trigger? You ever held down the trigger for the entire magazine? You know how much recoil and dispersion that thing gets? Dude would have to take 1.9 seconds to wait for his gun to settle in the first place. The key difference here is that he isn't -forced- into a reload and can keep firing whereas the other guy has to reload the weapon, which is the very definition of suppression. You're going to have to think about ammo disparity when engaging a Commando. Do I have enough ammo? Can I kill him before he kills me? Can I break away from combat long enough that I can reload my weapon while he's still shooting? These are the questions players -need- to ask before engaging a Commando, not: "Is it a Minmatar Commando with a Swarm Launcher / Caldari Commando with a Sniper Rifle? No? Then there is no threat." yes, there's utility in shooting your gun forever without needing to reload, but youre creating major problems that we dont know if they can be solved. you cant simply give a blanket plasma weapon clips size increase because it affects alot of other weapons that were balanced on small clips sizes. breach shotgun, plasma cannons, tactical ARs all wre balanced to have small clip sizes and a bonus that applies to plasma weapons affects the whole category. the other issue is that because of how severe recoil gets with weapons, no one would be able to make any use of a increased clip size unless theyre at in cqc range. RRs with double clip size are useless. a 1.9 sec reload time is fine. its more than TTK for some suits, so reloading would get you killed. 700+ dps ScR? he gets 1.9 seconds of free DPS to apply to you while youre reloading. so youre forced to seek cover. speaking of ScR, what good is double the clip size there? youll overheat before its of any real use. suppression isnt about spamming bullets. spamming bbs isnt suppression is it? no its not. suppression is when there is an overwhelming threat of getting instantly killed the second you leave cover, like when a laser rifle has been heated up and directed at you. Its raw damage and stopping power, not quantity. people dont run for cover when there's a sniper shooting at them because they he has a 12 round clip lol... they run because he'll kill them in one or two shots. tanks dont run for cover because... "omg the forge has such a big clip i cant believe he's still shooting!" they run because he'll kill them in a couple shot if their hardener runs out. I run from ScR because im caldari and itll **** me if im not in cover. those are all instances of being suppressed. The bonus has diminishing returns toward small clip size weaponry. A Breach goes from 2 rounds to 4 rounds... Okay, that is fine and dandy but on a Galmando you're probably going to have to fit biotics - sacrificing EHP - to make it viable at all. Plasma Cannon is a different story but I don't see a two shot plasma cannon as that big of a deal, honestly, because it isn't -that- big of a threat to infantry unless you're using myros and any vehicle user will tell you that the most problematic weapon is the Swarm Launcher. If anything, the Galmando with these changes would probably be a good justification for boosting Vehicles' viability in the eventuality that it -did- become a problem, because we're still trying to nerf swarm launchers as it is due to that. Suppression is subjective to different contexts. You say "Spamming BBS isn't suppression is it?" but which would you say is more suppressive: An M16A4 Assault Rifle or an M249 SAW? EDIT: Also, you're flipping back and forth on your argument here. Your first post, I'm trolling for proposing a 100% increase in magazine capacity because it is OP. In this post, somehow that isn't viable suppression? Which is it? one shot from a plasma cannon on a gal commando at level 5 skills and a damage mod is 2516. youre saying that he wont run two of these, with two shots each? which gunnlogi is capable of surviving 10k in burst damage? Suppression is effectively controlling enemy actions. you can do it with a rifle or a squad support weapon. the difference is the amount of wasted ammo used to do it. im not excited about wasting ammo to do a job. double PLC ammo is OP. and 140 round ARs is viable, but RR and ScR arent really. AScR sure, but that thing is weird anyways right now. its an ARR with higher rof and none of the recoil issues and with better range than AR. here's another thing, this idea doesnt fit with the game's current design. if we can effectively control areas of the map for extended periods of time, where do we go? the maps arent big enough to allow proper movement to counter suppression tactics. how mant exits are there from a redline? how many entry points are there to gain access to an objective. we have suppression weapons already. we have the mass driver for use indoors, and the laser rifle for outdoor use. why do we need to urn every other weapon into something it was not designed for? how do you balance the odd variants?
