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Minimum Damage Threshold to Break Shield Regen

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Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9834	Posted - 2015.04.29 08:29:00 - [1] - Quote Brought up and loosely discussed in this thread. Wanted to expand on it a little bit with it's own thread. What would the minimum damage threshold be that it wouldn't be entirely broken? My thoughts are that a Caldari Assault with a Rail Rifle should have an obvious advantage against, say, a Gallente Assault with an Assault Rifle. Using that as a baseline, with the Rail Rifle's optimal range being 75m and the Assault Rifle's optimal being 40m, maybe that should be a good base? Say that a Caldari Assault has a Shield Damage Threshold of 225 DPS (50% max efficiency). That puts a Basic Assault Rifle at not being able to break the damage threshold at anything past 63m or so and thereby the Cal Assault's shields would continue to regen even while being shot at that range, giving them a notable advantage at longer ranges. This also gives a higher incentive to use high-alpha damage weaponry against them at long range such as the Sniper Rifle or Scrambler Rifle. Flat rate or role-based? Caldari Sentinels obviously have a much different mechanic than Caldari Assaults what with their low depleted shield delay. Should we also assume that'd they'd have different damage thresholds? I could see Commandos and Assaults having much higher tolerances, given their offense-oriented nature, than Sentinels, Scouts, or Logis. Commandos, especially, would benefit from a higher damage tolerance given their penchant for the Sniper Rifle/Rail Rifle combo. A Minmatar Assault, focusing more on speed and less so ranged combat, would have less tolerance toward damage than either the Cal Commando or Cal Assault, in that case. But maybe that's not the optimal solution and shields should have a flat rate of damage threshold for balance purposes? Module interaction? Should we also assume that a new or existing module would impact the damage threshold? Regulators, focusing more on recovery after-the-fact, could have a negative effect on the damage threshold whereas shield extenders (which increase the shield delay) could consequently increase the damage threshold. A sort of Tanking / Recovery metric between the modules. What about a new module that exists solely to increase the damage threshold required to break regeneration? Would it be a high slot or a low slot? How would it be balanced? Or maybe either of those are not good for balance? Maybe we should not have modules interact with the threshold at all? Discuss You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6103	Posted - 2015.04.29 08:35:00 - [2] - Quote Actually I think making it be a function of the shield regen rate would likely be the best choice. It discourages brick tanking and also makes sense that the regen threshold be tied to the regen rate. It would also make the threshold far more prevalent on Caldari and Minmatar suits due to higher shield regen rates, and less prevalent on Gallente and Amarr. As for actual numbers, well its too late for that. I'll have to sleep on it and think about it when I'm more awake. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16259	Posted - 2015.04.29 08:35:00 - [3] - Quote First, current coding has only a damage per shot thershold available, not DPS. Second, if you are basing it off of DPS, you have to account for people missing. It's a strafe shooter, missing happens, and shield regen is quite strong. Caution is advised. I would imagine a thershold of 250DPS would be absurd. Ripley: "I sexually identify as a cappuccino machine." Cat: "That's my fetish" Ripley: Steams milk seductively
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16259	Posted - 2015.04.29 08:36:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Actually I think making it be a function of the shield regen rate would likely be the best choice. It discourages brick tanking and also makes sense that the regen threshold be tied to the regen rate. It would also make the threshold far more prevalent on Caldari and Minmatar suits due to higher shield regen rates, and less prevalent on Gallente and Amarr. As for actual numbers, well its too late for that. I'll have to sleep on it and think about it when I'm more awake. I like that. Ripley: "I sexually identify as a cappuccino machine." Cat: "That's my fetish" Ripley: Steams milk seductively
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4532	Posted - 2015.04.29 08:41:00 - [5] - Quote 12 Shifted in time, your tomorrow, my today.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 389	Posted - 2015.04.29 10:30:00 - [6] - Quote I always say simply 15-25% sHP/s. Like the most you can cancel at 25% is if you go to 100+ sHP/s. That cancels smgs sadly... But lol that eHP will be super low. Also, the DPS will cut the shields pretty quickly anyways. Or.... You could just energize everything... But that's some seriously low eHP, and most likely you'll have shields exhausted before recharge. Made a high recharge ck.0 455 sHP (two complex extend) 105 sHP/s (two complex energizer, one enhanced) 26.25 sDamage threshold. (25%) Could be lower than 25% but, it's just a starting point for my idea The ADS tourney! Join today!
