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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.03 16:17:00 -
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Part 1
Been a topic of interest for the better part of a year now and I feel there is still some room to discuss ways to add some variety between Assaults and Commandos. Largely the design flaw comes from their current roles: They are both geared for offensive purposes with different approaches. However, as we know, homogenization and overlap between roles can wind up with both of them wondering what their real role is. This makes feedback on either somewhat difficult as they are both intended to be powerful in the offense department.
Assaults and Commandos are also threatened by the potential for 'Slayer Logis' and 'Slayer Scouts', but this is because we've been trying to reduce the capability of those roles -becoming- slayers rather than hallmarking Assaults and Commandos -AS- slayers with proper Slayer bonuses.
A little backstory, by the way: The Commando came into the game as a bone thrown to the heavy community but wound up being arguably one of the most under-utilized classes/roles in the game due to that same aforementioned homogenization. As we know, the proposal to 'Legion-ify' the two roles (removing commandos and giving Assaults two light weapons) isn't an option, so we need to get creative on how these roles differ rather than trying to make them both about frontline combat. This proposal would, in theory, drastically change the two roles, focusing and narrowing them down in two very different ways. Assaults would become the true Frontline Offensive role, and Commandos would return to their Suppression role.
Assaults
We've made the mistake of focusing on Assault suits' versatility to do everything, generally speaking. This has caused some problems (complaints about mobility + EHP + damage capability, not to mention equipment capability, etc; basically they can do everything) and trying to balance them has been problematic. Arguably, they're slated as to be "too good at slaying" (which I find amusing because that is their entire job  ).
So, to start with, the bonuses are good or bad, depending on the person. Amarr and Minmatar Assault users say that the bonuses are worth keeping and enjoy them, while Gallente and Caldari Assault users are mixed. There have been a -lot- of proposals on how to make them effective, but nothing has really stuck.
I'd like to propose that we move away from thinking of Assaults as the versatile, general infantry, and think of them more as the frontline damage dealers. They need to be able to constantly push and harass the frontline. Of which they are much better suited for this role than Commandos due to their mobility. I think a good way to do that is with two universally applied bonuses:
1) A damage bonus to respective racial weaponry. (Thinking 10%)
-Gallente Assault: 2% bonus to Hybrid - Blaster weapon damage per level
-Caldari Assault: 2% bonus to Hybrid - Rail weapon damage per level
-Amarr Assault: 2% bonus to Laser weapon damage per level
-Minmatar Assault: 2% bonus to Projectile weapon damage per level
2) A respective bonus toward racial combat philosophy.
-Gallente Assault: Increased Armor Repair rate from Repairers/Reactives
-Caldari Assault: Increased Shield HP from Extenders
-Amarr Assault: Increased Armor HP from plates
-Minmatar Assault: Increased Shield Regen Rate from Rechargers/Energizers (or potentially mobility module buffs, but we know this to be problematic)
With these changes, Assault Dropsuits become incredibly efficient at dealing damage with their respective weapons and their combat philosophy is hallmarked by the suit they are wearing. The removal of weapon fitting bonuses reduces their versatility in favor of more consistent fittings. Dual-tanking is possible with the compliment toward their defensive combat philosophy, but less likely as they have to work with the increased CPU/PG costs of their weaponry. Further more, the bonuses are applied actively toward modules and not passively toward the suit itself - they only get bonuses toward the modules in question.
I'm sure a lot of Amarr and Minmatar Assaults are mixed on these bonuses, what with the removal of their already good bonuses. There is a reason for this, as will be explained in the Commandos section. Either way, these are bonuses that I think a lot of Assaults could nod their head to.
Some people ask us, "Where do you call home?"
And we say, "Home is where the bullets fly. Where the shells land."
