|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
   |
Posted - 2015.07.04 16:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Finally there is the Gallente Commando, which I genuinely don't have a clue as to what sort of unique bonus they could receive that would compliment the playstyle. Given that Gallente are geared for CQC and a magazine increase would be a big benefit toward that, I have no idea what could be offered in place to make them unique.
Honestly this would still be completely broken considering how much damage a Plasma Cannon does...you could pop a Sica without reloading (So less than 1 second from the time the first shot fires to the time the second shot fires), and pop a proper Gunnlogi with a 1-2 reloads or less reloads if you carry 2 PLCs. Not to mention a Kubo PLC would then carry 4 shots before reloading which would just be ******** in an AV situation.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 07:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Let me offer you this. There is a reason the Kubo's PLC is so beastly, and it has little to do with the amount of damage it does. It's almost entirely due to the fact that it can drop 2 shots
I have a pretty extensive field record with the PLC and I've also dont quite a bit of numbers work with Breakin' in terms of AV.
Let's take a look at this from a mathmatical perspective We'll go with a Gallente Commando, max skills, no damage mods, and a Standard PLC. (I dont have access to my PS3 atm so fogive me if my values are off)
Direct Damage: 1300
Charge Time: 0.45 Seconds
Reload Time: 2.23 seconds
Effective Fire Rate: 0.45+2.23=2.68 seconds
DPS: 1300/2.68= 485 DPS
Now lets look at it with 2 shots in the magazine
Direct Damage: 1300
Charge Time: 0.45 Seconds
Reload Time 2.23 Seconds
Effective Fire Rate: 0.45+0.45+2.23=3.13 seconds
DPS (1300+1300)/3.13 seconds= 831 DPS
Starting to see my concern here? Mind you that's not taking profinciency into account or the Galmmando damage bonus, yet you're still dropping 2600 damage in 0.9 seconds before reloading, an a massive 70% increase to PLC DPS simply from the magazine bonus alone.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 08:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
save us pokey! Amadi is a madman!
Don't get me wrong, the idea of increased magazine is an interesting one, and one I'm willing to explore. But there are some fatal flaws in it, the PLC being the biggest ones. Swarm Launchers are also another weapon which could experience problems (though not to the extent that you would see in the Plasma Cannon).
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
The numbers aren't necessarily true though, at least from a DPS stand-point. The GalMando would be losing it's reload speed bonus so the DPS would be more along the lines of 671, but I'll give you that the potential for a 2,700 burst of damage is somewhat powerful.
Ok, lets explore it without the reload bonus then.
Alright, so Non-Mando with PLC
Damage: 1300
Charge Time: .45
Reload Time 2.975
Effective Fire Rate: .45+2.975=3.425
DPS: 1300/3.425 = 379
Galmmando
Damage: 1300 (x2)
Charge Time: .45
Reload Time: 2.975
Effective Fire Rate: .45+.45+2.975=3.875
DPS: (1300+1300)/3.425 = 671
Difference Between Gallmando and Nonmmando: [(671-379)/379*100%=77% Increase
So are you really OK with the Gallente Commando providing a 77% increase to DPS to the PLC? Because I personally feel that any bonus that increases DPS that much essentially impossible to balance. Either the the Galmmando will end up being OP, or the Nonmmando will be UP.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 18:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rattati has already state he is not interested in increasing the reload speed as it would make it more effective against infantry. Additionally a larger magazine would also have the same effect, and thus I don't see him going for it. As I've said Breakin and I have done a significant amount of work on the numbers behind AV (though I'll admit it was mostly Breakin' with me doing sanity checks) and have talked to some extent with Rattati about it as well.
So unless Rattati has had a change of heart recently, I just don't see it happening.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:...and everybody's favorite dream smasher make his triumphant return  thankyou for reason here.
Not sure if compliment or criticism....
Krias Thracian wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Rattati has already state he is not interested in increasing the reload speed as it would make it more effective against infantry. Additionally a larger magazine would also have the same effect, and thus I don't see him going for it. As I've said Breakin and I have done a significant amount of work on the numbers behind AV (though I'll admit it was mostly Breakin' with me doing sanity checks) and have talked to some extent with Rattati about it as well.
So unless Rattati has had a change of heart recently, I just don't see it happening. Perhaps, and tweaking would certainly be on the cards, but on the whole, I think the OP really had something, haggling over that specific bonus aside, that would actually differentiate the two types of suits. I think it's worth exploring the concepts anyway.
Oh don't get me wrong, as I said earlier I think the idea is worth entertaining. But there would need to be some neccessary tweaks before it would work properly because as is, it would make the PLC horrifically overpowered. That weapon in particular reacts to bonuses significantly differently due to its very extreme magazine/reload/damage ratio so you have to tread carefully when tweaking those values.
Aeon Amadi wrote:Oh that's cool. An entire proposal completely destroyed, dismantled, and rendered moot not because of the dropsuits it entailed, but because of one weapon.
Not really, see above. All I'm saying is that it's irresponsible to push a change through if its going to cause a glaring issue with a particular fascet. So as was stated before, the PLC would need a rather significant change as not to make this bonus work. I will say I am reluctant to mess with the PLC currently, as it actually performs pretty damn well as is, so I'm a little worried about fixing something isn't broken, just to add a bonus to the suit.
On another note, something that may be worth discussing...would Laser weapons gain much advantage to a increased magazine since their primary limitation on sustained damage is more so tied to heat buildup and not so much magazine capacity?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
To refresh you, the Amarr Commando proposal is to take the Amarr Assault's heat build reduction, which would work wonders on a weapon with a larger mag count.
Ah fair enough, missed that bit.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 22:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I agree with you mostly, but if commandos are supposed to be suppression, shouldn't they also get more max ammo too? Remember, suppression fire isn't trying to kill someone, it's trying to keep them pinned for other suits (the assault suits) to flank them. So what's the point of a larger magazine if you're going to run dry in the same amount of time as an assault would?
20% bonus to racial light weapon magazine size and max ammo.
In addition, I would think about giving the defense bonus to the commandos, since they have to be exposed in order to deliver that suppression fire. Can't suppress from behind a wall. In exchange, give assaults bonuses to movement, in order to make them better flankers since they can get into position quicker. Just some things to consider.
You also have to consider though....does a larger magazine really make a weapon a suppression weapon? I mean if I have an AR and the enemy has a Rail Rifle....even if I have double the magazine size, how effective am I going to be at suppressing someone who has more range than me? I just dont feel like an increased magazine will make an assault weapon into a suppression weapon, at least in all cases.
I mean just personally, if I really wanted a suppression role, I'd want something like increase splash radius to Mass Drivers since the Mass Driver is by its nature, more focused on suppression.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 14:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
That's and interestiny way to look at so I see where you are coming from. I suppose my definition is slightly different in that I consider a suppression weapon to be something that prevents you from accessing certain areas, area denial if you will. May that be preventing the enemy from advancing out from behind cover or forcing them to take cover. I consider the Laser Rifle and arguably the Sniper Rifle to be suppressive weapons as well.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
|
|
| |
|