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9838	Posted - 2015.04.29 10:32:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: First, current coding has only a damage per shot thershold available, not DPS. Second, if you are basing it off of DPS, you have to account for people missing. It's a strafe shooter, missing happens, and shield regen is quite strong. Caution is advised. I would imagine a thershold of 250DPS would be absurd. Not so literal as straight DPS - just a round-abouts area of that damage range. Problem with basing it off damage alone though is that certain weapons get exempted because of RoF. 200 DPS on a basic assault rifle is like 15 damage per round, which is fine when you consider the Assault Rifle, doing that damage, would have to be 65m away.... but then you look over at the Assault Combat Rifle which does 16.87 damage (to shields) at it's optimal and suddenly it looks a lot less appealing. ACR would be completely ineffective at breaking the damage threshold at 65m which, I suppose is sort of the 'butter zone' by sheer coincidence. Albeit, that's a problem unique to projectile weapons because of their low shield damage so I suppose it works out. The main outlier I see here is that even at a 12 damage threshold the SMG gets gimped against shields pretty hardcore. 35m out (66% efficiency) and the SMG can't break the shield damage threshold, which pales in comparison to the Magsec SMG which extends out to 61m before it can't break the threshold. So I guess that's a -really- good buff for the Magsec SMG by consequence? You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16259	Posted - 2015.04.29 12:53:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: First, current coding has only a damage per shot thershold available, not DPS. Second, if you are basing it off of DPS, you have to account for people missing. It's a strafe shooter, missing happens, and shield regen is quite strong. Caution is advised. I would imagine a thershold of 250DPS would be absurd. Not so literal as straight DPS - just a round-abouts area of that damage range. Problem with basing it off damage alone though is that certain weapons get exempted because of RoF. 200 DPS on a basic assault rifle is like 15 damage per round, which is fine when you consider the Assault Rifle, doing that damage, would have to be 65m away.... but then you look over at the Assault Combat Rifle which does 16.87 damage (to shields) at it's optimal and suddenly it looks a lot less appealing. ACR would be completely ineffective at breaking the damage threshold at 65m which, I suppose is sort of the 'butter zone' by sheer coincidence. Albeit, that's a problem unique to projectile weapons because of their low shield damage so I suppose it works out. The main outlier I see here is that even at a 12 damage threshold the SMG gets gimped against shields pretty hardcore. 35m out (66% efficiency) and the SMG can't break the shield damage threshold, which pales in comparison to the Magsec SMG which extends out to 61m before it can't break the threshold. So I guess that's a -really- good buff for the Magsec SMG by consequence? It would certainly create a dynamic where projectile weaponry struggles in. On another note, Mass Driver can't even deal splash DPS, so that would make it completely ineffective against shields. Ripley: "I sexually identify as a cappuccino machine." Cat: "That's my fetish" Ripley: Steams milk seductively
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9846	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:11:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: First, current coding has only a damage per shot thershold available, not DPS. Second, if you are basing it off of DPS, you have to account for people missing. It's a strafe shooter, missing happens, and shield regen is quite strong. Caution is advised. I would imagine a thershold of 250DPS would be absurd. Not so literal as straight DPS - just a round-abouts area of that damage range. Problem with basing it off damage alone though is that certain weapons get exempted because of RoF. 200 DPS on a basic assault rifle is like 15 damage per round, which is fine when you consider the Assault Rifle, doing that damage, would have to be 65m away.... but then you look over at the Assault Combat Rifle which does 16.87 damage (to shields) at it's optimal and suddenly it looks a lot less appealing. ACR would be completely ineffective at breaking the damage threshold at 65m which, I suppose is sort of the 'butter zone' by sheer coincidence. Albeit, that's a problem unique to projectile weapons because of their low shield damage so I suppose it works out. The main outlier I see here is that even at a 12 damage threshold the SMG gets gimped against shields pretty hardcore. 35m out (66% efficiency) and the SMG can't break the shield damage threshold, which pales in comparison to the Magsec SMG which extends out to 61m before it can't break the threshold. So I guess that's a -really- good buff for the Magsec SMG by consequence? It would certainly create a dynamic where projectile weaponry struggles in. On another note, Mass Driver can't even deal splash DPS, so that would make it completely ineffective against shields. I just threw out DPS for an example of the bullet point which was 'what the minimum damage threshold' should be. I didn't mean to insinuate that DPS was the only option. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1012	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:12:00 - [10] - Quote shield damage threshhold is in the game already. its value is set to zero currently. all it does is determine how much damage is rquired to stop your shields from regenerating. setting the value equal to the lowest damage per shot by a weapon (ei. smg or hmg) at its OPTIMAL range would be a good start. what it means is that for most weapons, firing outside of your optimal range will mean you wont be able to break shield regen. of course raising the threshold would give you shield regen aginst some weapons even while in optimal range. a value equal to an AR would mean combat rifles would not be able to stop your shield regen even while at their optimal ranges. is that desired? idk another question is can the threshhold be set for each race differently? so caldari would have the best threshold, abd the other races would would iether have lower thresholds, or none at all.