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.03 16:18:00 -
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Part 2
Commandos
By now a lot of Commandos are freaking out over the damage bonus being given toward Assaults. Commandos were originally designed, and to a degree still are, as Suppression units. They're sluggish, high EHP nature makes them more resilient to incoming fire and their universal reload speed makes them excellent at putting the hurt on the enemy faster, but I think we can do better at making them suppressive units in a more unique way while reducing the homogenization with Assaults.
A reload speed bonus accomplishes one goal: Putting more rounds down-range, faster. There is literally no other purpose to reload speed besides this. The same goal can be accomplished by a Magazine Increase bonus. A substantial one. We're talking 20% increased magazine capacity per level.
"Whoooa, Aeon, 100% increased magazine capacity is insane! That is entirely OP!"
Not really, you see, all it is doing is taking the occasional two seconds of reload speed out of the equation. More rounds in the magazine doesn't constitute more ammunition, either, it just means that more of the maximum ammo is in the magazine and the weapon can be fired for longer. A Gallente Commando with an Assault Rifle would have the same amount of rounds as a Gallente Assault with an Assault Rifle. It also balances itself in a rudimentary way because the longer you hold the trigger the higher the recoil is. Eventually, unless you want to try your hand at duck hunt, you'll have to lay off the trigger and let the weapon settle.
There is some consideration toward specific weapons that become broken with this, however. Swarm Launchers and Mass Drivers, in particular. The Minmatar Commando's weaponry bonus would have to shift to Projectile Weaponry instead of Explosive Weaponry. But, considering how many complaints there are about Swarm Launchers from vehicle users, I can only imagine they'd unanimously support this change 
The only remaining weapon that becomes broken, IMO, is the Plasma Cannon - but considering that Gallente Commando would -have- to be at least level three to get the second round in the 'magazine', assuming rounding, and would not obtain any benefit from it therein afterward, I don't see this as a particularly game breaking thing. The Plasma Cannon by itself is difficult to use and opportunistic as is and there aren't many Myro Commandos running around with which to make it a problem for infantry.
To put it simply, the Commando's bonuses under this proposal would be as such:
-Gallente Commando: 20% bonus to Hybrid - Blaster weapon magazine capacity per level.
-Caldari Commando: 20% bonus to Hybrid - Rail weapon magazine capacity per level.
-Amarr Commando: 20% bonus to Laser weapon magazine capacity per level.
-Minmatar Commando: 20% bonus to Projectile weapon magazine capacity per level.
So that is one bonus down. What about the other? If reload speed is being replaced by magazine capacity and the damage bonus is going to assaults, what unique benefits could we give to Commandos that separates them from Assaults while also hallmarking on their role as suppression?
A good bonus toward the Amarr, I feel, that compliments their suppression is either a cool-down bonus or a heat build reduction. With more rounds in the magazine and the constant threat of heat build, either of these benefits would compliment the playstyle well. A Laser Rifle with reduced heat build and a larger magazine capacity would -ABSOLUTELY- be a force to be reckoned with and I think it would define the meaning of suppression. As soon as you see that laser beam, you'd be diving for cover.
Minmatar Commandos would be a little less about suppression a bit more about cover busting, but this isn't a justification to break them. As such, a good way to go about this, I feel, is to give them an increase in Splash Radius rather than outright explosive damage. This would mean they could force players out of cover more reliably, with better ease of use, and they would genuinely be a threat that needed to be dealt with. (The Assault Mass Driver might need to be balanced in accordance with this, but the Breach Mass Driver might actually get some use as a result)
Caldari commandos are pretty easy. With an increase in magazine capacity and a focus on ranged combat, the best bet for them would be a recoil reduction in ADS, specifically. Hipfire would be, without a doubt, broken.
Finally there is the Gallente Commando, which I genuinely don't have a clue as to what sort of unique bonus they could receive that would compliment the playstyle. Given that Gallente are geared for CQC and a magazine increase would be a big benefit toward that, I have no idea what could be offered in place to make them unique.
-Gallente Commando: ?????