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.04 19:40:00 - [35] - Quote Kinda responding to everyone at once here without quotes so, bear with me. 1) Giving GalMandos range. I'm against this because it sort of pigeonholes a lot of design factors. A lot of weapons are centralized around their short range and I think that by screwing with that it makes them hard to balance individually. An AR might not be very viable right now but there is some consideration toward buffing it to make it viable - if we then gave the GalMando a range bonus than the AR suddenly starts to overshadow other weapons uniquely with the GalMando and it might lead to some flavor of the month stuff. 2) Giving GalMandos Speed/Mobility. Also against this because then it starts to overlap with the proposal for assaults. Also, because of my next reason: 3) GalMandos with double-shot Plasma Cannons Plasma Cannons are hard to use in any context. Sure, it has splash damage so it makes it -sort of- an infantry tool but it really is designed around it's direct hit damage. So, does a double-shot PLC make it more powerful? Sure, but only in the context that you're sparing 2.975 seconds with Plasma Cannon Rapid Reload 5 (because the GalMando would be losing it's reload speed bonus, which would have put it at 2.3 seconds). From an anti-infantry standpoint you're thinking two shots with which to miss as opposed to one. Does that give the GalMando an advantage? Sure, but he'd still have to land a direct hit in either case. If he missed both times he would have given the enemy plenty of time to down him and because he's losing the reload speed bonus of the current GalMando, he'd take even longer (0.7 seconds) to reload. It provides an additional opportunity to get it right, but the consequences for not doing so are more drastic. It is both a simultaneous buff and nerf in the same instance. From an anti-vehicle standpoint: I think it is a little unfair to consider a Prototype AV weapon against a Militia Tank, especially if we're considering an anti-shield AV weapon against a shield tank (that many say is underwhelming compared to the armor tanks anyway). There are a lot more variables to consider than just "Oh it is unfair because Proto vs Militia is powerful" - hell yes it is skewed, it is meant to be, that is the entire point of the power leveled design and if you want to argue that you really need to be in favor of Tieracide, lol. If a GalMando ran two PLCs, he's at a disadvantage against Infantry. He's slow, sluggish, and loses a lot in favor of that single extra round in the magazine - namely, the 10% damage bonus and the reload speed. Both of which put him at a loss in certain situations. All for the sake of another round that he very well might miss. Even still the GalMando cannot wield grenades. So an Assault with a Plasma Cannon - even with a single round - and two AV Grenades would be doing similar, if not more damage, while also being faster and increasing his likeliness of keeping up with a tank. The PLC is by all rights a short range weapon. The projectile doesn't fly fast enough to warrant it's use at long range unless you're ambushing the target and they don't see it coming, which is a tactical disadvantage, not a mechanical one. EDIT: Which, another thing, if you're in a Gunnlogi and you're within range of a PLC and sticking around for all four shots with no infantry support - that's your bad, IMO. This isn't even taking into account that a dual-shield hardened Gunnlogi Cv.0 drop the per-shot damage (to my knowledge) to about 500 per shot. With which, the Gunnlogi could tank all four rounds from a double PLC wielding GalMando just with the stock 2,200 shields. A Kubo's with 4 shots? It's an officer weapon. It -SHOULD- be powerful. Further more, being an officer weapon means it isn't going to be something that you see on the regular. IMO, there are way too many factors to just make the blanket statement that a two-shot PLC would indefinitely be OP. There are far too many considerations. I stand by my assertions here and I feel that a two-shot PLC -MAY- be problematic but not to the extent that it would indefinitely and certainly cause the FotM to be GalMandos running around with double plasma cannons. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.07.05 07:04:00 - [36] - Quote Let me offer you this. There is a reason the Kubo's PLC is so beastly, and it has little to do with the amount of damage it does. It's almost entirely due to the fact that it can drop 2 shots I have a pretty extensive field record with the PLC and I've also dont quite a bit of numbers work with Breakin' in terms of AV. Let's take a look at this from a mathmatical perspective We'll go with a Gallente Commando, max skills, no damage mods, and a Standard PLC. (I dont have access to my PS3 atm so fogive me if my values are off) Direct Damage: 1300 Charge Time: 0.45 Seconds Reload Time: 2.23 seconds Effective Fire Rate: 0.45+2.23=2.68 seconds DPS: 1300/2.68= 485 DPS Now lets look at it with 2 shots in the magazine Direct Damage: 1300 Charge Time: 0.45 Seconds Reload Time 2.23 Seconds Effective Fire Rate: 0.45+0.45+2.23=3.13 seconds DPS (1300+1300)/3.13 seconds= 831 DPS Starting to see my concern here? Mind you that's not taking profinciency into account or the Galmmando damage bonus, yet you're still dropping 2600 damage in 0.9 seconds before reloading, an a massive 70% increase to PLC DPS simply from the magazine bonus alone. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.05 07:57:00 - [37] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Let me offer you this. There is a reason the Kubo's PLC is so beastly, and it has little to do with the amount of damage it does. It's almost entirely due to the fact that it can drop 2 shots I have a pretty extensive field record with the PLC and I've also dont quite a bit of numbers work with Breakin' in terms of AV. Let's take a look at this from a mathmatical perspective We'll go with a Gallente Commando, max skills, no damage mods, and a Standard PLC. (I dont have access to my PS3 atm so fogive me if my values are off) Direct Damage: 1300 Charge Time: 0.45 Seconds Reload Time: 2.23 seconds Effective Fire Rate: 0.45+2.23=2.68 seconds DPS: 1300/2.68= 485 DPS Now lets look at it with 2 shots in the magazine Direct Damage: 1300 Charge Time: 0.45 Seconds Reload Time 2.23 Seconds Effective Fire Rate: 0.45+0.45+2.23=3.13 seconds DPS (1300+1300)/3.13 seconds= 831 DPS Starting to see my concern here? Mind you that's not taking profinciency into account or the Galmmando damage bonus, yet you're still dropping 2600 damage in 0.9 seconds before reloading, an a massive 70% increase to PLC DPS simply from the magazine bonus alone. save us pokey! Amadi is a madman!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.07.05 08:06:00 - [38] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: save us pokey! Amadi is a madman! Don't get me wrong, the idea of increased magazine is an interesting one, and one I'm willing to explore. But there are some fatal flaws in it, the PLC being the biggest ones. Swarm Launchers are also another weapon which could experience problems (though not to the extent that you would see in the Plasma Cannon). "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.07.05 08:59:00 - [39] - Quote I find your premise to be flawed aeon and I disagree with the entirety of your proposal. Assaults are the front line fighters by virtue of their weapon performance buffs - all of which are currently very good and their combination of hp, recovery, mobility, utility in slots and just general well rounded-ness. While commandos were initially proposed as 'suppression' units, the role that the community has attached to them is often unparalleled versatility in its weapon options and primarily anti-vehicle gameplay. Commandos hit considerably harder than assaults and can completely sweep rooms, but they lack the recovery aspects and mobility (which makes them worse at rapidly assaulting than assaults). Both of these roles fill their own niches and are currently in pretty happy spots (barring the Amarrs lack of weaponry options & general playing second fiddle to the assault due to how it's bonus & 3 highs overshadows and outdamages it, some suits questionably overperforming and some suits needing tweaks to their base stats). Please start on a premise that isn't flawed. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 11:08:00 - [40] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: save us pokey! Amadi is a madman! Don't get me wrong, the idea of increased magazine is an interesting one, and one I'm willing to explore. But there are some fatal flaws in it, the PLC being the biggest ones. Swarm Launchers are also another weapon which could experience problems (though not to the extent that you would see in the Plasma Cannon). The numbers aren't necessarily true though, at least from a DPS stand-point. The GalMando would be losing it's reload speed bonus so the DPS would be more along the lines of 671, but I'll give you that the potential for a 2,700 burst of damage is somewhat powerful. I'm on the fence as to whether or not it would be 'OP' powerful though as the weapon is somewhat difficult to use and requires a stupid amount of skill for long range hits and a certain amount of mobility for short range hits. Bearing in mind that most vehicles, if not all of them, are generally faster than a Gallente Commando - or at least should be - it makes it a situational sort of deal. But like I said, I am on the fence about it because there are too many factors to consider. As far as Swarm Launchers, I mentioned this in the original proposal - there wouldn't be a Commando suit that gets a magazine bonus to Swarm Launchers (and likewise Mass Drivers) because the Minmatar Commando loses it's explosive favor in place of a Projectile favor. So it's magazine bonus would go to Combat Rifles and SMGs as opposed to Swarm Launchers and Mass Drivers. So that concern is misguided. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.

Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2015.07.05 15:32:00 - [41] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: OP is OP is OP you cant justify it by skill levels or perceived "difficulty" of use. a gal with 2 shots in the PLC is OP. what about the officer variant? shotguns with double clip sizes? the 140 round AR? the 200 round krin sin 11? lol how can you sit there and propose this with a straight face? youre trolling hard man. hardest ive seen in awhile. two bonuses is too limiting. we need 4 bonuses on every role including commandos. 2 offensive and two defensive bonuses. if you really want a clip size bonus, then go with 40%. it wont break weapon like the PLC. Easily resolved. Increase the reload time by 50-100%. They get two shots with double the downtime. Make it even longer if you want. I love these suggestions. I think splitting the two off into defined roles is inspired. I think it would need some tweaking as per the quoted comment, even if it was a knee-jerk reaction with no real thought put in beyond "NO! BECAUSE NO".
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 15:34:00 - [42] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: OP is OP is OP you cant justify it by skill levels or perceived "difficulty" of use. a gal with 2 shots in the PLC is OP. what about the officer variant? shotguns with double clip sizes? the 140 round AR? the 200 round krin sin 11? lol how can you sit there and propose this with a straight face? youre trolling hard man. hardest ive seen in awhile. two bonuses is too limiting. we need 4 bonuses on every role including commandos. 2 offensive and two defensive bonuses. if you really want a clip size bonus, then go with 40%. it wont break weapon like the PLC. Easily resolved. Increase the reload time by 50-100%. They get two shots with double the downtime. Make it even longer if you want. I love these suggestions. I think splitting the two off into defined roles is inspired. I think it would need some tweaking as per the quoted comment, even if it was a knee-jerk reaction with no real thought put in beyond "NO! BECAUSE NO". ..... Huh. That's actually a pretty simplistic solution, actually. Would make the rewards for landing the shot(s) a lot higher but the consequences for not landing them somewhat punishing. I kind of like it, actually. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:04:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Errr... making it faster than the galassault seems... Bad? The gal need that bonus built into their racial stats. At least for assaults and commandos. A built in dampener would be great as well
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:06:00 - [44] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Errr... making it faster than the galassault seems... Bad? The gal need that bonus built into their racial stats. At least for assaults and commandos. A built in dampener would be great as well So they'd have decent/good speed, damage application, profile, and armor repair rate... As someone who has run Gallente since closed beta, I'm going to say no. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.07.05 17:07:00 - [45] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: The numbers aren't necessarily true though, at least from a DPS stand-point. The GalMando would be losing it's reload speed bonus so the DPS would be more along the lines of 671, but I'll give you that the potential for a 2,700 burst of damage is somewhat powerful. Ok, lets explore it without the reload bonus then. Alright, so Non-Mando with PLC Damage: 1300 Charge Time: .45 Reload Time 2.975 Effective Fire Rate: .45+2.975=3.425 DPS: 1300/3.425 = 379 Galmmando Damage: 1300 (x2) Charge Time: .45 Reload Time: 2.975 Effective Fire Rate: .45+.45+2.975=3.875 DPS: (1300+1300)/3.425 = 671 Difference Between Gallmando and Nonmmando: [(671-379)/379100%=77% Increase So are you really OK with the Gallente Commando providing a 77% increase to DPS to the PLC? Because I personally feel that any bonus that increases DPS that much essentially impossible to balance. Either the the Galmmando will end up being OP, or the Nonmmando will be UP. "That little s*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2015.07.05 17:37:00 - [46] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: The numbers aren't necessarily true though, at least from a DPS stand-point. The GalMando would be losing it's reload speed bonus so the DPS would be more along the lines of 671, but I'll give you that the potential for a 2,700 burst of damage is somewhat powerful. Ok, lets explore it without the reload bonus then. Alright, so Non-Mando with PLC Damage: 1300 Charge Time: .45 Reload Time 2.975 Effective Fire Rate: .45+2.975=3.425 DPS: 1300/3.425 = 379 Galmmando Damage: 1300 (x2) Charge Time: .45 Reload Time: 2.975 Effective Fire Rate: .45+.45+2.975=3.875 DPS: (1300+1300)/3.425 = 671 Difference Between Gallmando and Nonmmando: [(671-379)/379*100%=77% Increase So are you really OK with the Gallente Commando providing a 77% increase to DPS to the PLC? Because I personally feel that any bonus that increases DPS that much essentially impossible to balance. Either the the Galmmando PLC will end up being OP, or the Nonmmando PLC will be UP. In some ways its similar to the old ADS bonus, where Small Turrets on their own were not a problem, but on an ADS they very much were due to the large increase in DPS from the ships bonus. Again, this can be balanced by increasing the reload speed of the PLC, it should be a specialist weapon anyway.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.07.05 18:58:00 - [47] - Quote Rattati has already state he is not interested in increasing the reload speed as it would make it more effective against infantry. Additionally a larger magazine would also have the same effect, and thus I don't see him going for it. As I've said Breakin and I have done a significant amount of work on the numbers behind AV (though I'll admit it was mostly Breakin' with me doing sanity checks) and have talked to some extent with Rattati about it as well. So unless Rattati has had a change of heart recently, I just don't see it happening. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:18:00 - [48] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Rattati has already state he is not interested in increasing the reload speed as it would make it more effective against infantry. Additionally a larger magazine would also have the same effect, and thus I don't see him going for it. As I've said Breakin and I have done a significant amount of work on the numbers behind AV (though I'll admit it was mostly Breakin' with me doing sanity checks) and have talked to some extent with Rattati about it as well. So unless Rattati has had a change of heart recently, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps, and tweaking would certainly be on the cards, but on the whole, I think the OP really had something, haggling over that specific bonus aside, that would actually differentiate the two types of suits. I think it's worth exploring the concepts anyway.
benandjerrys Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 247	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:18:00 - [49] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Rattati has already state he is not interested in increasing the reload speed as it would make it more effective against infantry. Additionally a larger magazine would also have the same effect, and thus I don't see him going for it. As I've said Breakin and I have done a significant amount of work on the numbers behind AV (though I'll admit it was mostly Breakin' with me doing sanity checks) and have talked to some extent with Rattati about it as well. So unless Rattati has had a change of heart recently, I just don't see it happening. ...and everybody's favorite dream smasher make his triumphant return thankyou for reason here. ONE UNIVERSE//ONE WAR Support Dust/EvE cross content We need live events discussion
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:27:00 - [50] - Quote Oh that's cool. An entire proposal completely destroyed, dismantled, and rendered moot not because of the dropsuits it entailed, but because of one weapon. Where was this sort of feedback when we were all saying the PLC was underpowered for a year and a half? Do we have any other comments that could potentially make it work? No? Than Galmando Bonus: 20% increase to magazine capacity per level of Assault Rifles. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.

Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:35:00 - [51] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Oh that's cool. An entire proposal completely destroyed, dismantled, and rendered moot not because of the dropsuits it entailed, but because of one weapon. Where was this sort of feedback when we were all saying the PLC was underpowered for a year and a half? Do we have any other comments that could potentially make it work? No? Than Galmando Bonus: 20% increase to magazine capacity per level of Assault Rifles. As I've said previously, I think the original idea has huge potential and is definitely worth exploring. As Pokey has pointed out, it relies on the willingness of the development team to engage. Personally I hope they will as diversity between the suits would be great and your ideas give them some great individual roles to perform and the biggest thing this game has going for it is the ability to build your own suit/role in the game for me.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:43:00 - [52] - Quote Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic. so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading. so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy. how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire? oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:45:00 - [53] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic. so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading. so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy. how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire? oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol I must admit I haven't timed how long it takes to switch weapons, but I'd be willing to wager it's not all that far off the reload time when the reload skills are maxed. I think you're overestimating the effect this could have. You're also engaging in reductio ad absurdem as the idea of seeing 16 commando's in one match is a patently ludicrous proposition. Thirdly, you use the word "cheat" when it clearly wouldn't be cheating. Aeon's post was reasoned and well thought out and you've resorted to ad hom and reductio ad absurdem which it doesn't deserve.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:48:00 - [54] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic. so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading. so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy. how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire? oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol I must admit I haven't timed how long it takes to switch weapons, but I'd be willing to wager it's not all that far off the reload time when the reload skills are maxed. I think you're overestimating the effect this could have. If you haven't gathered by now, he's just here to troll. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:49:00 - [55] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic. so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading. so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy. how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire? oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol I must admit I haven't timed how long it takes to switch weapons, but I'd be willing to wager it's not all that far off the reload time when the reload skills are maxed. I think you're overestimating the effect this could have. If you haven't gathered by now, he's just here to troll. Fair point, I got too engaged in trying to have a reasonable discussion that I failed to notice.