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16260	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:17:00 - [11] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: First, current coding has only a damage per shot thershold available, not DPS. Second, if you are basing it off of DPS, you have to account for people missing. It's a strafe shooter, missing happens, and shield regen is quite strong. Caution is advised. I would imagine a thershold of 250DPS would be absurd. Not so literal as straight DPS - just a round-abouts area of that damage range. Problem with basing it off damage alone though is that certain weapons get exempted because of RoF. 200 DPS on a basic assault rifle is like 15 damage per round, which is fine when you consider the Assault Rifle, doing that damage, would have to be 65m away.... but then you look over at the Assault Combat Rifle which does 16.87 damage (to shields) at it's optimal and suddenly it looks a lot less appealing. ACR would be completely ineffective at breaking the damage threshold at 65m which, I suppose is sort of the 'butter zone' by sheer coincidence. Albeit, that's a problem unique to projectile weapons because of their low shield damage so I suppose it works out. The main outlier I see here is that even at a 12 damage threshold the SMG gets gimped against shields pretty hardcore. 35m out (66% efficiency) and the SMG can't break the shield damage threshold, which pales in comparison to the Magsec SMG which extends out to 61m before it can't break the threshold. So I guess that's a -really- good buff for the Magsec SMG by consequence? It would certainly create a dynamic where projectile weaponry struggles in. On another note, Mass Driver can't even deal splash DPS, so that would make it completely ineffective against shields. I just threw out DPS for an example of the bullet point which was 'what the minimum damage threshold' should be. I didn't mean to insinuate that DPS was the only option. Ah, I see. Ripley: "I sexually identify as a cappuccino machine." Cat: "That's my fetish" Ripley: Steams milk seductively
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16260	Posted - 2015.04.29 13:18:00 - [12] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: shield damage threshhold is in the game already. its value is set to zero currently. all it does is determine how much damage is rquired to stop your shields from regenerating. setting the value equal to the lowest damage per shot by a weapon (ei. smg or hmg) at its OPTIMAL range would be a good start. what it means is that for most weapons, firing outside of your optimal range will mean you wont be able to break shield regen. of course raising the threshold would give you shield regen aginst some weapons even while in optimal range. a value equal to an AR would mean combat rifles would not be able to stop your shield regen even while at their optimal ranges. is that desired? idk another question is can the threshhold be set for each race differently? so caldari would have the best threshold, abd the other races would would iether have lower thresholds, or none at all. All weapons should be able to stop shield regen up to their effective range. If a weapon can't stop shield regen, it's not effective. And yes, it can be set per race. It's a setting just like any other setting on a suit. Same as HP or speed. Ripley: "I sexually identify as a cappuccino machine." Cat: "That's my fetish" Ripley: Steams milk seductively
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6104	Posted - 2015.04.29 18:29:00 - [13] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: shield damage threshhold is in the game already. its value is set to zero currently. all it does is determine how much damage is rquired to stop your shields from regenerating. setting the value equal to the lowest damage per shot by a weapon (ei. smg or hmg) at its OPTIMAL range would be a good start. what it means is that for most weapons, firing outside of your optimal range will mean you wont be able to break shield regen. of course raising the threshold would give you shield regen aginst some weapons even while in optimal range. a value equal to an AR would mean combat rifles would not be able to stop your shield regen even while at their optimal ranges. is that desired? idk another question is can the threshhold be set for each race differently? so caldari would have the best threshold, abd the other races would would iether have lower thresholds, or none at all. Well you also run into an issue where lower damage per shot weapons would have a more difficult time stopping regen if threshold is on a per bullet. And it should never be "Oh well, the system should be only really effective against this race of weapon". The reason it works with vehicles is because damage from smallarms is greatly reduced so the difference in damage per bullet is effectively less pronounced. Additionally DPS is a dangerous approach to, because as Cat pointed out, that assumes optimal conditions. A quick wiggle wiggle shield suit could effectively be regenerating constantly because the incoming DPS is never sustainable high enough to break regen. Additionally some lower DPS weapons like Mass Driver would likely be unable to break shield regen, even with perfect accuracy. You might have the approach it more from a "the suit can take an amount of damage equal to f(shield_regen_rate) with a period of time equal to f(shield_recharge_delay) to break shield regen" which is more work and more core-gameplay, so likely not going to happen. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 358	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:44:00 - [14] - Quote Ok so shield damage threshold gets implemented, we putting an armor damage threshold on too? It only seems fair. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1012	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:50:00 - [15] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: shield damage threshhold is in the game already. its value is set to zero currently. all it does is determine how much damage is rquired to stop your shields from regenerating. setting the value equal to the lowest damage per shot by a weapon (ei. smg or hmg) at its OPTIMAL range would be a good start. what it means is that for most weapons, firing outside of your optimal range will mean you wont be able to break shield regen. of course raising the threshold would give you shield regen aginst some weapons even while in optimal range. a value equal to an AR would mean combat rifles would not be able to stop your shield regen even while at their optimal ranges. is that desired? idk another question is can the threshhold be set for each race differently? so caldari would have the best threshold, abd the other races would would iether have lower thresholds, or none at all. Well you also run into an issue where lower damage per shot weapons would have a more difficult time stopping regen if threshold is on a per bullet. And it should never be "Oh well, the system should be only really effective against this race of weapon". The reason it works with vehicles is because damage from smallarms is greatly reduced so the difference in damage per bullet is effectively less pronounced. Additionally DPS is a dangerous approach to, because as Cat pointed out, that assumes optimal conditions. A quick wiggle wiggle shield suit could effectively be regenerating constantly because the incoming DPS is never sustainable high enough to break regen. Additionally some lower DPS weapons like Mass Driver would likely be unable to break shield regen, even with perfect accuracy. You might have the approach it more from a "the suit can take an amount of damage equal to f(shield_regen_rate) with a period of time equal to f(shield_recharge_delay) to break shield regen" which is more work and more core-code, so likely not going to happen. What I meant is that if a smg is 20 damage per shot for example, then you set the threshold to 20 or 19 depending on how it actually works. So the only way to break shield regen is to: Not ******* snipe with a smg from 100m away. Sorry lol. But yea, really I'm looking to give caldari they place on the fields as the long range fighters. Between weapon falloff and a damage threshold, caldari wouldn't have to hug crates so much. It helps caldari more since their weapons have long optimal ranges and higher shield regen. But it doesn't give them any advantages in cqc, which is where they should be weaker Breaking shield regen should be simple: get closer.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1012	Posted - 2015.04.29 20:51:00 - [16] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Ok so shield damage threshold gets implemented, we putting an armor damage threshold on too? It only seems fair. The shield damage threshold come from following eve. Armor doesn't have one
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6104	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:20:00 - [17] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: What I meant is that if a smg is 20 damage per shot for example, then you set the threshold to 20 or 19 depending on how it actually works. So the only way to break shield regen is to: Not ***** snipe with a smg from 100m away. Sorry lol. But yea, really I'm looking to give caldari they place on the fields as the long range fighters. Between weapon falloff and a damage threshold, caldari wouldn't have to hug crates so much. It helps caldari more since their weapons have long optimal ranges and higher shield regen. But it doesn't give them any advantages in cqc, which is where they should be weaker Breaking shield regen should be simple: get closer. Well the point I'm making is that as an example, say damage per shot to break regen is 20. Assault Combat Rifle does 22 per shot Assault Rail Rifle does 42 per shot The combat rifle can barely go over its Optimal range before it stops being able to break regen. However the ARR can go well beyond its optimal to skill meet the minimum 20 damage per shot. So you end up with the ACR losing its ability to break shield regen just 2 meters past its optimal range (~64m) whereas the ARR loses its ability to break shield regen at 20 meters past its optimal (~92). These are of course the more extreme cases, but because bullet damage varies so much, the higher the damage per bullet the more forgiving the system is, because high bullet damage allows for more falloff before it falls below the minimum threshold to break regen. If all weapons had the same bullet damage this would totally work, but sadly they do not. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6104	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:23:00 - [18] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Ok so shield damage threshold gets implemented, we putting an armor damage threshold on too? It only seems fair. Armor already has a damage threshold of infinity, since it repairs while taking damage already, regardless of incoming DPS. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1056	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:35:00 - [19] - Quote Here's an outside-the-box idea for you guys: Efficiency rating. If the efficiency rating is below a certain predetermined amount, regardless of what damage is dealt, it will not stop shields from regening. I'm thinking the 10% area is perfect. Know what cannot be known.