-Caldari Commando: 5% reduction to Hybrid - Rail weapon ADS recoil per level.
-Amarr Commando: 5% reduction to Laser heat-build per level /OR/ 5% bonus to Laser cool-down per level.
-Minmatar Commando: 5% bonus to Explosive weapon splash damage per level.
Some people ask us, "Where do you call home?"
And we say, "Home is where the bullets fly. Where the shells land."
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.03 17:49:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:Commandos on the gallente side suffer from not being able to get close enough, fast enough to capitalize on their firepower in my experience
Right right. Dunno what we could give them that would contribute to that a bit more.
The root question: What do we give a CQC suppression unit to make it unique and viable?
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.03 23:23:00 -
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Veg Hegirin wrote:Assault bonuses are tied to the primary drawback of weapons, and have both grenades and equipment. You're stuck with the engagement profile of your weapon, but you function better when you're in your element. You can assault any location by getting to your optimal engagement positions, which you just win at. It befits the name.
Commandos get more burst damage and EHP, and can bring a weapon for every occasion. Not as useful in a slugfest, but should be ready to win any 1v1 off to the side, also befitting their name
You're proposing to just switch the two roles. I don't see why you need to bother.
Did you read the entire thread or did you just stop where it said that Assaults would get a damage bonus?
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.04 04:49:00 -
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DeathwindRising wrote:OP is OP is OP
you cant justify it by skill levels or perceived "difficulty" of use. a gal with 2 shots in the PLC is OP. what about the officer variant?
shotguns with double clip sizes?
the 140 round AR? the 200 round krin sin 11? lol how can you sit there and propose this with a straight face?
youre trolling hard man. hardest ive seen in awhile.
two bonuses is too limiting. we need 4 bonuses on every role including commandos. 2 offensive and two defensive bonuses.
if you really want a clip size bonus, then go with 40%. it wont break weapon like the PLC.
Yeah, lemme tell you, a 140 round AR is game-breaking but the 1.9 second reload time in between two 70 round magazines isn't.
Why? Because he can hold down the trigger? You ever held down the trigger for the entire magazine? You know how much recoil and dispersion that thing gets? Dude would have to take 1.9 seconds to wait for his gun to settle in the first place. The key difference here is that he isn't -forced- into a reload and can keep firing whereas the other guy has to reload the weapon, which is the very definition of suppression.
You're going to have to think about ammo disparity when engaging a Commando. Do I have enough ammo? Can I kill him before he kills me? Can I break away from combat long enough that I can reload my weapon while he's still shooting? These are the questions players -need- to ask before engaging a Commando, not: "Is it a Minmatar Commando with a Swarm Launcher / Caldari Commando with a Sniper Rifle? No? Then there is no threat."
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.04 15:59:00 -
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DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:OP is OP is OP
you cant justify it by skill levels or perceived "difficulty" of use. a gal with 2 shots in the PLC is OP. what about the officer variant?
shotguns with double clip sizes?
the 140 round AR? the 200 round krin sin 11? lol how can you sit there and propose this with a straight face?
youre trolling hard man. hardest ive seen in awhile.
two bonuses is too limiting. we need 4 bonuses on every role including commandos. 2 offensive and two defensive bonuses.