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 19:53:00 - [56] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic. so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading. so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy. how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire? oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol I must admit I haven't timed how long it takes to switch weapons, but I'd be willing to wager it's not all that far off the reload time when the reload skills are maxed. I think you're overestimating the effect this could have. If you haven't gathered by now, he's just here to troll. Fair point, I got too engaged in trying to have a reasonable discussion that I failed to notice. Well, think about it like this, the argument isn't that you can have a light weapon with double the mag capacity anymore it's that you can dual wield them. Which, is interesting, because you can do that -right now- and have the higher damage and faster reload speed So the argument that "No, 140 rounds would be OP" insinuates that our current game mechanics (Galmando with two ARs, let alone a Rattati Gal Assault with two ARs) would be OP as well. But I don't hear many complaints about Galmandos with two ARs being OP. .... then again I also don't hear many complaints about Galmandos with two Plasma Cannons being OP either... EDIT: Which, I mean, knock out their two light weapons and suddenly balance has been restored - by that logic. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 852	Posted - 2015.07.05 20:43:00 - [57] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Errr... making it faster than the galassault seems... Bad? The gal need that bonus built into their racial stats. At least for assaults and commandos. A built in dampener would be great as well Kind of like this if it wouldnt infringe too much on scouts, minmatar might need this as well, it is very difficult to perform CQC or flanking/skirmish style play when permascanned
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.05 20:46:00 - [58] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Errr... making it faster than the galassault seems... Bad? The gal need that bonus built into their racial stats. At least for assaults and commandos. A built in dampener would be great as well Kind of like this if it wouldnt infringe too much on scouts, minmatar might need this as well, it is very difficult to perform CQC or flanking/skirmish style play when permascanned Easier solution would be to introduce a variant of cloaking devices that has a better profile reduction. An 'Active Profile Dampener'. 10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 852	Posted - 2015.07.05 20:47:00 - [59] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic. so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading. so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy. how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire? oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol Why would you bother dual wielding? 1. you can murder a couple of people with such large clips already, 2. dual wielding rifles would reduce your situational effectiveness by depriving you of a mass driver/swarm launcher/sniper rifle/whatever. Your complaint is like WHY WOULDNT A COMMANDO USE 2 SWARM LAUNCHERS IT WOULD BE SO OP VS VEHICLES. They dont because it isnt OP and it sucks against everything else.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.07.05 21:04:00 - [60] - Quote benandjerrys wrote: ...and everybody's favorite dream smasher make his triumphant return thankyou for reason here. Not sure if compliment or criticism.... Krias Thracian wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Rattati has already state he is not interested in increasing the reload speed as it would make it more effective against infantry. Additionally a larger magazine would also have the same effect, and thus I don't see him going for it. As I've said Breakin and I have done a significant amount of work on the numbers behind AV (though I'll admit it was mostly Breakin' with me doing sanity checks) and have talked to some extent with Rattati about it as well. So unless Rattati has had a change of heart recently, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps, and tweaking would certainly be on the cards, but on the whole, I think the OP really had something, haggling over that specific bonus aside, that would actually differentiate the two types of suits. I think it's worth exploring the concepts anyway. Oh don't get me wrong, as I said earlier I think the idea is worth entertaining. But there would need to be some neccessary tweaks before it would work properly because as is, it would make the PLC horrifically overpowered. That weapon in particular reacts to bonuses significantly differently due to its very extreme magazine/reload/damage ratio so you have to tread carefully when tweaking those values. Aeon Amadi wrote: Oh that's cool. An entire proposal completely destroyed, dismantled, and rendered moot not because of the dropsuits it entailed, but because of one weapon. Not really, see above. All I'm saying is that it's irresponsible to push a change through if its going to cause a glaring issue with a particular fascet. So as was stated before, the PLC would need a rather significant change as not to make this bonus work. I will say I am reluctant to mess with the PLC currently, as it actually performs pretty damn well as is, so I'm a little worried about fixing something isn't broken, just to add a bonus to the suit. On another note, something that may be worth discussing...would Laser weapons gain much advantage to a increased magazine since their primary limitation on sustained damage is more so tied to heat buildup and not so much magazine capacity? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net



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