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9858	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:59:00 - [20] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Ok so shield damage threshold gets implemented, we putting an armor damage threshold on too? It only seems fair. Not really. The entire point here is that Armor Regens passively but cannot attain the same level of regen quantity that shields have - whereas shields are basically screwed if even 1 damage is inflicted on them because they have to wait the full duration for their shield recharge delay. We could say that the -amount- of damage inflicted, based on a percentage of total HP, dynamically changes the shield recharge delay with smaller damage amounts having shorter down-times between recharging but optimally the best thing to do is to have uninterrupted shield recharge from small amounts of damage to prevent 'whittling' effects; or some dummy with a short range weapon doing miniscule amounts of damage and still causing shields to go down.. DeathwindRising wrote: What I meant is that if a smg is 20 damage per shot for example, then you set the threshold to 20 or 19 depending on how it actually works. So the only way to break shield regen is to: Not ***** snipe with a smg from 100m away. Sorry lol. But yea, really I'm looking to give caldari they place on the fields as the long range fighters. Between weapon falloff and a damage threshold, caldari wouldn't have to hug crates so much. It helps caldari more since their weapons have long optimal ranges and higher shield regen. But it doesn't give them any advantages in cqc, which is where they should be weaker Breaking shield regen should be simple: get closer. The problem with this logic is that you need to take a look at Protofits.com before making assumptions, lol. With a damage threshold of 20, the SMG is gimped even at it's optimal range of 25m because a standard SMG only does 17.85 damage to shields. That's a hell of a lot different than shooting an SMG at 100m. Even with a damage threshold of 12 though (proposed earlier) the SMG gets boned at 35m, which is 70% efficiency. No matter how you look at it, unless the damage threshold is dynamic to the weapon, the SMG is going to get screwed over. At 50% efficiency (40m) the SMG is doing just 8.7 damage per shot - which means if we bring the damage threshold that low that it effectively is meaningless to every other weapon in the game just because of how high their damage per shot is (look at the TAR, for instance). Kaeru Nayiri wrote:** Here's an outside-the-box idea for you guys: Efficiency rating. If the efficiency rating is below a certain predetermined amount, regardless of what damage is dealt, it will not stop shields from regening. I'm thinking the 10% area is perfect. It sounds good on paper but then you have to remember that the system would have to make checks between the offending player and the defending player to assume what the efficiency rating is between the two, based on what weapon it is, which will undoubtedly add to hit detection issues if it's too complex an algorithm. And this isn't even touching on the Laser Rifle which we also need to consider because of it's unique range mechanics. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1058	Posted - 2015.04.29 22:06:00 - [21] - Quote I certainly cannot claim to know how the game is coded, however I would like to point out that the check of efficiency rating between attacker and defender is already done after collision, and used for damage application. It would be a matter of using that % value to determine whether the hit deserves to shut off shield regen or not. What I mean is that there is a very good chance that it won't add extra load, only ccp can answer for certain. Know what cannot be known.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 808	Posted - 2015.04.30 01:01:00 - [22] - Quote Nice and simple. Yes. I am a Cal player so I'll use the Calmando as the example. The Calmando has an 8 SECOND regen delay. 1 bullet = 8 seconds? No thank you. I should need to take more damage if I am losing my primary lifegiver for that extended time. It can literally become death by 1000 cuts. Every single shot resets, just keep on plinking and it will eventually whittle to nothing. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 390	Posted - 2015.04.30 02:35:00 - [23] - Quote Think about it guys... If it SMG doesn't break recharge in 1 shot, look at it's dps... It's definitely going to cut into sHP considerably. And i still believe it should be a percentage of sHP/s. The ADS tourney! Join today!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1013	Posted - 2015.04.30 03:15:00 - [24] - Quote Addressing the point of low damage per shot weapons not breaking shield regen: A threshold of 20 was simply a number I pulled out of my head. It's more involved than I made it seem. Two thing that effect damage I didn't mention before are damage profiles, and damage mods. If the lowest damage per shot is a smg at 17 damage per shot then I'd say make the threshold about that. But then you factor in projectile damage profile reducing the damage to shields by 15%. So it still wouldn't break shield regen. But then we must also consider that a smg a cqc weapon, and also anti armor. Is it really unacceptable for it to struggle with breaking shield regen? What about using damage mods to help break shield regen?