if you really want a clip size bonus, then go with 40%. it wont break weapon like the PLC. Yeah, lemme tell you, a 140 round AR is game-breaking but the 1.9 second reload time in between two 70 round magazines isn't. Why? Because he can hold down the trigger? You ever held down the trigger for the entire magazine? You know how much recoil and dispersion that thing gets? Dude would have to take 1.9 seconds to wait for his gun to settle in the first place. The key difference here is that he isn't -forced- into a reload and can keep firing whereas the other guy has to reload the weapon, which is the very definition of suppression. You're going to have to think about ammo disparity when engaging a Commando. Do I have enough ammo? Can I kill him before he kills me? Can I break away from combat long enough that I can reload my weapon while he's still shooting? These are the questions players -need- to ask before engaging a Commando, not: "Is it a Minmatar Commando with a Swarm Launcher / Caldari Commando with a Sniper Rifle? No? Then there is no threat." yes, there's utility in shooting your gun forever without needing to reload, but youre creating major problems that we dont know if they can be solved. you cant simply give a blanket plasma weapon clips size increase because it affects alot of other weapons that were balanced on small clips sizes. breach shotgun, plasma cannons, tactical ARs all wre balanced to have small clip sizes and a bonus that applies to plasma weapons affects the whole category. the other issue is that because of how severe recoil gets with weapons, no one would be able to make any use of a increased clip size unless theyre at in cqc range. RRs with double clip size are useless. a 1.9 sec reload time is fine. its more than TTK for some suits, so reloading would get you killed. 700+ dps ScR? he gets 1.9 seconds of free DPS to apply to you while youre reloading. so youre forced to seek cover. speaking of ScR, what good is double the clip size there? youll overheat before its of any real use. suppression isnt about spamming bullets. spamming bbs isnt suppression is it? no its not. suppression is when there is an overwhelming threat of getting instantly killed the second you leave cover, like when a laser rifle has been heated up and directed at you. Its raw damage and stopping power, not quantity. people dont run for cover when there's a sniper shooting at them because they he has a 12 round clip lol... they run because he'll kill them in one or two shots. tanks dont run for cover because... "omg the forge has such a big clip i cant believe he's still shooting!" they run because he'll kill them in a couple shot if their hardener runs out. I run from ScR because im caldari and itll **** me if im not in cover. those are all instances of being suppressed.
The bonus has diminishing returns toward small clip size weaponry. A Breach goes from 2 rounds to 4 rounds... Okay, that is fine and dandy but on a Galmando you're probably going to have to fit biotics - sacrificing EHP - to make it viable at all. Plasma Cannon is a different story but I don't see a two shot plasma cannon as that big of a deal, honestly, because it isn't -that- big of a threat to infantry unless you're using myros and any vehicle user will tell you that the most problematic weapon is the Swarm Launcher. If anything, the Galmando with these changes would probably be a good justification for boosting Vehicles' viability in the eventuality that it -did- become a problem, because we're still trying to nerf swarm launchers as it is due to that.
Suppression is subjective to different contexts. You say "Spamming BBS isn't suppression is it?" but which would you say is more suppressive: An M16A4 Assault Rifle or an M249 SAW?
EDIT: Also, you're flipping back and forth on your argument here. Your first post, I'm trolling for proposing a 100% increase in magazine capacity because it is OP. In this post, somehow that isn't viable suppression? Which is it?
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.04 19:40:00 -
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Kinda responding to everyone at once here without quotes so, bear with me.
1) Giving GalMandos range.
I'm against this because it sort of pigeonholes a lot of design factors. A lot of weapons are centralized around their short range and I think that by screwing with that it makes them hard to balance individually. An AR might not be very viable right now but there is some consideration toward buffing it to make it viable - if we then gave the GalMando a range bonus than the AR suddenly starts to overshadow other weapons uniquely with the GalMando and it might lead to some flavor of the month stuff.
2) Giving GalMandos Speed/Mobility.
Also against this because then it starts to overlap with the proposal for assaults. Also, because of my next reason:
3) GalMandos with double-shot Plasma Cannons
Plasma Cannons are hard to use in any context. Sure, it has splash damage so it makes it -sort of- an infantry tool but it really is designed around it's direct hit damage. So, does a double-shot PLC make it more powerful? Sure, but only in the context that you're sparing 2.975 seconds with Plasma Cannon Rapid Reload 5 (because the GalMando would be losing it's reload speed bonus, which would have put it at 2.3 seconds).
From an anti-infantry standpoint you're thinking two shots with which to miss as opposed to one. Does that give the GalMando an advantage? Sure, but he'd still have to land a direct hit in either case. If he missed both times he would have given the enemy plenty of time to down him and because he's losing the reload speed bonus of the current GalMando, he'd take even longer
(0.7 seconds) to reload. It provides an additional opportunity to get it right, but the consequences for not doing so are more drastic. It is both a simultaneous buff and nerf in the same instance.
From an anti-vehicle standpoint: I think it is a little unfair to consider a Prototype AV weapon against a Militia Tank, especially if we're considering an anti-shield AV weapon against a shield tank (that many say is underwhelming compared to the armor tanks anyway). There are a lot more variables to consider than just "Oh it is unfair because Proto vs Militia is powerful" - hell yes it is skewed, it is meant to be, that is the entire point of the power leveled design and if you want to argue that you really need to be in favor of Tieracide, lol.
If a GalMando ran two PLCs, he's at a disadvantage against Infantry. He's slow, sluggish, and loses a lot in favor of that single extra round in the magazine - namely, the 10% damage bonus and the reload speed. Both of which put him at a loss in certain situations. All for the sake of another round that he very well might miss.
Even still the GalMando cannot wield grenades. So an Assault with a Plasma Cannon - even with a single round - and two AV Grenades would be doing similar, if not more damage, while also being faster and increasing his likeliness of keeping up with a tank. The PLC is by all rights a short range weapon. The projectile doesn't fly fast enough to warrant it's use at long range unless you're ambushing the target and they don't see it coming, which is a tactical disadvantage, not a mechanical one.
EDIT: Which, another thing, if you're in a Gunnlogi and you're within range of a PLC and sticking around for all four shots with no infantry support - that's your bad, IMO. This isn't even taking into account that a dual-shield hardened Gunnlogi Cv.0 drop the per-shot damage (to my knowledge) to about 500 per shot. With which, the Gunnlogi could tank all four rounds from a double PLC wielding GalMando just with the stock 2,200 shields.
A Kubo's with 4 shots? It's an officer weapon. It -SHOULD- be powerful. Further more, being an officer weapon means it isn't going to be something that you see on the regular.
IMO, there are way too many factors to just make the blanket statement that a two-shot PLC would indefinitely be OP. There are far too many considerations. I stand by my assertions here and I feel that a two-shot PLC -MAY- be problematic but not to the extent that it would indefinitely and certainly cause the FotM to be GalMandos running around with double plasma cannons.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 11:08:00 -
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Pokey Dravon wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
save us pokey! Amadi is a madman!
Don't get me wrong, the idea of increased magazine is an interesting one, and one I'm willing to explore. But there are some fatal flaws in it, the PLC being the biggest ones. Swarm Launchers are also another weapon which could experience problems (though not to the extent that you would see in the Plasma Cannon).
The numbers aren't necessarily true though, at least from a DPS stand-point. The GalMando would be losing it's reload speed bonus so the DPS would be more along the lines of 671, but I'll give you that the potential for a 2,700 burst of damage is somewhat powerful. I'm on the fence as to whether or not it would be 'OP' powerful though as the weapon is somewhat difficult to use and requires a stupid amount of skill for long range hits and a certain amount of mobility for short range hits. Bearing in mind that most vehicles, if not all of them, are generally faster than a Gallente Commando - or at least should be - it makes it a situational sort of deal. But like I said, I am on the fence about it because there are too many factors to consider.