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1013	Posted - 2015.04.30 03:29:00 - [25] - Quote Another idea would be to allow zero shield delay while shields are above a certain percent of total shields. For example, if you have 100 hp of shields, then as long as your shields don't fall below 50 hp you would have zero shield delay. But once your shields fall under that you start getting shield delays. I kinda don't like this way as much though. Or we can combine both ideas into one... If shield hp is 50% or higher of total shield hp, then shields regen constantly. If shields hp is below 50%, then shield regen stops. We would still use shield delays like we do currently but they would only apply when shields fall below 50%. This means high alpha weapons could be used to break regen quickly. An smg would struggle but would eventually break shield regen as it can use it's dps to out damage the shield regen, get shields below 50% and then finish off the target.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6114	Posted - 2015.04.30 03:53:00 - [26] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Addressing the point of low damage per shot weapons not breaking shield regen: A threshold of 20 was simply a number I pulled out of my head. It's more involved than I made it seem. Two thing that effect damage I didn't mention before are damage profiles, and damage mods. If the lowest damage per shot is a smg at 17 damage per shot then I'd say make the threshold about that. But then you factor in projectile damage profile reducing the damage to shields by 15%. So it still wouldn't break shield regen. But then we must also consider that a smg a cqc weapon, and also anti armor. Is it really unacceptable for it to struggle with breaking shield regen? What about using damage mods to help break shield regen? You're still going to run into issues where weapons with more damage per bullet effectively have a much larger range when it comes to breaking shield regen because they can afford more falloff and subsiquently more damage lost per shot, than a smaller damage round. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 822	Posted - 2015.04.30 04:02:00 - [27] - Quote Is this technically possible though? As far as I know, you can only base shield regen on a per bullet basis. Some guns do damage by volume of fire and not damage per shot. Those weapons wouldn't be able to break shield regen at all...So you would have to be able to make it calculate DPS. Assuming CCP could even do that (and I would assume that would be a HARD thing to code) wouldn't that tax system resources significantly? I would assume it is nigh impossible to code given the code they already have... Although the issue about what weapons have the range to break shield regen (outside of optimal) will have to be factored. As well as proficiencies to shield breaking weapons. It sounds like a nightmare. Seems to me if you want to balance shields and armor without changing the roles and and strengths/weaknesses you would just need to remove the regen delay penalty from Extenders and put in support tools like armor has. Then shields will still be better at what they were designed and not as good at what armor was designed for while not being inferior to armor.
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 363	Posted - 2015.04.30 05:11:00 - [28] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Ok so shield damage threshold gets implemented, we putting an armor damage threshold on too? It only seems fair. The shield damage threshold come from following eve. Armor doesn't have one Please cite the source, I am pretty sure I would have noticed this sometime over the last 4-5 years. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 363	Posted - 2015.04.30 05:19:00 - [29] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Ok so shield damage threshold gets implemented, we putting an armor damage threshold on too? It only seems fair. Armor already has a damage threshold of infinity, since it repairs while taking damage already, regardless of incoming DPS. I think everyone who responded missed the point I was trying to make. Shields also repair whether repaired or not, given built in shield recharge. Given how quickly shields regen in comparison to armor this seems kind of unfair, favoring even one race over another for damage thresholds, not to mention the fact that even shield tankers have armor, you all (for damage threshold changes) seem to think that there is something broken. I do not believe this is the case for the above stated reasons. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 822	Posted - 2015.04.30 07:14:00 - [30] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Ok so shield damage threshold gets implemented, we putting an armor damage threshold on too? It only seems fair. Armor already has a damage threshold of infinity, since it repairs while taking damage already, regardless of incoming DPS. I think everyone who responded missed the point I was trying to make. Shields also repair whether repaired or not, given built in shield recharge. Given how quickly shields regen in comparison to armor this seems kind of unfair, favoring even one race over another for damage thresholds, not to mention the fact that even shield tankers have armor, you all (for damage threshold changes) seem to think that there is something broken. I do not believe this is the case for the above stated reasons. I see what point you are trying to make. It's just completely wrong. *I've highlighted the point that completely refutes the point you were trying to make* but you are seeming to ignore. Jecture, do you think that shields are the equal of armor? What is your opinion on the balance currently?



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