As far as Swarm Launchers, I mentioned this in the original proposal - there wouldn't be a Commando suit that gets a magazine bonus to Swarm Launchers (and likewise Mass Drivers) because the Minmatar Commando loses it's explosive favor in place of a Projectile favor. So it's magazine bonus would go to Combat Rifles and SMGs as opposed to Swarm Launchers and Mass Drivers. So that concern is misguided.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 15:34:00 -
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Krias Thracian wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:OP is OP is OP
you cant justify it by skill levels or perceived "difficulty" of use. a gal with 2 shots in the PLC is OP. what about the officer variant?
shotguns with double clip sizes?
the 140 round AR? the 200 round krin sin 11? lol how can you sit there and propose this with a straight face?
youre trolling hard man. hardest ive seen in awhile.
two bonuses is too limiting. we need 4 bonuses on every role including commandos. 2 offensive and two defensive bonuses.
if you really want a clip size bonus, then go with 40%. it wont break weapon like the PLC. Easily resolved. Increase the reload time by 50-100%. They get two shots with double the downtime. Make it even longer if you want. I love these suggestions. I think splitting the two off into defined roles is inspired. I think it would need some tweaking as per the quoted comment, even if it was a knee-jerk reaction with no real thought put in beyond "NO! BECAUSE NO".
..... Huh. That's actually a pretty simplistic solution, actually. Would make the rewards for landing the shot(s) a lot higher but the consequences for not landing them somewhat punishing. I kind of like it, actually.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 16:06:00 -
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DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Errr... making it faster than the galassault seems... Bad? The gal need that bonus built into their racial stats. At least for assaults and commandos. A built in dampener would be great as well
So they'd have decent/good speed, damage application, profile, and armor repair rate...
As someone who has run Gallente since closed beta, I'm going to say no.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 19:27:00 -
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Oh that's cool. An entire proposal completely destroyed, dismantled, and rendered moot not because of the dropsuits it entailed, but because of one weapon.
Where was this sort of feedback when we were all saying the PLC was underpowered for a year and a half?
Do we have any other comments that could potentially make it work? No?
Than Galmando Bonus: 20% increase to magazine capacity per level of Assault Rifles.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 19:48:00 -
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Krias Thracian wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic.
so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading.
so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy.
how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire?
oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol I must admit I haven't timed how long it takes to switch weapons, but I'd be willing to wager it's not all that far off the reload time when the reload skills are maxed. I think you're overestimating the effect this could have.
If you haven't gathered by now, he's just here to troll.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 19:53:00 -
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Krias Thracian wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Krias Thracian wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Every time I mention the name Aeon Amadi, someone laughs hysterically... and then we move on to a more serious topic.
so even if we double AR clip size on commandos, and increased reload time to balance them... we still can cheat by carrying 2 ARs and switching to the second instead of reloading.
so instead of one AR with 140 rounds, its 2 for a total 280 rounds without the need to reload. and thats just one guy.
how about 16 of them all taking turns so that there's never any reasonable break in fire?
oh god the krin sin 11 lol. 200 round clips and dual wield them lol. yea.... nobody can abuse that lol I must admit I haven't timed how long it takes to switch weapons, but I'd be willing to wager it's not all that far off the reload time when the reload skills are maxed. I think you're overestimating the effect this could have. If you haven't gathered by now, he's just here to troll. Fair point, I got too engaged in trying to have a reasonable discussion that I failed to notice.
Well, think about it like this, the argument isn't that you can have a light weapon with double the mag capacity anymore it's that you can dual wield them. Which, is interesting, because you can do that -right now- and have the higher damage and faster reload speed
So the argument that "No, 140 rounds would be OP" insinuates that our current game mechanics (Galmando with two ARs, let alone a Rattati Gal Assault with two ARs) would be OP as well. But I don't hear many complaints about Galmandos with two ARs being OP.
.... then again I also don't hear many complaints about Galmandos with two Plasma Cannons being OP either...
EDIT: Which, I mean, knock out their two light weapons and suddenly balance has been restored - by that logic.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 20:46:00 -
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Vesta Opalus wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Give Gallente commandos 3% sprint speed per level. A free kincats at 5. Let's them get their plasma rifles into range quicker, which is in line with Gallente combat philosophy. Errr... making it faster than the galassault seems... Bad? The gal need that bonus built into their racial stats. At least for assaults and commandos. A built in dampener would be great as well Kind of like this if it wouldnt infringe too much on scouts, minmatar might need this as well, it is very difficult to perform CQC or flanking/skirmish style play when permascanned
Easier solution would be to introduce a variant of cloaking devices that has a better profile reduction. An 'Active Profile Dampener'.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.05 21:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:benandjerrys wrote:...and everybody's favorite dream smasher make his triumphant return thankyou for reason here. Not sure if compliment or criticism.... Krias Thracian wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Rattati has already state he is not interested in increasing the reload speed as it would make it more effective against infantry. Additionally a larger magazine would also have the same effect, and thus I don't see him going for it. As I've said Breakin and I have done a significant amount of work on the numbers behind AV (though I'll admit it was mostly Breakin' with me doing sanity checks) and have talked to some extent with Rattati about it as well.
So unless Rattati has had a change of heart recently, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps, and tweaking would certainly be on the cards, but on the whole, I think the OP really had something, haggling over that specific bonus aside, that would actually differentiate the two types of suits. I think it's worth exploring the concepts anyway. Oh don't get me wrong, as I said earlier I think the idea is worth entertaining. But there would need to be some neccessary tweaks before it would work properly because as is, it would make the PLC horrifically overpowered. That weapon in particular reacts to bonuses significantly differently due to its very extreme magazine/reload/damage ratio so you have to tread carefully when tweaking those values. Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh that's cool. An entire proposal completely destroyed, dismantled, and rendered moot not because of the dropsuits it entailed, but because of one weapon. Not really, see above. All I'm saying is that it's irresponsible to push a change through if its going to cause a glaring issue with a particular fascet. So as was stated before, the PLC would need a rather significant change as not to make this bonus work. I will say I am reluctant to mess with the PLC currently, as it actually performs pretty damn well as is, so I'm a little worried about fixing something isn't broken, just to add a bonus to the suit. On another note, something that may be worth discussing...would Laser weapons gain much advantage to a increased magazine since their primary limitation on sustained damage is more so tied to heat buildup and not so much magazine capacity?
To refresh you, the Amarr Commando proposal is to take the Amarr Assault's heat build reduction, which would work wonders on a weapon with a larger mag count.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.08 22:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:As well thought out as it is. I'm not really going to back anything that takes me built in Heatsinks away. I like em too much.
I kind of like the idea that the Amarr are a DoT race when it comes to damage dealing.
It'd just be moving to the Amarr Commando where it'd be better off anyway due to the mag increase.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.08 22:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:A suppressive weapon is by definition "A weapon with more than sufficient firepower to turn your ass to chutney if you stick your neck out into the open for any extended period of time."
Having more bullets than the competition is strictly optional.
Grenade launchers (mass drivers) are pretty much the definition of suppressive weapons. Laser Rifles are suppression from hell itself and fits the role perfectly.
the assault HMG is STARTING to push that direction.
there's a few others, but those are the stand-outs.
But for a weapon to be suppressive it needs to have the right combo of range and firepower. Mass drivers do it by alpha and AoE, laser rifles do it by range and scaling DPS.
Suppression is a nebulous term. People think the Mass Driver is a suppression weapon but it's entire design is to force players -OUT- of cover, rather than -INTO- cover.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
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Posted - 2015.07.08 22:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:True Adamance wrote:As well thought out as it is. I'm not really going to back anything that takes me built in Heatsinks away. I like em too much.
I kind of like the idea that the Amarr are a DoT race when it comes to damage dealing. It'd just be moving to the Amarr Commando where it'd be better off anyway due to the mag increase. .......You still haven't quite hooked me. In theory it sounds great..... but would I really want to play an Amarr Commando like that> Arguably one of the cooler things about the Amarr Commando is that it AScR functions kind of like an LMG.
O.o; well I mean you'd have an ASCR with +100% mag capacity and a 25% reduction to heat build. That would kinda make it a Light... Scrambler... Machine Gun?
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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